After Mesmer revamp, what class is next?

[Julius Seizure.4985]

I was wondering if Anet could divulge what class would be next for a revamp.

 

I think that in a vacuum the Mesmer revamp was wonderful— it made the class considerably easier to play and much more intuitive. The problem was that Mesmer was already S-tier in all 3 game modes before this, and the revamp ended up creating a balance debacle because outside of the vacuum the Mesmer was already in a great position. I am hoping that despite this situation, that other classes are currently being worked on/improved.

 

# Circling back to other professions that could use a revamp, and are NOT already top tier in all 3 game modes:

 

1. Revenant has needed its energy system finally made into a proper mechanic. Right now it is a counterintuitive mechanic that still relies on recharge for skills. The class is also underwhelming in PvP specifically.

2. Engineer kits have not aged well with the game, and this entire class seems the most closely tied to the outdated field combo system. This has lead to a situation where so many possible builds for Engineer are very underwhelming, and with the weapon swap mechanic being replaced with underperforming kits the class has languished a bit as elite specs have come out.

3. Necromancer has a great many issues, most notable of which is a core-Necromancer shroud that has been terrible since launch. Given the performance of Scourge it would be easy to ignore, but power builds and core-Necromancer shroud still suffer significantly.

 

[zealex.9410]

I dont think mesmer was made easier to play. I mean u couldmt get easier than pre rework dps mesmer.

[sorudo.9054]

I still hate the initiative system of the thief and that since launch, i rather have a reward-punish system where you chain skills together but when you fail the chain skills have a small recharge penalty.

 

Engineers should really have weapon swap when no kits are used, it now depends way to much on kits but they simply suck, not to mention that the engineer barely has any way to survive on their own and skills that makes a revenant look good.......

 

Rangers need a skill change on some weapons, the longbow barely does any damage and shortbows are pretty much kamikaze weapons, it needs a change and a good buff.

[Rhyse.8179]

Necromancer has been the Nerfbat practice dummy of choice since launch. It's high time it got some attention. It has some great and unrealized gameplay potential and deserves more than 5 years of "almost competitive". Of all the classes, it's been in the Pit Of Despair the longest, and is probably the most deserving.

 

Revenant, however, is easily the worst off. It's locked into a handful of cookie cutter specs due to it's inflexible design, and most of those specs are terrible in every way. Of the ones that work, they only approach mediocre. Necro has more pedigree, but Revenant has the most need.

 

While every class has troubles, those two are by far the most in need. None of the others even compares.

[Bast.7253]

They sort of did a rework to sword for rev but I kind of miss the old skills. New ones are hard to land. They need to fix spirits though. If they’re going to be stationary wells they need to be like scourge shades or a lot more powerful with less energy cost or a lot longer durations.

 

Scourge would be impossible to rework at this point. I think that one just wasn’t quite thought out for pvp and wvw. They wanted it to be support but instead they made it necro on steroids. Lol

[Ardid.7203]

- Revenant is the first in the list for emergency treatment, no doubt.

- Engineer is the close second without compare, either. Current traits, weapons, utilities and kits lack most synergy, whole utility types remain unusable, the core profession is not viable to use, there is almost no build diversity. As if this wasn't enough, there is still a lot of huge bugs preventing people to play a decent game.

- Necro has a lot of problems, but you can still have decent build diversity and choice, where some builds even qualify as OP. Playing Necro doesn't stops you from enjoying the game as it often happens with Rev and Engie.

[TexZero.7910]

My bias toward engineer aside.....

 

Rev definitely needs a re-tooling. Basing its functionality off engineer caused some really bad design choices.

 

[Zola.6197]

Rev is in most dire need. Like...especially moving into underwater zones. It’s really bad.

[Oldirtbeard.9834]

Necromancer, Reaper needs another tweak in DPS or added group utility.

[Hyper Cutter.9376]

The only thing revenant really needs is for Anet to stop making them double-dip on resources by having all their skills use energy _and_ cooldowns. Maybe make weapon skills use energy while utility skills have cooldowns, or vice versa like a reverse thief, or do it on a per skill basis, whatever. Just pick one.

 

> @"cptaylor.2670" said:

> Scourge would be impossible to rework at this point. I think that one just wasn’t quite thought out for pvp and wvw. They wanted it to be support but instead they made it necro on steroids. Lol

It was designed with PVP/WvW in mind, because its whole thing is countering boon spam (which is rampant in PVP/WvW but largely negligible in PVE). Spellbreaker's the same way.

 

> @"Svennis.3852" said:

> Rev is in most dire need. Like...especially moving into underwater zones. It’s really bad.

Revenant is good underwater, it gets the only legends you really need for underwater combat and has one of the better-designed underwater weapons.

[Crinn.7864]

> @"Oldirtbeard.9834" said:

> Necromancer, Reaper needs another tweak in DPS or added group utility.

 

Reaper is fine. The problem is that base necro is crap.

[Zola.6197]

@"Hyper Cutter.9376" Perhaps, but depending on your build it runs the risk of virtually ceasing to exist underwater.

[Rhatha.2376]

As much as I'd like to say necro first, because it's still my second most played so I'm very familiar with its problems, with a larger scale rework, revenant by far.

[Palador.2170]

I too have to say that Revenant is in dire need of a rework. This includes allowing the use of racial skills and the Mistfire Wolf.

[Lunateric.3708]

I have a big bias towards Engineer since the only reason it sees plays in any content that isn't faceroll easy is called **Holosmith**, Scrapper is still plagued with bugs, base engi got shot down pretty hard, even every Holo variant that is worth talking about is pure power.

 

I also agree Revenant does need some extreme polishing but to be perfectly honest with you guys, I doubt they have planned major reworks for every class.

[Julius Seizure.4985]

> @"Lunateric.3708" said:

> I have a big bias towards Engineer since the only reason it sees plays in any content that isn't faceroll easy is called **Holosmith**, Scrapper is still plagued with bugs, base engi got shot down pretty hard, even every Holo variant that is worth talking about is pure power.

>

> I also agree Revenant does need some extreme polishing but to be perfectly honest with you guys, I doubt they have planned major reworks for every class.

 

I agree. I doubt they plan to rework every class, but every class doesn’t need it. (In fact, Mesmer probably should have been near the bottom of the list.)

 

Regardless, I do think that some classes need revamp-level attention and am curious if the developers feel the same.

[Ardenwolfe.8590]

I find the question itself telling. Very . . . telling.

[Vova.2640]

> @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > @"Oldirtbeard.9834" said:

> > Necromancer, Reaper needs another tweak in DPS or added group utility.

>

> Reaper is fine. The problem is that base necro is crap.

 

The bigger issue is that scourge outclasses reaper in every way...

[Bast.7253]

> @"Hyper Cutter.9376" said:

> The only thing revenant really needs is for Anet to stop making them double-dip on resources by having all their skills use energy _and_ cooldowns. Maybe make weapon skills use energy while utility skills have cooldowns, or vice versa like a reverse thief, or do it on a per skill basis, whatever. Just pick one.

>

> > @"cptaylor.2670" said:

> > Scourge would be impossible to rework at this point. I think that one just wasn’t quite thought out for pvp and wvw. They wanted it to be support but instead they made it necro on steroids. Lol

> It was designed with PVP/WvW in mind, because its whole thing is countering boon spam (which is rampant in PVP/WvW but largely negligible in PVE). Spellbreaker's the same way.

>

> > @"Svennis.3852" said:

> > Rev is in most dire need. Like...especially moving into underwater zones. It’s really bad.

> Revenant is good underwater, it gets the only legends you really need for underwater combat and has one of the better-designed underwater weapons.

 

True, but necro has always had a lot of boon corruption hasn't it? I remember playing a boon-corruption reaper build in HoT but never played base necro. Kind of just a necro-specific thing regardless of which elite you choose.

 

[Zenith.7301]

> @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > @"Oldirtbeard.9834" said:

> > Necromancer, Reaper needs another tweak in DPS or added group utility.

>

> Reaper is fine. The problem is that base necro is crap.

 

Greatsword reaper is far from fine. The weapon is hot garbage compared to guardian and warrior GS. On top of the useless shouts.

 

Then you have a bunch of worthless traits with very little DPS contribution in its traitline. The adept trait tier is garbage, shivers of dread is garbage, and reaper's onslaught is as bad as reaper shroud is in PvE still.

[Asum.4960]

I really would like to see a Necro rework at this point (or really, since a good 3 years at least).

 

While a lot of professions are in need of a update to their core, and I'm hoping for this to happen every single expansion to all of them, Necromancer just has to many weakpoints at this point, especially when it comes to PvE.

 

Engie and Rev, while suffering from plenty problems have very much so viable specs in most, if not all gamemodes, especially with the Holosmith and both Renegade and Herald have a place somewhere.

Necromancer on the other hand is just the Epidemic button in high end PvE content, as the only thing propping them up to not be completely forgotten as a profession, and in PvP modes Necromancer is a corruption bot, which while fine now, won't be enough if they keep nerfing that aspect of Necro every patch, since there is nothing else to the profession once that part is to weak, or the game will shift to have less boon spam. As soon as something else comes around that can fill a ranged anti boon pressure/area denial role, it will be dropped immediately.

 

For no other profession than Necro do I hear from people how much they like the theme and would like to play it regularly, but can't because it's just to far behind in almost every aspect other than as boon spam meta counter, which only matters in certain parts of the game.

 

Comparing core Necro traits to for example core Warrior traits is actually sad to a point where you can just laugh about how awful Necro is at this point, with Warrior minors sometimes feeling stronger than most Necro Grandmasters.

 

In addition to that, I still feel Anet needs to introduce a need for a debuffer role in PvE. Adding boons (and abilities and attacks that reapply them) to enemies across the board, while making conditions like Vulnerability an actual mechanic, favouring professions like Necro heavily in how much they can apply.

 

Perma 25 Might, Vuln and all the other stuff should not be the default state for any even half decent group. Groups should have to work for that or ebb and flow, and there should be more build diversity for content like fractals and raids, where you have to make choices if you want more boon removal, more stable Might, Vuln, Fury etc uptime, or things like Banners and group stat buff traits, which should lead to very similar DPS, while making more builds and professions viable.

 

Healer, Buffer, DPS, BS (DPS Support) and Debuffer as the default 5 man group would grant a lot of professions a spot in the meta, and I believe ArenaNet could work from that 5 role template to balance much more easily than currently.

 

(With special roles like kiter always having a spot for raids, as roles are less contested in 10 man content)