Allow teams to ban one class they don't want to fight in PVP.

[FyzE.3472]

> @"bravan.3876" said:

> > @"FyzE.3472" said:

> > > @"bravan.3876" said:

> > > > @"FyzE.3472" said:

> > > > > @"bravan.3876" said:

> > > > > Lmao ofc much better solution than just a at least semi good balance... and even if the balance would be ok, 99% of all player in gw2 are very not so good and would vote for very not so smart stuff (like very not so good ppl hate mesmer even when it was underpowered) you rly wanna let them vote in ranked and forbid ppl to play the class they like (and maybe the only class they can play) in a casual game? Trump Wars 2 inc

> > > >

> > > > When Mesmer was underpowered again?

> > >

> > > Pre Hot the pure glass shattermes (the only build back then even considered to use in pvp) was not viable for itself, it was only used by teams with a godlike player for this build and even than only because of portal (and a good stealthgank synergy with thieves when there were no bruiser able to just kite on safe spots instead standing afk on point to cap home as fast as possible and wait for the oneshot out of stealth). In the moment the mesmer/thief paintrain got countered by ppl just wait at home on a safe spot this was history in high lvl pvp with coordinated teams or decent bruiser in high ranked. Pure class shatter mes had no single good matchup (that is still the same btw only rev is an exception, that is why phantasm spam builds, bunker or condibuilds were meta since hot and never a pure glass shattermesmer). Pre Hot mesmer only had the pure glass shattermes build and that was not viable in terms of being good by itself. "Mesmer is not viable but i am" - Helseth pre hot.

> >

> > So, if I understood correctly, what you are saying is, the worst state masmer ever had was when he was still playable as a roamer/decaper with portal and thief synergyes? And the only way to counter that back then was by staying in your home. Right?

>

> Lol wus? The way to counter a thief/mesmer paintrain in particular in the start is a bruiser you cannot beat as a thief or mesmer solo and who just wait on a safe spot near the close point until mesmer/thief drop out of stealth and need to re-rotate because they can't do anything at far anymore. I'm surprised and worried, that you don't know that yourself... o-O

> Still without a portal you wouldn't have seen a single mesmer in high lvl pvp pre hot. And even now a pure glass shattermes is not viable except for killing (oneshotting) some very not so good player in low ranks or in NA.

 

I started playing mid HoT. And it's a bit hart toimagine stuff only from a typed description :) But thanks for the explanation. Really helped me. Some people say that mesmer was NEVER bad. Now I know :)

[bravan.3876]

> @"FyzE.3472" said:

> > @"bravan.3876" said:

> > > @"FyzE.3472" said:

> > > > @"bravan.3876" said:

> > > > > @"FyzE.3472" said:

> > > > > > @"bravan.3876" said:

> > > > > > Lmao ofc much better solution than just a at least semi good balance... and even if the balance would be ok, 99% of all player in gw2 are very not so good and would vote for very not so smart stuff (like very not so good ppl hate mesmer even when it was underpowered) you rly wanna let them vote in ranked and forbid ppl to play the class they like (and maybe the only class they can play) in a casual game? Trump Wars 2 inc

> > > > >

> > > > > When Mesmer was underpowered again?

> > > >

> > > > Pre Hot the pure glass shattermes (the only build back then even considered to use in pvp) was not viable for itself, it was only used by teams with a godlike player for this build and even than only because of portal (and a good stealthgank synergy with thieves when there were no bruiser able to just kite on safe spots instead standing afk on point to cap home as fast as possible and wait for the oneshot out of stealth). In the moment the mesmer/thief paintrain got countered by ppl just wait at home on a safe spot this was history in high lvl pvp with coordinated teams or decent bruiser in high ranked. Pure class shatter mes had no single good matchup (that is still the same btw only rev is an exception, that is why phantasm spam builds, bunker or condibuilds were meta since hot and never a pure glass shattermesmer). Pre Hot mesmer only had the pure glass shattermes build and that was not viable in terms of being good by itself. "Mesmer is not viable but i am" - Helseth pre hot.

> > >

> > > So, if I understood correctly, what you are saying is, the worst state masmer ever had was when he was still playable as a roamer/decaper with portal and thief synergyes? And the only way to counter that back then was by staying in your home. Right?

> >

> > Lol wus? The way to counter a thief/mesmer paintrain in particular in the start is a bruiser you cannot beat as a thief or mesmer solo and who just wait on a safe spot near the close point until mesmer/thief drop out of stealth and need to re-rotate because they can't do anything at far anymore. I'm surprised and worried, that you don't know that yourself... o-O

> > Still without a portal you wouldn't have seen a single mesmer in high lvl pvp pre hot. And even now a pure glass shattermes is not viable except for killing (oneshotting) some very not so good player in low ranks or in NA.

>

> I started playing mid HoT. And it's a bit hart toimagine stuff only from a typed description :) But thanks for the explanation. Really helped me. Some people say that mesmer was NEVER bad. Now I know :)

 

Look at the skill lvl from ppl saying that. The only thing a pure glass shatter mes was ALWAYS good at is oneshotting some very not so good player.

[Ryan.9387]

> @"bravan.3876" said:

> > @"Ryan.9387" said:

> > > @"Best.3479" said:

> > > > @"Ryan.9387" said:

> > > > Honestly not a bad idea for a UGO, allow teams to ban a couple elite specs.

> > >

> > > This is such a stupid idea

> >

> > Only hurts one trick ponies who can't multiclass...

>

> And not let ppl vote only hurt very not so good player unwillig to improve and adapt. Op specs need to get balanced by Anet not by some clueless very not so good player voting.

 

Works in league of legends and is a way to:

 

A: Mitigate imbalanced specs in the short term

B: Force more creative team comps

 

Ofc with only 24 specs you can't have 6 bans, but a couple for each team would still leave 22 specs. Not for ranked btw, but instead for at/ugo.

[bravan.3876]

> @"Ryan.9387" said:

> > @"bravan.3876" said:

> > > @"Ryan.9387" said:

> > > > @"Best.3479" said:

> > > > > @"Ryan.9387" said:

> > > > > Honestly not a bad idea for a UGO, allow teams to ban a couple elite specs.

> > > >

> > > > This is such a stupid idea

> > >

> > > Only hurts one trick ponies who can't multiclass...

> >

> > And not let ppl vote only hurt very not so good player unwillig to improve and adapt. Op specs need to get balanced by Anet not by some clueless very not so good player voting.

>

> Works in league of legends and is a way to:

>

> A: Mitigate imbalanced specs in the short term

> B: Force more creative team comps

>

> Ofc with only 24 specs you can't have 6 bans, but a couple for each team would still leave 22 specs. Not for ranked btw, but instead for at/ugo.

 

LoL has way more champions and a lot of champions with the same "role" , you can't compare.

[shippage.1983]

I'm down for this idea, but too few players actually know how to change up their builds or even know multiple classes.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

> @"rank eleven monk.9502" said:

> After all those ... great quality threads here, I really thought this was going to be serious.

 

Lmao you expected the wrong thing

It's going to punish people that solo main and have never tried to master anything else. It has a ring of truth though, so I'm kind of curious what people think, even if it never gets implemented.

Seeing as how balance patches go through long periods of mediation and sometimes get dropped midseason, it has a _slim_ potential to be a stopgap for overpowered specs.

It requires people to at least play two classes, yes. But given the strong opinions several of us have about certain comps/builds, you'd think that would be a given.

[Sylosi.6503]

> @"Vieux P.1238" said:

> True! & i can't wait for it to happen. See how some of them platinum fares out vs real skilled players that don't rely on them kitten passives & that actually pressing on buttons on the keyboard to kill things. :D

 

LOL, you are playing a game that passively aims for you...

 

 

[ZDragon.3046]

I dont see why banning one e spec of a profession is a big deal just make it simple

Teams vote on a general preference before starting a queue

Vote on a general profession out of the 9

Then Vote one one of specs from that profession

Core

HoT

PoF

In the event something comes to a tie the last voter will have the option to recast their vote to one of the two as a tie breaker.

Which ever one gets the most votes you wont be matched with that specific spec for your next match. Unless you cancel and restart the queue.

Its just another layer to building a team comp honestly.

 

Its one thing to countering but then another to making matches nearly un winnable without using a specific set up (which can force people to play things they dont want to play to win). When 2 teams run the same comps all the time there is no counter.

Its a joke but at the same time there is some logic to this system. Ideally it would also give anet more data to use and try and figure out why somethings are getting the boot more than others.

[FyzE.3472]

This would be awesome! Unreal, but awesome! Want to pvp? Don't play Mesmer or next OP profession lol

[Legatus.3608]

> @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > But what if my account only has one character on it?

>

> time 2 lrn teef

 

Lol but thief would get banned the most, probably even more than mesmer. Don't ask for logic, it isn't there

[ZDragon.3046]

> @"shippage.1983" said:

> I'm down for this idea, but too few players actually know how to change up their builds or even know multiple classes.

Ideally you wouldnt have to change anything. You will just be matched with a team. You wouldnt be prompted "Please change your spec to enter the match" or anything.

Ideally you wouldnt know who or what teams banned out your spec because you just wouldnt be matched with them

 

The only time you would notice that your spec might be causing an issue is if the queue time was un reasonably long several matches in a row.

 

> @"Legatus.3608" said:

> Lol but thief would get banned the most, probably even more than mesmer. Don't ask for logic, it isn't there

 

You wouldnt be able to tell that mesmer was being banned more than thief at any particular time.

Not to mention you would be banning a whole profession just one of its elite specs

 

 

 

 

 

[Legatus.3608]

> @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > @"shippage.1983" said:

> > I'm down for this idea, but too few players actually know how to change up their builds or even know multiple classes.

> Ideally you wouldnt have to change anything. You will just be matched with a team. You wouldnt be prompted "Please change your spec to enter the match" or anything.

> Ideally you wouldnt know who or what teams banned out your spec because you just wouldnt be matched with them

>

> The only time you would notice that your spec might be causing an issue is if the queue time was un reasonably long several matches in a row.

>

> > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > Lol but thief would get banned the most, probably even more than mesmer. Don't ask for logic, it isn't there

>

> You wouldnt be able to tell that mesmer was being banned more than thief at any particular time.

> Not to mention you would be banning a whole profession just one of its elite specs

>

>

>

>

>

 

That doesn't make any sense, there are usable core specs that either are now or could potentially become meta in the future. You can only either ban the class as a whole or not at all.

[ZDragon.3046]

> @"Legatus.3608" said:

 

> That doesn't make any sense, there are usable core specs that either are now or could potentially become meta in the future. You can only either ban the class as a whole or not at all.

 

honestly what you are saying makes no sense. You just said I couldn't ban things by a specific spec bases but then you say you have to ban the whole profession which still bans the spec anyways! What are you on?

 

It makes no sense to ban a whole profession in general would cause very very long queue times due to the fact there are ONLY 9 of them.

More importantly its generally not the whole or core spec that poses problems in team comps its the e specs. Being able to ban 1 e spec per team alows for counter play to standard meta setups without having to run the exact same setup to counter it.

 

Infact doing this would likely open up core specs to to a meta standpoint no one uses core specs right now with the exception of ranger and warrior because those are the only ones who can really compete with other e specs in current meta. There is no real reason to run core mesmer because its e specs boost it to be even better.

 

If you are tired of the standard 2 mesmer 1 scourge 1 firebrand and a +1 set up a system like this would have shut that down without having to wait 3-6 months fro a proper fix. It would literally add a shake up to every team you were matched against based on your teams vote of ban.

Either you have never seen a ban system or you just randomly commented without reading anything above.

 

If there were per say at least 12 professions then I could understand banning them as a whole. But there are some people who only play 1 profession and while a certain spec might be banned out more than others it wont stop them form being able to be matched with people as not every team will prioritize the same ban unless something is severely wrong with the professions spec, (Example: Chono mesmer / Example: Bugged Scourge).

 

 

[bravan.3876]

> @"Sylosi.6503" said:

> > @"Vieux P.1238" said:

> > True! & i can't wait for it to happen. See how some of them platinum fares out vs real skilled players that don't rely on them kitten passives & that actually pressing on buttons on the keyboard to kill things. :D

>

> LOL, you are playing a game that passively aims for you...

>

>

 

As if aiming for yourself is any prove of skill need. Its a different playstyle. Don't waste cooldowns, reactiontime etc are also things need skill. A MMO isn't a shooter and still needs skill. No need to aim yourself doesn't mean less skillful, it just mean a different type of skill.

 

> @"FyzE.3472" said:

> This would be awesome! Unreal, but awesome! Want to pvp? Don't play Mesmer or next OP profession lol

 

And when no one is playing mesmer or the next op profession anymore you get voted out with the next and next op profession until no one can play anything anymore. Not unreal but uhm yea awesome... i guess...?

[Legatus.3608]

> @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > @"Legatus.3608" said:

>

> > That doesn't make any sense, there are usable core specs that either are now or could potentially become meta in the future. You can only either ban the class as a whole or not at all.

>

> honestly what you are saying makes no sense. You just said I couldn't ban things by a specific spec bases but then you say you have to ban the whole profession which still bans the spec anyways! What are you on?

>

> It makes no sense to ban a whole profession in general would cause very very long queue times due to the fact there are ONLY 9 of them.

> More importantly its generally not the whole or core spec that poses problems in team comps its the e specs. Being able to ban 1 e spec per team alows for counter play to standard meta setups without having to run the exact same setup to counter it.

>

> Infact doing this would likely open up core specs to to a meta standpoint no one uses core specs right now with the exception of ranger and warrior because those are the only ones who can really compete with other e specs in current meta. There is no real reason to run core mesmer because its e specs boost it to be even better.

>

> If you are tired of the standard 2 mesmer 1 scourge 1 firebrand and a +1 set up a system like this would have shut that down without having to wait 3-6 months fro a proper fix. It would literally add a shake up to every team you were matched against based on your teams vote of ban.

> Either you have never seen a ban system or you just randomly commented without reading anything above.

>

> If there were per say at least 12 professions then I could understand banning them as a whole. But there are some people who only play 1 profession and while a certain spec might be banned out more than others it wont stop them form being able to be matched with people as not every team will prioritize the same ban unless something is severely wrong with the professions spec, (Example: Chono mesmer / Example: Bugged Scourge).

>

>

 

Lol sorry i changed my text on that one like two seconds after posting it, I'm not sure why it didn't save the change.

 

But yeah basically the thing is you'd have to have core as a class selection which accounts for a lot more variation of builds than an elite spec. Which could work initially but I see the potential for problems down the line because the choices are not equitable.

[ZDragon.3046]

> @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> >

> > > That doesn't make any sense, there are usable core specs that either are now or could potentially become meta in the future. You can only either ban the class as a whole or not at all.

> >

> > honestly what you are saying makes no sense. You just said I couldn't ban things by a specific spec bases but then you say you have to ban the whole profession which still bans the spec anyways! What are you on?

> >

> > It makes no sense to ban a whole profession in general would cause very very long queue times due to the fact there are ONLY 9 of them.

> > More importantly its generally not the whole or core spec that poses problems in team comps its the e specs. Being able to ban 1 e spec per team alows for counter play to standard meta setups without having to run the exact same setup to counter it.

> >

> > Infact doing this would likely open up core specs to to a meta standpoint no one uses core specs right now with the exception of ranger and warrior because those are the only ones who can really compete with other e specs in current meta. There is no real reason to run core mesmer because its e specs boost it to be even better.

> >

> > If you are tired of the standard 2 mesmer 1 scourge 1 firebrand and a +1 set up a system like this would have shut that down without having to wait 3-6 months fro a proper fix. It would literally add a shake up to every team you were matched against based on your teams vote of ban.

> > Either you have never seen a ban system or you just randomly commented without reading anything above.

> >

> > If there were per say at least 12 professions then I could understand banning them as a whole. But there are some people who only play 1 profession and while a certain spec might be banned out more than others it wont stop them form being able to be matched with people as not every team will prioritize the same ban unless something is severely wrong with the professions spec, (Example: Chono mesmer / Example: Bugged Scourge).

> >

> >

>

> Lol sorry i changed my text on that one like two seconds after posting it, I'm not sure why it didn't save the change.

>

> But yeah basically the thing is you'd have to have core as a class selection which accounts for a lot more variation of builds than an elite spec. Which could work initially but I see the potential for problems down the line because the choices are not equitable.

 

Care to elaborate a bit more what do you mean by

"not equitable?"

[Sylosi.6503]

> @"bravan.3876" said:

> > @"Sylosi.6503" said:

> > > @"Vieux P.1238" said:

> > > True! & i can't wait for it to happen. See how some of them platinum fares out vs real skilled players that don't rely on them kitten passives & that actually pressing on buttons on the keyboard to kill things. :D

> >

> > LOL, you are playing a game that passively aims for you...

> >

> >

>

> As if aiming for yourself is any prove of skill need. Its a different playstyle. Don't waste cooldowns, reactiontime etc are also things need skill. A MMO isn't a shooter and still needs skill. No need to aim yourself doesn't mean less skillful, it just mean a different type of skill.

 

Not really, aiming is not limited to shooters, you have to aim in plenty of games, even some MMOs (ESO for example), in fact not having to aim is one of the reasons some don't consider GW2 as having action combat.

 

And yes having to aim does alter the playstyle, however it also requires more skill than tab targeting and the game aiming for you, that is a fact, if GW2 were exactly the same, but you had to aim then it would have a higher skill cap.

 

Lastly you rather missed the point, the person I replied to was relating passives to lack of skill, yet ironically misses the most passive thing about this game, and the thing that reduces the skill cap by far more than any of these passive traits, which is the game passively aims for you.

[Lyger.5429]

This would be an interesting system, Paladins has it and it works out pretty well.

[Legatus.3608]

> @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > > > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > >

> > > > That doesn't make any sense, there are usable core specs that either are now or could potentially become meta in the future. You can only either ban the class as a whole or not at all.

> > >

> > > honestly what you are saying makes no sense. You just said I couldn't ban things by a specific spec bases but then you say you have to ban the whole profession which still bans the spec anyways! What are you on?

> > >

> > > It makes no sense to ban a whole profession in general would cause very very long queue times due to the fact there are ONLY 9 of them.

> > > More importantly its generally not the whole or core spec that poses problems in team comps its the e specs. Being able to ban 1 e spec per team alows for counter play to standard meta setups without having to run the exact same setup to counter it.

> > >

> > > Infact doing this would likely open up core specs to to a meta standpoint no one uses core specs right now with the exception of ranger and warrior because those are the only ones who can really compete with other e specs in current meta. There is no real reason to run core mesmer because its e specs boost it to be even better.

> > >

> > > If you are tired of the standard 2 mesmer 1 scourge 1 firebrand and a +1 set up a system like this would have shut that down without having to wait 3-6 months fro a proper fix. It would literally add a shake up to every team you were matched against based on your teams vote of ban.

> > > Either you have never seen a ban system or you just randomly commented without reading anything above.

> > >

> > > If there were per say at least 12 professions then I could understand banning them as a whole. But there are some people who only play 1 profession and while a certain spec might be banned out more than others it wont stop them form being able to be matched with people as not every team will prioritize the same ban unless something is severely wrong with the professions spec, (Example: Chono mesmer / Example: Bugged Scourge).

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Lol sorry i changed my text on that one like two seconds after posting it, I'm not sure why it didn't save the change.

> >

> > But yeah basically the thing is you'd have to have core as a class selection which accounts for a lot more variation of builds than an elite spec. Which could work initially but I see the potential for problems down the line because the choices are not equitable.

>

> Care to elaborate a bit more what do you mean by

> "not equitable?"

 

Well banning one specific trait line is not the same thing as REQUIRING a specific trait line in your build, which is basically what "core ban" would be. In the last meta core thief was considered a better option than daredevil or deadeye, banning "core" thief really just means forcing you to run DD or DE. It's not the same thing as simply removing one of your 7 choices of trait line.

 

EDIT: fucking hell I don't even know why I bothered because my instinct told me it couldn't be possible, but it turns out banning 1 of your 7 trait lines actually removes the same number of build combinations as requiring one of the two elite specs, by some miracle of luck. Would have never thought that if I hadn't ran the numbers myself. So I guess it would work out mathematically at least.

However you do have to consider the possibility of more elite specs in the future, that would I'd think break this lucky-strike of probability making the ban system biased towards core bans.

[bravan.3876]

> @"Sylosi.6503" said:

> > @"bravan.3876" said:

> > > @"Sylosi.6503" said:

> > > > @"Vieux P.1238" said:

> > > > True! & i can't wait for it to happen. See how some of them platinum fares out vs real skilled players that don't rely on them kitten passives & that actually pressing on buttons on the keyboard to kill things. :D

> > >

> > > LOL, you are playing a game that passively aims for you...

> > >

> > >

> >

> > As if aiming for yourself is any prove of skill need. Its a different playstyle. Don't waste cooldowns, reactiontime etc are also things need skill. A MMO isn't a shooter and still needs skill. No need to aim yourself doesn't mean less skillful, it just mean a different type of skill.

>

> Not really, aiming is not limited to shooters, you have to aim in plenty of games, even some MMOs (ESO for example), in fact not having to aim is one of the reasons some don't consider GW2 as having action combat.

>

> And yes having to aim does alter the playstyle, however it also requires more skill than tab targeting and the game aiming for you, that is a fact, if GW2 were exactly the same, but you had to aim then it would have a higher skill cap.

>

> Lastly you rather missed the point, the person I replied to was relating passives to lack of skill, yet ironically misses the most passive thing about this game, and the thing that reduces the skill cap by far more than any of these passive traits, which is the game passively aims for you.

 

Aiming is limited to a special kind of skill-types or not? Thats why the action cam in GW2 is so useless for most classes/ skills in GW2. The aiming ability just not fit with most skills in GW2 and i don't think that this lowers the skill need, it just turn the skill-need into other aspects of the gameplay. The same GW2 but with aiming would simply not be possible so this argument don't make much sense for me. I think the opinion that games need aiming for being high skilled is simply not true for every type of game. Ofc a game like Overwatch would be trash without player aiming but it all depends on what the game is based on.

[ZDragon.3046]

> @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > > > > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > > >

> > > > > That doesn't make any sense, there are usable core specs that either are now or could potentially become meta in the future. You can only either ban the class as a whole or not at all.

> > > >

> > > > honestly what you are saying makes no sense. You just said I couldn't ban things by a specific spec bases but then you say you have to ban the whole profession which still bans the spec anyways! What are you on?

> > > >

> > > > It makes no sense to ban a whole profession in general would cause very very long queue times due to the fact there are ONLY 9 of them.

> > > > More importantly its generally not the whole or core spec that poses problems in team comps its the e specs. Being able to ban 1 e spec per team alows for counter play to standard meta setups without having to run the exact same setup to counter it.

> > > >

> > > > Infact doing this would likely open up core specs to to a meta standpoint no one uses core specs right now with the exception of ranger and warrior because those are the only ones who can really compete with other e specs in current meta. There is no real reason to run core mesmer because its e specs boost it to be even better.

> > > >

> > > > If you are tired of the standard 2 mesmer 1 scourge 1 firebrand and a +1 set up a system like this would have shut that down without having to wait 3-6 months fro a proper fix. It would literally add a shake up to every team you were matched against based on your teams vote of ban.

> > > > Either you have never seen a ban system or you just randomly commented without reading anything above.

> > > >

> > > > If there were per say at least 12 professions then I could understand banning them as a whole. But there are some people who only play 1 profession and while a certain spec might be banned out more than others it wont stop them form being able to be matched with people as not every team will prioritize the same ban unless something is severely wrong with the professions spec, (Example: Chono mesmer / Example: Bugged Scourge).

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > Lol sorry i changed my text on that one like two seconds after posting it, I'm not sure why it didn't save the change.

> > >

> > > But yeah basically the thing is you'd have to have core as a class selection which accounts for a lot more variation of builds than an elite spec. Which could work initially but I see the potential for problems down the line because the choices are not equitable.

> >

> > Care to elaborate a bit more what do you mean by

> > "not equitable?"

>

> Well banning one specific trait line is not the same thing as REQUIRING a specific trait line in your build, which is basically what "core ban" would be. In the last meta core thief was considered a better option than daredevil or deadeye, banning "core" thief really just means forcing you to run DD or DE. It's not the same thing as simply removing one of your 7 choices of trait line.

>

> EDIT: kitten hell I don't even know why I bothered because my instinct told me it couldn't be possible, but it turns out banning 1 of your 7 trait lines actually removes the same number of build combinations as requiring one of the two elite specs, by some miracle of luck. Would have never thought that if I hadn't ran the numbers myself. So I guess it would work out mathematically at least.

> However you do have to consider the possibility of more elite specs in the future, that would I'd think break this lucky-strike of probability making the ban system biased towards core bans.

 

Ok well then suppose it only banned HoT and PoF specs then.

I can understand why banning core would be rough as there are many traitlines combos that can be done with core. Your argument is completely fair here.

[ZDragon.3046]

> @"Sylosi.6503" said:

> > @"bravan.3876" said:

> > > @"Sylosi.6503" said:

> > > > @"Vieux P.1238" said:

> > > > True! & i can't wait for it to happen. See how some of them platinum fares out vs real skilled players that don't rely on them kitten passives & that actually pressing on buttons on the keyboard to kill things. :D

> > >

> > > LOL, you are playing a game that passively aims for you...

> > >

> > >

> >

> > As if aiming for yourself is any prove of skill need. Its a different playstyle. Don't waste cooldowns, reactiontime etc are also things need skill. A MMO isn't a shooter and still needs skill. No need to aim yourself doesn't mean less skillful, it just mean a different type of skill.

>

> Not really, aiming is not limited to shooters, you have to aim in plenty of games, even some MMOs (ESO for example), in fact not having to aim is one of the reasons some don't consider GW2 as having action combat.

>

> And yes having to aim does alter the playstyle, however it also requires more skill than tab targeting and the game aiming for you, that is a fact, if GW2 were exactly the same, but you had to aim then it would have a higher skill cap.

>

> Lastly you rather missed the point, the person I replied to was relating passives to lack of skill, yet ironically misses the most passive thing about this game, and the thing that reduces the skill cap by far more than any of these passive traits, which is the game passively aims for you.

 

This conversation is not even part of the Post and its rather ridiculous Gw2 is an mmo and you do choose which target you want to shoot. Passive aiming is a common feature in mmo's because its not where skill factor is determined. Skill comes to how well you can make your profession perform against other and if you can push it to its max under the best and worst matchups.

Its not a FPS

ESO is not a contender. All you have to do is face your foe and the aim snaps to them automatically thats not real aiming either. Then again in most situations games dont play as fast as gw2 either. Find a 3rd person mmo thats relevant and still alive and show me it requires manual aiming that does not auto snap from just looking in a general direction and ill tip my hat to you other wise its best just to drop the conversation as this is not the place for it and your logic behind it is pointless as there are no games to compare it to.

[Sylosi.6503]

> @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> This conversation is not even part of the Post and its rather ridiculous Gw2 is an mmo and you do choose which target you want to shoot. Passive aiming is a common feature in mmo's because its not where skill factor is determined. Skill comes to how well you can make your profession perform against other and if you can push it to its max under the best and worst matchups.

> Its not a FPS

> ESO is not a contender. All you have to do is face your foe and the aim snaps to them automatically thats not real aiming either. Then again in most situations games dont play as fast as gw2 either. Find a 3rd person mmo thats relevant and still alive and show me it requires manual aiming that does not auto snap from just looking in a general direction and ill tip my hat to you other wise its best just to drop the conversation as this is not the place for it and your logic behind it is pointless as there are no games to compare it to.

 

Not all MMORPGs play the same way, else you wouldn't have dodges in games like GW2, ESO, etc and you'd still have rows and rows of skills like LOTRO, WOW, etc, maybe if you had played a few more MMORPGs then you wouldn't need me to give you an example of one that used 'proper' aiming, Darkfall for instance. (Not that it matters in the slightest to the point, which is about passive play, not what is common in MMOs, but that requires a certain degree of logic to realize...)

 

> @"ZDragon.3046" said:

>This conversation is not even part of the Post...

 

Yet rather than ignore it, you chose to partake in it even though it was in reply to someone else, there is a word for that. ;)

[MithranArkanere.8957]

You may say this as a joke, but Draft matchmaking for ranked would work, if it was possible to do it.

 

Problem is, you can't ban entire professions, or even elite specializations. For it to work, you'll have to ban specific builds. And to be able to do that, people would have to prepare a series of builds that are not too similar beforehand, be able to queue independently of the characters they are currently playing, and then at the start of a match, both teams would take turns picking the builds they want and banning the enemy builds they do not want from the predefined lists.

 

So to have draft matchmaking we'd need a way to save PvP build templates, a way to assign a list of them in a series of slots (at least 10), and load the character on the fly before the match begins. People would also have to be able to make small changes to the build before the match starts, but not too many, so builds that are too similar like changing just a few skills, traits or just 1 weapon would have to be considered as the same build, and the system would have to limit what changes and how many can be done. The build slots themselves would also allow only builds that are different enough to other builds already in a slot.

 

With such a system in place, we'd be able to essentially queue with multiple builds, and put in the hands of players a bit of balance. As builds that work too well too often with too little effort would be quickly banned.

 

Draft matchmaking would also allow locking so people do not change characters at all after the start of a match, have a base for performance-based matchmaking, and better adjustments for ratings based on profession.

[EnderzShadow.2506]

A ridiculous idea.

That too many of you actually believe would fix anything.

 

You're getting desperate.