The WVW Condition Plague And The Cure

[EMTDJ.9042]

Hello All WVW players and Arena Net Developers,

 

I am writing today to share what many may have already shared, but to show a different approach that I believe has not been taken.

 

As many, if not all, have realized by now there is an issue with the amount of conditions that can be burst at one time by particular classes, looking at scourges and spellbreakers here, while stripping massive amounts of boons leaving players with no way to respond or react to the amount of melting that is going on around them.

 

Rather than proposing a massive nerf, which many probably have proposed, I am proposing a Buff to other classes condition cleanse. Such as for example instead of having most cleansing happening at 1 condition per interval, up it to 2 or 3, to combat this surge in condition stacking.

 

Also, a great idea would be to change the water trait line on elementalist back to what it was, where you could do both grant an aura to allies every time you get one and cure a condition every time you grant regeneration to an ally or yourself. This way Tempest has a greater support role in wvw and would probably see more use in the wvw format.

 

Between having groups with 5 or 6 scourges, or more, with all the boon corruption and transfer, as well as spellbreaker with the same boon corruption, and power variants of these classes that both stack conditions and hit for massive amounts of power damge, it would greatly benefit the player base to have the ability to combat the surge of scourges coming at them head on and melting them left and right. I've heard of hitting like a tank, but with how the balance is currently set, scourges are melting people like wild fire to trees, what we need is the ability to put some water on this fire with Tempest and condition cleanse increase. This way groups aren't being completely wipped out and actually have a fighting chance against this insane condition stacking condition that is plaguing WVW players at the moment.

 

I love Guild Wars 2 and support it greatly in many ways. I love what the developers are doing and look forward to the future and seeing what they bring, but for right now I feel this is a change that needs to happen.

 

Thank you for your time everyone!

 

From,

Eternal

[Strider Pj.2193]

Not sure that would fix the scourge issue, as the boons would be stripped and corrupted into more condis.

 

Adding more booms likely isn't the answer. But increasing the healing potential of blasts and cleansing potential of some of the skills would be helpful.

 

 

[Strider Pj.2193]

Like with : https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Geyser

Make it cure two conditions when cast

 

Or:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Healing_Rain

Make it cure 2 conditions every 2 seconds.

 

Without the blasts or traiting... and on up to 5 targets in the field

 

Not that these are the answers, but maybe some help.

[EMTDJ.9042]

> @"Strider Pj.2193" said:

> Not sure that would fix the scourge issue, as the boons would be stripped and corrupted into more condis.

>

> Adding more booms likely isn't the answer. But increasing the healing potential of blasts and cleansing potential of some of the skills would be helpful.

>

>

 

If they changed cleanse around and increase it then it would definitely help. Also auras don't count as boons. So if you change the water trait line, it would allow Tempest as whole to do more condition removal for groups. Therefore allowing for it to be used more in group comp. Just because a new class like weaver gets added, doesn't mean they should reduce Tempest to non usable in group comp, just change it to more support and make it viable in such use. Therefore it gives more options.

[Aetatis.5418]

engineer was a start - although the core profession doesnt profit from that change too much.

 

however, creating a balanced state is hard.

take your example: add cleanse on regeneration on a tempest with aura share and you create a beast, that is impervious to conditions (stacking earth, water and tempest traitlines + runes and weapon skills). so bloated that smallscale/spvp gets another cleanse monster and the meta shifts in favour for one professions e-spec

 

not saying your idea is bad - contrary even, the idea is good - just some more careful thoughts.

like increasing cleanses on cooldowns, such as cleanses on heal from 1 to 2 or 2 to 3, sounds much more reasonable.

preferably on underrepresented professions/specs.

 

alternatively dont stack too many jobs on one profession like firebrands. its good that a melee party effectively needs only one firebrand now. compared to HoT, when each melee group had to run dual guard in order to have enough power to push through cc. but at the same time firebrands replaced melee tempests and melee revenants -> meh!

 

but its getting old, isnt it? each meta there is something that could have been better.

[EMTDJ.9042]

> @"Aetatis.5418" said:

> engineer was a start - although the core profession doesnt profit from that change too much.

>

> however, creating a balanced state is hard.

> take your example: add cleanse on regeneration on a tempest with aura share and you create a beast, that is impervious to conditions (stacking earth, water and tempest traitlines + runes and weapon skills). so bloated that smallscale/spvp gets another cleanse monster and the meta shifts in favour for one professions e-spec

>

> not saying your idea is bad - contrary even, the idea is good - just some more careful thoughts.

> like increasing cleanses on cooldowns, such as cleanses on heal from 1 to 2 or 2 to 3, sounds much more reasonable.

> preferably on underrepresented professions/specs.

>

 

They could make it a wvw only trait line for water. Just like they have pve only armor stat sets and runes.

 

 

[EMTDJ.9042]

> @"Aetatis.5418" said:

>

> alternatively dont stack too many jobs on one profession like firebrands. its good that a melee party effectively needs only one firebrand now. compared to HoT, when each melee group had to run dual guard in order to have enough power to push through cc. but at the same time firebrands replaced melee tempests and melee revenants -> meh!

>

> but its getting old, isnt it? each meta there is something that could have been better.

 

As far as FB, with the current meta being scourge and spellbreaker boon corruption and condition stacking, every group needs 2 FB one for justice and one for courage. Even then all conditions can't be cleansed and all the stability, regeneration, resistance, and such gets corrupted. Therefore, having other classes to be able to help with cleanse would benefit the player base greatly and help protect us all from the surge of the scourge.

[EMTDJ.9042]

Maybe I shouldn't be making catchy one liners such as the surge of the scourge... someone might pick it up and use it against me... just like all my boons in wvw every time we try to stack or run through another group.. lol

[Voltekka.2375]

> @"EMTDJ.9042" said:

> > @"Aetatis.5418" said:

> > engineer was a start - although the core profession doesnt profit from that change too much.

> >

> > however, creating a balanced state is hard.

> > take your example: add cleanse on regeneration on a tempest with aura share and you create a beast, that is impervious to conditions (stacking earth, water and tempest traitlines + runes and weapon skills). so bloated that smallscale/spvp gets another cleanse monster and the meta shifts in favour for one professions e-spec

> >

> > not saying your idea is bad - contrary even, the idea is good - just some more careful thoughts.

> > like increasing cleanses on cooldowns, such as cleanses on heal from 1 to 2 or 2 to 3, sounds much more reasonable.

> > preferably on underrepresented professions/specs.

> >

>

> They could make it a wvw only trait line for water. Just like they have pve only armor stat sets and runes.

>

>

 

Out of curiosity, which runes and armor stats are pve only, non existent in wvw?

[Voltekka.2375]

Boonspamming made scourges and spellbreakers what they are. Scourge is by no means balanced, dont get me wrong. I main necro, scourge is boring and overpowered. But so is the permaboonspamming of FB, chronos etc. Boonspam play should also not be in that overpowered state.

[Strider Pj.2193]

> @"Voltekka.2375" said:

> Boonspamming made scourges and spellbreakers what they are. Scourge is by no means balanced, dont get me wrong. I main necro, scourge is boring and overpowered. But so is the permaboonspamming of FB, chronos etc. Boonspam play should also not be in that overpowered state.

 

The question would be: if there was no boon spam, would scourge be overpowered?

[EMTDJ.9042]

> @"Voltekka.2375" said:

> > @"EMTDJ.9042" said:

> > > @"Aetatis.5418" said:

> > > engineer was a start - although the core profession doesnt profit from that change too much.

> > >

> > > however, creating a balanced state is hard.

> > > take your example: add cleanse on regeneration on a tempest with aura share and you create a beast, that is impervious to conditions (stacking earth, water and tempest traitlines + runes and weapon skills). so bloated that smallscale/spvp gets another cleanse monster and the meta shifts in favour for one professions e-spec

> > >

> > > not saying your idea is bad - contrary even, the idea is good - just some more careful thoughts.

> > > like increasing cleanses on cooldowns, such as cleanses on heal from 1 to 2 or 2 to 3, sounds much more reasonable.

> > > preferably on underrepresented professions/specs.

> > >

> >

> > They could make it a wvw only trait line for water. Just like they have pve only armor stat sets and runes.

> >

> >

>

> Out of curiosity, which runes and armor stats are pve only, non existent in wvw?

 

I meant pvp

[EMTDJ.9042]

> @"Voltekka.2375" said:

> Boonspamming made scourges and spellbreakers what they are. Scourge is by no means balanced, dont get me wrong. I main necro, scourge is boring and overpowered. But so is the permaboonspamming of FB, chronos etc. Boonspam play should also not be in that overpowered state.

 

Even without spam, you can't get any boons now, now there is massive overload of condition spam. How is that any better?

[aspirine.6852]

It's so bad now that I feel cheap levelling my necro to become a scourge. :/

[EMTDJ.9042]

> @"aspirine.6852" said:

> It's so bad now that I feel cheap levelling my necro to become a scourge. :/

 

It is pretty crazy

[Orpheal.8263]

reduce the total amount of boons and conditions down to 8 on both sides and rebalance all skilsl and traits of all classes based on this change alone. Done - problem solved

 

less effect spam on all sides, much easier to balance the rest of this games cobmat system with now much lesser condition and boon spam everywhere.

Boon removal and Condition removal will be better balanced then again and able to keep up bette again with the effects getting reapplied, without that usign these skilsl feels to you as a player like wasting your time...

[Kaiser.9873]

In all honesty, if you take Resistance off the conversion table completely, then the problem is solved.

[DeadlySynz.3471]

5-6 melee do far more damage than 5-6 scourges. Scourges or conditions aren't the problem, the players are. Players are simply unwilling to hop on classes that are easily capable of dealing with condition classes.

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"DeadlySynz.3471" said:

> 5-6 melee do far more damage than 5-6 scourges. Scourges or conditions aren't the problem, the players are. Players are simply unwilling to hop on classes that are easily capable of dealing with condition classes.

Yeah because 5-6 boonsquirting melee get feared and crippled as they approach the scourges so others can hit them with impunity, once they reach them then they melt when the scourges drop everything at their feet while getting ~10k hp barriers.

 

But sure. Melee does more damage.

 

The classes that can easily deal with condition classes are actually ranged and *commanders* are most definetly unwilling to have them.

[Kaiser.9873]

Scourges are only problems in large numbers. A warrior can facetank a Scourge 1v1 easily.

[Rezzet.3614]

blame whoever designed scourge and spellbreaker , balance got thrown out of a window and into a shredder then out of a window again when these two got implemented

[Lord of the Fire.6870]

> @"Kaiser.9873" said:

> Scourges are only problems in large numbers. A warrior can facetank a Scourge 1v1 easily.

 

This is the problem in general up to a fight of 20-30 vs 20-30 all is good but when more like 50 vs 50 one side is destroyed in seconds because of conditions and aoe's which are stacking . In those encounters your personal skill helps you rarely and those side who has more aoe's and conditions win. This is neither rewarding nor fun.

 

I would properly as developers try to solve it with some kind of resistance buff which reacts to the amount of players in the battle and the class you are playing dynamically

[XenesisII.1540]

I personally I really hate conditions, like really hate them, like really, really hate them, I don't think you understand like reeeeeally, really hate them hate them type of hate.

 

But I think after the numerous changes, conditions are in an ok place now, you don't instantly die and have a chance to react to it, they still put pressure on you and those builds are still viable. Certain things need to be fixed such as the resistance to immobilization boon corruption, which was an absolute terrible change.

 

Rather than adding anything else to the game I prefer if things were toned down because all adding does is continues the cycle of garbage of adding new boons to the game, adding new conditions to the game, adding boon sharing, adding corruptions to now deal with boon sharing, adding light fields to help clear conditions because are too numerous, adding more aoes corruptions, adding more cleanses because too many conditions again.... please lets just stop adding to this cycle and tone down stuff to play with each other better.

[Applesauce.5271]

maybe if all condition clear skills/traits had 2 seconds of non stacking resistance it'd be a bit easier

[anduriell.6280]

Um buffing ele is not the answer for the condi plague. Ele already has an spot in squads (well mostly) and this change would make them too strong in small groups.

 

The answer for the condi plague is simple: **when you cleanse a condition you get a buff which make impossible to reapply that conditions for few seconds.**

 

That way you cleanse and the cleanses are impactful. The amount of second could be fixed (like 2 or 3 seconds in each condition) or could be stack dependent (like 0,5 seconds by stack)

 

This change does not impact small scale because it doesn’t change how classes behave, but it is a huge help against condition heavy builds.

 

This also would fix the extremely unfun situations where you are CC’ed to oblivion for 5 seconds because it is as simple as spam those and using stunbreaks does nothing because you are CCed again is as soon as you use the skills.