ArenaNet Staff Ben Phongluangtham.1065 Posted March 30, 2018 ArenaNet Staff Share Posted March 30, 2018 I looked into Pulmonary Impact as well. I think the confusion people are having is that the noted 29% decrease was off the previous PvP damage number. Not the current PvE number. Also, WvW previously didn't have the split. The change was intended, we just didn't properly list the impact to WvW. PvE damage multiplier: 3.28 Old PvP Damage Multiplier: 2.8 Old WvW Damage Multiplier: 3.28 New PvP/WvW Damage Multiplier: 2 Reduction of 28.5% in PvP. Reduction of 39% in WvW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omgdracula.6345 Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 > @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said: > We're looking at this now. From my preliminary check, looking at the actual damage multipliers in the skill scripts: > > PvE: > 1) Double Strike (X2): 0.4 > 2) Wild Strike:: 0.85 > 3) Lotus Strike: 1.1 > > PvP/WvW: > 1) Double Strike (x2): 0.3 (25% Reduction) > 2) Wild Strike: 0.65 (23.5% Reduction) > 3) Lotus Strike: 1.1 (No change) > > > > There is 0 modifier in the script for Lotus strike for PvP/WvW. > > We'll keep looking, to see if we're missing something else. > > Edit: > Overall reduction to the chain is 14.5%. If you average those together it comes out to 16%. Unless I am averaging % together wrongly. but 25+23.5+0 = 48.5 / 3 = 16.2 Regardless the auto nerfs in general were silly as thieves rarely will complete a full rotation. That case is very rare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArenaNet Staff Ben Phongluangtham.1065 Posted March 30, 2018 ArenaNet Staff Share Posted March 30, 2018 > @"omgdracula.6345" said: > > @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said: > > We're looking at this now. From my preliminary check, looking at the actual damage multipliers in the skill scripts: > > > > PvE: > > 1) Double Strike (X2): 0.4 > > 2) Wild Strike:: 0.85 > > 3) Lotus Strike: 1.1 > > > > PvP/WvW: > > 1) Double Strike (x2): 0.3 (25% Reduction) > > 2) Wild Strike: 0.65 (23.5% Reduction) > > 3) Lotus Strike: 1.1 (No change) > > > > > > > > There is 0 modifier in the script for Lotus strike for PvP/WvW. > > > > We'll keep looking, to see if we're missing something else. > > > > Edit: > > Overall reduction to the chain is 14.5%. > > If you average those together it comes out to 16%. Unless I am averaging % together wrongly. but 25+23.5+0 = 48.5 / 3 = 16.2 > > Regardless the auto nerfs in general were silly as thieves rarely will complete a full rotation. That case is very rare. I got my numbers by doing the sum of the WvW/PvP multipliers and dividing by the sum of the PvE multipliers. .3+.3+.65+1.1 = 2.35 .4+.4+.85+1.1 = 2.75 1-(2.32/2.75) = .145 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Disgrace.4275 Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 are theres numbers going to stick? because in wvw people are runing around with full trailblazing gear or minstral stats and as of right now, the AA on sword tickles theres sort of people and its impossible to presume anyone any more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks.2057 Posted March 30, 2018 Author Share Posted March 30, 2018 > @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said: > I looked into Pulmonary Impact as well. I think the confusion people are having is that the noted 29% decrease was off the previous PvP damage number. Not the current PvE number. Also, WvW previously didn't have the split. > > The change was intended, we just didn't properly list the impact to WvW. > > PvE damage multiplier: 3.28 > Old PvP Damage Multiplier: 2.8 > Old WvW Damage Multiplier: 3.28 > > New PvP/WvW Damage Multiplier: 2 > Reduction of 28.5% in PvP. > Reduction of 39% in WvW. > Thank you for the response. I didn't test the Dagger AA's just did the swords which you've not commented on the discrepancy with that and Larcenous strike. By my testing I got a 34-35% decrease in damage on Larc strike. My AA range for WvW is 1400-1700 with my PvE Range 2000-2500 which still shows a larger than 15% damage decrease. Thank You p.s. I know everyone here is looking at numbers, but we need tests. Let's get some more testing done as a community and provide our results here. Also if Anet could put together some tests it would be awesome, or heck put me in a place in game to run some I'd be up for that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 > @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said: > > @"omgdracula.6345" said: > > > @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said: > > > We're looking at this now. From my preliminary check, looking at the actual damage multipliers in the skill scripts: > > > > > > PvE: > > > 1) Double Strike (X2): 0.4 > > > 2) Wild Strike:: 0.85 > > > 3) Lotus Strike: 1.1 > > > > > > PvP/WvW: > > > 1) Double Strike (x2): 0.3 (25% Reduction) > > > 2) Wild Strike: 0.65 (23.5% Reduction) > > > 3) Lotus Strike: 1.1 (No change) > > > > > > > > > > > > There is 0 modifier in the script for Lotus strike for PvP/WvW. > > > > > > We'll keep looking, to see if we're missing something else. > > > > > > Edit: > > > Overall reduction to the chain is 14.5%. > > > > If you average those together it comes out to 16%. Unless I am averaging % together wrongly. but 25+23.5+0 = 48.5 / 3 = 16.2 > > > > Regardless the auto nerfs in general were silly as thieves rarely will complete a full rotation. That case is very rare. > > I got my numbers by doing the sum of the WvW/PvP multipliers and dividing by the sum of the PvE multipliers. > > .3+.3+.65+1.1 = 2.35 > .4+.4+.85+1.1 = 2.75 > 1-(2.32/2.75) = .145 > > > > This change is really concerning. May I ask for the down to earth reason for this change? I'm pretty sure you can understand why most of us thief mains have 25 stacks of pure tilt. If not... From a salty thief main... It's ridiculously difficult to fight another player now. One of our few class pros have been taken away when we already have mesmer dangerously in our territory of the game. And each balance patch we all read it with jaded resolve to see what in our kit got a seemingly undeserved nerf. Still have day one bugs. "No valid path to target" in areas of a clear path, this still consumes our resources. shadow trap not functioning correctly half the time. Scorpion wire not always pulling people to you. Builds limited by a single highly needed trait in trickery. And our one main support utility, shadow refuge, being nearly useless in PvP support because the enemy can see the circle and spam AOEs on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrHome.1920 Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 Thieves could change one of their disengages to something that increases their damage, like the buffed Assassin's Signet to maintain their pre patch burst, but become mortal like the rest of us (well except mesmers, but that's another story). But I think being killable is not an option for the typical teef. /a former thief main, who became bored by this faceroll class Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babazhook.6805 Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 Due to the design of thief , one of two things have to occur. The AA chain must be high to compensate for the times where there no INI given all other skills are unusable with no INI , or the skills that use INI must hit very much harder when the AA chain too weak. While we can use a skill 2 or three times in a row, we are not like other professions wherein when one skill on cooldown we just use the next or do a weponswap. Some have suggested toning down damage for specific skills for thief and distributing it among other skills but this does not work because the INI pool is the constraint. The tradeoff on the higher AA damage was that most of the weapon sets that had that high damage demanded you up close and personal which a thief can only do in short spurts. If the higher damage is going to remain in the INI type skills, then the pool of INI needs to keep up or we are even more locked to the TR line. If the intent is the thief get off the full chain of the #1 attacks then more reward needed for accomplishing this. There a number of ways this can be addressed if the intent is to force the thief into relying on INI type skills for more of his big hitters. One can be lowering the INI cost on a number of said skills. Another can be upping the base INI pool. Perhaps a trait to the CS line that works like the P/P unload wherein if an enitre chain of an AA pulled off the thief gains two ini. In essence when damage drops in the AA chain and INI relied on to do the real damage if one does NOT want single and excessive hard hitting attacks in the INI skill pool , then more attacks with lower damage have to occur. Obviously this latter suggestion leads to the "skill spam" scenario where more INI means more multiple uses of the same skill but the reality of thief is that it will always be an outlier. In reality using the same skill to do damage several times in a row is no different in real game terms then chaining through a rotation of Cooldown type skills. It just a different number pressed. The intent in pressing that number is to do damage or provide utility or defense. Whether the damage comes from a skill named Rose , Rose , Rose it no diffrent then if that damage comes from using skills called Rose , Duck, Cheese. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinnel.4369 Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 > @"KrHome.1920" said: > Thieves could change one of their disengages to something that increases their damage, like the buffed Assassin's Signet to maintain their pre patch burst, but becoming mortal like the rest of us (well except mesmers, but that's another story). > > But I think being killable is not an option for the typical teef. > > /a former thief main, who became bored by this faceroll class This begs the disclosure of what super high skill ceiling gw2 class you actually play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sojourner.4621 Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 Nevermind, please delete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 > @"KrHome.1920" said: > Thieves could change one of their disengages to something that increases their damage, like the buffed Assassin's Signet to maintain their pre patch burst, but become mortal like the rest of us (well except mesmers, but that's another story). > > But I think being killable is not an option for the typical teef. > > /a former thief main, who became bored by this faceroll class Cool story, bro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jugglemonkey.8741 Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 > @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said: > We're looking at this now. From my preliminary check, looking at the actual damage multipliers in the skill scripts: > > PvE: > 1) Double Strike (X2): 0.4 > 2) Wild Strike:: 0.85 > 3) Lotus Strike: 1.1 > > PvP/WvW: > 1) Double Strike (x2): 0.3 (25% Reduction) > 2) Wild Strike: 0.65 (23.5% Reduction) > 3) Lotus Strike: 1.1 (No change) > > > > There is 0 modifier in the script for Lotus strike for PvP/WvW. > > We'll keep looking, to see if we're missing something else. > > Edit: > Overall reduction to the chain is 14.5%. Thanks for looking into this, and the clarification on pulmonary impact damage, it's much appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omgdracula.6345 Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 > @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said: > > @"omgdracula.6345" said: > > > @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said: > > > We're looking at this now. From my preliminary check, looking at the actual damage multipliers in the skill scripts: > > > > > > PvE: > > > 1) Double Strike (X2): 0.4 > > > 2) Wild Strike:: 0.85 > > > 3) Lotus Strike: 1.1 > > > > > > PvP/WvW: > > > 1) Double Strike (x2): 0.3 (25% Reduction) > > > 2) Wild Strike: 0.65 (23.5% Reduction) > > > 3) Lotus Strike: 1.1 (No change) > > > > > > > > > > > > There is 0 modifier in the script for Lotus strike for PvP/WvW. > > > > > > We'll keep looking, to see if we're missing something else. > > > > > > Edit: > > > Overall reduction to the chain is 14.5%. > > > > If you average those together it comes out to 16%. Unless I am averaging % together wrongly. but 25+23.5+0 = 48.5 / 3 = 16.2 > > > > Regardless the auto nerfs in general were silly as thieves rarely will complete a full rotation. That case is very rare. > > I got my numbers by doing the sum of the WvW/PvP multipliers and dividing by the sum of the PvE multipliers. > > .3+.3+.65+1.1 = 2.35 > .4+.4+.85+1.1 = 2.75 > 1-(2.32/2.75) = .145 > > > > Using the bottom formula and placing it into google gives the result of 0.15636363636 which again is 16%. I also busted out my old TI-83 and got the same results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinnel.4369 Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 > @"omgdracula.6345" said: > > @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said: > > > @"omgdracula.6345" said: > > > > @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said: > > > > We're looking at this now. From my preliminary check, looking at the actual damage multipliers in the skill scripts: > > > > > > > > PvE: > > > > 1) Double Strike (X2): 0.4 > > > > 2) Wild Strike:: 0.85 > > > > 3) Lotus Strike: 1.1 > > > > > > > > PvP/WvW: > > > > 1) Double Strike (x2): 0.3 (25% Reduction) > > > > 2) Wild Strike: 0.65 (23.5% Reduction) > > > > 3) Lotus Strike: 1.1 (No change) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is 0 modifier in the script for Lotus strike for PvP/WvW. > > > > > > > > We'll keep looking, to see if we're missing something else. > > > > > > > > Edit: > > > > Overall reduction to the chain is 14.5%. > > > > > > If you average those together it comes out to 16%. Unless I am averaging % together wrongly. but 25+23.5+0 = 48.5 / 3 = 16.2 > > > > > > Regardless the auto nerfs in general were silly as thieves rarely will complete a full rotation. That case is very rare. > > > > I got my numbers by doing the sum of the WvW/PvP multipliers and dividing by the sum of the PvE multipliers. > > > > .3+.3+.65+1.1 = 2.35 > > .4+.4+.85+1.1 = 2.75 > > 1-(2.32/2.75) = .145 > > > > > > > > > > Using the bottom formula and placing it into google gives the result of 0.15636363636 which again is 16%. > > I also busted out my old TI-83 and got the same results. Ben's bottom formula has a typo, 2.35 not 2.32 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omgdracula.6345 Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 > @"Tinnel.4369" said: > > @"omgdracula.6345" said: > > > @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said: > > > > @"omgdracula.6345" said: > > > > > @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said: > > > > > We're looking at this now. From my preliminary check, looking at the actual damage multipliers in the skill scripts: > > > > > > > > > > PvE: > > > > > 1) Double Strike (X2): 0.4 > > > > > 2) Wild Strike:: 0.85 > > > > > 3) Lotus Strike: 1.1 > > > > > > > > > > PvP/WvW: > > > > > 1) Double Strike (x2): 0.3 (25% Reduction) > > > > > 2) Wild Strike: 0.65 (23.5% Reduction) > > > > > 3) Lotus Strike: 1.1 (No change) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is 0 modifier in the script for Lotus strike for PvP/WvW. > > > > > > > > > > We'll keep looking, to see if we're missing something else. > > > > > > > > > > Edit: > > > > > Overall reduction to the chain is 14.5%. > > > > > > > > If you average those together it comes out to 16%. Unless I am averaging % together wrongly. but 25+23.5+0 = 48.5 / 3 = 16.2 > > > > > > > > Regardless the auto nerfs in general were silly as thieves rarely will complete a full rotation. That case is very rare. > > > > > > I got my numbers by doing the sum of the WvW/PvP multipliers and dividing by the sum of the PvE multipliers. > > > > > > .3+.3+.65+1.1 = 2.35 > > > .4+.4+.85+1.1 = 2.75 > > > 1-(2.32/2.75) = .145 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Using the bottom formula and placing it into google gives the result of 0.15636363636 which again is 16%. > > > > I also busted out my old TI-83 and got the same results. > > Ben's bottom formula has a typo, 2.35 not 2.32 That checks out then. Still unwarranted nerfs though. There is 0 reason thief AA needed a nerf. They are the only thing to use after initial initiative use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Majirah.5089 Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 > @"omgdracula.6345" said: > > @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said: > > > @"omgdracula.6345" said: > > > > @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said: > > > > We're looking at this now. From my preliminary check, looking at the actual damage multipliers in the skill scripts: > > > > > > > > PvE: > > > > 1) Double Strike (X2): 0.4 > > > > 2) Wild Strike:: 0.85 > > > > 3) Lotus Strike: 1.1 > > > > > > > > PvP/WvW: > > > > 1) Double Strike (x2): 0.3 (25% Reduction) > > > > 2) Wild Strike: 0.65 (23.5% Reduction) > > > > 3) Lotus Strike: 1.1 (No change) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is 0 modifier in the script for Lotus strike for PvP/WvW. > > > > > > > > We'll keep looking, to see if we're missing something else. > > > > > > > > Edit: > > > > Overall reduction to the chain is 14.5%. > > > > > > If you average those together it comes out to 16%. Unless I am averaging % together wrongly. but 25+23.5+0 = 48.5 / 3 = 16.2 > > > > > > Regardless the auto nerfs in general were silly as thieves rarely will complete a full rotation. That case is very rare. > > > > I got my numbers by doing the sum of the WvW/PvP multipliers and dividing by the sum of the PvE multipliers. > > > > .3+.3+.65+1.1 = 2.35 > > .4+.4+.85+1.1 = 2.75 > > 1-(2.32/2.75) = .145 > > > > > > > > > > Using the bottom formula and placing it into google gives the result of 0.15636363636 which again is 16%. > > I also busted out my old TI-83 and got the same results. Bens math is correct he just put a typo in the bottom formula. The .145 comes from 1-(2.35/2.75). The ending value in his formula is a typo of 2.32, which would result in the .156. He just typed the formula wrong, but the math is correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinnel.4369 Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 > @"omgdracula.6345" said: > > @"Tinnel.4369" said: > > > @"omgdracula.6345" said: > > > > @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said: > > > > > @"omgdracula.6345" said: > > > > > > @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said: > > > > > > We're looking at this now. From my preliminary check, looking at the actual damage multipliers in the skill scripts: > > > > > > > > > > > > PvE: > > > > > > 1) Double Strike (X2): 0.4 > > > > > > 2) Wild Strike:: 0.85 > > > > > > 3) Lotus Strike: 1.1 > > > > > > > > > > > > PvP/WvW: > > > > > > 1) Double Strike (x2): 0.3 (25% Reduction) > > > > > > 2) Wild Strike: 0.65 (23.5% Reduction) > > > > > > 3) Lotus Strike: 1.1 (No change) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is 0 modifier in the script for Lotus strike for PvP/WvW. > > > > > > > > > > > > We'll keep looking, to see if we're missing something else. > > > > > > > > > > > > Edit: > > > > > > Overall reduction to the chain is 14.5%. > > > > > > > > > > If you average those together it comes out to 16%. Unless I am averaging % together wrongly. but 25+23.5+0 = 48.5 / 3 = 16.2 > > > > > > > > > > Regardless the auto nerfs in general were silly as thieves rarely will complete a full rotation. That case is very rare. > > > > > > > > I got my numbers by doing the sum of the WvW/PvP multipliers and dividing by the sum of the PvE multipliers. > > > > > > > > .3+.3+.65+1.1 = 2.35 > > > > .4+.4+.85+1.1 = 2.75 > > > > 1-(2.32/2.75) = .145 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Using the bottom formula and placing it into google gives the result of 0.15636363636 which again is 16%. > > > > > > I also busted out my old TI-83 and got the same results. > > > > Ben's bottom formula has a typo, 2.35 not 2.32 > > That checks out then. Still unwarranted nerfs though. There is 0 reason thief AA needed a nerf. They are the only thing to use after initial initiative use. > Agreed, I'd be assuming, but things like this strike me as the result of a numbers game based on the goal only, with little thought to application. Cutting passives is the goal. For a passive auto attack thieves have high damage above threshold X, add to list for reduction based on Y calculation. But thieves other attacks are initiative based. Not the goal or part of the threshold parameters, ignore logic gap proceed to live, free, testing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Disgrace.4275 Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 ok what i have noticed in wvw is that as s/d everything seems to be - dmg. even things like dancing dagger and CnD have less dmg now, and this is vs the same people from last MU and with me with more power. not surte of there is a bug that has made all of sword and dagger skill regarding weapon set have the same -14% nerf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curennos.9307 Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 I'd rather they backload the damage on thief's AA (more so than it already is anyway). The first two strikes for pressure and the third being a tad slower/slightly more difficult to land but compensating with higher damage. I get people don't want to just die to endless teef AAs, but I think the degree of this nerf was a tad too much. Now my AAs feel weak and I've started to not even bother sticking in in melee range. I think it'd be cool if the 3rd dagger chain was like a psuedo backstab. Maybe even give it bonus damage if done from the back (because if you land it in combat, someone is probably trying to kite and has their back to you). Would be interesting. And then either give DE a 10-20% move speed passive, a way to sacrifice ini for swiftness out of combat, or instant Mark? *cough* Really though, my DE bias aside I'd love it if they made thief AAs a bit more interactive/takes a bit more effort to get the full (or extra) bonuses/dmg from instead of just...a flat number they occasionally decrease. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeceiverX.8361 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said: > @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 > > are theres numbers going to stick? because in wvw people are runing around with full trailblazing gear or minstral stats and as of right now, the AA on sword tickles theres sort of people and its impossible to presume anyone any more. That's the problem with Dire/TB though. The kit is literally full tank + nearly full damage. A 15% shave across the AA chain would have been better, though. 30% is pre-HoT values if not lower which just isn't acceptable with the power creep in the game atm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kageseigi.2150 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 > @"babazhook.6805" said: > Due to the design of thief , one of two things have to occur. The AA chain must be high to compensate for the times where there no INI given all other skills are unusable with no INI , or the skills that use INI must hit very much harder when the AA chain too weak. While we can use a skill 2 or three times in a row, we are not like other professions wherein when one skill on cooldown we just use the next or do a weponswap. Some have suggested toning down damage for specific skills for thief and distributing it among other skills but this does not work because the INI pool is the constraint. ^ This. So here comes the old, scratch record of possible fixes... 1. Each weapon set has its own initiative pool. So when you switch weapons, you are no longer locked out of initiative skills. If each pool had 12/15 initiative, then continuously switching as soon as possible would still not allow full initiative bars. 2. Weapon sets continue to share one initiative pool. However, when you switch weapons, you partially refill the initiative pool. Say 10 initiative on swap. Trickery and Quick Pockets would still have their uses. 10 initiative also equates to a 10 second weapon-swap cooldown. 3. While it doesn't specifically address the lack of initiative, removing the weapon-swap cooldown (or reducing it to 1 second) would give the Thief versatility in how it uses its limited initiative pool. A Thief would gain access to a wider variety of attack combinations (D/P 3 -> P/D 3 -> D/P 3) as well as better transitions from offense to defense and back to offense, by not getting locked into an offensive weapon set (D/P) or defensive weapon set (Shortbow) for 10 seconds whenever they only need that weapon set for 3 seconds. I'm sure there are many other possibilities, but those are the big three that I've discussed from time to time. I suppose we as a community need to come to a consensus of what the specific issue(s) the Thief suffers from so we can address it directly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tabootrinket.2631 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 > @"Kageseigi.2150" said: > > @"babazhook.6805" said: > > Due to the design of thief , one of two things have to occur. The AA chain must be high to compensate for the times where there no INI given all other skills are unusable with no INI , or the skills that use INI must hit very much harder when the AA chain too weak. While we can use a skill 2 or three times in a row, we are not like other professions wherein when one skill on cooldown we just use the next or do a weponswap. Some have suggested toning down damage for specific skills for thief and distributing it among other skills but this does not work because the INI pool is the constraint. > > ^ This. So here comes the old, scratch record of possible fixes... > > 1. Each weapon set has its own initiative pool. So when you switch weapons, you are no longer locked out of initiative skills. If each pool had 12/15 initiative, then continuously switching as soon as possible would still not allow full initiative bars. > 2. Weapon sets continue to share one initiative pool. However, when you switch weapons, you partially refill the initiative pool. Say 10 initiative on swap. Trickery and Quick Pockets would still have their uses. 10 initiative also equates to a 10 second weapon-swap cooldown. > 3. While it doesn't specifically address the lack of initiative, removing the weapon-swap cooldown (or reducing it to 1 second) would give the Thief versatility in how it uses its limited initiative pool. A Thief would gain access to a wider variety of attack combinations (D/P 3 -> P/D 3 -> D/P 3) as well as better transitions from offense to defense and back to offense, by not getting locked into an offensive weapon set (D/P) or defensive weapon set (Shortbow) for 10 seconds whenever they only need that weapon set for 3 seconds. > > I'm sure there are many other possibilities, but those are the big three that I've discussed from time to time. > I suppose we as a community need to come to a consensus of what the specific issue(s) the Thief suffers from so we can address it directly. I'm all for number 3 personally. It would most likely incite me to get back to my former thief main. People who don't know keep on saying it would be OP because [insert impossible infinite combo], but we have a limited initiative pool shared by every single action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lkilian.1854 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 > @"KrHome.1920" said: > Thieves could change one of their disengages to something that increases their damage, like the buffed Assassin's Signet to maintain their pre patch burst, but become mortal like the rest of us (well except mesmers, but that's another story). > > But I think being killable is not an option for the typical teef. > > /a former thief main, who became bored by this faceroll class Mortal like the rest of us? Like warrior's double endure pain, necro barrier spam, guardian aegis uptime, engi miniature elixirs, ranger's double stone signet, elementalist's arcane shield and water sustain, or mesmer stuff you said? Revenant would be the only with right to complain here and even then it has many ways to mitigate damage and the capability of using 2 heal skills in few time. Every class has damage mitigation skills, and thief needs them too because it is one of the squishiest classes. Even then, thief's evades are active unlike many other professions that limit that function to using a skill and facetanking damage. I can see why you no longer play thief because it looks like you have no idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asur.9178 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 Your problems and frustrations can be solved by playing a mesmer. Try it! You won't regret it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klypto.1703 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 I so hope they revert the changes I like to see more than three digit numbers on my auto attacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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