In-House DPS Meter

[Euryon.9248]

I would love to see Anet put in a "stat meter" that details all of your own personal stats but does not give you anyone else's, and then stated that this and only this meter is allowed in the game, using any other would be a bannable offense.

[Sera.2146]

@"CptAurellian.9537" i see your point. i was mostly thinking of an idea that would take very little effort compared to making one outright.

[ZDragon.3046]

They likely wont because i think some where long ago they wrote something about not wanting to have those kinds of things within the game in the first place to avoid general bs more than likely.

 

most mmo's dont launch without dps meters and they usually come as third party addons. Gw2 is the only game i play in which i never felt i needed to use addons like that or of any kind thus I never used them. Never bought any music toys so i dont use any macro's either. I just play the game lol.

 

Ideally thats what anet wants. you to just play the game and enjoy it they are not concerned with dps meters most developers are not.

The only way I could see them implementing their own dps meter would be in the fourm of a gem store item/ account addon buy or something of that nature. But then people would complain about having to spend gems on it.

 

But i think if you want to ask them to develop their own dps meter just for you to have one when they had no intent on doing so its only fair that you the players pay for it. After all doing such a thing would require time and time is money lost that could have been spent on doing other things.

[Feanor.2358]

> @"AliamRationem.5172" said:

> It's not the first time this has been asked for, but since you're now apparently using no-appeal bans for enforcement and I have no idea of knowing which software is in violation or whether or not first-time offenders are given a warning before such action is taken, I'm obviously not going to take the chance!

>

> So, given all of that, would you please consider developing your own DPS meter? Or find some way of allowing players who want access to this feature to have it without worrying that they're going to be banned for months without warning or recourse?

 

I don't think you have reason to worry about using ArcDPS, at least the last official stances I've seen from ANet were "it's ok to use". Not that I'm against an in-game tool, but you should consider this particular tool is now more than just a dps meter - it is also a working build templates feature. So an in-house solution that renders it obsolete would need to feature both.

[Blaeys.3102]

We do not need Anet adding the resources and developer time needed to manage meters (or addons of any kind, for that matter) when they cannot even dedicate partial developer resources to things like guilds, guild activities, dungeons, legendary quests and other things that would actually add something meaningful to the game.

 

Meters are not needed to enjoy any part of the game and would add very little that isn't available at the special forces training area accessible through the raid lobby.

[ToPNoP.2493]

The problem with dps meters is that they give the user a look at what everyone is running. This game is competitive, so why should someone get to see what others are using? Not being ruler of your build/strategy makes this game much less competitive and drives statements like "nerf." I believe dps meters cause anet personnel headaches because everyone can bandwagon the strongest build before gaining enough experience to create their own. I believe that is where a lot of the imbalance comes from. Dps meters may cost anet money that people would otherwise use to fine tune their gears, add a little damage here, little tank there. A better way would be to ban all third party programs and place whipping posts similar to that in the pvp areas in every instance, such as in wvw and open world. People would be able to test their theory, settings with trinkets and expand into armor as the become more certain they are onto something.

[Yamazuki.6073]

> @"ToPNoP.2493" said:

> The problem with dps meters is that they give the user a look at what everyone is running. This game is competitive, so why should someone get to see what others are using? Not being ruler of your build/strategy makes this game much less competitive and drives statements like "nerf." I believe dps meters cause anet personnel headaches because everyone can bandwagon the strongest build before gaining enough experience to create their own. I believe that is where a lot of the imbalance comes from. Dps meters may cost anet money that people would otherwise use to fine tune their gears, add a little damage here, little tank there.

 

It wouldn't take meters to find out what is the best setup, such a thing has been going on across games even without dps meters to directly see the numbers. The imbalance between certain weapons and trait combinations is so extreme it would be painfully obvious what is sub-optimal.

[ToPNoP.2493]

> @"Yamazuki.6073" said:

> > @"ToPNoP.2493" said:

> > The problem with dps meters is that they give the user a look at what everyone is running. This game is competitive, so why should someone get to see what others are using? Not being ruler of your build/strategy makes this game much less competitive and drives statements like "nerf." I believe dps meters cause anet personnel headaches because everyone can bandwagon the strongest build before gaining enough experience to create their own. I believe that is where a lot of the imbalance comes from. Dps meters may cost anet money that people would otherwise use to fine tune their gears, add a little damage here, little tank there.

>

> It wouldn't take meters to find out what is the best setup, such a thing has been going on across games even without dps meters to directly see the numbers. The imbalance between certain weapons and trait combinations is so extreme it would be painfully obvious what is sub-optimal.

 

A better way would be to ban all third party programs and place whipping posts similar to that in the pvp areas in every instance, such as in wvw and open world. People would be able to test their theory, settings with trinkets and expand into armor as the become more certain they are onto something.

[blambidy.3216]

> @"Blaeys.3102" said:

 

> Meters are not needed to enjoy any part of the game and would add very little that isn't available at the special forces training area accessible through the raid lobby.

 

Clearly bs. A meter is basically to keep you in check to pull your own weight. Other people spy on what the team is doing. But for me honestly I would like to know if I am helping or damaging the group. And if this meter shows, I will like it. Because it makes the team get through fractals, dungeons, raids, and pve content much easier.

 

After all we want to have fun and if you lounge around and make other people pull your weight, it doesn’t make the game fun. People just end up carrying and don’t want to play with you anymore.

So as much as you think it doesn’t, it does. We want to be the best for our team. And sometimes we would like to keep ourselves in check for everyone to have fun.

[Cuddy.6247]

> @"blambidy.3216" said:

> > @"Blaeys.3102" said:

>

> > Meters are not needed to enjoy any part of the game and would add very little that isn't available at the special forces training area accessible through the raid lobby.

>

> Clearly bs. A meter is basically to keep you in check to pull your own weight. Other people spy on what the team is doing. But for me honestly I would like to know if I am helping or damaging the group. And if this meter shows, I will like it. Because it makes the team get through fractals, dungeons, raids, and pve content much easier.

>

> After all we want to have fun and if you lounge around and make other people pull your weight, it doesn’t make the game fun. People just end up carrying and don’t want to play with you anymore.

> So as much as you think it doesn’t, it does. We want to be the best for our team. And sometimes we would like to keep ourselves in check for everyone to have fun.

 

If you want to know your own performance the special forces training area gives you an insightful look at your numbers. Meters aren't all bad, but I'm inclined to agree with Blaeys - they don't even really sport new content for guilds. Among other things, like single-piece armor skins coming out at glacial pace and story episodes being short, the last thing they need to do is make their own DPS meter when the special forces training area serves the function well enough for personal development. It is, after all, a training area - and you can also ideally bring a dedicated team along without using any of the facilities and compare performances.

[blambidy.3216]

> @"Cuddy.6247" said:

> > @"blambidy.3216" said:

> > > @"Blaeys.3102" said:

> >

> > > Meters are not needed to enjoy any part of the game and would add very little that isn't available at the special forces training area accessible through the raid lobby.

> >

> > Clearly bs. A meter is basically to keep you in check to pull your own weight. Other people spy on what the team is doing. But for me honestly I would like to know if I am helping or damaging the group. And if this meter shows, I will like it. Because it makes the team get through fractals, dungeons, raids, and pve content much easier.

> >

> > After all we want to have fun and if you lounge around and make other people pull your weight, it doesn’t make the game fun. People just end up carrying and don’t want to play with you anymore.

> > So as much as you think it doesn’t, it does. We want to be the best for our team. And sometimes we would like to keep ourselves in check for everyone to have fun.

>

> If you want to know your own performance the special forces training area gives you an insightful look at your numbers. Meters aren't all bad, but I'm inclined to agree with Blaeys - they don't even really sport new content for guilds. Among other things, like single-piece armor skins coming out at glacial pace and story episodes being short, the last thing they need to do is make their own DPS meter when the special forces training area serves the function well enough for personal development. It is, after all, a training area - and you can also ideally bring a dedicated team along without using any of the facilities and compare performances.

 

That’s great but it’s not the same. Since the golem only spins every few seconds it’s nothing compared to vg, or any boss actually. Since most bosses move you have to understand the movements while keeping your dps up. And the golem doesn’t do that. Maybe if the golem could change into a raid boss to practice or a fractal boss, then i will be happy. But since the golem is actually just a little punching bag it doesn’t work.

 

And it’s completely different too. Since the boons are added the whole time, well in an actual fight, we are in cool downs for things like alacrity and banners. Not all times are banners placed in right direction. And we don’t ever have 2 hour long alacrity and might, etc. so it’s more of a false if everything was perfect on you.

[Malediktus.9250]

Anet should add dps meters, gear check and build templates into the game. Obviously with an option to opt out for gear check. But DPS should not be able to be hidden in instanced content.

[ToPNoP.2493]

> @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> Anet should add dps meters, gear check and build templates into the game. Obviously with an option to opt out for gear check. But DPS should not be able to be hidden in instanced content.

 

I think we should be able to opt out of anyone seeing our damage.

[AliamRationem.5172]

> @"ToPNoP.2493" said:

> > @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > Anet should add dps meters, gear check and build templates into the game. Obviously with an option to opt out for gear check. But DPS should not be able to be hidden in instanced content.

>

> I think we should be able to opt out of anyone seeing our damage.

 

I agree, in pRinciple. However, in group content the players will still drive its use. Practically speaking, tHis would have minimal impact. It would also require anet to develop their own software.

[ToPNoP.2493]

> @"AliamRationem.5172" said:

> > @"ToPNoP.2493" said:

> > > @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > > Anet should add dps meters, gear check and build templates into the game. Obviously with an option to opt out for gear check. But DPS should not be able to be hidden in instanced content.

> >

> > I think we should be able to opt out of anyone seeing our damage.

>

> I agree, in pRinciple. However, in group content the players will still drive its use. Practically speaking, tHis would have minimal impact. It would also require anet to develop their own software.

 

That did not happen with the other dps meter, anet did not like the program mechanics and simply ceased its use on GW2. Ezpz for them. Personally, I play the game as is. If I win, it is as is. If I go into a group, it is because I like the players there, they get me as is. I don't need to use programs in order to see who is better, I already know by playing with them. I don't need to tell them what to do, but i can make suggestions and hope they come around. I wont go into a guild with impossible standards, though in some cases I could set those standards. I have said it time and again, dps meters are ok'd by anet so it seems, so they are fine. But I wont be a part of the community that feels elite because they use them to bandwagon. I would rather be part of a group that helps rather than is counter productive to fun game play.

Btw, did you main Mesmer before or after the patch?

 

[TexZero.7910]

> @"CptAurellian.9537" said:

> Allowing Arc was an excellent decision. With regard to an ingame meter, no resources should be wasted on that. Third party is a perfectly fine thing and the probability that the devs would get such a meter right is close to zero. There's a reason why such stuff is always third party in games with a more reasonable stance on addons than GW2.

 

My understanding is that the Dev Clients used to test already have a dps meter function built in. Of course this is based solely on word of mouth and may not be accurate, but if there's any validity to that claim then its probably safe to say they don't need to allocate much resources to do port the feature from the dev tools to live.

[Malediktus.9250]

> @"ToPNoP.2493" said:

> > @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > Anet should add dps meters, gear check and build templates into the game. Obviously with an option to opt out for gear check. But DPS should not be able to be hidden in instanced content.

>

> I think we should be able to opt out of anyone seeing our damage.

 

You would just get instant kicked from all groups if you opt out of DPS meter (at least from those groups who use ArcDPS already). It is very suspicious if someone wants to hide his performance from the group/squad

[phandaria.4891]

I would prefer to see ANet resources to be used elsewhere. Based on GW2Efficiency, only 30% have defeated Vale Guardian and 18% for Sabetha, which are the entry point for raids. I imagine, the actual number including non-GW2Efficiency users is much lower. It is probably better for ANet to figure out how to bring the masses into raiding first.

And as other have said, it could potentially promote elitism and toxicity.

[ToPNoP.2493]

> @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > @"ToPNoP.2493" said:

> > > @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > > Anet should add dps meters, gear check and build templates into the game. Obviously with an option to opt out for gear check. But DPS should not be able to be hidden in instanced content.

> >

> > I think we should be able to opt out of anyone seeing our damage.

>

> You would just get instant kicked from all groups if you opt out of DPS meter (at least from those groups who use ArcDPS already). It is very suspicious if someone wants to hide his performance from the group/squad

 

So, what you are saying is. If a player does not submit to elitism, then he/she would be ridiculed and excluded?

[Malediktus.9250]

> @"ToPNoP.2493" said:

> > @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > > @"ToPNoP.2493" said:

> > > > @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > > > Anet should add dps meters, gear check and build templates into the game. Obviously with an option to opt out for gear check. But DPS should not be able to be hidden in instanced content.

> > >

> > > I think we should be able to opt out of anyone seeing our damage.

> >

> > You would just get instant kicked from all groups if you opt out of DPS meter (at least from those groups who use ArcDPS already). It is very suspicious if someone wants to hide his performance from the group/squad

>

> So, what you are saying is. If a player does not submit to elitism, then he/she would be ridiculed and excluded?

You can always make your own groups. Oh wait you just want to leech raid kills from people who put effort in. Just like the lfg commanders + his 1-3 friends are often terrible and most likely do not even meet their own requirements and put them very high to get carried

[nosleepdemon.1368]

I don't understand why group or raid wide DPS metres are such an issue. It's not like people don't already discriminate based on your profession/AP/build etc. Players have had and always will have the opportunity to create their own groups with lax/no rules regarding who can or can't join. Perhaps a feature can be added that enables/disables metres for a group which is set by the leader once when starting the group. The state of DPS metres could then be inspected by any prospective member of the group; If a player is bad/trying to get carried with nobody noticing, they can feel free not to join that group.

[ToPNoP.2493]

> @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > @"ToPNoP.2493" said:

> > > @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > > > @"ToPNoP.2493" said:

> > > > > @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > > > > Anet should add dps meters, gear check and build templates into the game. Obviously with an option to opt out for gear check. But DPS should not be able to be hidden in instanced content.

> > > >

> > > > I think we should be able to opt out of anyone seeing our damage.

> > >

> > > You would just get instant kicked from all groups if you opt out of DPS meter (at least from those groups who use ArcDPS already). It is very suspicious if someone wants to hide his performance from the group/squad

> >

> > So, what you are saying is. If a player does not submit to elitism, then he/she would be ridiculed and excluded?

> You can always make your own groups. Oh wait you just want to leech raid kills from people who put effort in. Just like the lfg commanders + his 1-3 friends are often terrible and most likely do not even meet their own requirements and put them very high to get carried

 

A similar thing when I first started playing halted my production of raid gear, and stopped any interest in fractals. I have not been in a fractal since I started, elitist attitudes is what started that. I bought all the resistance, and simply sold it back. Elitists are what are keeping me out of pvp right now, the toxicity from the op and bandwagon has ruined it for me this season. I left a prominent server because of elitists,. After, I was at their keep every day fighting all who would challenge, almost all were sent to spawn. I don't use programs to get gud, I am not so unintelligent as to not see for myself what is hurting my toon, and I fix it. To me, that is the fun in this game. Figuring out what I'm doing wrong, not using a program that teaches me what others are doing right. We should either, 1. give dps meters to every single account, or 2. stop dps meter use because it gives an unfair advantage to others.

 

Guild leaders should help to design a comp, not send their best program user into other teams to see what is where. It seems too spy and cheaty to me.

 

[nosleepdemon.1368]

> @"ToPNoP.2493" said:

> > @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > > @"ToPNoP.2493" said:

> > > > @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > > > > @"ToPNoP.2493" said:

> > > > > > @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > > > > > Anet should add dps meters, gear check and build templates into the game. Obviously with an option to opt out for gear check. But DPS should not be able to be hidden in instanced content.

> > > > >

> > > > > I think we should be able to opt out of anyone seeing our damage.

> > > >

> > > > You would just get instant kicked from all groups if you opt out of DPS meter (at least from those groups who use ArcDPS already). It is very suspicious if someone wants to hide his performance from the group/squad

> > >

> > > So, what you are saying is. If a player does not submit to elitism, then he/she would be ridiculed and excluded?

> > You can always make your own groups. Oh wait you just want to leech raid kills from people who put effort in. Just like the lfg commanders + his 1-3 friends are often terrible and most likely do not even meet their own requirements and put them very high to get carried

>

> A similar thing when I first started playing halted my production of raid gear, and stopped any interest in fractals. I have not been in a fractal since I started, elitist attitudes is what started that. I bought all the resistance, and simply sold it back. Elitists are what are keeping me out of pvp right now, the toxicity from the op and bandwagon has ruined it for me this season. I left a prominent server because of elitists,. After, I was at their keep every day fighting all who would challenge, almost all were sent to spawn. I don't use programs to get gud, I am not so unintelligent as to not see for myself what is hurting my toon, and I fix it. To me, that is the fun in this game. Figuring out what I'm doing wrong, not using a program that teaches me what others are doing right. We should either, 1. give dps meters to every single account, or 2. stop dps meter use because it gives an unfair advantage to others.

>

> Guild leaders should help to design a comp, not send their best program user into other teams to see what is where. It seems too spy and cheaty to me.

>

 

Forgive me but this seems to be at the very least, exaggerated. I've been doing fractals since they came out, and dungeon gold farms since before then. In that time, I have been kicked from a group precisely one time for not meeting AP requirements listed in the group name. Whoops, my bad. I have however also received two guild and countless friend invites. I've seen people rage quit rarely, but the party has never bullied them and usually once a new player joins we breeze through whatever boss we got stuck at.

 

I feel like many of the people who claim elitism this and e-peen that and mah toxicicity!!1 are the harbingers of their own misery.

[AliamRationem.5172]

> @"ToPNoP.2493" said:

> > @"AliamRationem.5172" said:

> > > @"ToPNoP.2493" said:

> > > > @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > > > Anet should add dps meters, gear check and build templates into the game. Obviously with an option to opt out for gear check. But DPS should not be able to be hidden in instanced content.

> > >

> > > I think we should be able to opt out of anyone seeing our damage.

> >

> > I agree, in pRinciple. However, in group content the players will still drive its use. Practically speaking, tHis would have minimal impact. It would also require anet to develop their own software.

>

> That did not happen with the other dps meter, anet did not like the program mechanics and simply ceased its use on GW2. Ezpz for them. Personally, I play the game as is. If I win, it is as is. If I go into a group, it is because I like the players there, they get me as is. I don't need to use programs in order to see who is better, I already know by playing with them. I don't need to tell them what to do, but i can make suggestions and hope they come around. I wont go into a guild with impossible standards, though in some cases I could set those standards. I have said it time and again, dps meters are ok'd by anet so it seems, so they are fine. But I wont be a part of the community that feels elite because they use them to bandwagon. I would rather be part of a group that helps rather than is counter productive to fun game play.

> Btw, did you main Mesmer before or after the patch?

>

 

The other program was found to be in violation of ToS, as I recall. Arcdps is not. Of course, ANet could change that if they wanted to, but I believe as the game ages they are making a concerted effort to get some less casual players involved. Such players expect to have tools such as DPS meters (at a minimum!).

 

I don't have much to say on your judgments of players who use DPS meters and their motivations for using them. Suffice it to say, I speak only for myself and I don't fit any of your talking points. I don't raid. I rarely run fractals or dungeons. I'm a mostly solo player and, as you can see from the linked thread in the mesmer forum, I do exactly as I said I do with Arcdps: I use it to improve personal performance.

 

Soloing bosses and tweaking my build are some of the things I personally enjoy and find Arcdps useful for. But the guilds I am a member of are all casual guilds, including one where the leadership and many of the members are older players with disabilities. Many of them can't play at the level I play at, but contrary to the caricature of Arcdps users you've painted, when I'm not recording boss solos I can usually be found helping my guild or just new/returning players I happen to come across. Running HP trains through HoT, tagging up to take down PoF bounties to help other players get their griffon or finish their specialization collection, even joining other players who are struggling with their storyline to help them get through it. These are a few of my favorite things.

 

In any event, my point is the same as so many others in this thread: Arcdps is just a tool. Toxicity is a product of the players using that tool.

 

In answer to your question, the extent of my mesmer experience prior to PoF was unlocking the HoT elite spec. I didn't find core mesmer or chronomancer appealing, so I never played it after unlocking the spec. However, shortly after PoF released I tried Mirage and it was exactly what I was looking for.

[AliamRationem.5172]

> @"ToPNoP.2493" said:

> > @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > > @"ToPNoP.2493" said:

> > > > @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > > > Anet should add dps meters, gear check and build templates into the game. Obviously with an option to opt out for gear check. But DPS should not be able to be hidden in instanced content.

> > >

> > > I think we should be able to opt out of anyone seeing our damage.

> >

> > You would just get instant kicked from all groups if you opt out of DPS meter (at least from those groups who use ArcDPS already). It is very suspicious if someone wants to hide his performance from the group/squad

>

> So, what you are saying is. If a player does not submit to elitism, then he/she would be ridiculed and excluded?

 

Hey, look. You can call it elitism if you want. Just like they can call you a leech for not pulling your weight. Neither is productive, and only tells a fraction of the truth!

 

The fact is, both sides have a perfectly valid point. If content is difficult enough that a minimum standard is required, then expecting players to meet that standard for the good of all involved is not "elitism". It's common sense. Nobody wants to waste hours wiping because they're trying to complete high end content with players who simply aren't up to the challenge.

 

As long as the group (or group leader) is able to communicate the issue politely, you should be able to do the adult thing, swallow your pride, and see your way out of the group. Unfortunately, as we all know, many players are neither able to communicate such issues politely nor are other players able to swallow their pride and get over themselves when they are the source of the problem.

 

Moral of the story: Always be polite and, if you aren't up to the task, bow out graciously before the situation turns toxic. 4 or 9 other players don't owe you a carry, no matter how much you want to complete that content. And players who aren't very skilled don't deserve your ridicule.

 

Simple enough, no?