eldrjth.7384 Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 > @"MachineManXX.9746" said: > What makes you think you need to be rewarded? You bought a product, you either used, or did not use the product. What entitles you to anything more? This train of thought boggles my mind. Because you already paid for the product now given free to those who get it later with an expansion purchase. Also it rewards players who got the product at launch when it was a riskier purchase and presumably contributed to a more populated player base, so why not? I also think that having enough char slots to use all chars should be **standard** if you buy the base game in any mmo/rpg anyway. I can reverse the question in the same vain ask why should latecomers should get the base game for **free** with no restrictions? So my original suggestion stands, those who get the base game can have enough slots to use every char in game (an argument could be made for 8 slots since ravenant is part of the HoT expansion), if you buy an expansion you get 5 and if you play for free with no expansion purchases maybe you get 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 > @"eldrjth.7384" said: > > @"MachineManXX.9746" said: > > What makes you think you need to be rewarded? You bought a product, you either used, or did not use the product. What entitles you to anything more? This train of thought boggles my mind. > > Because you already paid for the product now given free to those who get it later with an expansion purchase. That's not a reason to reward someone. That's entitlement to the most extreme. You're reward was access to play since the time you purchased it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eldrjth.7384 Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > That's not a reason to reward someone. **That's entitlement to the most extreme.** You're reward was access to play since the time you purchased it. Not really. Getting access to all char slots in definitely not that. I expect that when I purchase the core game it seems cut down and money grabby the way it is atm with micro transaction to unlock the ability have access to all professions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 > @"eldrjth.7384" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > That's not a reason to reward someone. **That's entitlement to the most extreme.** You're reward was access to play since the time you purchased it. > > Not really. Getting access to all char slots in definitely not that. I expect that when I purchase the core game it seems cut down and money grabby the way it is atm with micro transaction to unlock the ability have access to all professions. > > Yes really. You don't understand what you are paying for if this is how you think. You pay for access, not ownership (Have a GOOD look at the EULA). You paid for access based on it's value to YOU at the time you made the purchase, not based on the value to someone else in the future based on their purchase. That's nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inculpatus cedo.9234 Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 Why would expansion purchase (the latest at only $23 dollars/at launch $30) grant more character slots than Core purchase (at launch $60)? They already throw in a free L80 Boost. And, as we all know, one can acquire more character slots at no real money outlay, if desired. Surely, taking 5 characters completely through Core would generate enough Gold to acquire another character slot, and then those 6 completely through HoT would generate enough Gold for 1 more character slot; take those 7 through PoF, and get 1 or 2 more slots. Especially when they are offered at a discount. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eldrjth.7384 Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > Yes really. You don't understand what you are paying for if this is how you think. You pay for access, not ownership. I dont know where youre going with the semantics. Cause its software (virtual product) you call it access instead of ownership? It would be a positive gesture to the long timer players if they get something out of buying the base game once its made free to expansion players, thats enough reason. They could hypothetically take the game to subscription model if they wanted using your 'access' logic cause they can do whatever they like (even abandon the game entirely), but youll see players complaining about if they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 It's not semantics ... you are paying for access because that's exactly what you are paying Anet for ... access to a service; you don't own anything ... Again, go read the EULA .... It's just like paying someone to wash your car; you're not giving them money to own a piece of the car wash; you're paying for access to it. If they promote a for first time buyers a discount to promote their business, do you go and demand refunds for previous washes you had there? I guess YOU might. You had more access to the game than someone that JUST bought it at a lower price. It's not that hard a concept. In fact, you got a BETTER deal than the new guy did. Wrap your head around that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eldrjth.7384 Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 Not really. They could just play another game in the same time and wait for prices to go down like I did with my HoT purchase (I took a 5 year break from the game). Anyway, I think Anet should take into account and be appreciative of how beneficial the influx of revenue was from those who bought the game at launch as opposed to later. That wouldve funded future development and the expansions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandiarie.7195 Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 You got the hat at least right for being at beta? I don't have that cool ball cap :open_mouth: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Witch of Doom.5739 Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 I felt so punished by being an early adopter of Guild Wars that I also preordered GW2 and the expansions, and have been having a great time for years and years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashen.2907 Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 I bought a Chevy some years ago, got a couple hundred thousand miles of reliable use out of it, so I should get a new one at half price right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 > @"eldrjth.7384" said: > Not really. They could just play another game in the same time and wait for prices to go down like I did with my HoT purchase (I took a 5 year break from the game). Anyway, I think Anet should take into account and be appreciative of how beneficial the influx of revenue was from those who bought the game at launch as opposed to later. That wouldve funded future development and the expansions. No, really. You are right ... they could wait ... and they would not have access to HoT from the time it was released to the time they purchased. Slice it any way you like, people that buy at initial release get more access to the service and will pay higher prices because that's the value of the service to them. Anyone that's gauging what they are willing to pay based on what a service MIGHT cost them in the future, and waiting to purchase that service, has less access to the service. it's not unreasonable they pay less for an established service. Clearly, you don't get how this works. > @"Ashen.2907" said: > I bought a Chevy some years ago, got a couple hundred thousand miles of reliable use out of it, so I should get a new one at half price right? yeah, totally ... just tell the dealership you are an entitled MMO gamer ... they will immediately understand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khisanth.2948 Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 Nothing unusual about stuff being cheaper after they have been out for a while. Are you Australian? I heard they are in a crummy situation where that is not true at least for digital sales of games. HoT is $17 from https://www.dlgamer.com/us/games/buy-guild-wars-2-heart-of-thorns-29808 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razor.6392 Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 Some horrendous analogies in this thread to be completely honest lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 Honestly, if it was legal, if someone came to my store and asked for a refund because of a good service that I've provided them for many years, just because they thought someone was getting a better deal from me, I would beat the crap out of them. If my service isn't good enough to pay the price I'm asking ... DON'T use it. Some people need to take some VERY basic level economics and etiquette classes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodstealer.5978 Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 > @"eldrjth.7384" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > Yes really. You don't understand what you are paying for if this is how you think. You pay for access, not ownership. > > I dont know where youre going with the semantics. Cause its software (virtual product) you call it access instead of ownership? It would be a positive gesture to the long timer players if they get something out of buying the base game once its made free to expansion players, thats enough reason. They could hypothetically take the game to subscription model if they wanted using your 'access' logic cause they can do whatever they like (even abandon the game entirely), but youll see players complaining about if they do. > > Wrong.. you are merely buying the access to the content.. you do not own anything except the box it might of come in.. they can turn of the lights at any time and all you will have is a box and a message say.. ERROR SITE NOT FOUND. You have purchased the right to access not to own... not semantics.. FACT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alledzebu.1037 Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > @"Alledzebu.1037" said: > > In regards to the topic at hand, i really wouldn't go as far as to say that they ''punish old players'' i can't really blame this player's stance tho, after all, **the game was advertised as a ''one time purchase'' that any further content down the line would be free** > > It took me a bit to find this but here is a [March 20, 2012 blog post from Mike O’Brien](https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/mike-obrien-on-microtransactions-in-guild-wars-2/) where he says that additional content won’t be free. > > >We believe in microtransactions because they fund ongoing development of the game in a very straightforward and open way. You, the customer, get to decide how much money you spend on the game after launch, based on how compelling it is to you. You get a complete and playable game no matter what, but we think **we can provide additional content and services that you’d be happy to pay for.** And when you pay for them, you help fund our support of Guild Wars 2 in a way that benefits all players of the game. Hi! It seems i was missleaded then, 3 years ago, when i first started on this game by the invitation of a friend and he had this very same belief: "a one time purchase and the game sustains itself with the gemstore", after HOT was announced, he couldn't tolerate it and left, but the post you are presenting me indeed leaves little space for arguing, i could argue that the line: "you get a complete game no matter what" can be a tad deceiving, however the next line you highlighted includes the word "content" so...yeah, i imagine that line was the source of the confusion for him... Thanks for clearing it up for me... If memory serves me well, there was an outrage when they announced HoT, why exactly was the reason for that then? More missleaded players like myself? Or was there something more to it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just a flesh wound.3589 Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 > @"Alledzebu.1037" said: > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > @"Alledzebu.1037" said: > > > In regards to the topic at hand, i really wouldn't go as far as to say that they ''punish old players'' i can't really blame this player's stance tho, after all, **the game was advertised as a ''one time purchase'' that any further content down the line would be free** > > > > It took me a bit to find this but here is a [March 20, 2012 blog post from Mike O’Brien](https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/mike-obrien-on-microtransactions-in-guild-wars-2/) where he says that additional content won’t be free. > > > > >We believe in microtransactions because they fund ongoing development of the game in a very straightforward and open way. You, the customer, get to decide how much money you spend on the game after launch, based on how compelling it is to you. You get a complete and playable game no matter what, but we think **we can provide additional content and services that you’d be happy to pay for.** And when you pay for them, you help fund our support of Guild Wars 2 in a way that benefits all players of the game. > > Hi! It seems i was missleaded then, 3 years ago, when i first started on this game by the invitation of a friend and he had this very same belief: "a one time purchase and the game sustains itself with the gemstore", after HOT was announced, he couldn't tolerate it and left, but the post you are presenting me indeed leaves little space for arguing, i could argue that the line: "you get a complete game no matter what" can be a tad deceiving, however the next line you highlighted includes the word "content" so...yeah, imagine that line was the source of the confusion for him... > > Thanks for clearing it up for me... > If memory serves me well, there was an outrage when they announced HoT, why exactly was the reason for that then? More missleaded players like myself? Or was there something more to it? It’s been a couple of years but the outrage, as I recall, was about the price and how new players and old players were being charged identical prices for the expansion and the core game and on top of that, to use the Revenant most people would need to spend another 800 gems to get a character slot. ANet didn’t give a discount for the game for vets but they did give a free character slot, which made most people happy enough and the protest was over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eldrjth.7384 Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > Wrong.. you are merely buying the access to the content.. you do not own anything except the box it might of come in.. they can turn of the lights at any time and all you will have is a box and a message say.. ERROR SITE NOT FOUND. > > You have purchased the right to access not to own... not semantics.. FACT! Doesnt matter really how you phrase it . Youd expect that since the game was paid for title it would also need to be paid for by other players too rather than the straight f2p micro-transaction model but at perhaps a discounted price because it becomes an old release. I really dont understand why a few posters feel it necessary to say im wrong about "something" rather than trying to clear up what the fk they actually mean. At any rate as an online only game you expect that because there are additional associated running cost with them, that charging for a copy even years down the road just makes sense. Ive been playing another mmo which went under late last year (f2p micro mmorpg) but shortly before that they sold pre-order packages for classes that had **only** been released for a short period of time (3 months before closure) so many players complained about it. On good will the console manufacturer (Micro Soft) forked out the cost on goodwill, since it was bought through there online purchasing system. The game was a multi-platform title with a PC counterpart in which most of the original player base were playing and put $1000 and 1000 of hours into but all content still required separate purchases for console (was a joke of an idea anyway). The whole business went backrupt after the failed venture into console taking down the PC side of it too (which players put $1000s into btw). Not that anyone who played it on PC wanted it con console anyway. So to summarise developers can do shoddy fking things and not necessarily look after the player base even if they fork out the cash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alledzebu.1037 Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > @"Alledzebu.1037" said: > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > @"Alledzebu.1037" said: > > > > In regards to the topic at hand, i really wouldn't go as far as to say that they ''punish old players'' i can't really blame this player's stance tho, after all, **the game was advertised as a ''one time purchase'' that any further content down the line would be free** > > > > > > It took me a bit to find this but here is a [March 20, 2012 blog post from Mike O’Brien](https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/mike-obrien-on-microtransactions-in-guild-wars-2/) where he says that additional content won’t be free. > > > > > > >We believe in microtransactions because they fund ongoing development of the game in a very straightforward and open way. You, the customer, get to decide how much money you spend on the game after launch, based on how compelling it is to you. You get a complete and playable game no matter what, but we think **we can provide additional content and services that you’d be happy to pay for.** And when you pay for them, you help fund our support of Guild Wars 2 in a way that benefits all players of the game. > > > > Hi! It seems i was missleaded then, 3 years ago, when i first started on this game by the invitation of a friend and he had this very same belief: "a one time purchase and the game sustains itself with the gemstore", after HOT was announced, he couldn't tolerate it and left, but the post you are presenting me indeed leaves little space for arguing, i could argue that the line: "you get a complete game no matter what" can be a tad deceiving, however the next line you highlighted includes the word "content" so...yeah, imagine that line was the source of the confusion for him... > > > > Thanks for clearing it up for me... > > If memory serves me well, there was an outrage when they announced HoT, why exactly was the reason for that then? More missleaded players like myself? Or was there something more to it? > > It’s been a couple of years but the outrage, as I recall, was about the price and how new players and old players were being charged identical prices for the expansion and the core game and on top of that, to use the Revenant most people would need to spend another 800 gems to get a character slot. ANet didn’t give a discount for the game for vets but they did give a free character slot, which made most people happy enough and the protest was over. I see now, i apologize for the misunderstanding... think it would be better if i erase my earlier comment as to avoid misinformation among the community, i appreciate the clarification, thank you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alledzebu.1037 Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 > @"Alledzebu.1037" said: > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > @"Alledzebu.1037" said: > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > > @"Alledzebu.1037" said: > > > > > In regards to the topic at hand, i really wouldn't go as far as to say that they ''punish old players'' i can't really blame this player's stance tho, after all, **the game was advertised as a ''one time purchase'' that any further content down the line would be free** > > > > > > > > It took me a bit to find this but here is a [March 20, 2012 blog post from Mike O’Brien](https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/mike-obrien-on-microtransactions-in-guild-wars-2/) where he says that additional content won’t be free. > > > > > > > > >We believe in microtransactions because they fund ongoing development of the game in a very straightforward and open way. You, the customer, get to decide how much money you spend on the game after launch, based on how compelling it is to you. You get a complete and playable game no matter what, but we think **we can provide additional content and services that you’d be happy to pay for.** And when you pay for them, you help fund our support of Guild Wars 2 in a way that benefits all players of the game. > > > > > > Hi! It seems i was missleaded then, 3 years ago, when i first started on this game by the invitation of a friend and he had this very same belief: "a one time purchase and the game sustains itself with the gemstore", after HOT was announced, he couldn't tolerate it and left, but the post you are presenting me indeed leaves little space for arguing, i could argue that the line: "you get a complete game no matter what" can be a tad deceiving, however the next line you highlighted includes the word "content" so...yeah, imagine that line was the source of the confusion for him... > > > > > > Thanks for clearing it up for me... > > > If memory serves me well, there was an outrage when they announced HoT, why exactly was the reason for that then? More missleaded players like myself? Or was there something more to it? > > > > It’s been a couple of years but the outrage, as I recall, was about the price and how new players and old players were being charged identical prices for the expansion and the core game and on top of that, to use the Revenant most people would need to spend another 800 gems to get a character slot. ANet didn’t give a discount for the game for vets but they did give a free character slot, which made most people happy enough and the protest was over. > > I see now, i apologize for the misunderstanding... think it would be better if i erase my earlier comment as to avoid misinformation among the community, i appreciate the clarification, thank you... Seems am unable to erase it...ooh well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tman.6349 Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said: > > Um . . . you didn't support the company. You left. You want to discuss how much money we who stayed paid into the gemstore for various items instead? I can assure you, for most of us, it's _a lot_ more than one-hundred and ten dollars. And that doesn't include the expansions. > > > > Otherwise, welcome back to the game. ;) > > As much as that's loyal and decent of you (I too have invested lots of money.. and time into the game since pre-launch) that is a choice thing that is not forced on you. Purchasing the game is the investment, the support and is what the business model is primarily designed around. The gemstore is added extra.. much needed no doubt but its optional as is purchasing expansions. That said if players choose not to buy expansions then they stand a chance of being left behind and placed at a disadvantage.. but that again is the choice put to us all, they have still supported this game by purchasing the core product. > Just because we choose to spend money in the store does not mean others have not supported the game.. so your counter is in fact moot. How much money do you imagine goes into 4 years of creating a triple a game w/o seeing any returns? Your 'investment' paid a bunch of investors. The cash shop is the business model for any such game that hopes to be around for more than 100 hrs play time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tman.6349 Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 > @"eldrjth.7384" said: > I think the players who bought the base game should have at least some lasting benefit from it compared to those who get it later. So even the extra char slots are given to those who have bought the expansions only? seems to be the case after further reading of the thread: if you buy HoT you get everything that is included in the base game. That imo is not the right move. What if you got the base game+all expansions you get all 9 character slots but if you didnt get the base game you only get 5? that to me seems a decent enough difference to reward the early players and not drastically affect the late comers. There are infinitely 'lasting benefits'. Birthdays, AP(account currency bonuses, free gold, free gems, exclusive skins), or (WHOA!!) actually enjoying getting to play the game. O.o There seems to be some delusion here that Anet owes any more than this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deimos.4263 Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 Whoa whoa whoa. If they're gonna start giving out discounts or extras based on how much money we've forked over for various things....Anet, you owe me some kind of super unicorn mount skin that shoots bees out of its mouth. And I get to ride it in WvW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menadena.7482 Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 > @"eldrjth.7384" said: > > @"MachineManXX.9746" said: > > What makes you think you need to be rewarded? You bought a product, you either used, or did not use the product. What entitles you to anything more? This train of thought boggles my mind. > > Because you already paid for the product now given free to those who get it later with an expansion purchase. Also it rewards players who got the product at launch when it was a riskier purchase and presumably contributed to a more populated player base, so why not? I also think that having enough char slots to use all chars should be **standard** if you buy the base game in any mmo/rpg anyway. I can reverse the question in the same vain ask why should latecomers should get the base game for **free** with no restrictions? So my original suggestion stands, those who get the base game can have enough slots to use every char in game (an argument could be made for 8 slots since ravenant is part of the HoT expansion), if you buy an expansion you get 5 and if you play for free with no expansion purchases maybe you get 2. > > How can you get the game for free with no restrictions? You might want to look what people are getting for free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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