Bring Back 5 Man Ranked Que - Needs To Happen At This Point - Solo/Duo Failed

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

Played my last match for this season earlier today. Let me give a quick summary of my experience this season:

* Started season in 1600 range.

* Didn't play many matches until last couple weeks of season, just 1 per 3 days to stop decay. This was mainly because the previous season was already riddled with a large amount of win trading to the point that my rating would fluctuate between 1700 and 1450. I wasn't really that interested in playing the leaderboards anymore.

* Noticed it was more difficult to achieve/keep my usual desired rating this season. Achieving/holding 1550ish seemed to be as difficult as achieving/holding 1650ish in previous seasons. Was it due to lack of population? Was it due to win trading becoming even more prevalent? I don't know, but there was definitely obvious win trading in just about every other game that I played this season.

* Ended up struggling to maintain even bottom plat this season and ended at like 1504? Something like that.

 

Seriously though, the frequency of matches qued that involve win trading has officially reached the point of "too much". Not even a single player argues this fact.

 

[Ithilwen.1529]

I perceive that the plea for team queue is elitist.

 

When the Solo Arena and the Team Arena were merged, years ago, it was because there simply weren't enough players to support quick queues in teams. ANET chose to more-or-less fill the holes with the solo players. We soloists became cannon fodder. (Though that was likely unintended.)

 

The bitterness from that experience and the seasons of "competitive" matchmaking that encouraged streaks, ( and the smurfing that was permitted to go with it, ) has pretty much *permanently* stained the reputation of team queue. **When I hear "let's have pre mades" my mind interprets: "Let me set up a situation where I can exclude anyone I don't like and take advantage of solo players to pad my win ratio."**

[Matiu.5703]

> @"Ithilwen.1529" said:

> I perceive that the plea for team queue is elitist.

>

> When the Solo Arena and the Team Arena were merged, years ago, it was because there simply weren't enough players to support quick queues in teams. ANET chose to more-or-less fill the holes with the solo players. We soloists became cannon fodder. (Though that was likely unintended.)

>

> The bitterness from that experience and the seasons of "competitive" matchmaking that encouraged streaks, ( and the smurfing that was permitted to go with it, ) has pretty much *permanently* stained the reputation of team queue. **When I hear "let's have pre mades" my mind interprets: "Let me set up a situation where I can exclude anyone I don't like and take advantage of solo players to pad my win ratio."**

 

Actually no one is saying that a premade has to play against 5 noobs solo to ezwin.

We are just asking Anet to find a way for us to play with friends decently, which is impossible at the moment.

[MithranArkanere.8957]

You are right. Solo/duo failed. It allowed players to abuse it to bring two of professions that have no business of appearing more than once.

 

Solution? Solo queue only, prevent profession stack.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

> @"Ithilwen.1529" said:

> I perceive that the plea for team queue is elitist.

>

> When the Solo Arena and the Team Arena were merged, years ago, it was because there simply weren't enough players to support quick queues in teams. ANET chose to more-or-less fill the holes with the solo players. We soloists became cannon fodder. (Though that was likely unintended.)

>

> The bitterness from that experience and the seasons of "competitive" matchmaking that encouraged streaks, ( and the smurfing that was permitted to go with it, ) has pretty much *permanently* stained the reputation of team queue. **When I hear "let's have pre mades" my mind interprets: "Let me set up a situation where I can exclude anyone I don't like and take advantage of solo players to pad my win ratio."**

 

Did you read the OP statement? That statement is true about how you are still against 5 man premades. The only realistic way that anyone, including you, can prevent yourself from being cheated by 5 man teams, win traders or bad algorithm activity, is by being able to form your own 5 man team.

 

[plushiesoda.8150]

Deleted in protest of anet leaving support ticket #7495730 without answer since October 10th 2019. It's sad how if this were a money-related issue you'd have answered within a couple of hours. At this point I'm not even mad, but disappointed by the mediocrity displayed by your community managers.

[flog.3485]

> @"plushiesoda.8150" said:

> I'm starting to hope that they bring back team queue... just to see the same pro-team-queuing-advocates complain about having to spend half an hour for a match to start, just to be trampled 500-10 by a superior team.

 

That already exists. It is called AT’s.

[Honor.1982]

playing with your friends in day to day pvp is banned cause rank 1k players are upset

[Ithilwen.1529]

> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> > @"Ithilwen.1529" said:

> > I perceive that the plea for team queue is elitist.

> >

> > When the Solo Arena and the Team Arena were merged, years ago, it was because there simply weren't enough players to support quick queues in teams. ANET chose to more-or-less fill the holes with the solo players. We soloists became cannon fodder. (Though that was likely unintended.)

> >

> > The bitterness from that experience and the seasons of "competitive" matchmaking that encouraged streaks, ( and the smurfing that was permitted to go with it, ) has pretty much *permanently* stained the reputation of team queue. **When I hear "let's have pre mades" my mind interprets: "Let me set up a situation where I can exclude anyone I don't like and take advantage of solo players to pad my win ratio."**

>

> Did you read the OP statement? That statement is true about how you are still against 5 man premades. The only realistic way that anyone, including you, can prevent yourself from being cheated by 5 man teams, win traders or bad algorithm activity, is by being able to form your own 5 man team.

>

 

I consider your argument fallacious in multiple ways, but I'll entertain it for the moment.

 

Presumably, you are referring to queue syncing when you mention "invisible" 5 player teams. **If that is the case, the solution is not to allow pre-mades with all their associated problems. The solution is to prevent queue syncing.** I have been told that playing this way is a bannable offense in GW1 and considered cheating. The same policy should hold in GW2.

 

[choovanski.5462]

> @"Ithilwen.1529" said:

> I perceive that the plea for team queue is elitist.

> **When I hear "let's have pre mades" my mind interprets: "Let me set up a situation where I can exclude anyone I don't like and take advantage of solo players to pad my win ratio."**

 

_guess you're unable to imagine having friends then..._

 

 

 

well... I'll see if can explain a bit about friends. if you have a friend you like to spend time with them. if you both like to do the same activity it's pretty common for you and your friends to do this activity together.

 

so if you and your friends like to play video games you are probably going to want to play games together. so you want to find a multiplayer game where you can play together, ideally as a team of friends.

 

guild wars 2 used to be a game, just like DotA or TF2 where you could play the competitive gamemode with your friends. it's not anymore.

 

I hope you can understand why people with friends don't like this change.

 

-++++++-

 

I'm ignoring ATs because that's a limited amount of matches a day, and is a set time. it is in no way a substitute for party play in ranked. I can explain this further if need be, but I shouldn't have to.

[Ithilwen.1529]

> @"choovanski.5462" said:

> > @"Ithilwen.1529" said:

> > I perceive that the plea for team queue is elitist.

> > **When I hear "let's have pre mades" my mind interprets: "Let me set up a situation where I can exclude anyone I don't like and take advantage of solo players to pad my win ratio."**

>

> _guess you're unable to imagine having friends then..._

>

>

>

> well... I'll see if can explain a bit about friends. if you have a friend you like to spend time with them. if you both like to do the same activity it's pretty common for you and your friends to do this activity together.

>

> so if you and your friends like to play video games you are probably going to want to play games together. so you want to find a multiplayer game where you can play together, ideally as a team of friends.

>

> guild wars 2 used to be a game, just like DotA or TF2 where you could play the competitive gamemode with your friends. it's not anymore.

>

> I hope you can understand why people with friends don't like this change.

>

> -++++++-

>

> I'm ignoring ATs because that's a limited amount of matches a day, and is a set time. it is in no way a substitute for party play in ranked. I can explain this further if need be, but I shouldn't have to.

 

Here's the problem with that reasoning; If one group get's to play together as friends, someone else has to take it in the shorts. There aren't enough players to make a full team queue work. Ergo, you'd have pre-made vs. solo. **We've seen historically that situations of premade vs solo are negative for the game.**

 

**One person's rights end when they stomp on another's.** While I'm 100% for friends playing together as guilds, I don't support offering up other players for their pleasure.

 

I'd also argue that at least part of the motivation for teaming up, ( in many cases, ) is to exploit others for easy wins.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

> @"Honor.1982" said:

> playing with your friends in day to day pvp is banned cause rank 1k players are upset

 

Indeed

[shadowpass.4236]

> @"Ithilwen.1529" said:

> > @"choovanski.5462" said:

> > > @"Ithilwen.1529" said:

> > > I perceive that the plea for team queue is elitist.

> > > **When I hear "let's have pre mades" my mind interprets: "Let me set up a situation where I can exclude anyone I don't like and take advantage of solo players to pad my win ratio."**

> >

> > _guess you're unable to imagine having friends then..._

> >

> >

> >

> > well... I'll see if can explain a bit about friends. if you have a friend you like to spend time with them. if you both like to do the same activity it's pretty common for you and your friends to do this activity together.

> >

> > so if you and your friends like to play video games you are probably going to want to play games together. so you want to find a multiplayer game where you can play together, ideally as a team of friends.

> >

> > guild wars 2 used to be a game, just like DotA or TF2 where you could play the competitive gamemode with your friends. it's not anymore.

> >

> > I hope you can understand why people with friends don't like this change.

> >

> > -++++++-

> >

> > I'm ignoring ATs because that's a limited amount of matches a day, and is a set time. it is in no way a substitute for party play in ranked. I can explain this further if need be, but I shouldn't have to.

>

> Here's the problem with that reasoning; If one group get's to play together as friends, someone else has to take it in the shorts. There aren't enough players to make a full team queue work. Ergo, you'd have pre-made vs. solo. **We've seen historically that situations of premade vs solo are negative for the game.**

>

> **One person's rights end when they stomp on another's.** While I'm 100% for friends playing together as guilds, I don't support offering up other players for their pleasure.

>

> I'd also argue that at least part of the motivation for teaming up, ( in many cases, ) is to exploit others for easy wins.

 

Alright I've always struggled to understand anything you say. I can't for the life of me see how someone could make so little sense.

 

How in the hell do you equate the ability to play with friends as stomping on people's rights? Like... LOL

[Ithilwen.1529]

> @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > @"Ithilwen.1529" said:

> > > @"choovanski.5462" said:

> > > > @"Ithilwen.1529" said:

> > > > I perceive that the plea for team queue is elitist.

> > > > **When I hear "let's have pre mades" my mind interprets: "Let me set up a situation where I can exclude anyone I don't like and take advantage of solo players to pad my win ratio."**

> > >

> > > _guess you're unable to imagine having friends then..._

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > well... I'll see if can explain a bit about friends. if you have a friend you like to spend time with them. if you both like to do the same activity it's pretty common for you and your friends to do this activity together.

> > >

> > > so if you and your friends like to play video games you are probably going to want to play games together. so you want to find a multiplayer game where you can play together, ideally as a team of friends.

> > >

> > > guild wars 2 used to be a game, just like DotA or TF2 where you could play the competitive gamemode with your friends. it's not anymore.

> > >

> > > I hope you can understand why people with friends don't like this change.

> > >

> > > -++++++-

> > >

> > > I'm ignoring ATs because that's a limited amount of matches a day, and is a set time. it is in no way a substitute for party play in ranked. I can explain this further if need be, but I shouldn't have to.

> >

> > Here's the problem with that reasoning; If one group get's to play together as friends, someone else has to take it in the shorts. There aren't enough players to make a full team queue work. Ergo, you'd have pre-made vs. solo. **We've seen historically that situations of premade vs solo are negative for the game.**

> >

> > **One person's rights end when they stomp on another's.** While I'm 100% for friends playing together as guilds, I don't support offering up other players for their pleasure.

> >

> > I'd also argue that at least part of the motivation for teaming up, ( in many cases, ) is to exploit others for easy wins.

>

> Alright I've always struggled to understand anything you say. I can't for the life of me see how someone could make so little sense.

>

> How in the hell do you equate the ability to play with friends as stomping on people's rights? Like... LOL

 

I point out that allowing 5 player teams virtually requires that those teams go against solos. **There simply aren't enough active players, in my opinion, to support a separate team queue.** The notion of mixing and matching trios and duos would confuse the matchmaking even further.

 

*That being the case, providing a team queue would require more-or-less offering up solos as cannon fodder to fill out the rosters.* This stomps on the rights of solo players, for the entertainment of team players. We have seen the same issue in greater and lesser degrees ever since Team Arena and Solo Arena were merged.

 

I consider the notion that GW2 is a "team" game a myth. It's true that Since the HoT expansion, group content has been pushed. The fact that teams exist, does not establish that the game is designed, intended or even optimal for organized teams. The existence of teams simply allows more players to play together.

[Ithilwen.1529]

> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> > @"Honor.1982" said:

> > playing with your friends in day to day pvp is banned cause rank 1k players are upset

>

> Indeed

 

You are perfectly capable of playing with your friends in day-to-day PvP. That's what unranked is for.

 

[rank eleven monk.9502]

> @"Honor.1982" said:

> playing with your friends in day to day pvp is banned cause rank 1k players are upset

It's not banned in pvp, only in ranked. Also, you are implying only low tier players play soloq ('are upset'). Why?

[Mortifera.6138]

your logic is flawed; all i HAD TO do was read the title and knew...

[Abazigal.3679]

> @"flog.3485" said:

> > @"plushiesoda.8150" said:

> > I'm starting to hope that they bring back team queue... just to see the same pro-team-queuing-advocates complain about having to spend half an hour for a match to start, just to be trampled 500-10 by a superior team.

>

> That already exists. It is called AT’s.

 

That's a bit different. AT's are frustrating, even with a pug plat team you will get rolled 500-50 in 3rd round or quarterfinals, so i can't imagine for bronze/silver teams, most of the time everyone quits when you lose since you cannot go on.

Team queue would give you the opportunity to play and get more opponents that should be similar to your rank.

 

 

[Matiu.5703]

> @"Ithilwen.1529" said:

> > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> > > @"Honor.1982" said:

> > > playing with your friends in day to day pvp is banned cause rank 1k players are upset

> >

> > Indeed

>

> You are perfectly capable of playing with your friends in day-to-day PvP. That's what unranked is for.

>

 

Actually no, unranked is not a solution.

You complain about 5q v solo/duo q in ranked and people should enjoy 500 0 someone that is approaching pvp for the first time, like unranked is meant to be?

 

What about the rights? You care only about your rights (ranked solo player) it seems. About those of people approaching pvp or wanting to play with friends? Naah it is not a problem, the important thing is that you can play your perfectly fair and working ranked solo q.

 

And like said many times before, AT is not a viable solution either.

[bLind.6278]

I am perfectly fine with full groups not being in ranked. I know a lot of people who earned legendary back in s1-4 that didn't deserve it based purely on being carried in groups.

 

I would be okay with a full 5v5 league, however, but people wanting full groups just so they can pubstomp is not something I'll support.

[choovanski.5462]

true to form my post w queue fixes was reported, i suspect this is because there was no argument against it that could be mounted, or mayhap i was just crass. but i’ll dredge up the important part from mod’s dungeon. because it absolutely destroys the ‘wahhh solo vs premade’ argument.

 

> you can actually code a mixed queue to ensure good results. here's how:

 

>. only allow solo, duo, trio and 5 man to queue

>. only allow solo and duo to be matched up

>. only allow duo, trio and 5 man to be matched up

 

>if there are pop issues (ie quéue time) then add 'duo duo solo' as being eligible to face the 5 man and the 'duo trio' combo. you can also add ‘trio solo solo’ as being eligible to fight ‘duo duo solo’ & ‘trio duo’. the idea is no never have a solo in a game versus a five man unless they are accompanied by two duos if you are compromising for queue times, which i suspect may have to happen. ideally you want to go with the bullet points, but anet’s severe mismanagement of this gamemode has destroyed the population so i would suspect a compromise, hence my inclusion of one.

 

>you can make a comment about divisions, but matchmaker is already doing silvers and plats in games so it's not like it's going to get worse. as @"Trevor Boyer.6524" points out, being able to queue as a team means wintrading can be avoided. i hear people are encountering wintraders almost every second game in plat, due to things like the popular reddit guide.

 

but hey, whatever y’all. game is bleeding players so keep on arguing for a frustrating solo environment rife with wintrading. i’m sure everyone playing right now is recommending guild wars 2 to their friends so they can all NOT PLAY IT TOGETHER.

 

have fun yall, im to busy separating heads from shoulders with my nodachi backed up by all my pals.

 

ciao compadre ;)

 

[flog.3485]

> @"Abazigal.3679" said:

> > @"flog.3485" said:

> > > @"plushiesoda.8150" said:

> > > I'm starting to hope that they bring back team queue... just to see the same pro-team-queuing-advocates complain about having to spend half an hour for a match to start, just to be trampled 500-10 by a superior team.

> >

> > That already exists. It is called AT’s.

>

> That's a bit different. AT's are frustrating, even with a pug plat team you will get rolled 500-50 in 3rd round or quarterfinals, so i can't imagine for bronze/silver teams, most of the time everyone quits when you lose since you cannot go on.

> Team queue would give you the opportunity to play and get more opponents that should be similar to your rank.

>

>

 

No it wouldn’t. There is not enough people to support a 5 man team Q. (Even guild wars with much more content focused on PvP had its 5 man queues stripped at some point).

 

We already know that they are going to increase the occurrence of matches within AT’s with Swiss style. That is best you can hope for in terms of 5v5 so far.

 

Frankly, if I were in charge, I would make unranked a 5v5 only queues for players to learn the game and it’s specifics in full team effort because I find it odd and unrealistic to do that in ranked with a duo/solo queue; and limit the easy going casual experience of PvP to hotjoin arenas.

[Exedore.6320]

> @"bLind.6278" said:

> I am perfectly fine with full groups not being in ranked. I know a lot of people who earned legendary back in s1-4 that didn't deserve it based purely on being carried in groups.

Legendary in S1-S4 meant absolutely nothing on anyone because rank was based on grinding and not skill.

 

 

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

I qued an AT around 2:00 am eastern time zone last night. There were 14 teams that joined. That's 70 people out of the maybe 100 to 200 people actively participating in spvp at the time. That's a large margin of the active player base. I've noticed lately that the average number of teams que'ing for ATs is rising.

 

 

 

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

> @"choovanski.5462" said:

> true to form my post w queue fixes was reported, i suspect this is because there was no argument against it that could be mounted, or mayhap i was just crass. but i’ll dredge up the important part from mod’s dungeon. because it absolutely destroys the ‘wahhh solo vs premade’ argument.

>

> > you can actually code a mixed queue to ensure good results. here's how:

>

> >. only allow solo, duo, trio and 5 man to queue

> >. only allow solo and duo to be matched up

> >. only allow duo, trio and 5 man to be matched up

>

> >if there are pop issues (ie quéue time) then add 'duo duo solo' as being eligible to face the 5 man and the 'duo trio' combo. you can also add ‘trio solo solo’ as being eligible to fight ‘duo duo solo’ & ‘trio duo’. the idea is no never have a solo in a game versus a five man unless they are accompanied by two duos if you are compromising for queue times, which i suspect may have to happen. ideally you want to go with the bullet points, but anet’s severe mismanagement of this gamemode has destroyed the population so i would suspect a compromise, hence my inclusion of one.

>

> >you can make a comment about divisions, but matchmaker is already doing silvers and plats in games so it's not like it's going to get worse. as @"Trevor Boyer.6524" points out, being able to queue as a team means wintrading can be avoided. i hear people are encountering wintraders almost every second game in plat, due to things like the popular reddit guide.

>

> but hey, whatever y’all. game is bleeding players so keep on arguing for a frustrating solo environment rife with wintrading. i’m sure everyone playing right now is recommending guild wars 2 to their friends so they can all NOT PLAY IT TOGETHER.

>

> have fun yall, im to busy separating heads from shoulders with my nodachi backed up by all my pals.

>

> ciao compadre ;)

>

 

Defending solo que at this point is like some diabetic kid who wants to keep eating sugar.