Don’t you want legendary armor outside of raids?

[Voltekka.2375]

I have followed every similar topic (about pve leg armor). Let us be honest, here: It was never about the QoL leggy armor provides (statswapping and runeswapping). It was about the exclusive skins. I am not raiding, btw. But i have to agree with the raiders' mentality that noone else should be entitled to envoy skin, other than those who raid. No easy mode or whatever. Raids and a plethora of videos with strategies and builds exist.

OW pve has a lot of skins, exclusive skins (latest backpack is semi-legendaryish in appearance, with its cute animation) . Equal rewards and same rewards are different concepts. Time spent and effort spent, are also different concepts. Should a doctor earn the same as a ski patroller? Dont they both put in time to their jobs? (crude example, as crafting for 200 hours and raiding for 200 hours are not even remotely comparable). Open world is the easiest mode the game provides. There is no challenge (apart from maybe Serpent's Ire, and there is no shortage of "pls nerf event" already). You want a legendary armor as an OW pver? Fine. But you will get it sPVP and WvW way, which means it will be a rework of another existing skin (maybe the default ascended Illustrious skin), it will be heavily time-gated (OW is not a challenge, as previously stated) and it will make people grind like there is no tomorrow (people also complained heavily about the druid stone backpack, in Draconis Mons with the daily heart grind, for some reason). Why? Because it is fair to the other modes.

[Hyper Cutter.9376]

> @"Oglaf.1074" said:

> Why should there be friggin two PvE legendary armour sets? “Because I don’t want to Raid” really isn’t reason enough.

Because raids are explicitly, per Anet's own words, not intended for the majority of players. And therefore, the majority of players are locked out of legendary armor (unlike legendary weapons, which literally anyone can make).

[Oglaf.1074]

> @"Hyper Cutter.9376" said:

> > @"Oglaf.1074" said:

> > Why should there be friggin two PvE legendary armour sets? “Because I don’t want to Raid” really isn’t reason enough.

> Because raids are explicitly, per Anet's own words, not intended for the majority of players. And therefore, the majority of players are locked out of legendary armor (unlike legendary weapons, which literally anyone can make).

 

And that’s why Legendary armour has prestige still attached to it whereas the weapons don’t. Armour should not be buyable with a credit card like the weapons. That is a bad, baaad thing.

 

Also, that now-infamous quote by Anet is _wrong_: anyone can learn how to raid if they are willing to put effort into it.

 

[Alehin.3746]

yessss pls anet give me leggy armor i'm the consumer i'm always right

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Miellyn.6847" said:

> > @"Fenom.9457" said:

> > > @"Miellyn.6847" said:

> > > What is the purpose of this poll? Legendary armor is already accessible outside of raids. Do people willingly ignore everything to force their own agenda? Or is it about the skin?

> >

> > Said multiple times it’s about the skin

>

> So why does your thread title and poll ask for legendary armor and not envoy skin?

He did say in the very first post it's not specifically about the _envoy_ skin. Just a legendary one.

 

> @"Oglaf.1074" said:

> > @"Hyper Cutter.9376" said:

> > > @"Oglaf.1074" said:

> > > Why should there be friggin two PvE legendary armour sets? “Because I don’t want to Raid” really isn’t reason enough.

> > Because raids are explicitly, per Anet's own words, not intended for the majority of players. And therefore, the majority of players are locked out of legendary armor (unlike legendary weapons, which literally anyone can make).

>

> And that’s why Legendary armour has prestige still attached to it whereas the weapons don’t.

Only in your own eyes. There's no real prestige coming from liking a niche content.

 

> Armour should not be buyable with a credit card like the weapons. That is a bad, baaad thing.

original gen2 weapons and aurora show that they don't have to be. I wouldn't expect core pve legendary armor to be directly buyable either.

(also, raid selling)

 

> Also, that now-infamous quote by Anet is _wrong_: anyone can learn how to raid if they are willing to put effort into it.

That's debatable. It's besides the point however - the truth remains that Raids aren't intended for the majority of players. They never were. And that's a design goal, one with which most current raiders agree with. It's one thing to say "anyone can do raids", but if at some point really most people started doing raids, current raiders would immediately ask for the difficulty level to be brought up, to keep the content exclusive.

 

It's like being wealthy. You can say "anyone can do it", but only when we look at singular cases. Because it's "anyone", but never "everyone".

(and even that "anyone" is not really true).

 

So, we're back to the original point: the only legendary armor in PvE is locked beyond a content that was never intended for a majority for PvE players. A content that Anet knew from the beginning a majority of PvE players would never be interested in, and would not touch.

 

 

 

[Oglaf.1074]

Again with you people telling raiders how we think. Tsk tsk tsk. As I said - as a raider with full Legendary armour for my main, and more than enough LI to make another if I do wish it - I don’t want to exclude people from Raids. Far from it. I find the current catch 22 with having to need LI to be able to get your first LI to be a serious problem and Anet should step in and make getting started with Raiding to be less stupid - anyone who has the drive and desire to Raid should be allowed to relatively easy at least get to try it out.

 

I don’t want to _exclude players from Raids_ but I’m very adamant in keeping the Envoy Legendary armour _exclusive to Raids_.

 

See how that is quite different from what you’re trying to tell me I believe?

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Oglaf.1074" said:

> Again with you people telling raiders how we think. Tsk tsk tsk. As I said - as a raider with full Legendary armour for my main, and more than enough LI to make another if I do wish it - I don’t want to exclude people from Raids. Far from it. I find the current catch 22 with having to need LI to be able to get your first LI to be a serious problem and Anet should step in and make getting started with Raiding to be less stupid - anyone who has the drive and desire to Raid should be allowed to relatively easy at least get to try it out.

>

> I don’t want to _exclude players from Raids_ but I’m very adamant in keeping the Envoy Legendary armour _exclusive to Raids_.

>

> See how that is quite different from what you’re trying to tell me I believe?

Not really, since what we're talking about is not an Envoy armor, but an access to a legendary armor (preferably with its own unique skin) outside of raids. Which you have been told several times already. Not to mention most of your comments against having legendary armor not being accessible outside raids do not mention envoy or raid set specifically, but are general in nature. In fact, in one of your statements i have quoted you were specifically mentioning more than one PvE legendary armor (and were against the idea of a second set), so it's not like i have misunderstood you.

[Oglaf.1074]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"Oglaf.1074" said:

> > Again with you people telling raiders how we think. Tsk tsk tsk. As I said - as a raider with full Legendary armour for my main, and more than enough LI to make another if I do wish it - I don’t want to exclude people from Raids. Far from it. I find the current catch 22 with having to need LI to be able to get your first LI to be a serious problem and Anet should step in and make getting started with Raiding to be less stupid - anyone who has the drive and desire to Raid should be allowed to relatively easy at least get to try it out.

> >

> > I don’t want to _exclude players from Raids_ but I’m very adamant in keeping the Envoy Legendary armour _exclusive to Raids_.

> >

> > See how that is quite different from what you’re trying to tell me I believe?

> Not really, since what we're talking about is not an Envoy armor, but an access to a legendary armor (preferably with its own unique skin) outside of raids.

 

The OP specifically mentions the envoy skin.

[nosleepdemon.1368]

No, they are obtained as a reward from raiding. There are plenty of other skins to obtain in the game, you can't have them all if you are not prepared to play the entire game. No ifs, no buts, don't throw your toys out of the entitlement pram. I don't raid, but I do play SAB like a mofo. If motos red and blue infusions were available to everyone with enough bauble bubbles, I'd be miffed too. Tl;dr: You don't deserve the reward if you don't want to do the challenge.

[Raizel.8175]

> @"Ashen.2907" said:

> > @"Raizel.8175" said:

> > The only problem I see with "PvE" legendary armor is the missing accessibility of raid-content. GW2 is basically the MMORPG with the least accessible endgame-content I've ever played (and that's a lot after playing MMORPGs for more than a decade).

>

> I am honestly curious as to what you mean by this.

>

> Currently one can be outfitted with gear sufficient for raiding and fractals, in GW2, within seconds of reaching max level. Getting to current top tier raids and the like in some other games Ive seen, or heard of, involves a lengthy gearing up process.

 

Accessibility isn't about gear-requirements, it's about a welcoming community. The raid-community is far from welcoming due to various design-choices.

 

1. **Lack of natural difficulty-progression.** First, let us actually take your gear-treadmill-example to elaborate: Like you already stated, in traditional MMORPGs, you have a gear-treadmill that usually serves as the main character-progression-system. Those treadmills are usually bound to instanced PvE-content in a way that the harder the content gets, the better gear you receive. Such game-design leads to a natural difficulty-progression-system where people have to learn to carry their own weight and other people don't have to worry all that much about the skill of a person. In GW2 though, you basically have no difficulty-progression as the Story- and OW-content as GW2s main-content is - in its entirety - far too easy and won't teach you to carry your own weight. The auto-attack-mentality is not the only problem though; there's also the gameplay-shift from self-sufficient to trinity-based combat. This already leads to a certain two-class-society where some raiding players think they're some sort of better person and that non-raiding people are trash at least gameplay-wise; where people vastly overglorify raid-content ("the hardest content of the game", "only for the best", bla bla bla...), even though it indeed is just another form of instanced PvE-content and certainly not as hard as people feign it to be. (On a sidenote: This also leads to many people being meta-slaves.)

 

2. **Lack of natural party-building.** Secondly, this game suffers from being rather un-sociable. Where in more traditional MMORPGs, you're often forced to team up with other people to clear content and have downtimes to regenerate HP/MP (and which you can use to chat with people), GW2 actively suppresses people to team up. There's absolutely no incentive to team up with other people (and thus favor socializing). You get boons from other people without even being in a party/squad. It doesn't matter participation-wise if you're in a party/squad or not. There are no party/squad-boons. This is actually made worse by the too easy Story- and OW-content, where people don't really have to cooperate with each other (and when they have to, they may even cry about it (Hello Serpent's Ire!)), by the lack of a world-chat and also because of the megaserver-architecture GW2 uses (meaning no server-identity, no limited pool of players). GW2 is actually designed in a way in which it enforces the fragmentation of the community into certain bubbles rather than having a homogenous community. Further indulging into skill-splits for WvW/PvP even seems that ANet is admitting that they're unable to do so (at least gameplay-wise).

 

3. **Lack of publicity.** While there are some training-guilds, they don't really matter since the game suffers from the lack of publicity. We don't have a world-chat where these guilds can promote themselves. The LFG is rather clunky and very rudimentary. We don't have a decent guild-browser, which the game is in dire need of, especially considering the upcoming WvW-restructuring. That's also considering that the forum and especially reddit aren't helpful. Only a minority of people are even using these sources (if you are a bit more sophisticated, you'll probably know of the 80/15/5 / 80/20/5 rule). Training-, raid-guilds and statics need an ingame-platform that enables them to promote themselves and be visible to the general playerbase.

 

4. **The ease of excluding people.** This game makes it too easy to exclude people from content. Sure, gear-requirements like in 1. can also exclude people but rather in a soft way because you are actually able to work towards the gear you need. In GW2 though, we have the ability to post LI and KP. That ability hard-locks people out of content and is even supplemented by the API. It's not just hard-locking people out of content (which is already rather bad game design), it also leads to being unable to get into content via skill since skill is bound to strongly to (buyable!) titles, LI and KP. In other games, it's fairly easy possible to get into content by simply lying and - then - by convincing through skill. It's not like raid-content is that hard. We already have dozens of guides. For people who want to get into raid-content, two or three times doing a certain encounter alongside reading guides should be sufficient to internalize mechanics. You shouldn't already need a job to get a job. That's one of the main-problems to get into raiding. Raid-content in GW2 is far too overglorified.

 

5. **Class-inbalance/the lack of true cooperation.** Since the community at large is very susceptible to the META, we also have the problem of class-inbalance, namely the atrocious game-design around Chrono and Druid which mostly (beside some odd jobs at certain encounters) deal with every mechanic because they're over-utilized (besides also being the main-tank and -heal and also the most atrocious boon-bots of the game). This leads to a lack of true cooperation and makes both Chrono and Druid mandatory in 3 or 4 slots out of 10. 11% of the specialization-pool (even ignoring core-specs that way) occupying up to 40% of the slots of a raid-squad will ultimately lock people playing other classes out since the aforementioned ratio is far from being healthy. Also: If people were forced to cooperate on a deeper level, they may be forced to use TS or Discord. Excluding a person you're talking with generally is somewhat harder than kicking a person that's just in your typical LFG-squad without TS/Discord.

 

6. **Lack of replayability through reward-structures**. The raid-reward-structures are garbage. While I get why there's an account-wide weekly cap (it's too easy to get geared in GW2 thus there's literally no sense of class-identity in this game), it ultimately hurts squad-building. It doesn't matter at all if I have friends I could raid with. If they already have a static, they probably won't raid with me since they already got their rewards and thus get nothing out would they also raid with me. ...and yes, I know that changing reward-structures could also further incentivize raid-sellers. Game-developers are also payed for solving problems in a creative way though.

 

7. **The initial stance of ANet.** Whoever at ANet thought it was wise to promote raids with the stance that "they aren't for everyone" really wasn't a wise person. Many people think they meant that in a way that raids are only for the best players out there thus enforcing some stupid pseudo-elitism. Raids indeed should be the weekly main-event considering instanced PvE-content, especially since they hold one of the main-rewards of the game. It's not like they couldn't be. Legendary armor isn't even bound to CMs, you just have to do the normal mode which arguably is content designed for the masses.

 

The combination of all these points leads - in my opinion - to raids being widely inaccessible. YMMV of course.

[Oglaf.1074]

> @"Raizel.8175" said:

> > @"Ashen.2907" said:

> > > @"Raizel.8175" said:

> > > The only problem I see with "PvE" legendary armor is the missing accessibility of raid-content. GW2 is basically the MMORPG with the least accessible endgame-content I've ever played (and that's a lot after playing MMORPGs for more than a decade).

> >

> > I am honestly curious as to what you mean by this.

> >

> > Currently one can be outfitted with gear sufficient for raiding and fractals, in GW2, within seconds of reaching max level. Getting to current top tier raids and the like in some other games Ive seen, or heard of, involves a lengthy gearing up process.

>

> Accessibility isn't about gear-requirements, it's about a welcoming community. The raid-community is far from welcoming due to various design-choices.

>

> 1. **Lack of natural difficulty-progression.** First, let us actually take your gear-treadmill-example to elaborate: Like you already stated, in traditional MMORPGs, you have a gear-treadmill that usually serves as the main character-progression-system. Those treadmills are usually bound to instanced PvE-content in a way that the harder the content gets, the better gear you receive. Such game-design leads to a natural difficulty-progression-system where people have to learn to carry their own weight and other people don't have to worry all that much about the skill of a person. In GW2 though, you basically have no difficulty-progression as the Story- and OW-content as GW2s main-content is - in its entirety - far too easy and won't teach you to carry your own weight. The auto-attack-mentality is not the only problem though; there's also the gameplay-shift from self-sufficient to trinity-based combat. This already leads to a certain two-class-society where some raiding players think they're some sort of better person and that non-raiding people are trash at least gameplay-wise; where people vastly overglorify raid-content ("the hardest content of the game", "only for the best", bla bla bla...), even though it indeed is just another form of instanced PvE-content and certainly not as hard as people feign it to be. (On a sidenote: This also leads to many people being meta-slaves.)

>

> 2. **Lack of natural party-building.** Secondly, this game suffers from being rather un-sociable. Where in more traditional MMORPGs, you're often forced to team up with other people to clear content and have downtimes to regenerate HP/MP (and which you can use to chat with people), GW2 actively suppresses people to team up. There's absolutely no incentive to team up with other people (and thus favor socializing). You get boons from other people without even being in a party/squad. It doesn't matter participation-wise if you're in a party/squad or not. There are no party/squad-boons. This is actually made worse by the too easy Story- and OW-content, where people don't really have to cooperate with each other (and when they have to, they may even cry about it (Hello Serpent's Ire!)), by the lack of a world-chat and also because of the megaserver-architecture GW2 uses (meaning no server-identity, no limited pool of players). GW2 is actually designed in a way in which it enforces the fragmentation of the community into certain bubbles rather than having a homogenous community. Further indulging into skill-splits for WvW/PvP even seems that ANet is admitting that they're unable to do so (at least gameplay-wise).

>

> 3. **Lack of publicity.** While there are some training-guilds, they don't really matter since the game suffers from the lack of publicity. We don't have a world-chat where these guilds can promote themselves. The LFG is rather clunky and very rudimentary. We don't have a decent guild-browser, which the game is in dire need of, especially considering the upcoming WvW-restructuring. That's also considering that the forum and especially reddit aren't helpful. Only a minority of people are even using these sources (if you are a bit more sophisticated, you'll probably know of the 80/15/5 / 80/20/5 rule). Training-, raid-guilds and statics need an ingame-platform that enables them to promote themselves and be visible to the general playerbase.

>

> 4. **The ease of excluding people.** This game makes it too easy to exclude people from content. Sure, gear-requirements like in 1. can also exclude people but rather in a soft way because you are actually able to work towards the gear you need. In GW2 though, we have the ability to post LI and KP. That ability hard-locks people out of content and is even supplemented by the API. It's not just hard-locking people out of content (which is already rather bad game design), it also leads to being unable to get into content via skill since skill is bound to strongly to (buyable!) titles, LI and KP. In other games, it's fairly easy possible to get into content by simply lying and - then - by convincing through skill. It's not like raid-content is that hard. We already have dozens of guides. For people who want to get into raid-content, two or three times doing a certain encounter alongside reading guides should be sufficient to internalize mechanics. Raid-content in GW2 is far too overglorified.

>

> 5. **Class-inbalance/the lack of true cooperation.** Since the community at large is very susceptible to the META, we also have the problem of class-inbalance, namely the atrocious game-design around Chrono and Druid which mostly (beside some odd jobs at certain encounters) deal with every mechanic because they're over-utilized (besides also being the main-tank and -heal and also the most atrocious boon-bots of the game). This leads to a lack of true cooperation and makes both Chrono and Druid mandatory in 3 or 4 slots out of 10. 11% of the specialization-pool (even ignoring core-specs that way) occupying up to 40% of the slots of a raid-squad will ultimately lock people playing other classes out since the aforementioned ratio is far from being healthy. Also: If people were forced to cooperate on a deeper level, they may be forced to use TS or Discord. Excluding a person you're talking with generally is somewhat harder than kicking a person that's just in your typical LFG-squad without TS/Discord.

>

> 6. **Lack of replayability through reward-structures**. The raid-reward-structures are garbage. While I get why there's an account-wide weekly cap (it's too easy to get geared in GW2 thus there's literally no sense of class-identity in this game), it ultimately hurts squad-building. It doesn't matter at all if I have friends I could raid with. If they already have a static, they probably won't raid with me since they already got their rewards and thus get nothing out would they also raid with me. ...and yes, I know that changing reward-structures could also further incentivize raid-sellers. Game-developers are also payed for solving problems in a creative way though.

>

> 7. **The initial stance of ANet.** Whoever at ANet thought it was wise to promote raids with the stance that "they aren't for everyone" really wasn't a wise person. Many people think they meant that in a way that raids are only for the best players out there thus enforcing some stupid pseudo-elitism. Raids indeed should be the weekly main-event considering instanced PvE-content, especially since they hold one of the main-rewards of the game. It's not like they couldn't be. Legendary armor isn't even bound to CMs, you just have to do the normal mode which arguably is content designed for the masses.

>

> The combination of all these points leads - in my opinion - to raids being widely inaccessible. YMMV of course.

 

Very, very well summarized.

[Lunateric.3708]

It's fine for envoy armor to be raid exclusive. I don't really mind if they make legendary armor avaliable through other easier means but it won't have envoy armor skins.

 

If people can cope with that maybe it could be worthwhile but something tells me the amount of players that actually gives a flying chicken about legendary armor **and** don't want to/won't be able to raid isn't exactly high.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Oglaf.1074" said:

> > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > @"Oglaf.1074" said:

> > > Again with you people telling raiders how we think. Tsk tsk tsk. As I said - as a raider with full Legendary armour for my main, and more than enough LI to make another if I do wish it - I don’t want to exclude people from Raids. Far from it. I find the current catch 22 with having to need LI to be able to get your first LI to be a serious problem and Anet should step in and make getting started with Raiding to be less stupid - anyone who has the drive and desire to Raid should be allowed to relatively easy at least get to try it out.

> > >

> > > I don’t want to _exclude players from Raids_ but I’m very adamant in keeping the Envoy Legendary armour _exclusive to Raids_.

> > >

> > > See how that is quite different from what you’re trying to tell me I believe?

> > Not really, since what we're talking about is not an Envoy armor, but an access to a legendary armor (preferably with its own unique skin) outside of raids.

>

> The OP specifically mentions the envoy skin.

Umm...

 

> @"Fenom.9457" said:

> When I refer to armor outside of raids I mean skins - the same set as raids or (**preferably**) a second one.

See the bolded part? And what's after it? Right...

 

Besides

 

> @"Oglaf.1074" said:

> Why should there be friggin two PvE legendary armour sets?

You are already aware of that.

 

And there was also that post where you partically said outright that non-raid pve doesn't deserve any legendary armor.

 

[mindcircus.1506]

> @"Oglaf.1074" said:

> Let’s be real here: “Open world PvE Legendary” is really just a code word for “gold sink”. One can easily buy 99% mats needed for a “open world PvE” legendary weapon with a Credit Card.

>

> The value of Legendary Armour, be it PvE or PvP, is that unlike the weapons you cannot Pay2Win it. You have to earn it.

 

Only this is not true. If it were, raid selling would not be a thing.

There are plenty of people credit card farming to pay for carries in raids.

 

While I agree with a lot of what you wrote, Arenanet's stance that raid selling is fine invalidates this point completely.

You can certainly p2w legendary armor in pve.

 

[TheNecrosanct.4028]

I'm fine with legendary armor being obtainable in a PvE environment outside of Raids. However, Envoy skins are Raid skins and should therefore not be obtainable through other means. There are plenty of other Raid skins that are only available in Raids and I've never heard anyone complain about those. It's always about the legendary armor and/or its skins.

 

Considering how much time went into making the current 3 Raid legendary armor skin sets, I highly doubt ANet is going to invest time and resources into creating a second set. If they ever created a new set of legendary armor skins for non-Raid PvE, people would be clamoring for unique skins for PvP and WvW legendary armor even more, and rightfully so.

 

There is nothing wrong with unique rewards/skins for different game modes. Dungeons have it, Fractals, PvP, WvW and Raids as well. If they had to make unique skins for PvP and WvW legendary armor, they likely still wouldn't have finished all of it. And even if they did, queue all the complaints about skins from X game mode being "better" than skins from Y game mode. It's the age old cliche of never being able to please everyone. And if it truly was a matter of principle, we should've had these requests ever since the launch of the game for dungeon skins, and then for Fractal skins, etc.

 

TL;DR legendary PvE armor outside of raids: yes. Identical skins as legendary Raid armor: no.

[mindcircus.1506]

> @"vesica tempestas.1563" said:

> A pve player spending 200 hours practicing raids will result in legendaries and vice versa. the issue is raiders thinking their time is more important because the time distribution for raiding is different, its not, 1 persons 200 hours is just as valuable as another.

 

Player 1 AFK farms on a necro for 200 hours.

Player 2 does fractals and plays hard for 200 hours.

You really think both players should see equal rewards?

 

Player 1 Jumps into WvW and plays their butt off for 200 hours.

Player 2 Pip farms, semi afk and only switches maps to keep their Outnumbered buff. for 200 hours

Both should see the same rewards?

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"mindcircus.1506" said:

> Player 1 Jumps into WvW and plays their butt off for 200 hours.

> Player 2 Pip farms, semi afk and only switches maps to keep their Outnumbered buff. for 200 hours

> Both should see the same rewards?

The second one will get their pips faster due to outnumbered buff.

 

But seriously, both your examples are bad, because you have in them one person that does something, and another that afks. Now, if you were to compare player 2 from first example with player 1 from second example, then yes, they should be rewarded comparatively.

[DeanBB.4268]

Sure, I'm in favor of other means of acquiring legendary armor. Personally, I'd prefer it to just be offered in the Gem Store.

[vesica tempestas.1563]

> @"mindcircus.1506" said:

> > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said:

> > A pve player spending 200 hours practicing raids will result in legendaries and vice versa. the issue is raiders thinking their time is more important because the time distribution for raiding is different, its not, 1 persons 200 hours is just as valuable as another.

>

> Player 1 AFK farms on a necro for 200 hours.

> Player 2 does fractals and plays hard for 200 hours.

> You really think both players should see equal rewards?

>

> Player 1 Jumps into WvW and plays their butt off for 200 hours.

> Player 2 Pip farms, semi afk and only switches maps to keep their Outnumbered buff. for 200 hours

> Both should see the same rewards?

 

nope they should not obviously, curious why there's a need to qualify with the little 'afk strawman eh.

 

Il fix it:

 

Player 1 works his butt of with 200 huurs of high skilled pvp play.

Player 2 works his butt off for 200 hours doing something else.

 

same person, same time, different skills, different scheduling.

 

The problem is people with tunnel vision in a mmorpg that has been training to think rote memorization of a fight over and over equates to the must get better rewards than anyone else. repeat same strategy, wipe 20 times a night until its burnt into your muscles is not that difficult it just requires you to condense your time played into bigger chunks of contiguous play. Now rewarding faster rewards for that condensed play - that's reasonable.

 

 

[Arkantos.7460]

im fine with ascend gear just doing legendary gear in pvp cause just for fun

[Jojo.6140]

Sure, and while they are at it they might just aswell make fractal weapons available outside of fractals, WvW backpack skin outside of WvW, Llama minis outside of PvP, Teq weapons and Wurm armor outside of pve etc.

Watering down everything to be available everywhere would certainly be a great change that would make the game so much more interesting /s

[geochan.9184]

> @"Fenom.9457" said:

> > @"geochan.9184" said:

> > > @"Fenom.9457" said:

> > > > @"geochan.9184" said:

> > > > > @"Khailyn.6248" said:

> > > > > im fully aware you can raid in exotics and im not even a raider. im making a joke at the idea that legendary armor would be useful for raiding but once you have it/the skin, theres no longer that carrot on the stick to keep you playing the game mode. considering legendary armor skins has been kept unique to raids , im quite confident many players are chasing the skin rather than doing it for love of the game mode.

> > > >

> > > > If most people are chasing the skin rather than raiding for fun, then the said 1st point of the practical advantage of the legendary skin is irrelevant to this discussion. Leaving that only 2nd point of having a new skin with effect is relevant, it's fair that legendary has to be obtained thru various difficulties just similar to other legendaries.

> > > >

> > > > Just like all other legendaries, you can also buy it with gold indirectly thru people that is selling raids. Everything has a way.

> > >

> > >

> > > But isn’t each raid like 500 gold per kill? Like thousands of dollars for 150 LI?

> >

> > I don't know, but you can pay for it and that's the point.

>

>

> I get that, but being able to pay for it as in purchasable and able to pay for it as in actually able to even remotely afford it are different

 

Each individual item has their own value and worth. Just like how masterwork items are only worth silvers and that exotics could range to hundred of gold. Similarly to underwater and ground legendary weapons, their value and prices are based with demand and supply. The more the demand, the higher the price, everything is based with the market of the players, this is also true for the raid legendary skin.

 

If you want it, you gotta make effort to obtain it, either raiding or paying, and it's a luxury item so don't expect it to be cheap. If you can't afford it with gold, it means you're not worthy to get it, so start making an effort to either train your raid or earn more gold.

[STIHL.2489]

For those that think Legendary Armor has Presteige attached to it.

 

Keep in mind, people sell raids all the time

 

As such the only Legendary items that have any prestige are HoT and PoF legendary Weapons, those.. you have to earn.. all on your own.

 

 

[Tails.9372]

Yes, I'd like to see another way to obtain legendary armor through (for example) OW PvM (preferably similar to how legendary gear is obtainable for WvW players) but with a different skin, the Envoy skin should stay raid exclusive.

[zealex.9410]

> @"vesica tempestas.1563" said:

> > @"mindcircus.1506" said:

> > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said:

> > > A pve player spending 200 hours practicing raids will result in legendaries and vice versa. the issue is raiders thinking their time is more important because the time distribution for raiding is different, its not, 1 persons 200 hours is just as valuable as another.

> >

> > Player 1 AFK farms on a necro for 200 hours.

> > Player 2 does fractals and plays hard for 200 hours.

> > You really think both players should see equal rewards?

> >

> > Player 1 Jumps into WvW and plays their butt off for 200 hours.

> > Player 2 Pip farms, semi afk and only switches maps to keep their Outnumbered buff. for 200 hours

> > Both should see the same rewards?

>

> nope they should not obviously, curious why there's a need to qualify with the little 'afk strawman eh.

>

> Il fix it:

>

> Player 1 works his butt of with 200 huurs of high skilled pvp play.

> Player 2 works his butt off for 200 hours doing something else.

>

> same person, same time, different skills, different scheduling.

>

> The problem is people with tunnel vision in a mmorpg that has been training to think rote memorization of a fight over and over equates to the must get better rewards than anyone else. repeat same strategy, wipe 20 times a night until its burnt into your muscles is not that difficult it just requires you to condense your time played into bigger chunks of contiguous play. Now rewarding faster rewards for that condensed play - that's reasonable.

>

>

 

Much high skilled pvp in the ow we got.