This is great

[Uncle Dalty.8327]

> @"AliamRationem.5172" said:

> > @"Uncle Dalty.8327" said:

> > > @"Shaogin.2679" said:

> > > So this comes from the "Disenchanter" Chronomancer build. A build that uses the Paladin amulet. A build described on MetaBattle as "A tanky PvP chronomancer build primarily made to 1v1." But this tanky build is doing stuff such as this:

> > > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> > > > 

> > > > Considering only 2 out of the 4 attacks from the Avenger landed a critical hit on me. The defensive **BLOCKING ABILITY** "only" hit me for a whopping 19321 damage.

> > > > This would be somewhat okay if this wasn't a defensive ability. If it didnt couple 19k damage with a 3 second block.

> > > >

> > > > If they all would've crit the damage would output would've been increased to 26876. In 1 skill, which is once again. **A BLOCK**

> > > >

> > > > @Arenanet still waiting for an update.

> > > >

> > > > Edit: I used my dodges to dodge the Defenders / Disenchanters so don't bother coming with kitten like "just dodge". Because in reality, you should not have to dodge a block.

> > >

> > > And then of course Mesmer mains be like:

> > > > @"Vieux P.1238" said:

> > > > You want to nerf Chrono becuz what? becuz it counters your build. You need to tweak your build instead of asking for a nerf. Cuz Chrono is way not overpowered. Your problem is you can't deal with a Boon removal build. Weird, i can with your build despite it counters my guardian as much as you. You just want it easy instead of looking for some special tweak that will help you out. I'm sorry i can't follow your reasoning & not going to agree with you cuz your build can't deal with it.

> > >

> > > Now as a Power Reaper I don't have issues with these Chronomancers since I have unblockable AoE damage and enough pressure and cc to take down a bunker solo, but see I pay for that damage by being super squishy. It is never cool to put out high damage AND be tanky. Didn't we nerf Scrapper several times for stuff like this? And trying to deny a problem exists despite it being blatantly obvious in the community and insulting people that are simply discussing an issue is a horrible way to convince anyone that you are anything more than a biased Mesmer main just desperately trying to avoid nerfs.

> >

> > I don't think it's the mesmer MAINS who are saying that mes isn't broken.... it's the bandwagon riders. Any mesmer mains are proposing detailed(ish) solutions on how to tone down mes without gutting the class completely.

>

> The PvE side complicates things as well. ANet has already made some very contentious changes (confusion nerf) that have completely ruined a few key skills in PvE (most notably Cry of Frustration) and even required an emergency fix to axe, all in the name of fixing mesmer in PvP. Many of the suggestions for fixing mesmer in PvP would once again have a severe impact on the PvE side. This goes beyond simply adjusting damage numbers. The fundamentals of the class and the entire playstyle are potentially at stake.

>

> I don't PvP much, so I don't feel qualified to comment on how we should fix this. But whatever they do, ANet needs to do a better job of separating PvE and PvP. The confusion nerf was and is an unacceptable and broken "fix". There is too much conflict between these game modes. What works for one does not necessarily work for the other. The idea that you can maintain perfect continuity across disparate game modes while maintaining balance is a fantasy.

 

I can't say you're wrong... but this is the PvP forum. wtf is Pveeeeeee?

[Vagrant.7206]

> @"Odik.4587" said:

> > @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> > > @"Odik.4587" said:

> > > > @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> > > > > @"cptaylor.2670" said:

> > > > > > @"Rufo.3716" said:

> > > > > > This whole argument sounds like the age old, I'm rock, nerf paper, scissors is fine.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Everyone is complaining about mesmers lately but I think that’s because people just don’t know how to fight them. I’ve only seen maybe two chrono builds that were ridiculous and one was purely bunker.

> > > >

> > > > No, that's not the only reason. There's multiple reasons:

> > > >

> > > > 1. The illusion spam is nuts. It was hard to keep track of a mesmer before the phantasm rework, now it's like trying to solve a rubik's cube while you're tumbling in freefall. There needs to be a cap and queue, as some have suggested. There are even threads about how multiple illusion spammers can cause culling on low-end machines, which shouldn't be happening in sPvP.

> > > > 2. Certain shatter builds are capable of one-shotting individuals (even tanky ones) in under a second from stealth if set up properly and used well. Granted, these builds are glassy and require a good amount of skill to coordinate, but even thief isn't capable of that kind of burst (DJ doesn't count in sPvP, near impossible to land), and they're supposed to be the bursty class.

> > > > 3. Certain chrono builds are capable of incredible tankiness while still outputting the damage and CC of a holo.

> > > > 4. And most mirage builds run several teleports, enough to disengage quickly from most fights despite the aforementioned nuking potential. They are potentially better at being thieves than thieves, and bear less risk.

> > >

> > > 1. only chrono cuz of phantasms i guess? Rework chronophantasma to not resummon phantasms. Had problems to find real mesmer before rework ? L2p or rather differ clones/player , may be you should invest some time to play it yourself?

> > > 2. still complaining about nerfed gs,they are farming your poor holo?(potato will always die regardless of being tanky or not) On EU was thief with a name Der Assasin ,once on coliseum iv got killed from full health just from steal+bound+backstab while I was necro(deadshot amulet) on some of AT's ,fun times .

> > > 3. see number1 (holo capable to reduce incoming damage to 0 and still do his damage.)

> > > 4. several teleports its blink and jaunt that we still use offensively and not always have 3/3 off cd?

> >

> > 1. Lol, the L2P comment always gives me a laugh. It's the go-to defense of any class that's overpowered. :) Scourge was also saying it too, before they got nerfed. Funny how that works.

> > 2. I actually don't understand what you wrote for your second point. Spacing, grammar, and punctuation is appreciated.

> > 3. Yeah, you're really sore about that eh? Maybe mesmer shouldn't be able to attack while invuln too. At least with holosmith, it's because multiple effects are stacking together, and no single button causes that.

> > 4. Poor you! You have 3 teleports that you can use offensively or defensively. Maybe it should be 5 or 6. /s

>

> 1 yes , if you couldnt find real mesmer before patch,especially with your holo melting phantasms/clones instantly , you should clearly learn to play xD

> 2 I like when Shadowpass/you have nothing to answer 'your english too bad'. You dying on 'defensive' spec to GS shatter mesmer ? Learn to play again ?

> laugh as much as you want ,but learn to play instead of complaining on forum ;)

> 3 So what ? I'm actually surprised that you can reach 100% damage mitigation (4s but still dying,QQ) but still whine about power GS mesmer

> 4 yes ,would be nice to have 10 actually ... hardly see how jaunt compete with thief shortbow

 

1. Apparently you only read what you want to. I said "It was hard to keep track of a mesmer before the phantasm rework" and you misinterpreted that as "it's impossible to find the mesmer." Shouting "L2P!" at somebody based on something you misread isn't a valid argument either.

2. Honestly, language is about communication. If I can't read what you write or comprehend what you write, then it was pointless to type it. If I said I couldn't understand your point, it's because it was unclear. My real life work is writing and editing, so the value of clear, concise writing is not lost upon me. And once again, the L2P comment is always used in defense of a class or spec that is overpowered. Prove me wrong.

3. You are making a lot of assumptions about me and what I play. That's somewhat strange. Not to mention, that damage reduction from holosmith takes at least 3 skills + 2 or 3 traits working in sync to pull off. Can the same be said for mirage dodge? Or mesmer distortion? Or any of the other "attack while invuln" skills in this game? I would say it was overpowered if there were no other "attack while invuln" abilities in the game, but we're looking at mesmer, a class which has access to several attack while invuln abilities. TL ; DR : Pot calling kettle black.

4. LOL. Then you're truly either out of touch with fighting as a mirage, fighting against mirages, and/or even playing the spec. Jaunt is capable of clone generation and a fair amount of damage, on top of instant-cast mobility. Thief shortbow has a casting time, is reflectable, and can only be used twice in a row without initiative regen, which pulls from thief's attack skills. A thief that uses shortbow offensively is wasting their attack potential. A mesmer that uses jaunt offensively is not.

[Imperadordf.2687]

> @"Airdive.2613" said:

> > @"Imperadordf.2687" said:

> > > @"Airdive.2613" said:

> > > > @"Imperadordf.2687" said:

> > > > > @"Airdive.2613" said:

> > > > > Playing core guardian, can't you burst the mesmer to make him retreat even before you start taking damage?

> > > >

> > > > Fun fact : Mesmers have dodges.

> > >

> > > Everyone does.

> >

> > So? You said "Burst the Mesmer" and I said Mesmers have dodges to dodge the burst of the guardian.

>

> So? You, too, have dodges to dodge the burst of the mesmer. It's all about timing.

 

Oh really? It's almost like us Mesmers have like 6-7 hard hitting skills and Core Guardians only have 2 dodges :p

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

> @"Odik.4587" said:

> > @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> > > @"Odik.4587" said:

> > > > @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> > > > > @"cptaylor.2670" said:

> > > > > > @"Rufo.3716" said:

> > > > > > This whole argument sounds like the age old, I'm rock, nerf paper, scissors is fine.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Everyone is complaining about mesmers lately but I think that’s because people just don’t know how to fight them. I’ve only seen maybe two chrono builds that were ridiculous and one was purely bunker.

> > > >

> > > > No, that's not the only reason. There's multiple reasons:

> > > >

> > > > 1. The illusion spam is nuts. It was hard to keep track of a mesmer before the phantasm rework, now it's like trying to solve a rubik's cube while you're tumbling in freefall. There needs to be a cap and queue, as some have suggested. There are even threads about how multiple illusion spammers can cause culling on low-end machines, which shouldn't be happening in sPvP.

> > > > 2. Certain shatter builds are capable of one-shotting individuals (even tanky ones) in under a second from stealth if set up properly and used well. Granted, these builds are glassy and require a good amount of skill to coordinate, but even thief isn't capable of that kind of burst (DJ doesn't count in sPvP, near impossible to land), and they're supposed to be the bursty class.

> > > > 3. Certain chrono builds are capable of incredible tankiness while still outputting the damage and CC of a holo.

> > > > 4. And most mirage builds run several teleports, enough to disengage quickly from most fights despite the aforementioned nuking potential. They are potentially better at being thieves than thieves, and bear less risk.

> > >

> > > 1. only chrono cuz of phantasms i guess? Rework chronophantasma to not resummon phantasms. Had problems to find real mesmer before rework ? L2p or rather differ clones/player , may be you should invest some time to play it yourself?

> > > 2. still complaining about nerfed gs,they are farming your poor holo?(potato will always die regardless of being tanky or not) On EU was thief with a name Der Assasin ,once on coliseum iv got killed from full health just from steal+bound+backstab while I was necro(deadshot amulet) on some of AT's ,fun times .

> > > 3. see number1 (holo capable to reduce incoming damage to 0 and still do his damage.)

> > > 4. several teleports its blink and jaunt that we still use offensively and not always have 3/3 off cd?

> >

> > 1. Lol, the L2P comment always gives me a laugh. It's the go-to defense of any class that's overpowered. :) Scourge was also saying it too, before they got nerfed. Funny how that works.

> > 2. I actually don't understand what you wrote for your second point. Spacing, grammar, and punctuation is appreciated.

> > 3. Yeah, you're really sore about that eh? Maybe mesmer shouldn't be able to attack while invuln too. At least with holosmith, it's because multiple effects are stacking together, and no single button causes that.

> > 4. Poor you! You have 3 teleports that you can use offensively or defensively. Maybe it should be 5 or 6. /s

>

> 1 yes , if you couldnt find real mesmer before patch,especially with your holo melting phantasms/clones instantly , you should clearly learn to play xD

> 2 I like when Shadowpass/you have nothing to answer 'your english too bad'. You dying on 'defensive' spec to GS shatter mesmer ? Learn to play again ?

> laugh as much as you want ,but learn to play instead of complaining on forum ;)

> 3 So what ? I'm actually surprised that you can reach 100% damage mitigation (4s but still dying,QQ) but still whine about power GS mesmer

> 4 yes ,would be nice to have 10 actually ... hardly see how jaunt compete with thief shortbow

 

Short bow #5 Will do 3 in a row just like jaunt except you still have possibly 2 full weapon sets that are not on CD. Thief just wasted all inianitve and has nothing left on either weapon set... INB4 SB #5 can port up cliffs and stairs.

[Odik.4587]

> @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> 1. Apparently you only read what you want to. I said "It was hard to keep track of a mesmer before the phantasm rework" and you misinterpreted that as "it's impossible to find the mesmer." Shouting "L2P!" at somebody based on something you misread isn't a valid argument either.

> 2. Honestly, language is about communication. If I can't read what you write or comprehend what you write, then it was pointless to type it. If I said I couldn't understand your point, it's because it was unclear. My real life work is writing and editing, so the value of clear, concise writing is not lost upon me. And once again, the L2P comment is always used in defense of a class or spec that is overpowered. Prove me wrong.

> 3. You are making a lot of assumptions about me and what I play. That's somewhat strange. Not to mention, that damage reduction from holosmith takes at least 3 skills + 2 or 3 traits working in sync to pull off. Can the same be said for mirage dodge? Or mesmer distortion? Or any of the other "attack while invuln" skills in this game? I would say it was overpowered if there were no other "attack while invuln" abilities in the game, but we're looking at mesmer, a class which has access to several attack while invuln abilities. TL ; DR : Pot calling kettle black.

> 4. LOL. Then you're truly either out of touch with fighting as a mirage, fighting against mirages, and/or even playing the spec. Jaunt is capable of clone generation and a fair amount of damage, on top of instant-cast mobility. Thief shortbow has a casting time, is reflectable, and can only be used twice in a row without initiative regen, which pulls from thief's attack skills. A thief that uses shortbow offensively is wasting their attack potential. A mesmer that uses jaunt offensively is not.

 

What did you expect from me ? As someone playing memser never had problems to find real one , so thats your problem with finding real one ... What else i should tell you ? Look better who is actually moving like a real player ?

You say

>Certain shatter builds are capable of one-shotting individuals (even tanky ones) in under a second from stealth if set up properly and used well.

I even had link to Misha stream , Tolfdir was playing burn DH last season , Misha went stealth from like 1800 distance , used blink and shatter combo with mantra but since Tolfdir actually not a potato he dodged/blocked entire burst. Its impossible to oneshot 'tanky individual' unless he is bad . If he can dodge/block it ,why others cant ? Its been in game for 5 years and people instead of learning how to dodge they complain on forum . We alrdy had discussion about GS shatter mesmer iirc there was you/dominik and unlike you he at least known as a good player , even Bravan that with his both legs and hands for chaos/inspiration nerf says that

>I would never deny that the new phantasm spam mechanic is broken. But when i see ppl complaining about gs glass shattermesmer then it is just ridiculous.

Omegalul, Protection/spectrum shield is enough to barely take damage . How come thats came to speaking about distortion/mirage cloak while your complaint was about chrono or its 2 elite specs in same time ?

I trolled that i need 10 obviously lmao . 1800 range on bow its something and followed up with another 900 its good enough to disengage to not being caught ,unless another thief. Jaunt does so little damage after 50% damage nerf and have small cooldown before uses,oftenly used to cleanse condis as well, i wouldnt look at this skill as 'great mobility tool'

[Odik.4587]

> @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> Short bow #5 Will do 3 in a row just like jaunt except you still have possibly 2 full weapon sets that are not on CD. Thief just wasted all inianitve and has nothing left on either weapon set... INB4 SB #5 can port up cliffs and stairs.

U know jaunt range and its has 20s cd on charge? Still dont understand how jaunt is better than sb5 lmao

[Vagrant.7206]

> @"Odik.4587" said:

> > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> > Short bow #5 Will do 3 in a row just like jaunt except you still have possibly 2 full weapon sets that are not on CD. Thief just wasted all inianitve and has nothing left on either weapon set... INB4 SB #5 can port up cliffs and stairs.

> U know jaunt range and its has 20s cd on charge? Still dont understand how jaunt is better than sb5 lmao

 

* Can use while CC'd

* Deals damage and generates a clone which can be used for attacks or defense.

* Doesn't draw from a resource pool like initiative, which would interfere with your attack skills.

 

> @"Odik.4587" said:

> > @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> > 1. Apparently you only read what you want to. I said "It was hard to keep track of a mesmer before the phantasm rework" and you misinterpreted that as "it's impossible to find the mesmer." Shouting "L2P!" at somebody based on something you misread isn't a valid argument either.

> > 2. Honestly, language is about communication. If I can't read what you write or comprehend what you write, then it was pointless to type it. If I said I couldn't understand your point, it's because it was unclear. My real life work is writing and editing, so the value of clear, concise writing is not lost upon me. And once again, the L2P comment is always used in defense of a class or spec that is overpowered. Prove me wrong.

> > 3. You are making a lot of assumptions about me and what I play. That's somewhat strange. Not to mention, that damage reduction from holosmith takes at least 3 skills + 2 or 3 traits working in sync to pull off. Can the same be said for mirage dodge? Or mesmer distortion? Or any of the other "attack while invuln" skills in this game? I would say it was overpowered if there were no other "attack while invuln" abilities in the game, but we're looking at mesmer, a class which has access to several attack while invuln abilities. TL ; DR : Pot calling kettle black.

> > 4. LOL. Then you're truly either out of touch with fighting as a mirage, fighting against mirages, and/or even playing the spec. Jaunt is capable of clone generation and a fair amount of damage, on top of instant-cast mobility. Thief shortbow has a casting time, is reflectable, and can only be used twice in a row without initiative regen, which pulls from thief's attack skills. A thief that uses shortbow offensively is wasting their attack potential. A mesmer that uses jaunt offensively is not.

>

> What did you expect from me ? As someone playing memser never had problems to find real one , so thats your problem with finding real one ... What else i should tell you ? Look better who is actually moving like a real player ?

> You say

> >Certain shatter builds are capable of one-shotting individuals (even tanky ones) in under a second from stealth if set up properly and used well.

> I even had link to Misha stream , Tolfdir was playing burn DH last season , Misha went stealth from like 1800 distance , used blink and shatter combo with mantra but since Tolfdir actually not a potato he dodged/blocked entire burst. Its impossible to oneshot 'tanky individual' unless he is bad . If he can dodge/block it ,why others cant ? Its been in game for 5 years and people instead of learning how to dodge they complain on forum . We alrdy had discussion about GS shatter mesmer iirc there was you/dominik and unlike you he at least known as a good player , even Bravan that with his both legs and hands for chaos/inspiration nerf says that

> >I would never deny that the new phantasm spam mechanic is broken. But when i see ppl complaining about gs glass shattermesmer then it is just ridiculous.

> Omegalul, Protection/spectrum shield is enough to barely take damage . How come thats came to speaking about distortion/mirage cloak while your complaint was about chrono or its 2 elite specs in same time ?

> I trolled that i need 10 obviously lmao . 1800 range on bow its something and followed up with another 900 its good enough to disengage to not being caught ,unless another thief. Jaunt does so little damage after 50% damage nerf and have small cooldown before uses,oftenly used to cleanse condis as well, i wouldnt look at this skill as 'great mobility tool'

 

* Again, only reading what you want to read apparently. Finding a mesmer before this patch wasn't impossible. A good mesmer made it difficult, but it generally wasn't the hardest thing ever. With the illusion spam, however, good mesmers can be really hard to spot, especially if there's two of them. It's too much visual information.

* About the shatter mesmer thing. The situation you described is mainly guesswork on the part of the bunker -- I usually estimate about one to two seconds before I perform the dodge, but it's not uncommon for me to be wrong. The problem is that there's no tell whatsoever. It's total guesswork. Holo damage, scourge damage, etc. at least give you the ability to *tell* when the damage is coming. The mesmer shatter? Nope! You have to guess and pray you guessed right. That's not fulfilling or interesting counterplay, that's luck mixed with some experience. Thief glass builds at least give you some chance to react, as backstab only does some of the damage.

* I never said jaunt was a "great" mobility tool. Rather, it's used to disengage or defend and attack in the same breath. Imagine for a moment that you're a warrior, and you just landed a decent stun on a mirage. The way mirage works right now, even if all their dodges and blink were burned, they could just jaunt out of melee range or behind the warrior while they're stunned (for a more offensive move). That's incredibly powerful and kind of ludicrous.

[Nuka Cola.8520]

feels good finally seeing people crying about power mes instead of condi

[Ario.8964]

> @"Odik.4587" said:

> > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> > Short bow #5 Will do 3 in a row just like jaunt except you still have possibly 2 full weapon sets that are not on CD. Thief just wasted all inianitve and has nothing left on either weapon set... INB4 SB #5 can port up cliffs and stairs.

> U know jaunt range and its has 20s cd on charge? Still dont understand how jaunt is better than sb5 lmao

 

Not that this comparison should even be made to begin with as the two skills are supposed to serve different purposes but for the sake of just making sure this is clear let's looks at what each skill does:

Thief short bow 5:

Ports 900 range (1800 if you use all you initiative at once and 2700 if you use it again about a second or two after the other two)

suffers from no valid path due to being a shadowstep

has a cast time so it can be interrupted

Does no damage to anyone in the impact zone (does blind though)

Can be destroyed as it is a projectile

Costs 6 initiative (assuming 1.5 initiative regen per second that puts it on a technical 4 second cd before all initiative is regenerated) note: that is for only the skill itself, not taking into account how it impacts other skills on thief's weapon or the thief's combat readiness

 

Jaunt:

Does Damage

Inflicts confusion

Ports 450 range per charge (1350 range in total if all charges are used back to back)

Removes a condition

instant cast (can be used while cced, check me on this one cause I may have gotten that wrong and if I did I'll edit it)

Counts as a leap finisher (lots more synergy with fields)

Being a teleport and not a shadowstep it isn't impacted by valid path spots nearly as much as shortbow

3 uses that are recharging while you can use your other skills with no downside (fairly low cd on the charges when you take into account you can stock up to 3 uses and use them while you recharge your counts)

 

Jaunt definitely out performs sb5 in a combat sense but sb5 wins the disengage game. Now realize that these comparisons are pointless as each class has strengths and weaknesses unique to them and you can't balance just by comparing 1 or 2 skills on different classes.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

> @"Odik.4587" said:

> > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> > Short bow #5 Will do 3 in a row just like jaunt except you still have possibly 2 full weapon sets that are not on CD. Thief just wasted all inianitve and has nothing left on either weapon set... INB4 SB #5 can port up cliffs and stairs.

> U know jaunt range and its has 20s cd on charge? Still dont understand how jaunt is better than sb5 lmao

 

the range isn't the point, it does not interfere with your skill#1-5 where as short bow #5 does. if we are talking about just legging it then sure... no arguments but in a combat situation then i would say jaunt is very competitive vs short bow #5

[Legatus.3608]

> @"Rufo.3716" said:

> This whole argument sounds like the age old, I'm rock, nerf paper, scissors is fine.

 

So if mesmer is scissors what is rock then?

[Testie.1276]

thats completely fine, just learn how to play the game.

[Math.5123]

> @"Testie.1276" said:

> thats completely fine, just learn how to play the game.

 


If you say so.

[Vieux P.1238]

> @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> > @"Testie.1276" said:

> > thats completely fine, just learn how to play the game.

>

> 

> If you say so.

 

In my book, it actually looks he's right. Like most bad players that got carried to platinum by passive & no actual hitting keystrokes game play thinking they soooo good & pros....., kinda shows where you really at! I'm just saying, you maybe not that good.

[Math.5123]

> @"Vieux P.1238" said:

> > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> > > @"Testie.1276" said:

> > > thats completely fine, just learn how to play the game.

> >

> > 

> > If you say so.

>

> In my book, it actually looks he's right. Like most bad players that got carried to platinum by passive & no actual hitting keystrokes game play thinking they soooo good & pros....., kinda shows where you really at! I'm just saying, you maybe not that good.

 

I dare you to name 1 Passive on core guard. Also, I really wish the forums would show peoples rating next to their name. Or have a top 100 exclusive forums where people actually know what they are talking about.

[Halikus.1406]

> @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> > @"Vieux P.1238" said:

> > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> > > > @"Testie.1276" said:

> > > > thats completely fine, just learn how to play the game.

> > >

> > > 

> > > If you say so.

> >

> > In my book, it actually looks he's right. Like most bad players that got carried to platinum by passive & no actual hitting keystrokes game play thinking they soooo good & pros....., kinda shows where you really at! I'm just saying, you maybe not that good.

>

> I dare you to name 1 Passive on core guard. Also, I really wish the forums would show peoples rating next to their name. Or have a top 100 exclusive forums where people actually know what they are talking about.

 

Dude, don't bother arguing with someone trying to make mesmer pose as a "balanced" class in the current patch. You're wasting your time lol

[Math.5123]

> @"Halikus.1406" said:

> > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> > > @"Vieux P.1238" said:

> > > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> > > > > @"Testie.1276" said:

> > > > > thats completely fine, just learn how to play the game.

> > > >

> > > > 

> > > > If you say so.

> > >

> > > In my book, it actually looks he's right. Like most bad players that got carried to platinum by passive & no actual hitting keystrokes game play thinking they soooo good & pros....., kinda shows where you really at! I'm just saying, you maybe not that good.

> >

> > I dare you to name 1 Passive on core guard. Also, I really wish the forums would show peoples rating next to their name. Or have a top 100 exclusive forums where people actually know what they are talking about.

>

> Dude, don't bother arguing with someone trying to make mesmer pose as a "balanced" class in the current patch. You're wasting your time lol

 

Meh, I guess you're right.

[Vieux P.1238]

> @"Halikus.1406" said:

> > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> > > @"Vieux P.1238" said:

> > > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> > > > > @"Testie.1276" said:

> > > > > thats completely fine, just learn how to play the game.

> > > >

> > > > 

> > > > If you say so.

> > >

> > > In my book, it actually looks he's right. Like most bad players that got carried to platinum by passive & no actual hitting keystrokes game play thinking they soooo good & pros....., kinda shows where you really at! I'm just saying, you maybe not that good.

> >

> > I dare you to name 1 Passive on core guard. Also, I really wish the forums would show peoples rating next to their name. Or have a top 100 exclusive forums where people actually know what they are talking about.

>

> Dude, don't bother arguing with someone trying to make mesmer pose as a "balanced" class in the current patch. You're wasting your time lol

 

Did i say it was balance? Let me tell you something & quote me on this. All class in this game have bad balance issues. But mesmers is not godmode. You all have trouble figuring out witch is witch cuz you all use to have it ez to gank the right target right off the bat. It's just not as ez now that you all can't take as much damage as before. But i dare any of you...

show me where on this patch list did mesmer get buffed that made it OP ..show me? any of you!

[Math.5123]

> @"Vieux P.1238" said:

> show me where on last patch list did mesmer get buffed that made it OP ..show me? any of you!

 

Okay, Ill bite. For the last time.

Disenchanter;

This attack is unblockable and removes 5 boons from the targets it strikes.

The base attack damage has been increased by 300%.

This attack deals 250% more damage against foes without boons.

 

Avenger;

The phantasm summoned by this skill no longer applies alacrity when it attacks. Its attack damage has been increased by 160%

 

Defender;

Damage: 452 (452*5=2260) (This means the base damage is over double that of pre-nerfed True Shot. Albeit with a lower damage coefficient.

Maximum Damage Increase: 500%

 

Signet of the Ether: Reduced the cooldown from 35 seconds to 30 seconds in PvP and WvW.

 

Phantasms: Phantasms can no longer be shattered and no longer count toward your maximum illusion count. Phantasms are destroyed and then replaced by clones after completing their unique attack or if their attack is interrupted.

 

When using weapon skill 1 with a sword, increased the damage of the mesmer's first two attacks by 7%. Increased the damage of the final sword attack by 11% against foes with boons and by 51% against foes with no boons.

 

Phantasmal Warlock: This skill now summons two warlocks that channel a beam on your target, inflicting 2 stacks of vulnerability for 5 seconds. Each beam hits 3 times. (rendering any block X amount of attacks useless.)

 

This is the last time Ill try to keep a constructive conversation with you. All of these changes contributed to the monster that is Mesmer as of the 11/4-2018. This is not taking into account the downstate phantasm, but that's just icing on the cake. Because it's not like Mesmers ever go down anyway.

 

Edit; picture of a casual 8k auto from sword on a Chrono build.

 

[Vieux P.1238]

> @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> > @"Vieux P.1238" said:

> > show me where on last patch list did mesmer get buffed that made it OP ..show me? any of you!

>

> Okay, Ill bite. For the last time.

> Disenchanter;

> This attack is unblockable and removes 5 boons from the targets it strikes.

> The base attack damage has been increased by 300%.

> This attack deals 250% more damage against foes without boons.

>

Summon an illusion that removes boons from targets it hits. This attack deals increased damage against foes without boons.

Damage without Boons: 1,007 (1.0)? (Woopdido)

Damage with Boons: 403 (0.4)? ( Oh my that's so OP, nerf this)

Boons Removed: 5 (Nice one when it lands. Use to be 2 boons & 2 conditions every 2 seconds, & you call this a buff?)

Number of Bounces: 4

Range: 900

Unblockable **(Oh it's unblockable.. i can't dodge or eveade or even super speed my way out of the bounce. Oh! right..i can)**

 

> Avenger;

> The phantasm summoned by this skill no longer applies alacrity when it attacks. Its attack damage has been increased by 160%

(You can revert it back & give me back my alacrity any time plz)

>

> Defender;

> Damage: 452 (452*5=2260) (This means the base damage is over double that of pre-nerfed True Shot. Albeit with a lower damage coefficient.

> Maximum Damage Increase: 500%

**(OMG..GODMODE ALERT!) Dosent most Classes do more damage on there AA like idk Dagger thief or Guard Hammer?**

>

> Signet of the Ether: Reduced the cooldown from 35 seconds to 30 seconds in PvP and WvW.

**(Really, 5 sec reduction...? you call this a buff that makes it OP?)**

>

> Phantasms: Phantasms can no longer be shattered and no longer count toward your maximum illusion count. Phantasms are destroyed and then replaced by clones after completing their unique attack or if their attack is interrupted.

**(You can revert it back as it was before & would kick even more kittens. I don't mind. Only difference now is that you all have a hard time telling who is who.)**

>

> When using weapon skill 1 with a sword, increased the damage of the mesmer's first two attacks by 7%. Increased the damage of the final sword attack by 11% against foes with boons and by 51% against foes with no boons.

**( That's not a buff that's putting our AA back into the same level as all other classes. & We still not up to par) **

>

> Phantasmal Warlock: This skill now summons two warlocks that channel a beam on your target, inflicting 2 stacks of vulnerability for 5 seconds. Each beam hits 3 times. (rendering any block X amount of attacks useless.)

Damage (3x): 498 (0.45)?

Vulnerability (5s): 2% Incoming Damage, 2% Incoming Condition Damage

Number of Targets: 3

Range: 1,200

**(Yep that's really OP'ed & theres no dodge or evades or anyway to defend from it either. or is it?)**

 

 

> This is the last time Ill try to keep a constructive conversation with you. All of these changes contributed to the monster that is Mesmer as of the 11/4-2018. This is not taking into account the downstate phantasm, but that's just icing on the cake. Because it's not like Mesmers ever go down anyway.

>

**Your arguments are a joke. I asked to show any buff this patch that made Mesmers OP & this is what you came up with? The fact is besides confusing ppl on witch of the clones is the real player there are none. The real issue is not from the mesmer itself but from what was taken from all other classes on this patch. The free ride you all had is over. Core classes is back up to play because of it. So is the mesmer. To bad none of you actually developed the true sense of figuring out how to build & counter play the mesmer. Yeah sure it is harder to kill a mesmer cuz it's harder to figure out witch one it is. You just gonna have to get good **

 

> Edit; picture of a casual 8k auto from sword on a Chrono build.

>

 

 

[sephiroth.4217]

> @"Uncle Dalty.8327" said:

> > @"Shaogin.2679" said:

> > So this comes from the "Disenchanter" Chronomancer build. A build that uses the Paladin amulet. A build described on MetaBattle as "A tanky PvP chronomancer build primarily made to 1v1." But this tanky build is doing stuff such as this:

> > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> > > 

> > > Considering only 2 out of the 4 attacks from the Avenger landed a critical hit on me. The defensive **BLOCKING ABILITY** "only" hit me for a whopping 19321 damage.

> > > This would be somewhat okay if this wasn't a defensive ability. If it didnt couple 19k damage with a 3 second block.

> > >

> > > If they all would've crit the damage would output would've been increased to 26876. In 1 skill, which is once again. **A BLOCK**

> > >

> > > @Arenanet still waiting for an update.

> > >

> > > Edit: I used my dodges to dodge the Defenders / Disenchanters so don't bother coming with kitten like "just dodge". Because in reality, you should not have to dodge a block.

> >

> > And then of course Mesmer mains be like:

> > > @"Vieux P.1238" said:

> > > You want to nerf Chrono becuz what? becuz it counters your build. You need to tweak your build instead of asking for a nerf. Cuz Chrono is way not overpowered. Your problem is you can't deal with a Boon removal build. Weird, i can with your build despite it counters my guardian as much as you. You just want it easy instead of looking for some special tweak that will help you out. I'm sorry i can't follow your reasoning & not going to agree with you cuz your build can't deal with it.

> >

> > Now as a Power Reaper I don't have issues with these Chronomancers since I have unblockable AoE damage and enough pressure and cc to take down a bunker solo, but see I pay for that damage by being super squishy. It is never cool to put out high damage AND be tanky. Didn't we nerf Scrapper several times for stuff like this? And trying to deny a problem exists despite it being blatantly obvious in the community and insulting people that are simply discussing an issue is a horrible way to convince anyone that you are anything more than a biased Mesmer main just desperately trying to avoid nerfs.

>

> I don't think it's the mesmer MAINS who are saying that mes isn't broken.... it's the bandwagon riders. Any mesmer mains are proposing detailed(ish) solutions on how to tone down mes without gutting the class completely.

 

Yea it pretty obvious who the mains are....

 

Main: "X trait and Y skill are over performing...."

Everyone else: "Nerf the whole class, nerf all shatters, nerf all damage, nerf visual clutter, nerf chrono traits, nerf mirage traits, nerf Em, nerf target breaking, nerf boons, nerf all the builds that kill me to quick, nerf all the builds that stay alive too long, nerf all the mobility, nerf the clones and nerf the phantasms, its all broken OP but most importantly, nerf portal has been broken OP since PoF."

[OriOri.8724]

> @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> > @"Vieux P.1238" said:

> > show me where on last patch list did mesmer get buffed that made it OP ..show me? any of you!

>

> Defender;

> Damage: 452 (452*5=2260) (This means the base damage is over double that of pre-nerfed True Shot. Albeit with a lower damage coefficient.

> Maximum Damage Increase: 500%

 

Not disagreeing with anything you wrote, because a bunch of our phantasms do need to actually be balanced, but I really don't understand why you are comparing Defender with pre-nerf trueshot? Comparing a utility summon with a 50 second CD versus a weapon skill that had a 4 second CD is kind of strange honestly. Once you account for CDs, pre nerf trueshot was significantly more powerful than defender is right now. Even accounting for SotE, defender has a 30 second CD, 7.5x longer than pre-nerf trueshot, and 5 times longer than post nerf trueshot.

 

I'm not happy with iDefender or disenchanter right now. But to compare them to trueshot is more than a bit silly.

[Kageseigi.2150]

> @"ToPNoP.2493" said:

> > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> > 

> > Considering only 2 out of the 4 attacks from the Avenger landed a critical hit on me. The defensive **BLOCKING ABILITY** "only" hit me for a whopping 19321 damage.

> > This would be somewhat okay if this wasn't a defensive ability. If it didnt couple 19k damage with a 3 second block.

> >

> > If they all would've crit the damage would output would've been increased to 26876. In 1 skill, which is once again. **A BLOCK**

> >

> > @Arenanet still waiting for an update.

> >

> > Edit: I used my dodges to dodge the Defenders / Disenchanters so don't bother coming with kitten like "just dodge". Because in reality, you should not have to dodge a block.

>

> I have recently been defeated by simply hitting Mesmer.

 

Welcome to the Brotherhood of Thieves.

We've been dying from hitting things for years.

[Math.5123]

> @"OriOri.8724" said:

> > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> > > @"Vieux P.1238" said:

> > > show me where on last patch list did mesmer get buffed that made it OP ..show me? any of you!

> >

> > Defender;

> > Damage: 452 (452*5=2260) (This means the base damage is over double that of pre-nerfed True Shot. Albeit with a lower damage coefficient.

> > Maximum Damage Increase: 500%

>

> Not disagreeing with anything you wrote, because a bunch of our phantasms do need to actually be balanced, but I really don't understand why you are comparing Defender with pre-nerf trueshot? Comparing a utility summon with a 50 second CD versus a weapon skill that had a 4 second CD is kind of strange honestly. Once you account for CDs, pre nerf trueshot was significantly more powerful than defender is right now. Even accounting for SotE, defender has a 30 second CD, 7.5x longer than pre-nerf trueshot, and 5 times longer than post nerf trueshot.

>

> I'm not happy with iDefender or disenchanter right now. But to compare them to trueshot is more than a bit silly.

 

For two reasons. One; ArenaNets reasoning for tuning it down was because they didn't like "abilities capable of doing large portions of peoples health".

Two; iDefender has the opportunity to hit 4 times during the timespan of 30 seconds, which is actually pretty close to the old True Shot.

 

Also, the person I quoted drew comparisons to DH during it's prime in another thread.

[FyzE.3472]

**Profession Skills

Mesmer

 

Shatterstorm: Fixed a bug with this trait that allowed repeated use of Mind Wrack in conjunction with Continuum Split.**

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/35746/game-update-notes-april-10-2018