5 man queue season 11 trial

[MarshallLaw.9260]

Whilst I'd be in support of there being a 5man ranked league (separate to solo/duo) I have a question for anyone with experience of this.

 

Assuming we have ranked 5v5, the MM system would probably work out the average rating of a team and find another team of 5 with a similar average. Bearing this in mind, **what prevents 5 high plat players swapping in 2 bronze alts to drastically lower their average and pit them against mid gold teams?**

 

Another MMO I played a long time ago had this in 3 man ques where 2 players would be high plat equivalent and bring in the lowest level and lowest rated alt they had and proceed to stomp on any average team. In GW2 this is actually easier and due to gear equalization in pvp.

[Aeolus.3615]

i voted maybe, but it makes sense a full team queue and it's own ladder and rank system.

 

Cause that's how u make a pvp games.

[Math.5123]

> @"MarshallLaw.9260" said:

> Whilst I'd be in support of there being a 5man ranked league (separate to solo/duo) I have a question for anyone with experience of this.

>

> Assuming we have ranked 5v5, the MM system would probably work out the average rating of a team and find another team of 5 with a similar average. Bearing this in mind, **what prevents 5 high plat players swapping in 2 bronze alts to drastically lower their average and pit them against mid gold teams?**

>

> Another MMO I played a long time ago had this in 3 man ques where 2 players would be high plat equivalent and bring in the lowest level and lowest rated alt they had and proceed to stomp on any average team. In GW2 this is actually easier and due to gear equalization in pvp.

 

It uses the highest persons MMR in the team, not the average.

[Exalted Quality.8534]

Where were all these yes voters when this poll first came out?

 

To be fair, what the community (unfortunately) voted for was a solo/duoQ trial, but it seems that laziness has stopped them from changing it back. PvP is clearly not a priority in this game nor will it ever be.

[Jacobin.8509]

PUGs vs pre-mades kneecapped spvp in 2012 and it never recovered.

[mes.4607]

There's a reason it got removed. Too many people fakin like they just wanna play with friends or guildies. Leave 5 mans for AT

[Vieux P.1238]

> @"mrauls.6519" said:

> There's a reason it got removed. Too many people fakin like they just wanna play with friends or guildies. Leave 5 mans for AT

 

I mentioned about the abuse & why it got removed. & you would think the **Yes's** would listen to reason & how broken it was......................NOooo!

[Crab Fear.1624]

> @"mrauls.6519" said:

> There's a reason it got removed. Too many people fakin like they just wanna play with friends or guildies. Leave 5 mans for AT

 

Well I hope they release the on demand tournaments sooner than later, and hopefully if they prove popular, they can add a rank system earned over time much like HA in GW1.

 

 

[Nova.3817]

if were gonna subscibe to the solo mentality they should just req AT to be solo que only ... all in the name of fairness of course!

[Crab Fear.1624]

> @"Nova.3817" said:

> if were gonna subscibe to the solo mentality they should just req AT to be solo que only ... all in the name of fairness of course!

 

LOL, would it be the same few teams always winning anymore?

[Sylosi.6503]

> @"Exalted Quality.8534" said:

> Where were all these yes voters when this poll first came out?

 

There are barely any voters of any sort in this poll, that should be the clue as to why a poll like this does not match up with the results of an official poll...

[Exalted Quality.8534]

> @"Sylosi.6503" said:

> > @"Exalted Quality.8534" said:

> > Where were all these yes voters when this poll first came out?

>

> There are barely any voters of any sort in this poll, that should be the clue as to why a poll like this does not match up with the results of an official poll...

 

Perhaps people realize the futility of such a poll. ANET devs have given us no reason to beleive they are focused on making PvP a more enjoyable experience.

 

It’s my opinion that there was overwhelming support for solo/duoQ from PvE players because they were salty that legendary wings were taking longer than a season to compete. Now that most of them have already “earned” their wings, they’ve left us with crap ass solo/duoq and moved back to PvE.

[Sylosi.6503]

> @"Exalted Quality.8534" said:

> > @"Sylosi.6503" said:

> > > @"Exalted Quality.8534" said:

> > > Where were all these yes voters when this poll first came out?

> >

> > There are barely any voters of any sort in this poll, that should be the clue as to why a poll like this does not match up with the results of an official poll...

>

> Perhaps people realize the futility of such a poll. ANET devs have given us no reason to beleive they are focused on making PvP a more enjoyable experience.

 

Pretty much every random poll like this on the forums is futile because firstly the vast majority of the playerbase will not even read the thread, let alone vote on it and secondly in most polls (including this one) there is usually one side who feel more strongly about the poll than the other (they typically feel the current situation is wrong, unfair, etc so are often more bothered about it), so that group is more 'active', which then distorts a poll that is already statistically worthless, even more.

 

> It’s my opinion that there was overwhelming support for solo/duoQ from PvE players because they were salty that legendary wings were taking longer than a season to compete. Now that most of them have already “earned” their wings, they’ve left us with crap kitten solo/duoq and moved back to PvE.

 

This is apparently going to come as a shock, but most people in PvP games play solo/duo, then of the people that play in groups larger than that most also play solo / duo at least some of the time, very few people play only as 3/4/5 man groups, hence the result of the official poll should not have been a massive surprise to anyone.

 

 

[Crab Fear.1624]

> @"Sylosi.6503" said:

> > @"Exalted Quality.8534" said:

> > > @"Sylosi.6503" said:

> > > > @"Exalted Quality.8534" said:

> > > > Where were all these yes voters when this poll first came out?

> > >

> > > There are barely any voters of any sort in this poll, that should be the clue as to why a poll like this does not match up with the results of an official poll...

> >

> > Perhaps people realize the futility of such a poll. ANET devs have given us no reason to beleive they are focused on making PvP a more enjoyable experience.

>

> Pretty much every random poll like this on the forums is futile because firstly the vast majority of the playerbase will not even read the thread, let alone vote on it and secondly in most polls (including this one) there is usually one side who feel more strongly about the poll than the other (they typically feel the current situation is wrong, unfair, etc so are often more bothered about it), so that group is more 'active', which then distorts a poll that is already statistically worthless, even more.

>

> > It’s my opinion that there was overwhelming support for solo/duoQ from PvE players because they were salty that legendary wings were taking longer than a season to compete. Now that most of them have already “earned” their wings, they’ve left us with crap kitten solo/duo q and moved back to PvE.

>

> This is apparently going to come as a shock, but most people in PvP games play solo/duo, then of the people that play in groups larger than that most also play solo / duo at least some of the time, very few people play only as 3/4/5 man groups, hence the result of the official poll should not have been a massive surprise to anyone.

>

>

 

**Disclaimer: All of the below is my opinion. I am dug in, but if I stated something factually wrong, my "opinion" can be swayed.**

 

Well the poll was for a trial, and the devs said post season there would be another poll to see if the changes should stay. That second poll never happened.

 

It would make sense that conquest would have more solo and duo players. There is not a team requirement and you can just go at your leisure.

I am pretty sure when there were team arenas in GW1, more people just played random arenas.

 

But there was also ON DEMAND structured competitive team required games in Guild Wars 1 such as GvG and HA with with rankings.

During GW1's prime, they were always popping and popular.

 

Currently ATs do not compare to this, nor satisfy the needs of PVP guilds.

 

Competitive guild rankings would make more sense than individual leaderboard positions in a **team based** game. Sure, you q up solo, but random or not, you play on a team.

 

[My OP in this thread explains why I feel this way.](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/38123/guild-wars-2-needs-a-team-required-competitive-seasoned-based-game-mode-or-ha#latest "https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/38123/guild-wars-2-needs-a-team-required-competitive-seasoned-based-game-mode-or-ha")

 

If they released a Gw2 version of GvG or HA, I would bet my left nutella jar that it would be relatively as popular.

 

But, I don't expect things to change.

 

I am not satisfied with the situation, so I don't play the game mode. I will come to the forums and discuss though, in case that a miracle happens and the devs pop in and drop some awesome news.

 

 

 

 

[Panda.3620]

As long as it queue a premade 5 people team against another premade 5 people team I don't care.

 

If it queue 4 premade with 1 random against a 4 premade with 1 random, i'm agains't it.

 

There will be a team that will win it all until people don't queue anymore for 5v5 team pvp because of rating loss.

So they will start playing a 4 premade, forcing two random players to their luck.

 

I like our current system, matches are balanced, duo/premade teams are just a excuse for someone to carry low skilled players on his backpack or be carried.

 

On high ratings, duo is just a way of making sure you have someone skilled on your team, but as a solo player, I like the odds of playing in a place where everyone have only themselves to trust.

[witcher.3197]

> @"Panda.3620" said:

> I like our current system, matches are balanced

 

Hi, could I get an invite to your reality? Because I'm clearly living in a different one.

 

 

[Stephen.1207]

I get better matches in unrank were people can 5 man a team why is that its because u not stuck in a div with the same players all the time insted teams get more rondom meaning u get a good player on the team or 2 by luck u may win and the matches seem more closer then rank like scores 400-500 not like rank 110 to 500

 

[Nova.3817]

> @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> > @"Nova.3817" said:

> > if were gonna subscibe to the solo mentality they should just req AT to be solo que only ... all in the name of fairness of course!

>

> LOL, would it be the same few teams always winning anymore?

 

no since ATS dont have matchmaking at all teams would be random entirely and it would make for a fair shot at winning any tourny....of course all notions of competitive go out the window but that seems to be the direction everyone wants anyways thus my point.

[Nova.3817]

> @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> > @"Nova.3817" said:

> > if were gonna subscibe to the solo mentality they should just req AT to be solo que only ... all in the name of fairness of course!

>

> LOL, would it be the same few teams always winning anymore?

 

no since ATS dont have matchmaking at all teams would be random entirely and it would make for a fair shot at winning any tourny....of course all notions of competitive go out the window but that seems to be the direction everyone wants anyways thus my point.

[shadowpass.4236]

This game will never be competitive again if there's no team que.

 

Why do you think all of these player-run tournaments are so popular? People want to play with their friends and others are interested in watching as well.

 

I don't see why we can't give team que a trial run for a season. The solo que was supposed to be a trial as well, however Anet lied and made it permanent instead.

[ReaverKane.7598]

> @"Sylosi.6503" said:

> > @"Exalted Quality.8534" said:

> > > @"Sylosi.6503" said:

> > > > @"Exalted Quality.8534" said:

> > > > Where were all these yes voters when this poll first came out?

> > >

> > > There are barely any voters of any sort in this poll, that should be the clue as to why a poll like this does not match up with the results of an official poll...

> >

> > Perhaps people realize the futility of such a poll. ANET devs have given us no reason to beleive they are focused on making PvP a more enjoyable experience.

>

> Pretty much every random poll like this on the forums is futile because firstly the vast majority of the playerbase will not even read the thread, let alone vote on it and secondly in most polls (including this one) there is usually one side who feel more strongly about the poll than the other (they typically feel the current situation is wrong, unfair, etc so are often more bothered about it), so that group is more 'active', which then distorts a poll that is already statistically worthless, even more.

>

> > It’s my opinion that there was overwhelming support for solo/duoQ from PvE players because they were salty that legendary wings were taking longer than a season to compete. Now that most of them have already “earned” their wings, they’ve left us with crap kitten solo/duoq and moved back to PvE.

>

> This is apparently going to come as a shock, but most people in PvP games play solo/duo, then of the people that play in groups larger than that most also play solo / duo at least some of the time, very few people play only as 3/4/5 man groups, hence the result of the official poll should not have been a massive surprise to anyone.

>

>

 

Here's a issue i have with this whole poll thing...

So because of a different discussion i've been looking a lot at the statistics in GW2 Efficiency, and i hit a disturbing note:

Out of everyone playing sPvP only ~11% are rank 80 or higher... Meaning that 89% of players don't care enough about sPvP to play it consistently enough to have done something that a lot of people did in the first year the game released (reach Rank 80).

 

So now you're telling me that a majority vote should matter on an issue that only ~10% of people actually care about enough to invest the time to even just rank to 80, only about 6% have enough ranked games played to have been on the leader boards every season (120 per season x 10 seasons = 1 200 ranked games).

 

So why do you expect the vote to help improve sPvP when the majority doesn't really play that much of it? And i'll admit i'm not in that majority, i could have been closer than i am, but i like to play with my guild mates, that's why i play MMORPGs. And its not fun when we have to split into pairs and maybe leave one guy alone, or have to play the less rewarding game mode (which i've done often, until i actually stopped playing entirely).

Every other pvp game privileges teams in team modes, which Conquest most certainly is. And yet GW2 doesn't. Small wonder its floundering hard!

 

The majority posted simply to advance their ease of farming. Its certainly easier to farm and get wins (and win-trade) when the competitive aspect of the game is entirely ruined.

 

[Crab Fear.1624]

If they ever release a team required competitive **ON DEMAND** game mode with "team" rankings, I will **never play conquest/ranked/random arenas again**

[Panda.3620]

> @"witcher.3197" said:

> > @"Panda.3620" said:

> > I like our current system, matches are balanced

>

> Hi, could I get an invite to your reality? Because I'm clearly living in a different one.

>

>

 

Just check the leaderboards w/l rating of the players, seems pretty balanced to me plat division.

 

You win some, you lose some, that's the reality, if you can't afford losing don't play a competitive mode, there will be matches that will be one sided, yes. Deal with it, it's normal, every competitive game has it, there is no fix. Sometimes the stars align, sometimes your team have no sinergy, sometimes you get an afk, sometimes you get a bad player.

 

But anyways, I can't speak for other divisions, but taking a look at the leaderboards, plat division is pretty balanced w/l wise.

 

On bronze/silver you can't expect to have a balanced match skill wise, since there is no skill to begin it, it's players learning pvp, their class and get a feeling of a competitive environment, gold is where people think they know how to play the game but still have much to learn, gold players are mostly class skilled wise, but lack awareness. map control, how to rotate so they're on a winrate of 50~%, since they cant win more than they lose, they're stuck.

 

Plat are players that are somewhat decent and have a good knowledge of how to play all together.

But still, as I said earlier there will be matches where the stars don't align class composition/sinergy wise.

 

So premade teams are just a excuse for bronze/silver/gold players to climb something they don't deserve and plat players to maintain their spots on the LB and try to supress their losses, making it easier to climb the LB, so there will be players on the LB that are there because of their skill and players that were just carried.

[Crab Fear.1624]

> @"Vieux P.1238" said:

> Yes i said it! No one else. Yeah yeah i can hear the rants & all the multi excuses vs my point. But hear this for a sec.... You got to agree. No matter how many times Anet balances the classes. No matter how many times Anet makes up new changes to matchmaking & spvp conquest. No matter how good or how new you are in this game mode. **CONQUEST WILL PUNISH YOU IF YOU DON'T GO BY THE NUMBERS.** I said it & i said it before. It takes only one player in your team to F it up. & it punishes you & the whole team no matter what. In most of the time there's no catching up. Conquest in RANK, has got to be replaced by an other game mode that does not punish the whole match for you or another that messed up. That AFK's. That Wintrade's. That hacks. There is no but's about it. Rank deserve a new look at it's core game mode & replaced by a new one. Keep conquest in unrank.

 

[your original thread](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/28946/rank-conquest-has-got-to-go#latest "https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/28946/rank-conquest-has-got-to-go#latest")

 

to show i didnt edit it


 

 

Hmm... a game mode that doesnt punish you for messing up or someone you dont know messing up....

 

like a team required game mode?

[Crab Fear.1624]

I post team related arguments here even if the original intent was for a team based conquest trial. But honestly I would love a permanent team game mode with

"team/guild " leaderboards instead of individual ratings. Now that is not saying I wouldn't want to earn some kind of rank (with a cool emote like GW1) over an extended period of time. If Anet plans to keep the Gw2 machine running for a while longer (4-6 more years?), then making it difficult to attain would not be an issue for me either.

I truly believe that if they would expand their team based PVP and bring out new modes, return GvG and some form of HA they would draw a lot more players in and keep them.

 

Imagine seeing your guild name in tag in a world chat saying "Some Guild [Gild] won some funky battle in the Special Place"

 

In GW1 prime win trading and the concept was virtually non-existent because the better team would prevail. I don't care if they keep the ranked and leaderboards but I never could understand the concept of being individually rated for a team effort, even if it is in many other games, it does not mean it's right.