Deep sea dragon speculation

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

> @"Oglaf.1074" said:

> Sylvari are actually immune because they are already "corrupted" in the sense they were breed from the start to be dragon minions of Modremorth.

>

> Or rather they _were_ as long as Modremorth drew breath.

 

Except that's not the case. That's common misconception that people believe despite there being no support for it, and statements against it existing.

 

In Season 2 we're told:

 

Pale Tree: There are those who reject **my protection.** It leaves them vulnerable in ways they cannot imagine, in ways they never were before. **I shield you** as best I can and will for as long as I can.

Sylvari PC: You're talking about dragon corruption. We've been immune to it.

Pale Tree: Yes. In the past, my children have been immune. But Mordremoth's corruption is powerful, and just as Zhaitan created the undead from so many creatures, so Mordremoth's corruption can change you.

 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rallying_Call#Dialogue

 

This being before the sylvari reveal, the Pale Tree tells half truths. But a half truth that Ogden already knew as well:

 

Ogden Stonehealer: You refer to Scarlet and Aerin. Similar symptoms. Yes.

Ogden Stonehealer: I'm no expert on your kind. But your people's concept of nightmare and Dream is simple.

Ogden Stonehealer: Too black and white, too unsophisticated to explain the changes affecting some of you.

Ogden Stonehealer: **The Pale Tree is said to protect you from the corruption of the other dragons.** They both rejected her, no?

Ogden Stonehealer: It makes sense that sylvari would be vulnerable to Mordremoth, a plant-based being like yourselves.

 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hidden_Arcana#At_the_Durmand_Priory

 

Then with Heart of Thorns promotions, we got a fuller story as we knew the other half of the truth:

 

The Elder Dragon can implant thoughts in its creations—thoughts they may even believe to be their own—and only a combination of immense willpower and **the protection of the Pale Tree** can prevent Mordremoth from taking control. Sylvari receive calls to action in the form of the Wyld Hunt—or the Dark Hunt, for Nightmare Courtiers—and *these compulsions act as an access point for Mordremoth’s influence.*

 

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/points-of-interest-episode-18-summary/

 

And with Heart of Thorns, we got a show of that "influence" which is dramatically different from dragon corruption:

 

Canach: Brother? Hello?

Mordrem Guard Punisher: Help me! Please! I can't tell what (was happening)...

Canach: What is it? What is it like, giving in?

Mordrem Guard Punisher: It was a relief. Such a relief. I didn't want to fight it anymore. But then...I did things.

Canach: Of your own will?

Mordrem Guard Punisher: I— I don't know. At the time, I knew it was wrong— I couldn't stop! Forgive me! I wanted to obey!

Mordrem Guard Punisher: My strings were tugged and my body acted while I watched. A passenger to the dragon's breath, its whispers.

Canach: Do you hear it still, feel its pull?

Mordrem Guard Punisher: I do!

Canach: And what does it want? What's its plan?

Mordrem Guard Punisher: It—it wants—it wants you...to die!

: Canach!

Mordrem Guard Punisher: You will succumb! No one is strong enough to stand against Mordremoth!

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Buried_Insight#Dialogue

 

Canach: Sound strategy, Commander. Turn the tables and attack the dragon the same way it's been attacking us? Brilliant.

Canach: You don't need a translator to understand that—the dragon doesn't like this idea.

Trahearne: Yes...strike at the dragon's mind through the Dream. It can work. And my connection will provide the access you need.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hearts_and_Minds#Entering_the_lair

 

TL;DR

 

The Dream protects the sylvari from dragon corruption; they gain this connection to the Dream via the Pale Tree. Sylvari have been unwittingly forsaking this protection (the Soundless - including Scarlet and Aerin) and risk themselves to dragon corruption.

 

Mordremoth, being connected to the Dream, is capable of circumventing that protection by utilizing the Dream's methods of sending Wyld Hunts and Dark Hunts to whisper into the sylvari's minds. This is not actual dragon corruption, but is closer to having someone constantly telling you what to do - except Mordremoth can [make it sound](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Prisoners_of_the_Dragon#Saving_the_Smiths) like [the sylvari's own thoughts](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Dead_End:_A_Study_in_Scarlet#Holo-recordings) on top of making the thoughts obviously his own voice.

 

There is a slight contradiction in all of this - in that by all rights, Aerin and Scarlet shouldn't have been hearing Mordremoth's voice but rather become succeptible to actual dragon corruption. Perhaps Scarlet was (we do see oddities in his face upon her death) but Aerin never had the exposure until after he went mad from Mordremoth's voice. But it was said in an obscure interview that the Soundless never fully disconnect from the Dream, and a strong enough force can reconnect them despite their meditations.

 

> @"Oglaf.1074" said:

> We know that ol' Primo ate some of his "essence" when he died and can now create "leafy" Destroyers. If that means that Sylvari are no longer under the "protection" of Modremorth and can be taken over by the live Elder Dragons that are left.. who knows?

 

There is literally nothing that suggests this to hold true. And all of the above actually would argue that in order for *any* Elder Dragon to do what Mordremoth did, they'd need the domain of mind - not plants. Which, supposedly, Kralkatorrik gained along with death, while Primordus and Jormag both gained plant and death.

[Amanda Whitemoon.6173]

what if they use chtulhu as influence for the deepseadragon, tentacle horrors, madness.

[Zola.6197]

> @"Amanda Whitemoon.6173" said:

> what if they use chtulhu as influence for the deepseadragon, tentacle horrors, madness.

 

That seems very plausible! I know we’ve heard that DSD already turns water into tentacled horrors, and DSD is super mysterious. Lovecraftian makes sense.

 

I’ve always thought of the elder dragons as “elder gods” in that sense. Primordial forces beyond our understanding.

[Zola.6197]

Would be cool if DSD was like the Garden of Eyes in Kubo and the Two Strings.

[Oglaf.1074]

> @"Svennis.3852" said:

> > @"Amanda Whitemoon.6173" said:

> > what if they use chtulhu as influence for the deepseadragon, tentacle horrors, madness.

>

> That seems very plausible! I know we’ve heard that DSD already turns water into tentacled horrors, and DSD is super mysterious. Lovecraftian makes sense.

>

 

That would definitely be preferable. I mean, of course having him as a gigantic sea serpent like Midgårdsormen in Norse legend would be cool but a tad predictable. If this deep sea Elder “Dragon” actually looked almost nothing like an actual dragon in the traditional sense, but more of a Lovecraftian horror that would be a nice way to both explore another awesome theme and avoiding the sea serpent cliché.

 

 

 

[Amanda Whitemoon.6173]

> @"Oglaf.1074" said:

> > @"Svennis.3852" said:

> > > @"Amanda Whitemoon.6173" said:

> > > what if they use chtulhu as influence for the deepseadragon, tentacle horrors, madness.

> >

> > That seems very plausible! I know we’ve heard that DSD already turns water into tentacled horrors, and DSD is super mysterious. Lovecraftian makes sense.

> >

>

> That would definitely be preferable. I mean, of course having him as a gigantic sea serpent like Midgårdsormen in Norse legend would be cool but a tad predictable. If this deep sea Elder “Dragon” actually looked almost nothing like an actual dragon in the traditional sense, but more of a Lovecraftian horror that would be a nice way to both explore another awesome theme and avoiding the sea serpent cliché.

>

>

>

 

not only that, but seems alot of people dislike the underwater combat, i personally dont (dependant on character a bit), but using a lovecraftian makes it easily possible for anet to add the horrors to land

[Tyson.5160]

I’m more curious on why the Inquest have so many red holograms of windriders in Rata Primus and the associated labs. In the story instances they have many canisters with branded in them and then they have all these red holograms of windriders for no apparent reason. Is this reusing an asset I forgot about?

[Zola.6197]

> @"Amanda Whitemoon.6173" said:

> > @"Oglaf.1074" said:

> > > @"Svennis.3852" said:

> > > > @"Amanda Whitemoon.6173" said:

> > > > what if they use chtulhu as influence for the deepseadragon, tentacle horrors, madness.

> > >

> > > That seems very plausible! I know we’ve heard that DSD already turns water into tentacled horrors, and DSD is super mysterious. Lovecraftian makes sense.

> > >

> >

> > That would definitely be preferable. I mean, of course having him as a gigantic sea serpent like Midgårdsormen in Norse legend would be cool but a tad predictable. If this deep sea Elder “Dragon” actually looked almost nothing like an actual dragon in the traditional sense, but more of a Lovecraftian horror that would be a nice way to both explore another awesome theme and avoiding the sea serpent cliché.

> >

> >

> >

>

> not only that, but seems alot of people dislike the underwater combat, i personally dont (dependant on character a bit), but using a lovecraftian makes it easily possible for anet to add the horrors to land

 

I really do hope they revamp underwater combat for a mostly underwater expansion starring Bubbles... but I very much doubt that. Underwater content is the forgotten step child Anet has neglected for years. x)

 

So few games have UW combat and gameplay that I’ve akways found it so cool. I LOVE exploring underwater environments.

 

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

> @"Tyson.5160" said:

> I’m more curious on why the Inquest have so many red holograms of windriders in Rata Primus and the associated labs. In the story instances they have many canisters with branded in them and then they have all these red holograms of windriders for no apparent reason. Is this reusing an asset I forgot about?

 

Yeah, rider holograms (the originals are purple, not sure if they appear red due to lighting or if it's a recoloring) is used in Soren Draa's event of attracting riders as well as in Lornar's Pass as part of "shipments stolen by grawl" (those ones were intended to be used as 3d diagrams for educational purposes).

 

Why the Inquest has such, idk.

[Tyson.5160]

In regards to DSD, we could see this dragon begin to corrupt living beings on land due to the presence of water in living beings bodies. I also remember a weapon which was strange a tentacle like uhhh scherlite I think the name was. We could also start seeing Largos, Kraft, Quaggan and Karla start being infected into DSD minions.

 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sclerite_weapon_skins