Jace al Thor.6745 Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 > @"Deax.1572" said: > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > > @"Deax.1572" said: > > > Honestly Scourge could be left as it is if other classes had better access to condi cleanses. > > > Bring back HGH 1 condi clear.... > > > As of right now engi is pretty much forced to run inventions... before the engi had to run alchemy, but at least with the option to drop inventions for something else. The 50% damage reduction of aim assisted rocket made me chuckle. > > > Pre HoT it was alchemy and inventions. During HoT it was alchemy and inventions. When PoF first launched we finally could use something other than alchemy and inventions + elite and still somewhat survive the condi bursts, but now after the previous patch we're once again back into the Inventions and alchemy line. > > > Not only will my elexirs not condi cleanse anymore, but also scourge will convert all the boons. If i see one coming and i don't have elexir C i have to rocket boot away and change my utilities before i'd even consider to fight them. > > > It's not that i don't want to fight them, i do, but there's literally next to no counterplay. > > > So much for build diversity :cry: > > > > > > > The current necro nerfs will do nothing to Scourge really. The issue is that the changes aren’t nerfing the right thing. Sand Savant needs a complete over haul to be changed from something that covers 90% of a point and makes shades essentially spam everything, watch stuff die. The trait needs to be something more along the lines of when using shades you and surrending allies gain 5s of stability and 500 barrier. Something like that. That changes the current play style and with smaller shades has to be played with thought. > > All i ask is that engi gets their condi removals spread out a bit instead of them being shoehorned. HGH did just that, but i agree with your point regarding scourge. Well that’s not engi specific though. Ranger has to spec WS and NM, Engi with HGH, thief is sol unless dd, etc. but I agree they need to do something @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" y’all really need to remove concentration and expertise stats in PvP/WvW so that you can balance conditions and boonspam. So long as we can take condition duration stats you won’t be able to get them balanced. You need high intensity/low duration and low intensity/high duration conditions but so long as condition duration is available you can’t have either as they’ll all be long duration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagrant.7206 Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 > @"Deax.1572" said: > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > > @"Deax.1572" said: > > > Honestly Scourge could be left as it is if other classes had better access to condi cleanses. > > > Bring back HGH 1 condi clear.... > > > As of right now engi is pretty much forced to run inventions... before the engi had to run alchemy, but at least with the option to drop inventions for something else. The 50% damage reduction of aim assisted rocket made me chuckle. > > > Pre HoT it was alchemy and inventions. During HoT it was alchemy and inventions. When PoF first launched we finally could use something other than alchemy and inventions + elite and still somewhat survive the condi bursts, but now after the previous patch we're once again back into the Inventions and alchemy line. > > > Not only will my elexirs not condi cleanse anymore, but also scourge will convert all the boons. If i see one coming and i don't have elexir C i have to rocket boot away and change my utilities before i'd even consider to fight them. > > > It's not that i don't want to fight them, i do, but there's literally next to no counterplay. > > > So much for build diversity :cry: > > > > > > > The current necro nerfs will do nothing to Scourge really. The issue is that the changes aren’t nerfing the right thing. Sand Savant needs a complete over haul to be changed from something that covers 90% of a point and makes shades essentially spam everything, watch stuff die. The trait needs to be something more along the lines of when using shades you and surrending allies gain 5s of stability and 500 barrier. Something like that. That changes the current play style and with smaller shades has to be played with thought. > > All i ask is that engi gets their condi removals spread out a bit instead of them being shoehorned. HGH did just that, but i agree with your point regarding scourge. Common misconception that HGH was responsible for the condi removal of elixirs. That was actually [alchemical tinctures](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Alchemical_Tinctures "alchemical tinctures"). And yeah. I'm not sure why they nerfed the relatively balanced condi cleanse of alchemical tinctures (seriously, was anybody complaining about it?) and replaced it with the horribly unbalanced [anticorrosion plating](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Anticorrosion_Plating "anticorrosion plating") that makes core engineer weaker, but scrapper and holo stronger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alehin.3746 Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 > @"Agatha Luna Lee.3150" said: > holy great, why you need to nerf soothing bastion? GG ANET, MY FREAKING NERFNANT IS NERFED AGAIN > @"Agatha Luna Lee.3150" said: > IF YOU CHANGE THE SOOTHING BASTION TO 90SECONDS, I WILL UNINSTALL GW2 AND PLAY ESO. this is just too funny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deax.1572 Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 > @"Vagrant.7206" said: > > @"Deax.1572" said: > > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > > > @"Deax.1572" said: > > > > Honestly Scourge could be left as it is if other classes had better access to condi cleanses. > > > > Bring back HGH 1 condi clear.... > > > > As of right now engi is pretty much forced to run inventions... before the engi had to run alchemy, but at least with the option to drop inventions for something else. The 50% damage reduction of aim assisted rocket made me chuckle. > > > > Pre HoT it was alchemy and inventions. During HoT it was alchemy and inventions. When PoF first launched we finally could use something other than alchemy and inventions + elite and still somewhat survive the condi bursts, but now after the previous patch we're once again back into the Inventions and alchemy line. > > > > Not only will my elexirs not condi cleanse anymore, but also scourge will convert all the boons. If i see one coming and i don't have elexir C i have to rocket boot away and change my utilities before i'd even consider to fight them. > > > > It's not that i don't want to fight them, i do, but there's literally next to no counterplay. > > > > So much for build diversity :cry: > > > > > > > > > > The current necro nerfs will do nothing to Scourge really. The issue is that the changes aren’t nerfing the right thing. Sand Savant needs a complete over haul to be changed from something that covers 90% of a point and makes shades essentially spam everything, watch stuff die. The trait needs to be something more along the lines of when using shades you and surrending allies gain 5s of stability and 500 barrier. Something like that. That changes the current play style and with smaller shades has to be played with thought. > > > > All i ask is that engi gets their condi removals spread out a bit instead of them being shoehorned. HGH did just that, but i agree with your point regarding scourge. > > Common misconception that HGH was responsible for the condi removal of elixirs. That was actually [alchemical tinctures](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Alchemical_Tinctures "alchemical tinctures"). > > And yeah. I'm not sure why they nerfed the relatively balanced condi cleanse of alchemical tinctures (seriously, was anybody complaining about it?) and replaced it with the horribly unbalanced [anticorrosion plating](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Anticorrosion_Plating "anticorrosion plating") that makes core engineer weaker, but scrapper and holo stronger. I can't name how many times i've had just a few condis on me that desperately needed to be removed and could have been removed if HGH still did remove just 1 condi. I'm aware of alchemical tinctures and honestly i rarely notice it because it just gets triggered by random crap like 1 vulnerability and 1 poison stack, but i think adding the 1 condi removal back would be fair. In wvw i'm runing elexirs/rocket boots build and the only reliable condi removal is healing turret (2 condis removed). It's extremely hard to fight scourges and i usually have to let my teammates engage with resistance so that scourge would use his skills on them and leaves himself more open to attack after, i win fights against condi mesmers by just bursting them down and destroying their clones before they can do anything. Burn guards can stack burning faster than i can remove them, again HGH would be useful. > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > @"Deax.1572" said: > > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > > > @"Deax.1572" said: > > > > Honestly Scourge could be left as it is if other classes had better access to condi cleanses. > > > > Bring back HGH 1 condi clear.... > > > > As of right now engi is pretty much forced to run inventions... before the engi had to run alchemy, but at least with the option to drop inventions for something else. The 50% damage reduction of aim assisted rocket made me chuckle. > > > > Pre HoT it was alchemy and inventions. During HoT it was alchemy and inventions. When PoF first launched we finally could use something other than alchemy and inventions + elite and still somewhat survive the condi bursts, but now after the previous patch we're once again back into the Inventions and alchemy line. > > > > Not only will my elexirs not condi cleanse anymore, but also scourge will convert all the boons. If i see one coming and i don't have elexir C i have to rocket boot away and change my utilities before i'd even consider to fight them. > > > > It's not that i don't want to fight them, i do, but there's literally next to no counterplay. > > > > So much for build diversity :cry: > > > > > > > > > > The current necro nerfs will do nothing to Scourge really. The issue is that the changes aren’t nerfing the right thing. Sand Savant needs a complete over haul to be changed from something that covers 90% of a point and makes shades essentially spam everything, watch stuff die. The trait needs to be something more along the lines of when using shades you and surrending allies gain 5s of stability and 500 barrier. Something like that. That changes the current play style and with smaller shades has to be played with thought. > > > > All i ask is that engi gets their condi removals spread out a bit instead of them being shoehorned. HGH did just that, but i agree with your point regarding scourge. > > Well that’s not engi specific though. > Ranger has to spec WS and NM, Engi with HGH, thief is sol unless dd, etc. but I agree they need to do something > > @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" y’all really need to remove concentration and expertise stats in PvP/WvW so that you can balance conditions and boonspam. So long as we can take condition duration stats you won’t be able to get them balanced. You need high intensity/low duration and low intensity/high duration conditions but so long as condition duration is available you can’t have either as they’ll all be long duration. It's enough that Ranger specs into wilderness survival to have condi clear. Nature magic is optional. I typically run WS/BM/SB with quickening zephyr (2 condis removed), lightning reflexes (2 condis removed), heal can be either Troll urgent (2 condis removed) or We heal as one, but Soften the Fall trait gets triggered when healing skill is used which removed another 2 condis. Engi doesn't have that, you have to run Inventions to have decent condi removal if you don't you wont have anything other than healing turret for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
messiah.1908 Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 > @"Deax.1572" said: > > @"Vagrant.7206" said: > > > @"Deax.1572" said: > > > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > > > > @"Deax.1572" said: > > > > > Honestly Scourge could be left as it is if other classes had better access to condi cleanses. > > > > > Bring back HGH 1 condi clear.... > > > > > As of right now engi is pretty much forced to run inventions... before the engi had to run alchemy, but at least with the option to drop inventions for something else. The 50% damage reduction of aim assisted rocket made me chuckle. > > > > > Pre HoT it was alchemy and inventions. During HoT it was alchemy and inventions. When PoF first launched we finally could use something other than alchemy and inventions + elite and still somewhat survive the condi bursts, but now after the previous patch we're once again back into the Inventions and alchemy line. > > > > > Not only will my elexirs not condi cleanse anymore, but also scourge will convert all the boons. If i see one coming and i don't have elexir C i have to rocket boot away and change my utilities before i'd even consider to fight them. > > > > > It's not that i don't want to fight them, i do, but there's literally next to no counterplay. > > > > > So much for build diversity :cry: > > > > > > > > > > > > > The current necro nerfs will do nothing to Scourge really. The issue is that the changes aren’t nerfing the right thing. Sand Savant needs a complete over haul to be changed from something that covers 90% of a point and makes shades essentially spam everything, watch stuff die. The trait needs to be something more along the lines of when using shades you and surrending allies gain 5s of stability and 500 barrier. Something like that. That changes the current play style and with smaller shades has to be played with thought. > > > > > > All i ask is that engi gets their condi removals spread out a bit instead of them being shoehorned. HGH did just that, but i agree with your point regarding scourge. > > > > Common misconception that HGH was responsible for the condi removal of elixirs. That was actually [alchemical tinctures](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Alchemical_Tinctures "alchemical tinctures"). > > > > And yeah. I'm not sure why they nerfed the relatively balanced condi cleanse of alchemical tinctures (seriously, was anybody complaining about it?) and replaced it with the horribly unbalanced [anticorrosion plating](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Anticorrosion_Plating "anticorrosion plating") that makes core engineer weaker, but scrapper and holo stronger. > > I can't name how many times i've had just a few condis on me that desperately needed to be removed and could have been removed if HGH still did remove just 1 condi. I'm aware of alchemical tinctures and honestly i rarely notice it because it just gets triggered by random crap like 1 vulnerability and 1 poison stack, but i think adding the 1 condi removal back would be fair. In wvw i'm runing elexirs/rocket boots build and the only reliable condi removal is healing turret (2 condis removed). It's extremely hard to fight scourges and i usually have to let my teammates engage with resistance so that scourge would use his skills on them and leaves himself more open to attack after, i win fights against condi mesmers by just bursting them down and destroying their clones before they can do anything. Burn guards can stack burning faster than i can remove them, again HGH would be useful. > > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > > @"Deax.1572" said: > > > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > > > > @"Deax.1572" said: > > > > > Honestly Scourge could be left as it is if other classes had better access to condi cleanses. > > > > > Bring back HGH 1 condi clear.... > > > > > As of right now engi is pretty much forced to run inventions... before the engi had to run alchemy, but at least with the option to drop inventions for something else. The 50% damage reduction of aim assisted rocket made me chuckle. > > > > > Pre HoT it was alchemy and inventions. During HoT it was alchemy and inventions. When PoF first launched we finally could use something other than alchemy and inventions + elite and still somewhat survive the condi bursts, but now after the previous patch we're once again back into the Inventions and alchemy line. > > > > > Not only will my elexirs not condi cleanse anymore, but also scourge will convert all the boons. If i see one coming and i don't have elexir C i have to rocket boot away and change my utilities before i'd even consider to fight them. > > > > > It's not that i don't want to fight them, i do, but there's literally next to no counterplay. > > > > > So much for build diversity :cry: > > > > > > > > > > > > > The current necro nerfs will do nothing to Scourge really. The issue is that the changes aren’t nerfing the right thing. Sand Savant needs a complete over haul to be changed from something that covers 90% of a point and makes shades essentially spam everything, watch stuff die. The trait needs to be something more along the lines of when using shades you and surrending allies gain 5s of stability and 500 barrier. Something like that. That changes the current play style and with smaller shades has to be played with thought. > > > > > > All i ask is that engi gets their condi removals spread out a bit instead of them being shoehorned. HGH did just that, but i agree with your point regarding scourge. > > > > Well that’s not engi specific though. > > Ranger has to spec WS and NM, Engi with HGH, thief is sol unless dd, etc. but I agree they need to do something > > > > @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" y’all really need to remove concentration and expertise stats in PvP/WvW so that you can balance conditions and boonspam. So long as we can take condition duration stats you won’t be able to get them balanced. You need high intensity/low duration and low intensity/high duration conditions but so long as condition duration is available you can’t have either as they’ll all be long duration. > > It's enough that Ranger specs into wilderness survival to have condi clear. Nature magic is optional. I typically run WS/BM/SB with quickening zephyr (2 condis removed), lightning reflexes (2 condis removed), heal can be either Troll urgent (2 condis removed) or We heal as one, but Soften the Fall trait gets triggered when healing skill is used which removed another 2 condis. > Engi doesn't have that, you have to run Inventions to have decent condi removal if you don't you wont have anything other than healing turret for that. oh stop complain. revenant has almost to no condi cleanse abilities.... :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deax.1572 Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 > @"messiah.1908" said: > > @"Deax.1572" said: > > > @"Vagrant.7206" said: > > > > @"Deax.1572" said: > > > > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > > > > > @"Deax.1572" said: > > > > > > Honestly Scourge could be left as it is if other classes had better access to condi cleanses. > > > > > > Bring back HGH 1 condi clear.... > > > > > > As of right now engi is pretty much forced to run inventions... before the engi had to run alchemy, but at least with the option to drop inventions for something else. The 50% damage reduction of aim assisted rocket made me chuckle. > > > > > > Pre HoT it was alchemy and inventions. During HoT it was alchemy and inventions. When PoF first launched we finally could use something other than alchemy and inventions + elite and still somewhat survive the condi bursts, but now after the previous patch we're once again back into the Inventions and alchemy line. > > > > > > Not only will my elexirs not condi cleanse anymore, but also scourge will convert all the boons. If i see one coming and i don't have elexir C i have to rocket boot away and change my utilities before i'd even consider to fight them. > > > > > > It's not that i don't want to fight them, i do, but there's literally next to no counterplay. > > > > > > So much for build diversity :cry: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The current necro nerfs will do nothing to Scourge really. The issue is that the changes aren’t nerfing the right thing. Sand Savant needs a complete over haul to be changed from something that covers 90% of a point and makes shades essentially spam everything, watch stuff die. The trait needs to be something more along the lines of when using shades you and surrending allies gain 5s of stability and 500 barrier. Something like that. That changes the current play style and with smaller shades has to be played with thought. > > > > > > > > All i ask is that engi gets their condi removals spread out a bit instead of them being shoehorned. HGH did just that, but i agree with your point regarding scourge. > > > > > > Common misconception that HGH was responsible for the condi removal of elixirs. That was actually [alchemical tinctures](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Alchemical_Tinctures "alchemical tinctures"). > > > > > > And yeah. I'm not sure why they nerfed the relatively balanced condi cleanse of alchemical tinctures (seriously, was anybody complaining about it?) and replaced it with the horribly unbalanced [anticorrosion plating](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Anticorrosion_Plating "anticorrosion plating") that makes core engineer weaker, but scrapper and holo stronger. > > > > I can't name how many times i've had just a few condis on me that desperately needed to be removed and could have been removed if HGH still did remove just 1 condi. I'm aware of alchemical tinctures and honestly i rarely notice it because it just gets triggered by random crap like 1 vulnerability and 1 poison stack, but i think adding the 1 condi removal back would be fair. In wvw i'm runing elexirs/rocket boots build and the only reliable condi removal is healing turret (2 condis removed). It's extremely hard to fight scourges and i usually have to let my teammates engage with resistance so that scourge would use his skills on them and leaves himself more open to attack after, i win fights against condi mesmers by just bursting them down and destroying their clones before they can do anything. Burn guards can stack burning faster than i can remove them, again HGH would be useful. > > > > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > > > @"Deax.1572" said: > > > > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > > > > > @"Deax.1572" said: > > > > > > Honestly Scourge could be left as it is if other classes had better access to condi cleanses. > > > > > > Bring back HGH 1 condi clear.... > > > > > > As of right now engi is pretty much forced to run inventions... before the engi had to run alchemy, but at least with the option to drop inventions for something else. The 50% damage reduction of aim assisted rocket made me chuckle. > > > > > > Pre HoT it was alchemy and inventions. During HoT it was alchemy and inventions. When PoF first launched we finally could use something other than alchemy and inventions + elite and still somewhat survive the condi bursts, but now after the previous patch we're once again back into the Inventions and alchemy line. > > > > > > Not only will my elexirs not condi cleanse anymore, but also scourge will convert all the boons. If i see one coming and i don't have elexir C i have to rocket boot away and change my utilities before i'd even consider to fight them. > > > > > > It's not that i don't want to fight them, i do, but there's literally next to no counterplay. > > > > > > So much for build diversity :cry: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The current necro nerfs will do nothing to Scourge really. The issue is that the changes aren’t nerfing the right thing. Sand Savant needs a complete over haul to be changed from something that covers 90% of a point and makes shades essentially spam everything, watch stuff die. The trait needs to be something more along the lines of when using shades you and surrending allies gain 5s of stability and 500 barrier. Something like that. That changes the current play style and with smaller shades has to be played with thought. > > > > > > > > All i ask is that engi gets their condi removals spread out a bit instead of them being shoehorned. HGH did just that, but i agree with your point regarding scourge. > > > > > > Well that’s not engi specific though. > > > Ranger has to spec WS and NM, Engi with HGH, thief is sol unless dd, etc. but I agree they need to do something > > > > > > @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" y’all really need to remove concentration and expertise stats in PvP/WvW so that you can balance conditions and boonspam. So long as we can take condition duration stats you won’t be able to get them balanced. You need high intensity/low duration and low intensity/high duration conditions but so long as condition duration is available you can’t have either as they’ll all be long duration. > > > > It's enough that Ranger specs into wilderness survival to have condi clear. Nature magic is optional. I typically run WS/BM/SB with quickening zephyr (2 condis removed), lightning reflexes (2 condis removed), heal can be either Troll urgent (2 condis removed) or We heal as one, but Soften the Fall trait gets triggered when healing skill is used which removed another 2 condis. > > Engi doesn't have that, you have to run Inventions to have decent condi removal if you don't you wont have anything other than healing turret for that. > > oh stop complain. revenant has almost to no condi cleanse abilities.... :D I get that written text has no intonation and thus it's hard to decipher it, but i assure you that the problem lies with your perception not what i wrote. Rev condi removal should be addressed. I'm not a rev player so i can't comment on that. I mainly play medium armor classes so i'm most familiar with them and their abilities so i comment and address those in particular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unmei.1678 Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 While im not sure if its been addressed, since i don't really feel like sifting through 5 pages of back and forth right now, i have only one key point id like to hear feedback on: First off, i main thief. i have 3.4k hours on thief, i am by no means an expert, or "good", but i do enjoy theory crafting builds greatly, and i always come back to one problem: **_The Trickery Traitline is in need of serious tuning because of its initiative gain potential through passive minor traits, while providing major utility through trait choices, as well as being a major offender/component of "instant cast Combos"_** in almost any build used in PvP at the moment, it either falls apart is or severely crippled when you don't use the Trickery Tree. its one of the few sources of extra initiative available to thieves on demand, all the other sources of either active or passive initiative gain (except for Infiltrator's signet) are looking at getting a nerf this round of balance, further solidifying it as a "must". Trickery originally seemed to be a completely optional part of thief until the critical strike nerf that removed the ability to regain initiative on crit, while i agree that it was a needed nerf, this only left trickery as the main source of initiative gain since HoT. After HoT, we saw the rise of the Daredevil D/P build that used the trickery trait-line to great advantage in being able to deliver a daze through stability via Slight of Hand and the unique boon-steal priority of Bountiful Theft(for those un-aware Bountiful theft prioritizes Aegis, Stability, and protection first, and the boon-steal occurs after Damage from Mug, allowing you to proc defensive stability generation traits from say basilisk venom, or a well timed heart-seeker through a lightning field, and instantly steal the boon.), as well as excessive endurance gain via Endurance Thief in daredevil. Now that Daredevil's heavy evasion has been toned down, we're again seeing it appear in Core S/D Builds... supplementing upper-hand's initiative gain, allowing for the almost absurd amount of evades the build is becoming know for, while granting it a very easy to ramp up to, 15% damage modifier from Lead Attacks. Since PoF and the introduction of the Deadeye, we again see Trickery appear across a wide range of "Spam 3" builds, simply because it allows you to spam more, allows you to immediately counter a panic heal Via slight of Hand and Bountiful Theft, while giving you access to Quickness without having to slot the utility Haste. In fact, trickery shows up in almost every single Thief build widely used, except those where you are expected to have additional support such as in fractals or raids, meaning you can devote all of your efforts to dealing damage, and don't have to leave some wiggle room for defensive use. While my examples have all been for power builds, Trickery also offers a huge amount of options for condition based builds through trait choices, and simply enabling more spamming of skills that apply conditions. Now Thief has always been a very Risk/Reward class, but i feel Trickery allows for too much reward for less risk, and is probably the worst offender in the stated goals of reducing the effect of passives, and instant cast abilities, since there can be in most cases no way to evade combos provided just from stealing when traited, and it provides bonuses to the core mechanic of how a thief actually uses skills. Again, not being the best thief player in the world, i'm un-sure how drastically some of my points fall off in "Higher level" play; which is why i'm voicing my concerns from a Theory crafting perspective rather than a play one. Its possible that changing trickery to not make thief feel inherently clunky would require a complete class overhaul as was done with mesmer. Anyways, feedback on these points would be helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simonoly.4352 Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 > @"Gaile Gray.6029" said: > ## Mesmer > - Illusionary Riposte: Increased the cooldown from 12 seconds to 15 seconds in PvP and WvW > - Illusionary Counter: Reduced the cooldown from 8 seconds to 6 seconds in PvP and WvW Is there a particular reason why one of these skills is having its cooldown increased and the other decreased bearing in mind they are identical in their block and evade mechanics? Just curious. If you trait Sceptre you'll be able to get a one-attack block + 0.5 second evade every 5 seconds. That's pretty fierce. It's already at ~6 seconds whilst traited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace al Thor.6745 Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 > @"Simonoly.4352" said: > > @"Gaile Gray.6029" said: > > ## Mesmer > > - Illusionary Riposte: Increased the cooldown from 12 seconds to 15 seconds in PvP and WvW > > - Illusionary Counter: Reduced the cooldown from 8 seconds to 6 seconds in PvP and WvW > > Is there a particular reason why one of these skills is having its cooldown increased and the other decreased bearing in mind they are identical in their block and evade mechanics? Just curious. > > If you trait Sceptre you'll be able to get a one-attack block + 0.5 second evade every 5 seconds. That's pretty fierce. It's already at ~6 seconds whilst traited. Because the confusion nerf wrecked scepter so they’re trying to make people use it? Idk only reason I can think of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OriOri.8724 Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 > @"Simonoly.4352" said: > > @"Gaile Gray.6029" said: > > ## Mesmer > > - Illusionary Riposte: Increased the cooldown from 12 seconds to 15 seconds in PvP and WvW > > - Illusionary Counter: Reduced the cooldown from 8 seconds to 6 seconds in PvP and WvW > > Is there a particular reason why one of these skills is having its cooldown increased and the other decreased bearing in mind they are identical in their block and evade mechanics? Just curious. > > If you trait Sceptre you'll be able to get a one-attack block + 0.5 second evade every 5 seconds. That's pretty fierce. It's already at ~6 seconds whilst traited. Sword offhand also comes with a strong phantasm, scepter does not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tzozef.9841 Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 ""Plague Signet: Increased the cooldown from 30 seconds to 40 seconds in PvP and WvW"" NO! This will nerf Reaper and CORE Necromancer, this is one of our only few ways to stun break and cleanse conditions. With a class that already has no access to efficient stability and condi cleanse this is stupid. The only reason this is getting nerfed is because of Scourge, SO NERF THE SCOURGE BUILD, not the entire profession. Tells me Anet isn't thinking at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saerni.2584 Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 > @"Unmei.1678" said: > While im not sure if its been addressed, since i don't really feel like sifting through 5 pages of back and forth right now, i have only one key point id like to hear feedback on: > First off, i main thief. i have 3.4k hours on thief, i am by no means an expert, or "good", but i do enjoy theory crafting builds greatly, and i always come back to one problem: > > **_The Trickery Traitline is in need of serious tuning because of its initiative gain potential through passive minor traits, while providing major utility through trait choices, as well as being a major offender/component of "instant cast Combos"_** > > in almost any build used in PvP at the moment, it either falls apart is or severely crippled when you don't use the Trickery Tree. its one of the few sources of extra initiative available to thieves on demand, all the other sources of either active or passive initiative gain (except for Infiltrator's signet) are looking at getting a nerf this round of balance, further solidifying it as a "must". > > Trickery originally seemed to be a completely optional part of thief until the critical strike nerf that removed the ability to regain initiative on crit, while i agree that it was a needed nerf, this only left trickery as the main source of initiative gain since HoT. > After HoT, we saw the rise of the Daredevil D/P build that used the trickery trait-line to great advantage in being able to deliver a daze through stability via Slight of Hand and the unique boon-steal priority of Bountiful Theft(for those un-aware Bountiful theft prioritizes Aegis, Stability, and protection first, and the boon-steal occurs after Damage from Mug, allowing you to proc defensive stability generation traits from say basilisk venom, or a well timed heart-seeker through a lightning field, and instantly steal the boon.), as well as excessive endurance gain via Endurance Thief in daredevil. > > Now that Daredevil's heavy evasion has been toned down, we're again seeing it appear in Core S/D Builds... supplementing upper-hand's initiative gain, allowing for the almost absurd amount of evades the build is becoming know for, while granting it a very easy to ramp up to, 15% damage modifier from Lead Attacks. > > Since PoF and the introduction of the Deadeye, we again see Trickery appear across a wide range of "Spam 3" builds, simply because it allows you to spam more, allows you to immediately counter a panic heal Via slight of Hand and Bountiful Theft, while giving you access to Quickness without having to slot the utility Haste. > > In fact, trickery shows up in almost every single Thief build widely used, except those where you are expected to have additional support such as in fractals or raids, meaning you can devote all of your efforts to dealing damage, and don't have to leave some wiggle room for defensive use. > > While my examples have all been for power builds, Trickery also offers a huge amount of options for condition based builds through trait choices, and simply enabling more spamming of skills that apply conditions. > > Now Thief has always been a very Risk/Reward class, but i feel Trickery allows for too much reward for less risk, and is probably the worst offender in the stated goals of reducing the effect of passives, and instant cast abilities, since there can be in most cases no way to evade combos provided just from stealing when traited, and it provides bonuses to the core mechanic of how a thief actually uses skills. > > Again, not being the best thief player in the world, i'm un-sure how drastically some of my points fall off in "Higher level" play; which is why i'm voicing my concerns from a Theory crafting perspective rather than a play one. > > Its possible that changing trickery to not make thief feel inherently clunky would require a complete class overhaul as was done with mesmer. > > Anyways, feedback on these points would be helpful. I’d like to start by saying that making Trickery baseline is a larger change than a mere skill split can accomplish (they are reducing initiative costs on individual skills, however. As to your other comments, Trickery is not always needed in condi builds despite the confusion access. That’s because poison is better and combined with SA and elite spec there just isn’t room for Trickery (though it takes some getting used to). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liewec.2896 Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 dont worry eles, you've got your regular shatterstone buff. honestly it should be a meme at this point, "core eles are falling behind, meh, buff shatterstone!" also renegade needs waaaay more help than just one little buff to one spirit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagrant.7206 Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 > @"Tzozef.9841" said: > ""Plague Signet: Increased the cooldown from 30 seconds to 40 seconds in PvP and WvW"" > > NO! This will nerf Reaper and CORE Necromancer, this is one of our only few ways to stun break and cleanse conditions. > > With a class that already has no access to efficient stability and condi cleanse this is stupid. The only reason this is getting nerfed is because of Scourge, SO NERF THE SCOURGE BUILD, not the entire profession. > > Tells me Anet isn't thinking at all. While I'm not in favor of nerfing core necro/reaper right now, plague signet is one of the reasons other classes' condi builds cannot hold that well against necro condi builds. Speaking from experience, condi engineer has always acutely suffered from plague signet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZDragon.3046 Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 > @"Tzozef.9841" said: > ""Plague Signet: Increased the cooldown from 30 seconds to 40 seconds in PvP and WvW"" > > NO! This will nerf Reaper and CORE Necromancer, this is one of our only few ways to stun break and cleanse conditions. > > With a class that already has no access to efficient stability and condi cleanse this is stupid. The only reason this is getting nerfed is because of Scourge, SO NERF THE SCOURGE BUILD, not the entire profession. > > Tells me Anet isn't thinking at all. > @"Unmei.1678" said: > While im not sure if its been addressed, since i don't really feel like sifting through 5 pages of back and forth right now, i have only one key point id like to hear feedback on: > First off, i main thief. i have 3.4k hours on thief, i am by no means an expert, or "good", but i do enjoy theory crafting builds greatly, and i always come back to one problem: > > **_The Trickery Traitline is in need of serious tuning because of its initiative gain potential through passive minor traits, while providing major utility through trait choices, as well as being a major offender/component of "instant cast Combos"_** > > in almost any build used in PvP at the moment, it either falls apart is or severely crippled when you don't use the Trickery Tree. its one of the few sources of extra initiative available to thieves on demand, all the other sources of either active or passive initiative gain (except for Infiltrator's signet) are looking at getting a nerf this round of balance, further solidifying it as a "must". > > Trickery originally seemed to be a completely optional part of thief until the critical strike nerf that removed the ability to regain initiative on crit, while i agree that it was a needed nerf, this only left trickery as the main source of initiative gain since HoT. > After HoT, we saw the rise of the Daredevil D/P build that used the trickery trait-line to great advantage in being able to deliver a daze through stability via Slight of Hand and the unique boon-steal priority of Bountiful Theft(for those un-aware Bountiful theft prioritizes Aegis, Stability, and protection first, and the boon-steal occurs after Damage from Mug, allowing you to proc defensive stability generation traits from say basilisk venom, or a well timed heart-seeker through a lightning field, and instantly steal the boon.), as well as excessive endurance gain via Endurance Thief in daredevil. > > Now that Daredevil's heavy evasion has been toned down, we're again seeing it appear in Core S/D Builds... supplementing upper-hand's initiative gain, allowing for the almost absurd amount of evades the build is becoming know for, while granting it a very easy to ramp up to, 15% damage modifier from Lead Attacks. > > Since PoF and the introduction of the Deadeye, we again see Trickery appear across a wide range of "Spam 3" builds, simply because it allows you to spam more, allows you to immediately counter a panic heal Via slight of Hand and Bountiful Theft, while giving you access to Quickness without having to slot the utility Haste. > > In fact, trickery shows up in almost every single Thief build widely used, except those where you are expected to have additional support such as in fractals or raids, meaning you can devote all of your efforts to dealing damage, and don't have to leave some wiggle room for defensive use. > > While my examples have all been for power builds, Trickery also offers a huge amount of options for condition based builds through trait choices, and simply enabling more spamming of skills that apply conditions. > > Now Thief has always been a very Risk/Reward class, but i feel Trickery allows for too much reward for less risk, and is probably the worst offender in the stated goals of reducing the effect of passives, and instant cast abilities, since there can be in most cases no way to evade combos provided just from stealing when traited, and it provides bonuses to the core mechanic of how a thief actually uses skills. > > Again, not being the best thief player in the world, i'm un-sure how drastically some of my points fall off in "Higher level" play; which is why i'm voicing my concerns from a Theory crafting perspective rather than a play one. > > Its possible that changing trickery to not make thief feel inherently clunky would require a complete class overhaul as was done with mesmer. > > Anyways, feedback on these points would be helpful. Yet another issue that needs to be addressed by looking at the profession as whole rather than 1 part. While i dont think simply slapping trickery to baseline would be fair ore solve the problem it just proves that more than just mesmer needs a major retouch and its not likely to get it. Then again trickery is a weird line you get a dps modifier, more initiative, reduced recharge on your profession mechanic, like im not sure why you would want to take the traitline off to start with. Kinda like necro before the VP nerf to soul reaping. I suppose they could nerf a ton of trickery traits then you wont feel so bad not using or feeling locked into the line. Thats how anet usually handles it for professions that are not mesmer and mesmer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArenaNet Staff Ben Phongluangtham.1065 Posted March 26, 2018 ArenaNet Staff Share Posted March 26, 2018 > @"Liewec.2896" said: > dont worry eles, you've got your regular shatterstone buff. > honestly it should be a meme at this point, "core eles are falling behind, meh, buff shatterstone!" > > also renegade needs waaaay more help than just one little buff to one spirit. Hey, according to the wiki, it's been almost 2 years since Shatterstone had got a buff. It was due. As far as renegade, as I've said before, we know we still have a lot more balance work to do. We always will. Balance is a moving target. And not everything can be fixed with a few numbers tweaks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace al Thor.6745 Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 > @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said: > > @"Liewec.2896" said: > > dont worry eles, you've got your regular shatterstone buff. > > honestly it should be a meme at this point, "core eles are falling behind, meh, buff shatterstone!" > > > > also renegade needs waaaay more help than just one little buff to one spirit. > > Hey, according to the wiki, it's been almost 2 years since Shatterstone had got a buff. It was due. > > As far as renegade, as I've said before, we know we still have a lot more balance work to do. We always will. Balance is a moving target. And not everything can be fixed with a few numbers tweaks. > > Has it been that long? Huh Oh and Ben, would it be possible to have Phantasms capped at 3 like clones are to cut down on everyone crying about illusion spam, etc? It would go a long way in fixing the issues most people have rather than trying to adjust numbers and cd’s while maintaining viability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kovu.7560 Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 > @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said: > > Hey, according to the wiki, it's been almost 2 years since Shatterstone had got a buff. It was due. Buffs are time-gated. Good to know. I'll post the laundry list of long untouched underperforming core ranger traits and utilities that could use some serious tuning when I get home from work. =) ~ Kovu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mes.4607 Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 Praying for powerful nerfs tomorrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michelada.2947 Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 fix core engi plz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowpass.4236 Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 I just like how there are more nerfs to Core Ranger and Soulbeast than there are to Druids. _Nice._ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will de grijze jager.6594 Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 > @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said: > > @"Liewec.2896" said: > > dont worry eles, you've got your regular shatterstone buff. > > honestly it should be a meme at this point, "core eles are falling behind, meh, buff shatterstone!" > > > > also renegade needs waaaay more help than just one little buff to one spirit. > > Hey, according to the wiki, it's been almost 2 years since Shatterstone had got a buff. It was due. > > As far as renegade, as I've said before, we know we still have a lot more balance work to do. We always will. Balance is a moving target. And not everything can be fixed with a few numbers tweaks. > > So because balance is a moving target you guys will do more often balance patches? Like instead of waiting for the next balance patch in 2 to 3 months for fixing a class that is broke(Mesmer) you guys will do it more often? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will de grijze jager.6594 Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > I just like how there are more nerfs to Core Ranger and Soulbeast than there are to Druids. > > _Nice._ It is funny because they can solve druid with only nerfing 2 traits in the druid traitline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klypto.1703 Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 > @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said: > > @"Liewec.2896" said: > > dont worry eles, you've got your regular shatterstone buff. > > honestly it should be a meme at this point, "core eles are falling behind, meh, buff shatterstone!" > > > > also renegade needs waaaay more help than just one little buff to one spirit. > > Hey, according to the wiki, it's been almost 2 years since Shatterstone had got a buff. It was due. > > As far as renegade, as I've said before, we know we still have a lot more balance work to do. We always will. Balance is a moving target. And not everything can be fixed with a few numbers tweaks. > > Its funny you say moving target because most of the problems with rev are because of the fact that you cannot be a moving target. For example Renegade itself all those spirits nice and weak and they just stay and stare at your enemy. Not to mention the tablet that requires too much micromanagement and also requires anything to benefit from it to wait and stay for it to do its thing which is so so so so bad. Then remember that glint character gives you a shield to use that forces you to stay in one spot while it heals you and now 70 scourges can all drop their shades and marks right there(imagine that one). So lets take this year which is 2018 and we will say by some time during this year we make it year of the moving target and a moving target that can cleanse itself yeah thats important very important. Oh also a moving target that is moving faster than it is right now since you know no utility on renegade other than mighty might but no go go go. Just get it done because my revs would like to stop being storage characters thx. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenshu.3825 Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 Today's patch is going to be a fucking joke to Revs. I swear some people have no I'd eww a what they are doing or they are just MORONS. Nerfing COR....the ONLY FUCKing reason my Rev does raids... guess it might be time to uninstall this game. Or until they can pull there heads out their asses. MoRONs I SaY.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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