mortrialus.3062 Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 > @"Malediktus.9250" said: > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > @"Malediktus.9250" said: > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > Only if: > > > > > > > > Mesmers have their dps shaved off 90% and their boons nerfed and their mobility nerfed > > > > Thieves can keep their mobility but have their dps and ccs nerfed by 99.999% > > > > Guardians take massive nerfs to dps and sustain. > > > > Eles take massive nerfs of dps in spvp to recompense of gutting of scourge with the nerfs > > > > Same for warriors and rangers and revs. > > > > > > > > > > I agree everything needs to be nerfed somehow. There are way too many OP abilities in this game and the time to kill is too fast. > > > > > > > @"NotoriousNaru.1705" said: > > > > Scourge dmg and boon rip has long been nerfed. They have massive tells on everything they do and they don't have the dmg to 100-0 anyone unlike other specs in the meta right now. This thread is ignorant and only appeals to those either new to the game or to pvp. If you're complaining about multiple scourges in a game of ranked or unranked, then thats another issue. On top of that, the next balance update includes several CD nerfs to scourge to further help people like OP to counter play something already so easily counterplayable. > > > The tells are worthless and do nothing but giving you eye cancer and headaches. Especially in WvW where you suddenly have 20 scourges fighting at once. > > > > Oh so you'd rather necros be free kills and unable to kill anyone? > > > > They are there because people are too dumb to not stand in the aoes. > > They are there because they are too powerful on these tiny AOE circles you need to cap and defend The nodes are your reward for winning the team fight. If you're running onto the node and deliberately into scourge sewage because "OMG I need the node right now" that's 100% your problem. Kill them at range then cap the point at your leisure. So what if they cap it in the meantime? They'll get about 5 points before you kill them. Which will grant you 5 points, and you can cap the node at your leisure and since they're respawning chances are you'll gain more points from capping it after you kill them. And even if scourge wasn't a thing, running right onto the node is still deliberately putting all of the enemy's corsshairs on your head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azure The Heartless.3261 Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 > @"Axl.8924" said: > The problem is:Some people are making false claims like:SCourge has no hardcounters, when it does.I'm not even sure if some of hte ones making these claims here are bad players. I'd just like to quote this because this is also true. Is scourge poor design because it counters melee almost in its entirety? Absolutely, especially when conquest is centered around point capture. Is it insurmountable? Not in the slightest. Anything with a range interrupt or that is ranged based will absolutely ruin it. That is the majority of thieves, most power mesmers, most power rangers and what have you. They've been dialed back a reasonable amount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghos.1326 Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 > @"Rap Tiger.1257" said: > Scourge is easy to kill when attacking from a distance, if you die to scourge you may have two things wrong, you do not know how to play with the class or you are a born player to stay only in the PVE This is semi true. However, do remember that there is terrain and other obstructions available on most maps. Take all things into account. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inoki.6048 Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 > @"Axl.8924" said: > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said: > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > The thing that makes> @"Malediktus.9250" said: > > > > It is not niche, epidemic is one of the most powerful skills in the game making many encounters much easier than probably intended. Especially if you stack necros the dmg goes through the roof. > > > > > > The thing that makes it niche, is as i said:Its good versus lots of enemies, and it won't secure a chance to bring someone.Also:Other classes have strong aoes with better support, so why bring a necro when you can bring a ele who can go weavrer for over 36k? or a mirage? Mirage has a lot of dps and probably a lot of support.Even chrono is still really high on the list. > > > > > > Realistically speaking, it can be taken, but if you have the option of choosing lets say a casette player or a brand new sleek ipod, you are going to choose the ipod.Performance in1 or more jobs is a big deal, and scourge is supposed to be a major support class, but it got nerfed in support. > > > > > > Take renegade for an example:Its good in large fights and small fights now, same as zeal and oh guess who as well:Weavers big surprise. > > > > > > Even core engi has more dps than necro, thats how sad it is.on snow crows i think its core, 500 dps more than necros, and they are the lowest class after us.Every class is thousands, and at least holosmith is in the 33-34k range, so at least its new profession is succeeding. > > > > > > Scourge on the other hand is like 29.224 and reaper is like 29.504. > > > > > > Some of the people here who wanna get scourge deleted because sound like a buncha haters. > > > > > > Yeah scourge is problematic, but by no means is it impossible to win in spvp, and it certainly isn't overpowered in pve. > > > > > > The fact that necros are expected to be taken only for a ability that works in some levels with lots of adds is preposterous, and all because of spvp. > > > > > > Necros are the lowest dps class in game, and i just showed proof > > > > > > https://snowcrows.com/benchmarks/ > > > > > > Every class has a high role except necros.Its one thing for 1 spec or 2 to have low dps, but a entire class? That is not ok. > > > Anyone who argues against this, is a biased class hater of necros, and won't listen to reason. > > > > > > Also:Herald needs fixed in some way or another, so they aren't just taken for that one boss you kite, and are actually wanted.I don't know how because i lack the knowledge, but changes are needed for herald. > > [https://youtu.be/_xlL1QPim5c](https://youtu.be/_xlL1QPim5c "https://youtu.be/_xlL1QPim5c") > > > > The current Vale Guardian world speed kill uses 6 Scourges. Your point is invalid. > > > So? that proves nothing.You could easily take 6 mirages and probably do the same, or 6 weavers, and it would probably end faster due to much higher dps. > > > > 8 mirages killing cairn. > > Showing that 6 necros can win as scourge shows its possible, but doesn't show what problems it would have in SINGLE AND DOUBLE NUMBERS!! > > watch out, something's too effective in PVE, nerf inc ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axl.8924 Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 Inoki condi engineer is at 30500 and condi engi is above power daredevil.Don't know if some nerf happened, but condi reaper is lower now.Still:If you take all the numbers into account, all necros are lower than everyone in everything. I'm sick of the anti necro parade going on, and sick of crybabies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lexan.5930 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 An air based elite spec isnt a terrible thing. Have you seen what Elle's can do with aoes on multiple targets in a single location? On that note the fact that ele can hit the same target multiple times with the same aoe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bLind.6278 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 > @"Rap Tiger.1257" said: > Scourge is easy to kill when attacking from a distance, if you die to scourge you may have two things wrong, you do not know how to play with the class or you are a born player to stay only in the PVE Or you play a full melee class. Warrior is virtually hardcountered by any scourge that knows how to save condi strip/corrupts for resistance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warlord.9074 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > Scourges are mostly fine. Mostly. They've never been as problematic as the player base believes them to be. Firebrand are way too good of a support class and is the more problematic aspect of Scourge's overpowered nature. > > The real problem with Scourge is the instant nature to their shade abilities. All scourge shade abilities need to have clear anticipation frames added to their shade skills so they can be read, predicted, and avoided by skilled players. A clear windup before the punch. And certainly not just having hideous red circles everywhere. This would also solve another problematic aspect of scourge which is their extremely high skill floor. If players actually had to think about how to set up their attacks and not just dump a shade and instantly pop their F2-5 skills and still see a good amount of success I think I'd be okay with Scourge at the moment. > > And Enfeebling Blood should probably get looked at. > And might shouldn't be corrupted into weakness. you mean low skill floor. Not high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axl.8924 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 > @"bLind.6278" said: > > @"Rap Tiger.1257" said: > > Scourge is easy to kill when attacking from a distance, if you die to scourge you may have two things wrong, you do not know how to play with the class or you are a born player to stay only in the PVE > > Or you play a full melee class. Warrior is virtually hardcountered by any scourge that knows how to save condi strip/corrupts for resistance. And necros are hardcountered by ranged such as rangers and anyone able to get with really long range and have projectiles.Do you think its fair we have low chance? no, you use warrior and range necros with it and improve warriors, give necros a better projectile reflect that is more effective vs projectiles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortrialus.3062 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 > @"Warlord.9074" said: > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > Scourges are mostly fine. Mostly. They've never been as problematic as the player base believes them to be. Firebrand are way too good of a support class and is the more problematic aspect of Scourge's overpowered nature. > > > > The real problem with Scourge is the instant nature to their shade abilities. All scourge shade abilities need to have clear anticipation frames added to their shade skills so they can be read, predicted, and avoided by skilled players. A clear windup before the punch. And certainly not just having hideous red circles everywhere. This would also solve another problematic aspect of scourge which is their extremely high skill floor. If players actually had to think about how to set up their attacks and not just dump a shade and instantly pop their F2-5 skills and still see a good amount of success I think I'd be okay with Scourge at the moment. > > > > And Enfeebling Blood should probably get looked at. > > And might shouldn't be corrupted into weakness. > > you mean low skill floor. Not high. Is it low or is it high? High skill floor makes sense since floor and ceiling represent the potential range of effectiveness and if the floor is high then it means the potentially bad scourges is lessened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigmoid.7082 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > @"Warlord.9074" said: > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > Scourges are mostly fine. Mostly. They've never been as problematic as the player base believes them to be. Firebrand are way too good of a support class and is the more problematic aspect of Scourge's overpowered nature. > > > > > > The real problem with Scourge is the instant nature to their shade abilities. All scourge shade abilities need to have clear anticipation frames added to their shade skills so they can be read, predicted, and avoided by skilled players. A clear windup before the punch. And certainly not just having hideous red circles everywhere. This would also solve another problematic aspect of scourge which is their extremely high skill floor. If players actually had to think about how to set up their attacks and not just dump a shade and instantly pop their F2-5 skills and still see a good amount of success I think I'd be okay with Scourge at the moment. > > > > > > And Enfeebling Blood should probably get looked at. > > > And might shouldn't be corrupted into weakness. > > > > you mean low skill floor. Not high. > > Is it low or is it high? High skill floor makes sense since floor and ceiling represent the potential range of effectiveness and if the floor is high then it means the potentially bad scourges is lessened. It's the other way around. A low skill floor means something is easy to play and be effective with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witcher.3197 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 > @"intox.6347" said: > > @"Rym.1469" said: > > > @"Malediktus.9250" said: > > > > @"Chilli.2976" said: > > > > all classes should be deleted, then we have balance ;). > > > > > > I would be pretty ok with going back to pre HoT for sure. delete all those elite specs from PvP and WvW > > > > Oh yes, 3-4 D/D eles per team rolling open palms across the keyboard, those were the good times indeed. > > > > yeah exactly, always hear crap like "good old times..." but from what i remember in .... > spvp = d/d eles, turret engies, bunker guards, hambow warriors, minion tank necros > wvw = half of zerg staff guards, hammer shout wars, cele eles+veil slave and other plebs. > > It was not better, it just changing . > > Scourge is problem in lower pvp... coz its noob friendly skill spamer. Good in group play in wvw coz of aoe. Crap in pve. > I loved necro.... in hot reaper was nice addition.... scourge is abomination... easy pick for noobs to feel elite. Things weren't perfect but at least they weren't this bad.. at the very least the pace of combat was still intact and visual clutter was 10 times lower, now it's just a mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aza.2105 Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 > @"witcher.3197" said: > Things weren't perfect but at least they weren't this bad.. at the very least the pace of combat was still intact and visual clutter was 10 times lower, now it's just a mess. As time went on Anet continuously lowered the skill floor in pvp by introducing more clutter and skill spam. I'm willing to bet that most scourge players don't even know that their skills do. You really don't have to, you just hit buttons and it works. Design wise, scourge is probably the worst pvp design ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malediktus.9250 Posted March 22, 2018 Author Share Posted March 22, 2018 > @"Aza.2105" said: > > @"witcher.3197" said: > > > Things weren't perfect but at least they weren't this bad.. at the very least the pace of combat was still intact and visual clutter was 10 times lower, now it's just a mess. > > As time went on Anet continuously lowered the skill floor in pvp by introducing more clutter and skill spam. I'm willing to bet that most scourge players don't even know that their skills do. You really don't have to, you just hit buttons and it works. Design wise, scourge is probably the worst pvp design ever. > Well put, everything is spammy today. Often you die so fast that you dont even know what happened. It makes raid challenge motes feel slow paced. Just as the visual clutter in team fights is far worse than visual clutter in raids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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