Feedback on the State of the Mesmer [merged]

[witcher.3197]

> @"derd.6413" said:

> > @"dDuff.3860" said:

> > > @"derd.6413" said:

> > > > @"dDuff.3860" said:

> > > > Put a 5 clones cap for a mesmer. Problem solved

> > >

> > > that'd be a buff (there's a 3 clone cap) or are you talking about phantasms?

> > Y, i mean 5 "pets" total cap. Considering clones and phantasms are mesmer's "pets"

> > Why 5? because most of AoE abilities have 5 man cap.

> >

>

> clones and phantasms are called illusions not "pets"

>

> https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Illusion

 

Not entirely true, they count as pets for certain runes for example.

[derd.6413]

> @"witcher.3197" said:

> > @"derd.6413" said:

> > > @"dDuff.3860" said:

> > > > @"derd.6413" said:

> > > > > @"dDuff.3860" said:

> > > > > Put a 5 clones cap for a mesmer. Problem solved

> > > >

> > > > that'd be a buff (there's a 3 clone cap) or are you talking about phantasms?

> > > Y, i mean 5 "pets" total cap. Considering clones and phantasms are mesmer's "pets"

> > > Why 5? because most of AoE abilities have 5 man cap.

> > >

> >

> > clones and phantasms are called illusions not "pets"

> >

> > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Illusion

>

> Not entirely true, they count as pets for certain runes for example.

 

1) couldn't find anything that backs up your claim

 

2) code uses shortcuts all the time so i wouldn't be surprised if all summons are referred to as pets in the code

[Blackdagger.9670]

> @"Absinthey.5340" said:

> Logged on for the first time in a while.

>

> Went to FFA Arena.

>

> Fought a Mesmer.

>

> Exited Game and Uninstalled Gw2.

>

> Been fun I guess o/

 

maybe we should start a movement.

**#uninstallyourgw2**

 

this is the most logical thing to do in this nonsense times.

[flog.3485]

> @"witcher.3197" said:

> > @"derd.6413" said:

> > > @"dDuff.3860" said:

> > > > @"derd.6413" said:

> > > > > @"dDuff.3860" said:

> > > > > Put a 5 clones cap for a mesmer. Problem solved

> > > >

> > > > that'd be a buff (there's a 3 clone cap) or are you talking about phantasms?

> > > Y, i mean 5 "pets" total cap. Considering clones and phantasms are mesmer's "pets"

> > > Why 5? because most of AoE abilities have 5 man cap.

> > >

> >

> > clones and phantasms are called illusions not "pets"

> >

> > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Illusion

>

> Not entirely true, they count as pets for certain runes for example.

 

Not they don’t. This has been “fixed” like 4 years ago.

[moutzaheadin.4029]

> @"Curunen.8729" said:

> > @"moutzaheadin.4029" said:

> > I find it extremely comical that these same "Mesmer mains" that are trying to defend thier overpowered specs are the SAME people that told me to adapt and lollerntoplay after anet completely dismantled Condi Chrono.

> >

> > I predicted once Condi Chrono was nerfed to rev status, that the target would zero right in on the mirage.

> >

> > Now that there is a huge Nerf target on their backs they are on the forums in full force trying to defend or give stupid suggestions.

> >

> > All I can say is .. hahahahahahahahaha

> >

> >

> >

> >

> I've already adapted to Elusive Mind and still continue to use it. I adapted to axe when they removed all confusion from it, because I love axe that much. Unlike your issue with chrono, I enjoy mirage so much thematically that it would literally have to be deleted from the game for me to stop playing it. I'm confident that no matter what happens I will find a way to enjoy mirage, because I *want* to. So all I can say is... "hahahahahaha"?

>

> Anyway I'm not defending the current state of mesmer. It needs more balancing. I do take issue with misguided emotional ranting about what is balanced or not balanced. But at the end of the day Anet will do whatever they want, players will continue to moan or laugh, and I'll be here, adapting as usual.

>

 

For every thread about anything Mesmer related , there is a post from you crying about the changes to axe. Pot meet kettle.

[Curunen.8729]

> @"moutzaheadin.4029" said:

> > @"Curunen.8729" said:

> > > @"moutzaheadin.4029" said:

> > > I find it extremely comical that these same "Mesmer mains" that are trying to defend thier overpowered specs are the SAME people that told me to adapt and lollerntoplay after anet completely dismantled Condi Chrono.

> > >

> > > I predicted once Condi Chrono was nerfed to rev status, that the target would zero right in on the mirage.

> > >

> > > Now that there is a huge Nerf target on their backs they are on the forums in full force trying to defend or give stupid suggestions.

> > >

> > > All I can say is .. hahahahahahahahaha

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > I've already adapted to Elusive Mind and still continue to use it. I adapted to axe when they removed all confusion from it, because I love axe that much. Unlike your issue with chrono, I enjoy mirage so much thematically that it would literally have to be deleted from the game for me to stop playing it. I'm confident that no matter what happens I will find a way to enjoy mirage, because I *want* to. So all I can say is... "hahahahahaha"?

> >

> > Anyway I'm not defending the current state of mesmer. It needs more balancing. I do take issue with misguided emotional ranting about what is balanced or not balanced. But at the end of the day Anet will do whatever they want, players will continue to moan or laugh, and I'll be here, adapting as usual.

> >

>

> For every thread about anything Mesmer related , there is a post from you crying about the changes to axe. Pot meet kettle.

 

Exaggeration - several threads yes, far from every thread.

 

Yes I still want confusion back on axe 3. So? Doesn't mean I throw my toys out of the pram like you did with chrono. I will still enjoy using axe unless they delete it from Mirage. If they suddenly made axe a power weapon - I'd regear for it. If they removed condi clear from EM, I'd use something else. If they reduced mirage cloak back to 0.75s I'd manage somehow.

 

Just because I don't agree with a change doesn't mean I suddenly give up on it.

[Zedek.8932]

> @"Daishi.6027" said:

> So much L2P. A good smart Thief is just as unkillable has access to the same defenses listed save for decent reflect. [...]

 

I do not play PvP because I see how bad the matchmaking is

(Team [random players I have no influence over] result = your personal rating. Such a nonsense. After 8 years of LoL, no thanks)

I often browse these threads.

 

But that is one of the BS I read in literally every game. **"A good/fed/smart [profession] can...."**

 

Yeah, really, thanks for that information. The problem is that a poor/dumb player of [OP profession] can that too.

Now combine or even multiplie the "OP'ness" of a certain profession and its potential to a good/fed/smart [OP profession] and what then? We are back at status Quo.

 

Just sayin' this logic is flawed and usually upvoted, because nobody would disagree - that would apparently mark these people "noob" then, but someone putting a bit of brain it in it should not be afraid to call your argument invalid.

 

Excelsior.

 

[Burnfall.9573]

 

**"You lose yourself trying to hold on to someone who doesn't care about losing you"**

 

 

[SteepledHat.1345]

At this point, totally overhaul mesmer. Give me back mesmer from GW1....

[Brother.1504]

Rangers should be able to summon all their pets at once. Forget this pets capping thing. Let’s go all in on ai.

[Exalted Quality.8534]

@"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" any chance mesmers are going to get toned down BEFORE the season starts? I realize this out out of step with your normal balancing cycle but mesmers are way out of hand brah. If 4-5 mesmers in every match doesn’t tell you anything...

 

It would be a travesty if you allow this circus to continue until midway through S11.

[Devilman.1532]

> @"Exalted Quality.8534" said:

> @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" any chance mesmers are going to get toned down BEFORE the season starts? I realize this out out of step with your normal balancing cycle but mesmers are way out of hand brah. If 4-5 mesmers in every match doesn’t tell you anything...

>

> It would be a travesty if you allow this circus to continue until midway through S11.

 

sadly that's the way its going to be. they have stated they aren't doing what they call "balance" other than mid season from now on.

[Burnfall.9573]

> @"SteepledHat.1345" said:

> At this point, totally overhaul mesmer. Give me back mesmer from GW1....

 

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/guild-wars-creator-leaves-ncsoft-west

 

**Learn from the people who have walked the path before you"**

[Miles Smiles.8951]

and the pinkish purple distorted animations are annoying af too

[Crab Fear.1624]

My cat told be mesmers were "**purrfectly okay**".

 

Can't argue with that.

[Daishi.6027]

> @"Legatus.3608" said:

> Basically if you were to compare thief and mesmer, they're very similar classes except for the fact that thief gives up its HP pool for the things it has, and mesmer GAINS clones instead of giving something up.

 

Oh hey, thank you for a well constructed argument. In regards to the whining, I was referring to this thread, and particularly any mesmer's who you may have considered "whining about thief". I for the most part thought thief was relatively okay.

 

Mesmer used to give up damage for clones, but clones are actually not that good. They are a Blessing and a Curse, arguably more of a curse if power which is what majority of people are complaining about.

But let me ask you, what actually does the main decent damage on a mesmer? The 1.0 coefficent on Mind stab? That's about as good as heart seeker above 50%.

Mirror blade? That does the same dmg.

The Autos that have been outclassed for years, and only since Feb mes rework have they been on par? Maybe with the might stacking?

It sure isn't illusionary leap, or Illusionary Wave. Blurred frenzy might hit hard... but it's a rooted attack and kind of better as an evade.

What about staff? Phase retreat? Chaos armor? Maybe Chaos storm?

 

The answer is Phants and Shatters supported by might and vulnerability; this is main damage source all mesmers have access too. But illusions are a resource similar to adrenaline or ini. Except killable and virtually erased via AoE, hard visual (like we don't see enemy thief ini), kite able, screwed by z axis, and frankly over all easy to doge/avoid, get screwed over by stealth, and sometimes just don't do what you need them to without prior thought and positioning. This is what mes "Gains".

Sure it has some advantages, but it's hard to argue that it's better than simple direct near instant damage that a thief has. People complain about the mesmer GS shatter burst, but thief on one set, can attempt a similar play more frequently that doesn't rely on an awkward bounce, and can do so without blowing a major tool that is part of your survivability.

 

Simply

You can beat a thief with game sense, anticipation, and good reads alone.

You can beat a mesmer with game sense, and a relatively low level of perception alone.

 

Mesmer gives up more than you think, and thief gives up base survivability for more **on demand** evade options, and then every set gets tools to directly play around opponents cooldowns. Which frankly at an optimal level of play, or the height skill ceiling is far harder to counter. So fine maybe pre patch thief was to strong and so it got nerfed.

The problem I mostly have is people arguing that the nerfs that came for mes was not enough. Where on top of hard damage number nerfs a significant amount of might stacking was cut off which is more impactful than people realize and brings it in line with the passive sustain and survivability nerfs, and corresponding damage reductions.

 

People will continue to complain about mirage's ability to doge/immune, but it's still the same few cooldowns majoirty of the cast has, and mirage unlike them uses those base doges for offensive purposes, and expends their entire pool of resources to amplify one of the cooldowns doge.

 

vigor supports some of it, but is a grand total of 3 sec per shatter unless dueling line which some of the popular builds didn't even run.

This entire thing is a farce, people will learn to counter it with enough time and it wont seem like such a big deal, just like clasic 4/4/6 power shatter from wayyy back when everyone called it OP before learning how to doge it.

 

@Zedek.8932

We don't balance around the skill floor.

Also you act like either is that hard to succeed with, anyone who puts in enough time on anything that isn’t maybe rev right now can be just as successful.

[zoopop.5630]

Dead weight if u aint got 2 mesmer on the team now days...

[zoopop.5630]

 

 

Watch the guy play the class and show you every detail. Doesn't matter what wep/traitline he'll stomp and explain why. Enjoy, hes a solid streamer and good to learn from!

 

fyi he doesn't even main mesmer......

[Legatus.3608]

> @"Daishi.6027" said:

> > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > Basically if you were to compare thief and mesmer, they're very similar classes except for the fact that thief gives up its HP pool for the things it has, and mesmer GAINS clones instead of giving something up.

>

> Sure it has some advantages, but it's hard to argue that it's better than simple direct near instant damage that a thief has. People complain about the mesmer GS shatter burst, but thief on one set, can attempt a similar play more frequently that doesn't rely on an awkward bounce, and can do so without blowing a major tool that is part of your survivability.

>

> The problem I mostly have is people arguing that the nerfs that came for mes was not enough. Where on top of hard damage number nerfs a significant amount of might stacking was cut off which is more impactful than people realize and brings it in line with the passive sustain and survivability nerfs, and corresponding damage reductions.

>

> People will continue to complain about mirage's ability to doge/immune, but it's still the same few cooldowns majoirty of the cast has, and mirage unlike them uses those base doges for offensive purposes, and expends their entire pool of resources to amplify one of the cooldowns doge.

>

> vigor supports some of it, but is a grand total of 3 sec per shatter unless dueling line which some of the popular builds didn't even run.

> This entire thing is a farce, people will learn to counter it with enough time and it wont seem like such a big deal, just like clasic 4/4/6 power shatter from wayyy back when everyone called it OP before learning how to doge it.

 

Blowing your survivability, well I disagree with that completely. It's true in a direct sense - clones contribute to your survivability because it creates more confusion and more targets to tab through for your opponents. But it's not true in the grand picture, the clones you lost cost you almost nothing. In the worst case you were relying on the clones to confuse your opponent and they didn't, in the best case the clone wasn't confusing anyone and you shattered it. The passive damage from it is basically irrelevant - the main purpose of that clone in your build is to be shattered and it does relatively little outside of that role or the role of confusing your opponent. You will simply spam more clones, and you have enough evasion to not worry about losing those clones to begin with. They are, like I said, merely a free bonus for being a mesmer on top of all those defenses where thief lost a ton of HP and teamfight capability to get those evades.

[apharma.3741]

> @"zoopop.5630" said:

> Dead weight if u aint got 2 mesmer on the team now days...

 

 

I guess carried by Frosty?

 

Edit: Dunno if the link works as on tablet but it’s Teapots AT vs double mesmer.

 

Spoiler: double mesmer didn’t win.

[bravan.3876]

The next footage of a mesmer killing some insane noobs ignoring him most of the time. Nice free kills he would get with every class he don't even main. NA offseason unranked i guess? I am not one of the ppl saying mesmer don't have op builds but the one he is using is not one of them and this footage proves nothing except what is common since 2012: Powershatter is the best in rekting newbies and bad player.

 

Greetings from not a mesmer main

[Aza.2105]

> @"bravan.3876" said:

>Powershatter is the best in rekting newbies and bad player.

 

Nah, the ai clutter paired with extremely high damage and defense is a bit too much. I understand, that after playing GW2 for so long you begin to appreciate its imbalance and consider it normal.

 

In short, your perception is clouded.

 

 

[bravan.3876]

> @"Aza.2105" said:

> > @"bravan.3876" said:

> >Powershatter is the best in rekting newbies and bad player.

>

> Nah, the ai clutter paired with extremely high damage and defense is a bit too much. I understand, that after playing GW2 for so long you begin to appreciate its imbalance and consider it normal.

>

> In short, your perception is clouded.

>

>

The build he is playing has barely more illusion at same time up than a core mesmer in 2012 and is not based on phantasm spam. When you have problems with a focus offhand playing pure glass shatter mirage without any passive sustain than i have no words.

 

[OriOri.8724]

> @"bravan.3876" said:

> > @"Aza.2105" said:

> > > @"bravan.3876" said:

> > >Powershatter is the best in rekting newbies and bad player.

> >

> > Nah, the ai clutter paired with extremely high damage and defense is a bit too much. I understand, that after playing GW2 for so long you begin to appreciate its imbalance and consider it normal.

> >

> > In short, your perception is clouded.

> >

> >

> The build he is playing has barely more illusion at same time up than a core mesmer in 2012 and is not based on phantasm spam. When you have problems with a focus offhand playing pure glass shatter mirage without any passive sustain than i have no words.

>

 

but he mesmer, he OP

[Saiyan.1704]

Core guard > mesmer.

 

We replace Engi's now.