Deadeye in WVW - time well spent?

[Doo Lally.8594]

Yes, the subject line poses a subjective question but it's an honest one in that I'd like to know what current Deadeyes enjoy about playing that spec in WvW.

 

I sometimes roam on my S/D Daredevil. I'm not very good but it can be an enjoyable break from zerging. However, it takes longer to gain experience, Pips, reward track xp etc.

 

Deadeye gameplay is all about setup, stealth and patience. Surely it takes a considerable amount of time to amass any XP or other rewards (yup - assuming you play for rewards which I know many hardcore WvW'ers profess not to).

 

I'd like to try out Deadeye in WvW but am concerned I'd be spending 90% of my time twiddling my thumbs trying to stay hidden or chasing a single enemy across the map without much to show for it.

 

Anyway, I'd like to hear your thoughts on this.

 

Cheers.

[kash.9213]

> @"Doo Lally.8594" said:

> Yes, the subject line poses a subjective question but it's an honest one in that I'd like to know what current Deadeyes enjoy about playing that spec in WvW.

>

> I sometimes roam on my S/D Daredevil. I'm not very good but it can be an enjoyable break from zerging. However, it takes longer to gain experience, Pips, reward track xp etc.

>

> **Deadeye gameplay is all about setup, stealth and patience.** Surely it takes a considerable amount of time to amass any XP or other rewards (yup - assuming you play for rewards which I know many hardcore WvW'ers profess not to).

>

> I'd like to try out Deadeye in WvW but am concerned I'd be spending 90% of my time twiddling my thumbs trying to stay hidden or chasing a single enemy across the map without much to show for it.

>

> Anyway, I'd like to hear your thoughts on this.

>

> Cheers.

 

Not sure I ever have time for setup, stealth, patience all together unless in truncated form but I do enjoy the feel and animations of most of the deadeye features and I think it has a good flow in general for the duration of most fights given how well it tethers in and out of range, Deaths Retreat is a major reason for that. I also like the choices of build even without changing trait lines, I can go full single target power with the same trait lines as my squad support build by just changing a few traits. It can be a great setup build but it's also run and gun.

[MUDse.7623]

i was already playing with SA as daredevil as it is simple OP in 1 vs X as stealth will interrupt skill spamm of most players and even tho it is IMO weaker in 1 vs 1, outside of duels any opponent was still doable using the envoirement and the element of suprise. as i had SA ofc i also was able to permastealth and used it to stay inside keeps/towers and flip them back or farm scouts as they will keep comming back - they dont want to lose it. dont chase a bag if you can make them come to you. one major issue i allways had was anti stealth traps as they are not dodgeable. now if you are build to have your main defense in stealth and then you get revealed for a long duration in 1 vs 10+ inside enemy keep its pretty much game over. depening on where it was and how many opponents i was able to deal with 1-2 traps using shadowtrap teleports. the main reason i started playing deadeye was because of shadow meld, after i first thought DE is super weak. but on a day on wich i ran into like 50 of those anti stealth traps many open field i tried deadeye.

 

deadeye is a very predictable opponent therefore many people are able to avoid dying to you if you think you can just mark, stack a bit of stealth and shoot. but as a hit is often lethal to your opponent you still can bait your opponent to take the hit. killing people who cant avoid DE oneshots is pretty boring to me, but tricking someone to take the hit, who usually is able to react to the shot is fun to me.

you are basically fighting the player not the class as the class matters little , sure some got better options to counter preassure after a failed shot but as long as you hit, the player you face is of higher importance. i really like to kill people who think themselves to be super highskilled, hard to descripe how you spot those but if you roamed long enough you can spot them by their moving and actions, most of them assume you to be a bad player and generally stupid for playing deadeye and will be rather arrogant in the way they approach you the first time. when killed they come back to show you that it was just luck because mommy called or whatever. really takes them quite a while and may deaths till they realize the deadeye might not be as stupid as assumed, at that point you often get interesting whispers.

if the deadeye is good, his opponent will need to bait the deadeye to kill him, so the fight a good deadeye vs a good X is mainly about who can bait the other into a bad position, neither can force his opponent ( ok there are some exceptions on openfield against some builds. e.g. against any type of nekro, the deadeye should allways win if there is no LoS option). there are very few people who understand this and are able to play this, most still try to rely on mechanical skill wich wont get you far in that fight or call allies and make it a battle of endurance, who falls asleep first by not giving you a reason to attack. why would you attack one if you see his mates are ressurecting faster then you can stomp? or obviously dancing around an anti stealth trap is also something you might encounter often, just trigger it while precasting shadow meld and /laugh.

i do think it is interesting to see the development in the reaction of your opponents over the week. if you encounter the same person every day, the days before will have left their mark.

if you want to impress your opponent and your mates with your mechanical 'skill', you should keep playing s/d or whatevery you fancy, DE wont grant you much respect or credit as it is not needed to have alot of mechanical skill altho clever use of action cam, esc canceling DJ etc can get you a few more kills but the main quality you need is the ability to bait your opponent, you need to read them. any opponent were you dont need that, is a bad opponent or a nekro.

 

deadeye is IMO on of or the most efficient solo roamer overall PPT ( king in stealth capping) + PPK ( no real hardcounter ) , which alone would already be a reason for me to play it and it is to me fun to watch my opponents go crazy.

 

 

[Doo Lally.8594]

Ty to you both. I appreciate you taking the time to respond.

 

I may try it out. Most of the deaths will be my own over the next few days but I can live with that

[saerni.2584]

You can also play a condi Deadeye which does not stack stealth forever. Both are viable options in WvW.

 

Permastealth Deadeye won’t need to roam as much also as you can pick static points to defend and pick people off who come to you. You generally won’t need to chase people.

[Turk.5460]

> @"Doo Lally.8594" said:

> Yes, the subject line poses a subjective question but it's an honest one in that I'd like to know what current Deadeyes enjoy about playing that spec in WvW.

> ...

> Deadeye gameplay is all about setup, stealth and patience. Surely it takes a considerable amount of time to amass any XP or other rewards (yup - assuming you play for rewards which I know many hardcore WvW'ers profess not to).

 

Setup, stealth, and patience are only privy to one build (or slight variation thereof, really). I use a very effective non-stealth (only access is 2x 3s from Shadow Meld) Rifle build that doesn't use Kneel *at all*. There are also a few melee builds that focus on D/P or S/P that are plenty viable. I don't make videos, but if you want to see the non-stealth Rifle playstyle you can watch videos uploaded by @"AikijinX.6258"

[Doo Lally.8594]

> @"Turk.5460" said:

...........

>

> Setup, stealth, and patience are only privy to one build (or slight variation thereof, really). I use a very effective non-stealth (only access is 2x 3s from Shadow Meld) Rifle build that doesn't use Kneel *at all*. There are also a few melee builds that focus on D/P or S/P that are plenty viable. I don't make videos, but if you want to see the non-stealth Rifle playstyle you can watch videos uploaded by @"AikijinX.6258"

 

Ooooo - I'll check that out. Much appreciated.

[Doo Lally.8594]

So I gave Deadeye a go last evening in EBG. Apart from my finger mashing on unfamiliar keybinds I found it to be fairly enjoyable in 2-8 man party play whilst defending a camp. Got a few kills and managed to stay alive.

 

What I did observe is that it's a pretty safe spec to get out of any trouble on - especially the stealth variant, with multiple access to both stealth and disengages. When in trouble I always managed to sneak away to fight another day. I also noted the anxiety that applying the 'mark' generates in enemies - almost without fail they immediately run or disengage themselves. Certainly interesting from a psychological warfare viewpoint.

 

Thank you to everyone for your replies.

[MUDse.7623]

> @"Doo Lally.8594" said:

> So I gave Deadeye a go last evening in EBG. Apart from my finger mashing on unfamiliar keybinds I found it to be fairly enjoyable in 2-8 man party play whilst defending a camp. Got a few kills and managed to stay alive.

>

> What I did observe is that it's a pretty safe spec to get out of any trouble on - especially the stealth variant, with multiple access to both stealth and disengages. When in trouble I always managed to sneak away to fight another day. I also noted the anxiety that applying the 'mark' generates in enemies - almost without fail they immediately run or disengage themselves. Certainly interesting from a psychological warfare viewpoint.

>

> Thank you to everyone for your replies.

 

glad you enjoyed your first evening as DE.

tho especially stealth heavy variant is not really good for group play as you have compared to other builds really low frontloaded preassure and you do not take preassure from your allies as noone will focus you in a group fight while you are stealthed. when playing solo your opponents actions are also only influenced by you, so you got a lot more control over what your opponent will do. so id advise you to try that stealth variant solo or a non stealthy build for group play :D

[Kallist.5917]

Building Malice takes a lot less time than people think it does, dont hide in stealth, use it. Your stealth shot converts boons, and you have the fastest re-stealth in the game, an Immobilize on your gun as well as a 3 second knock down cantrip.

[MUDse.7623]

> @"Kallist.5917" said:

> Your stealth shot converts boons

that one many people seem to underestimate as it is also unblockable and does tons of damage. i killed people cycling through blocks and reflects with just 'spamming' cursed bullet.

 

[Turk.5460]

> @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > @"Kallist.5917" said:

> > Your stealth shot converts boons

> that one many people seem to underestimate as it is also unblockable and does tons of damage. i killed people cycling through blocks and reflects with just 'spamming' cursed bullet.

>

 

Regularly hits upwards of 5k for me. Which is pretty darn good given its corrupt/unblockable.

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

I tend to only run stealth heavy DE if conditions are being spammed and there's lots of enemies (plus I'm not a fan of D/P in general) or I'm forced to gank, otherwise I run tanky (dura runes plus toughness trinkets) acro S/D rifle deadeye. Still have enough damage to quickly down anything that isn't full tank, I have unblockable strikes on both sets and I'm not just thief bait that way.

 

The bonus offensive stats from deadeye give you quite a lot of flexibility build wise (I still have 3k+ power with full buffs, quickness and the might from revealed malice) so it's worth playing around with and seeing what you like the feel of.

[Doo Lally.8594]

Thanks to all - I really appreciate your input.

[Ouranoz.9275]

If you want to play Deadeye build that doesn't rely on stealth and waiting, I run a sword/dagger deadeye built around quickness and interrupts. (see linked build)

 

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAsYVn0MBNGjFOBmOBUGjldCzbKEFuCbBgaTbifWuLDmA-jlCFQBIRJFAeAAJR5S72fIN6B43JAQdHBQTg+U/ZBHCgLqEMAACwOrzG9oBO6RP6RP6RrRzoZ0je0AA-w

 

P.S you can swap leadership for Pack or Strength, I just prefer the boon duration combined with Condi clear to better handle scourges.

 

basically, you use your mark, sword 2 and then auto attack with quickness using Flanking strike to avoid any big hits then port back if needed. Alternatively, if you need to play it more carefully you can mark for 1 interrupt and then use the stolen object to interrupt again. This build can also quite quickly reach 25 might combined with Be quick or be killed can create some big hits.

 

I've had a lot of success with this build barely losing to anything 1V1.

 

Again, it's just a different way to play deadeye if you don't enjoy sitting in stealth.

[Doo Lally.8594]

As an observation after testing out Deadeye over the last few nights - how do you cope with the slowness of getting from A to B? I'm used to running classes that have easier access to the 25% speed increase and classes that have little access to it seem painfully slow in getting to the fights.

 

I have been swapping out the signet that gives a 25% increase when running but that seems a bit clunky (and can catch you out if you get engaged while running it).

 

I understand that as a stealth variant it's unimportant - you camp or stalk certain areas but in general what tips would you give?

 

Again - I appreciate all the replies.

[kash.9213]

You get can get extra speed in stealth from SA traits and you can get swiftness by dodging in Acro line but a lot of thieves carry shortbow for shortbow 5 and you just learn how to pace your initiative. Deaths Retreat has been my most used skill lately since I use that to bounce across a map but I have to pace that one also so I'm not left dry if I run into a fight.

[Fallesafe.5932]

If you're already a good and experienced PvPer, who doesn't care about rewards, experience, pips, etc... you may settle easily into deadeye, and find it fun. If you're not a particularly good/experienced PvPer who **does** need to finish reward tracks etc, dont waste your time.

 

I just got into WvW. And I'm the 2nd sort of player. I already had a power daredevil with all BiS equipment. So I needed to do WvW for a gift of battle and tons of Spirit shards. And I thought, "let me try a deadeye. I won't even have to change my equipment/stats." One week later, I just gave up and rolled a scourge.

 

I found that maintaining stealth was relatively easy. But once I picked a mark, everything just went to hell.

 

1) Heartseeker suddenly only worked in the direction of my mark.

2) Seven stacks of malice take forever to build.

3) Kneel could no longer be spammed as part of my stealth rotation (because I had to actually save/use it).

4) There's a short time limit on using your malice stacks once they're built.

5) If somebody is on the run, you can't easily keep up with them.

6) The damage is garbage anyway. After all that work (with maxed out berserker stats), I **never** had one deaths judgement hit for more than 15k.

7) Every little anthill and irregularity in the terrain is a LoS issue.

8) You'll lose lots of shots to "out of range."

9) And the experience, rewards, pips, etc could not possibly come any slower unless you just afk in the starting base.

 

 

Now granted, this is coming from a bottom-of-the-barrel, WvW noob. But I found this class incredibly hard to play as a first time WvWer. I wouldn't recommend it unless you're already pretty good, and just doing it for the love of the game-mode/class.

 

[MUDse.7623]

> @"Fallesafe.5932" said:

> 1) Heartseeker suddenly only worked in the direction of my mark.

if you have autotargetting or a something targeted, the heartseeker will aim at the target - mark doesnt affect this.

> 3) Kneel could no longer be spammed as part of my stealth rotation (because I had to actually save/use it).

if you switch off your rifle while keeping up stealth and in combat, use all charges as you will have one ready next time you come back to rifle.

> 4) There's a short time limit on using your malice stacks once they're built.

how is that? you can remark your target now and dont lose stacks, if you need the boons you can quickly do some traitswap to reapply them. if you are stealth camping you should be out of combat anyway so should be able to do that.

> 6) The damage is garbage anyway. After all that work (with maxed out berserker stats), I **never** had one deaths judgement hit for more than 15k.

ok here there must be something wrong about your build or the targets you shoot at. i just sniped the opposing commander in WvW for 27k and i doubt he was a glasscannon.

> Now granted, this is coming from a bottom-of-the-barrel, WvW noob. But I found this class incredibly hard to play as a first time WvWer. I wouldn't recommend it unless you're already pretty good, and just doing it for the love of the game-mode/class.

>

IMO stealth deadeye is probably the easiest way for a new player to get into roaming because you can play it extremly safe. doing that you wont really get many kills, but with time comes experience and you will become better and learn the weaknesses of every other build and common player behaviour by observing ( you got tons of time watching what your opponents do, while you are in stealth) and might be able to play more aggressive. to start you only need to know how to stay in stealth while in combat, you can train that safely in pve if you like. pressing DJ with assassins signet shouldnt be too hard to learn and then you slowly learn to keep an eye on your surroundings, when to attack, how to bait defenses or abuse the field of view and so on till you finally become a nightmare to your opponent. if you start roaming on most of the other classes/builds you will mainly start with instant dying alot in current roaming meta, not sure you can learn something that way.

but to genrally get into WvW you might start with a easy class in the blob.

 

[Fallesafe.5932]

> @"MUDse.7623"

 

That's actually a lot of great info, thank you! I definitely plan on returning to this class sometime. I love the concept of it. More than anything, I just got frustrated bc I needed to finish 4 reward tracks, and I was getting absolutely nowhere. ;)

[Turk.5460]

> @"Doo Lally.8594" said:

> As an observation after testing out Deadeye over the last few nights - how do you cope with the slowness of getting from A to B? I'm used to running classes that have easier access to the 25% speed increase and classes that have little access to it seem painfully slow in getting to the fights.

>

> I have been swapping out the signet that gives a 25% increase when running but that seems a bit clunky (and can catch you out if you get engaged while running it).

>

> I understand that as a stealth variant it's unimportant - you camp or stalk certain areas but in general what tips would you give?

>

> Again - I appreciate all the replies.

 

Find an ambient creature or neutral monster - Mark (if you have thrill of the crime traited), spam Skirmisher's Shot (Rifle 2 - gives swiftness).

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

> @"Doo Lally.8594" said:

> As an observation after testing out Deadeye over the last few nights - how do you cope with the slowness of getting from A to B? I'm used to running classes that have easier access to the 25% speed increase and classes that have little access to it seem painfully slow in getting to the fights.

>

> I have been swapping out the signet that gives a 25% increase when running but that seems a bit clunky (and can catch you out if you get engaged while running it).

>

> I understand that as a stealth variant it's unimportant - you camp or stalk certain areas but in general what tips would you give?

>

> Again - I appreciate all the replies.

 

When you play in WvW, you don't really stick to one build. In my case, I have a utility slot that I rotate depending on what I'm doing or want to do. To get to point A to point B, I switch my Stun Break to Signet of Shadows to get that 25% run speed. Then before engaging, I switch it back to stun break or venom, it depends. The other two utility skills I bring are staples.

 

The same concept when it comes to traits. Sometimes, Trickery is the best pick over Shadow Arts, especially with a zerg. As well as weapons, P/P vs Rifle, D/D vs P/D, etc. You need to be versatile in WvW.

[Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497]

> @"Doo Lally.8594" said:

> Yes, the subject line poses a subjective question but it's an honest one in that I'd like to know what current Deadeyes enjoy about w1aplaying that spec in WvW.

>

> I sometimes roam on my S/D Daredevil. I'm not very good but it can be an enjoyable break from zerging. However, it takes longer to gain experience, Pips, reward track xp etc.

>

> Deadeye gameplay is all about setup, stealth and patience. Surely it takes a considerable amount of time to amass any XP or other rewards (yup - assuming you play for rewards which I know many hardcore WvW'ers profess not to).

>

> I'd like to try out Deadeye in WvW but am concerned I'd be spending 90% of my time twiddling my thumbs trying to stay hidden or chasing a single enemy across the map without much to show for it.

>

> Anyway, I'd like to hear your thoughts on this.

>

> Cheers.

 

When you take time to get good at Deadeye like the rest of us. You'll come to learn that the setup is hardly ever something that takes forever.

 

Deadeye is fun in both ranged combat and as a core thief build. I've never had a problem chasing an enemy down and killing them, even if they decided to run. I've rarely sat around for 7-10seconds hidden to charge up my malice. I just go in man. And I go in hard. In fact, it's generally easier to just go in on a player the moment you mark them instead of waiting for the full malice. Why? Because you're not giving them a chance to react and you're forcing everything onto cool down before that moment you start hitting like a god dang freight train going FTL.

 

When WvWing... I usually take a melee heavy build. And this is going to sound odd, but I will generally take Acrobatics, and Trickery, or Acrobatics and Shadow Arts. Acrobatics is particularly nice because it undos some of the damage caused by thief's most recent absurd nerfs (Thanks ANET).

 

I'm a very in your face sort of person. Shadow Arts provides a massive amount of well needed survivability for Core Thief and Deadeye, that it's honestly worth taking over critical strikes. When you combine it with Trickery or Shadow Arts and take Iron sights it becomes very hard for other people to even duel you.

 

So... If I'm not doing a lot of damage to ruin their day... they're not doing a lot of damage to me, and I am recovering health periodically while their damage is reduced against me by 15% or more.

 

Killing blows and kiting is usually done with rifle. Unfortunately, thief is not intended to do sustained fighting. Yet that's where the current meta is leaning towards. And you'll feel it in this build if you do not ration your initiative. There's still a special place in the salt mines for who ever thought of these most recent thief changes.

[JakeG.9620]

My experience with deadeye in WvW is walking to somewhere and then getting one shotted by the deadeye. Not really fun, in my opinion :p

[babazhook.6805]

While I tend to mostly solo roam (or in small groups) I find that IF in a larger fight DE (with rifle) fares better then the DD or core builds. IE if defending a Keep when the enemy on the Lord the ranged damage allows you to stay out of the meat of the enemy group where all of those Circles are and your steal still usable. You can roam the periphery , select out targets and wreck them. DJ not needed here. Indeed very often I will use DJ on the just downed target as this will often finish the target before a rez can be attempted. As you pop in and out of stealth using bursts/skirmishers etc members of the enemy group will often break away from their group to give chase , this making them easier to single out and eliminate. In such instances I rarely use Kneel skills. it fire and move with skils 2+3 and sometimes 4.

 

Kneel skills I will generally use when away from the enemy wherein I have a height advantag such as the platforms or walls where you get a bit of time to setup your attack and or break off if they decide to come at you.

 

1v1 I rarely kneel unless I came upon an enemy unnoticed and can get a shot off (TRB) out of hiding.

 

The concept of the MARK helps make the build more immersive. It not required you attack your mark. Very often in a group fight i will lose track of the mark and switch off targets without mark reset. Again two round and three round burst can hit plenty hard. What I DO like is watching that person marked react. They will randomly dodge , run around seemingly aimless and very often just STOP fighting as they go into defensive mode. This gives the "feel" of a sniper to the build more then anything. (Snipers used to be able to pin down large groups of enemies just by their presence on the field. No one wanted to be the guy to stick his head up to see where the sniper was or to fire aimlessly in a given direction). Tha the other side HATES the DE is fine. They like them when they on their side.