Ohoni.6057 Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 > @"Teamkiller.4315" said: >Player skill issues. Sounds like a you problem, not an A-net or community problem. Customer feedback issue, which makes it as much ANet's problem as my own. >I'm not even opposed to "easy mode" raids necessarily. Look at my posts in the 20 man raid thread. I gave some meaningful ideas for how to implement an easier mode (split into multiple squads, mistakes one squad makes only affects that one squad..) Ok. > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > I can say that I've never taken *pride* in my own *envy,* > > "Can you say you've never eaten rice or bread?" > "I can say I've never eaten rice inside bread." My point, in case you missed it, is that I don't use my human failings as an excuse to not *do better.* Just because I've had negative impulses does not mean that I believe negative impulses should be *rewarded.* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamkiller.4315 Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > Customer feedback issue, which makes it as much ANet's problem as my own. Ah yes, the old "i'm not good enough so make it easier" customer feedback issue. > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > My point, in case you missed it I did miss it, and I'm quite sure it was more than just me who missed it. You do realize neither pride nor envy are necessarily negative emotions, correct? There are positive versions of both, and they're not trivial at all. Not only that, but where is this made up strawman where I said people should be rewarded for [negative] pride o [negative] envy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linken.6345 Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > @"Teamkiller.4315" said: > >Player skill issues. Sounds like a you problem, not an A-net or community problem. > > Customer feedback issue, which makes it as much ANet's problem as my own. > > >I'm not even opposed to "easy mode" raids necessarily. Look at my posts in the 20 man raid thread. I gave some meaningful ideas for how to implement an easier mode (split into multiple squads, mistakes one squad makes only affects that one squad..) > > Ok. > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > I can say that I've never taken *pride* in my own *envy,* > > > > "Can you say you've never eaten rice or bread?" > > "I can say I've never eaten rice inside bread." > > My point, in case you missed it, is that I don't use my human failings as an excuse to not *do better.* Just because I've had negative impulses does not mean that I believe negative impulses should be *rewarded.* I dont want to improve is a negative impulse aswell aint it? So why should that be rewarded mate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sokeenoppa.5384 Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 Legendary armor is not for any1. Should it Be? No. If you really want it, you work for it, its not like its impossible to get. I would also enjoy Raid content with 10 dps profs with somekind of selfmade builds, but thats not how this game works^^ We have many pages of discussion here... Why? Only real discussion here is that you (you know who i mean) are not skilled enough for raiding, and thats not a reason to make things any easier. Yes we have hobbies for fun right? Well sometimes even ur fav sport/or game can be a pain in the ***. I train martial arts and i like it very much, but its not so fun anymore when i got beated.. when that happends, im not going to internet to cry about it, ill train more to get better. Same thing for games, if its too hard, ill train. Most ppl find getting better FUN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohoni.6057 Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 > @"Teamkiller.4315" said: > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > Customer feedback issue, which makes it as much ANet's problem as my own. > > Ah yes, the old "i'm not good enough so make it easier" customer feedback issue. Sure, if that's what you want to call it. It's no less valid than the "I'm too skilled, I need you to make harder content, and give me better prizes for playing it" feedback. > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > My point, in case you missed it > > I did miss it, and I'm quite sure it was more than just me who missed it. Again, stop underestimating people. >You do realize neither pride nor envy are necessarily negative emotions, correct? There are positive versions of both, and they're not trivial at all. Not only that, but where is this made up strawman where I said people should be rewarded for [negative] pride o [negative] envy? You were using those reactions as an excuse to not expand raids to others. And no, 7 *sins,* not 7 "things that could go either way, probably." > @"Linken.6345" said: > I dont want to improve is a negative impulse aswell aint it? No, not at all. We're talking about a game here, there's no reason anyone should want to improve if that's not how they feel about it. > @"sokeenoppa.5384" said: >I train martial arts and i like it very much, but its not so fun anymore when i got beated.. when that happends, im not going to internet to cry about it, ill train more to get better. Same thing for games, if its too hard, ill train. Most ppl find getting better FUN. And that's fine, people who feel that way can do so. Not everyone feels that way, and there's nothing wrong with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > @"Teamkiller.4315" said: > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > Customer feedback issue, which makes it as much ANet's problem as my own. > > > > Ah yes, the old "i'm not good enough so make it easier" customer feedback issue. > > Sure, if that's what you want to call it. It's no less valid than the "I'm too skilled, I need you to make harder content, and give me better prizes for playing it" feedback. It is less valid. Easier content exists - in plenty - harder content didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillC.4521 Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said: > > And if Raids aren't the epitome of PvE play, please do enlighten me to what is? > > >you know this statement can be used right back at you right. each people have their own mode right now, some people dont like the meta or the story but like raids, some dont like raids but prefer to do the meta and story, some prefer pvp/wvw, so i dont know whats the reason for asking easy mode raid here, if everyone happy right now :) > > But everyone isn't happy right now, because people who want to do easy mode raids do not currently have an option to do so. They want easy mode raids like t3 fotm where they get less rewards than t4 so they only want access to lore and more content etc or they want the envoy armor? Well anet can add easy mode raid if they want, as a training mode, but easy access to legend armor skin? Probably not. Just do easy mode like t3 fotm and move to t4 which is normal mode raid to get your armor That way tho in the long run easy mode will die, or if the rewards difference is too small then normal mode will die. So its like anet wasting their time and resource right now for another dead content. Even right now we barely get any content to play. > > >like pineapple pizza with less pineapple in it that you can barely see the pineapple, of course people will complain :) > > Only if they are forced to eat that pizza, which would not be the case here. If easy mode is not for you, nobody would ever force you into it. Maybe people who like a lot of pineapple on their pizza would not enjoy a pizza with only a little pineapple. That's fine, they can keep eating their pizza that has a lot of pineapple. But for those that would enjoy a little pineapple, it would be available for them to eat too. > And again you'll never know what will happen, if the rewards/time ratios is better on easy mode slowly everyone probably will move there which means they forced to do it since no one want to do normal mode right? Just like 100 and 100CM, both can be finished around the same time. CM have better reward tho, rarely see normal 100 run on lfg now. And our situation right now, no one forcing you guys to do the raid, pvp automated tournament etc. I want those gizmo from automated tournament 1st place but i dont want to make a group and improve my pvp skill and pvp is toxic and full of cheater and afkers. So should i act like a spoiled child and asking anet to drop those gizmo to my open hands? > >many people here already give the solution tho, i even see someone post about easy mode as training ground but no progress towards legend armor, but here you go still talking about legend armor specific skin on easy mode even other game mode dont have skin like envoy armor because their mode is easier to farm, if anet gonna release skins like envoy armor they probably gonna lock it behind something > > Let me be clear "then they wouldn't get the skin" is not a solution. > > So what would your *actual* solution be? Sadly, I dont have the solution for your problem, if i have to pick the solution from post in this thread then i agree with the easy mode as training mode of raid so people can train to be better on raid so they can get their armor in the normal mode. Pretty sure its already posted here before, but you probably didnt read it since its different from what you want. No matter what solution that people give in this thread wont satisfy you, since what you want is standing there with your open hands and waiting for the envoy armor drop from the sky. And your solution wont satisfy other people too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohoni.6057 Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > @"Teamkiller.4315" said: > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > Customer feedback issue, which makes it as much ANet's problem as my own. > > > > > > Ah yes, the old "i'm not good enough so make it easier" customer feedback issue. > > > > Sure, if that's what you want to call it. It's no less valid than the "I'm too skilled, I need you to make harder content, and give me better prizes for playing it" feedback. > > It is less valid. Easier content exists - in plenty - harder content didn't. Again, *it's not about quantity.* > @"BillC.4521" said: >They want easy mode raids like t3 fotm where they get less rewards than t4 so they only want access to lore and more content etc or they want the envoy armor? Depends from person to person. I want both. >Well anet can add easy mode raid if they want, as a training mode, but easy access to legend armor skin? Probably not. Why not? Not everyone wants to do the normal mode raiding, it has all sorts of hassles involved that just aren't everyone's cup of tea. There's no reason why everyone should *have* to do it just for the armor. >That way tho in the long run easy mode will die, or if the rewards difference is too small then normal mode will die. So its like anet wasting their time and resource right now for another dead content. Even right now we barely get any content to play. Agreed, which is why they should include a path to Envoy armor in the easy mode for those who don't want to move up to the normal raids. >And again you'll never know what will happen, if the rewards/time ratios is better on easy mode slowly everyone probably will move there which means they forced to do it since no one want to do normal mode right? Agreed, which is why the rewards/time ratio will *never* be better on easy mode, and even crazy people like me don't want that. > Just like 100 and 100CM, both can be finished around the same time. CM have better reward tho, rarely see normal 100 run on lfg now. That's because they are already fairly close together. The audience for one is the same as the other. Don't think of this as 100 vs 100cm, think of this as like 10 vs. 100cm. There will be plenty of people who want to do the former and have NO interest in the latter. >And our situation right now, no one forcing you guys to do the raid, pvp automated tournament etc. I want those gizmo from automated tournament 1st place but i dont want to make a group and improve my pvp skill and pvp is toxic and full of cheater and afkers. So should i act like a spoiled child and asking anet to drop those gizmo to my open hands? I feel like that's maybe a loaded question? I will say that if you don't want to do the content, but you do like the rewards currently assigned to that content, then you should **definitely** ask ANet for alternate methods of earning that content that you would enjoy more, like like how PvPers can earn dungeon loot without having to farm dungeons for it. >Sadly, I dont have the solution for your problem, if i have to pick the solution from post in this thread then i agree with the easy mode as training mode of raid so people can train to be better on raid so they can get their armor in the normal mode. Again, that's no solution, they'd still end up in normal mode, which is *not where everyone wants to end up.* What is your solution for them getting the armor *without* ever ending up in normal mode raids? >No matter what solution that people give in this thread wont satisfy you, Well of course, only ANet can deliver any *actual* solutions, this thread is about discussing how those might be implemented. >And your solution wont satisfy other people too. Of course it would, there are plenty of people who would enjoy having Envoy armor that currently don't have a viable path towards it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillC.4521 Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > @"Teamkiller.4315" said: > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > Customer feedback issue, which makes it as much ANet's problem as my own. > > > > > > > > Ah yes, the old "i'm not good enough so make it easier" customer feedback issue. > > > > > > Sure, if that's what you want to call it. It's no less valid than the "I'm too skilled, I need you to make harder content, and give me better prizes for playing it" feedback. > > > > It is less valid. Easier content exists - in plenty - harder content didn't. > > Again, *it's not about quantity.* > > > @"BillC.4521" said: > >They want easy mode raids like t3 fotm where they get less rewards than t4 so they only want access to lore and more content etc or they want the envoy armor? > > Depends from person to person. I want both. > > >Well anet can add easy mode raid if they want, as a training mode, but easy access to legend armor skin? Probably not. > > Why not? Not everyone wants to do the normal mode raiding, it has all sorts of hassles involved that just aren't everyone's cup of tea. There's no reason why everyone should *have* to do it just for the armor. > > >That way tho in the long run easy mode will die, or if the rewards difference is too small then normal mode will die. So its like anet wasting their time and resource right now for another dead content. Even right now we barely get any content to play. > > Agreed, which is why they should include a path to Envoy armor in the easy mode for those who don't want to move up to the normal raids. > > >And again you'll never know what will happen, if the rewards/time ratios is better on easy mode slowly everyone probably will move there which means they forced to do it since no one want to do normal mode right? > > Agreed, which is why the rewards/time ratio will *never* be better on easy mode, and even crazy people like me don't want that. Now tell me how much the difference on easy mode and normal mode rewards should be, so normal people wont ever consider farming on easy mode, since i see you know what people think, for 2nd legend armor people only need to farm LI, how many the difference should be? 3times 4 times longer? 5 times? You just creating another problem here, stop wasting anet time. > > > Just like 100 and 100CM, both can be finished around the same time. CM have better reward tho, rarely see normal 100 run on lfg now. > > That's because they are already fairly close together. The audience for one is the same as the other. Don't think of this as 100 vs 100cm, think of this as like 10 vs. 100cm. There will be plenty of people who want to do the former and have NO interest in the latter. > So you want easy raid as easy as scale 10 fotm? LoL > >And our situation right now, no one forcing you guys to do the raid, pvp automated tournament etc. I want those gizmo from automated tournament 1st place but i dont want to make a group and improve my pvp skill and pvp is toxic and full of cheater and afkers. So should i act like a spoiled child and asking anet to drop those gizmo to my open hands? > > I feel like that's maybe a loaded question? I will say that if you don't want to do the content, but you do like the rewards currently assigned to that content, then you should **definitely** ask ANet for alternate methods of earning that content that you would enjoy more, like like how PvPers can earn dungeon loot without having to farm dungeons for it. > And many people will complain, why? Its the rewards for competitive scene, just like how envoy armor is for challenging content on pve. > >Sadly, I dont have the solution for your problem, if i have to pick the solution from post in this thread then i agree with the easy mode as training mode of raid so people can train to be better on raid so they can get their armor in the normal mode. > > Again, that's no solution, they'd still end up in normal mode, which is *not where everyone wants to end up.* > > What is your solution for them getting the armor *without* ever ending up in normal mode raids? > > >No matter what solution that people give in this thread wont satisfy you, > > Well of course, only ANet can deliver any *actual* solutions, this thread is about discussing how those might be implemented. > > >And your solution wont satisfy other people too. > > Of course it would, there are plenty of people who would enjoy having Envoy armor that currently don't have a viable path towards it. LoL, there are plenty of people who hate your solution too in this thread. Why not together find solution where everyone happy then rather than forcing your solution on everyone and act as if everyone will be happy :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohoni.6057 Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 > @"BillC.4521" said: > Now tell me how much the difference on easy mode and normal mode rewards should be, so normal people wont ever consider farming on easy mode, since i see you know what people think, for 2nd legend armor people only need to farm LI, how many the difference should be? 3times 4 times longer? 5 times? >You just creating another problem here, stop wasting anet time. I'm thinking around 1/3 Li per boss kill. Maybe 1/4. Again, nobody could say whether an individual player might find it *worth* playing easy mode, the challenge was whether "the rewards/time ratios is better" in easy mode, and no, it would not be. Easy mode would be designed to take equal or more time to clear than normal mode, for several times less reward, particularly in terms of the more unique rewards. It would **never** be the most efficient path for any player who has normal mode "on farm." As to whether they value convenience over efficiency, that's their own business, and you have no right to be upset over their choices. >So you want easy raid as easy as scale 10 fotm? LoL Yes, I've been fairly clear about that. There's no point in making an easy mode if it's basically the same difficult as the normal mode and only people already inclined to do the normal mode would care to participate. >And many people will complain, why? Its the rewards for competitive scene, just like how envoy armor is for challenging content on pve. And like with raids, they would have no right to complain. They have no entitlement to the rewards they've been offered, and they certainly have no entitlement to keep other players from having those rewards unless *they* agree to let them go. It is better for even one player to get an item that *he* wants, than to make a thousand players happy that he *doesn't* have it. Players that can only be happy at the misfortune of others do not deserve to be rewarded. >LoL, there are plenty of people who hate your solution too in this thread. Why not together find solution where everyone happy then rather than forcing your solution on everyone and act as if everyone will be happy :) I'm all ears. I would love to find a solution that everyone can agree with, and will discuss any solution offered, but too often the proposed "solution" is just "shut up and be happy with the current state of things," or "how about this thing that does nothing you want it to, but that I would be fine with?" Again, if players can only be happy with what other players do *not* get, then making them happy doesn't really matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReaverKane.7598 Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 You know a debate ran it's course when you start going into metaphysics. After the sins part i think the discussion is pretty much dead. I mean at least two of the defenders of easy mode, already admitted that it's already pretty easy to obtain the envoy armor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nia.4725 Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > @"BillC.4521" said: > > Now tell me how much the difference on easy mode and normal mode rewards should be, so normal people wont ever consider farming on easy mode, since i see you know what people think, for 2nd legend armor people only need to farm LI, how many the difference should be? 3times 4 times longer? 5 times? > >You just creating another problem here, stop wasting anet time. > > I'm thinking around 1/3 Li per boss kill. Maybe 1/4. Again, nobody could say whether an individual player might find it *worth* playing easy mode, the challenge was whether "the rewards/time ratios is better" in easy mode, and no, it would not be. Easy mode would be designed to take equal or more time to clear than normal mode, for several times less reward, particularly in terms of the more unique rewards. It would **never** be the most efficient path for any player who has normal mode "on farm." As to whether they value convenience over efficiency, that's their own business, and you have no right to be upset over their choices. > > >So you want easy raid as easy as scale 10 fotm? LoL > > Yes, I've been fairly clear about that. There's no point in making an easy mode if it's basically the same difficult as the normal mode and only people already inclined to do the normal mode would care to participate. > > >And many people will complain, why? Its the rewards for competitive scene, just like how envoy armor is for challenging content on pve. > > And like with raids, they would have no right to complain. They have no entitlement to the rewards they've been offered, and they certainly have no entitlement to keep other players from having those rewards unless *they* agree to let them go. It is better for even one player to get an item that *he* wants, than to make a thousand players happy that he *doesn't* have it. Players that can only be happy at the misfortune of others do not deserve to be rewarded. > > >LoL, there are plenty of people who hate your solution too in this thread. Why not together find solution where everyone happy then rather than forcing your solution on everyone and act as if everyone will be happy :) > > I'm all ears. I would love to find a solution that everyone can agree with, and will discuss any solution offered, but too often the proposed "solution" is just "shut up and be happy with the current state of things," or "how about this thing that does nothing you want it to, but that I would be fine with?" Again, if players can only be happy with what other players do *not* get, then making them happy doesn't really matter. Yet you feel entitled to obtain any reward and skin you like, even if you don't play the content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > @"Teamkiller.4315" said: > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > Customer feedback issue, which makes it as much ANet's problem as my own. > > > > > > > > Ah yes, the old "i'm not good enough so make it easier" customer feedback issue. > > > > > > Sure, if that's what you want to call it. It's no less valid than the "I'm too skilled, I need you to make harder content, and give me better prizes for playing it" feedback. > > > > It is less valid. Easier content exists - in plenty - harder content didn't. > > Again, *it's not about quantity.* I could agree if you phrased that "it's not *only* about quantity". But like this? Nope. You're just disregarding yet another argument on the basis it doesn't help your case. You have a habit of doing it, but you have to realize nobody will take you seriously while you're using such a cheap tactic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohoni.6057 Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 > @"nia.4725" said: > Yet you feel entitled to obtain any reward and skin you like, even if you don't play the content. No, not entitled, it's just something that would make me happier, and I think a lot of other people happier, to have a viable method of earning this armor. I don't think I've any more entitled to it than you or anyone else, I just think that it works best if as many players can work toward it as possible. > @"Feanor.2358" said: > I could agree if you phrased that "it's not *only* about quantity". But like this? Nope. You're just disregarding yet another argument on the basis it doesn't help your case. You have a habit of doing it, but you have to realize nobody will take you seriously while you're using such a cheap tactic. Ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamkiller.4315 Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > Sure, if that's what you want to call it. It's no less valid than the **"I'm too skilled, I need you to make harder content, and give me better prizes for playing it" feedback. ** You should considering becoming a scarecrow, since you really like building straw men. Why don't you try finding for me where I argued for a hard mode. If not, I guess you were just grasping for straws wherever you could get them. You can't attack my argument directly so you have to make up a distorted version of it and attack it instead. > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > Again, stop underestimating people. Dude, _what_? Go back and read your own sentence. It reads exactly like a witty quip with no argumentative substance. I pretty much say "Lol you've probably felt pride or envy as emotions before" and you say something _completely_ irrelevant about "I never take pride in my envy to use it as an excuse for _eeeeviiiiiil_." _**What the heck**_?? :lol: > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > You were using those reactions as an excuse to not expand raids to others. And no, 7 *sins,* not 7 "things that could go either way, probably." I don't know why you keep calling them sins, are you trying to have a debate about Christian scripture or are you trying to have a debate about Guild Wars 2? Cause it seems awfully like the former right now. I'd advise you drop the ridiculous "seven deadly sins" spiel if you're truly interested in debating guild wars 2, and start recognizing them as these very common human emotions people will get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephylon.4938 Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > @"Teamkiller.4315" said: > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > Ok, what did I get wrong? What did I say that was not entirely accurate? > > > > That you don't have access to envoy armor, for example. You do. > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > And that's not good enough. It's a game, the point is not to "git gud" > > > > Yeah? And you're moving the goalposts. The point in contention I believe was that you were complaining you "can't have" these armors, wasn't it? But in fact you can, you just need to improve your skills. > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > Obviously. Why do you ask? > > > > I think you know why, but I got what I was looking for. Thx for answering. > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > You realize that you just listed off two of the "seven deadly sins," right? > > > No, but I don't think we should *reward* evil, we should recognize it and seek to do better, to *be* better. > > > > Oh brother, "evil", "sins". _Almost_ can't believe the lengths you'll go to in order to exaggerate perfectly normal human behavior. > > > Well pride was the devil’s sin. The first sin. Why are we going there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamkiller.4315 Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 > @"Sephylon.4938" said: > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > @"Teamkiller.4315" said: > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > Ok, what did I get wrong? What did I say that was not entirely accurate? > > > > > > That you don't have access to envoy armor, for example. You do. > > > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > And that's not good enough. It's a game, the point is not to "git gud" > > > > > > Yeah? And you're moving the goalposts. The point in contention I believe was that you were complaining you "can't have" these armors, wasn't it? But in fact you can, you just need to improve your skills. > > > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > Obviously. Why do you ask? > > > > > > I think you know why, but I got what I was looking for. Thx for answering. > > > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > You realize that you just listed off two of the "seven deadly sins," right? > > > > No, but I don't think we should *reward* evil, we should recognize it and seek to do better, to *be* better. > > > > > > Oh brother, "evil", "sins". _Almost_ can't believe the lengths you'll go to in order to exaggerate perfectly normal human behavior. > > > > > Well pride was the devil’s sin. The first sin. > > Why are we going there? He admitted that he might be trying to convert me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephylon.4938 Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 Lol thst's...... Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamkiller.4315 Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > I'm all ears. I would love to find a solution that everyone can agree with, and will discuss any solution offered, but too often the proposed "solution" is just "shut up and be happy with the current state of things," or "how about this thing that does nothing you want it to, but that I would be fine with?" Again, if players can only be happy with what other players do *not* get, then making them happy doesn't really matter. But you're not. Plenty of people you've been arguing with are okay conceptually with an easy mode. You know that guy Feanor you've been arguing with for 20 pages or so? He went into the 20 man raid thread and said this: > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > @"Ryudnard.2587" said: > > No rewards. It's more or less the same as accomplishing it as an easy mode. > > Actually. This might be fun. I like it. No changes to the existing mechanics, just zerg them down. I like this. :) Your ears are definitely not open. You made these two demands: "It needs to be easy enough to just pug 10 average open world players" "It needs to offer a path to the envoy armor that isn't much longer than that for normal raids" [You refuse to accept that you currently can farm open world for the envoy armor; amass a ludicrous amount of gold at Istan; say 100 days for 20k, then buy the raids] And you just **_have not budged one bit on them_**. Has it ever occurred to you that _your_ extreme position is actually making easy mode raids _more_ unlikely and ruining it for those people who actually want to see fair easy mode raids? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson.5160 Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 > @"Sephylon.4938" said: > Lol thst's...... > Lol That and I’m getting bored with these arguments that are going no where... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephylon.4938 Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > @"Sephylon.4938" said: > > Lol thst's...... > > Lol > > That and I’m getting bored with these arguments that are going no where... Mine was not an argument, but a reaction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yann.1946 Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 > @"Teamkiller.4315" said: > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > I'm all ears. I would love to find a solution that everyone can agree with, and will discuss any solution offered, but too often the proposed "solution" is just "shut up and be happy with the current state of things," or "how about this thing that does nothing you want it to, but that I would be fine with?" Again, if players can only be happy with what other players do *not* get, then making them happy doesn't really matter. > > But you're not. Plenty of people you've been arguing with are okay conceptually with an easy mode. You know that guy Feanor you've been arguing with for 20 pages or so? He went into the 20 man raid thread and said this: > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > @"Ryudnard.2587" said: > > > No rewards. It's more or less the same as accomplishing it as an easy mode. > > > > Actually. This might be fun. I like it. No changes to the existing mechanics, just zerg them down. I like this. :) > > Your ears are definitely not open. You made these two demands: > > "It needs to be easy enough to just pug 10 average open world players" > "It needs to offer a path to the envoy armor that isn't much longer than that for normal raids" [You refuse to accept that you currently can farm open world for the envoy armor; amass a ludicrous amount of gold at Istan; say 100 days for 20k, then buy the raids] > > And you just **_have not budged one bit on them_**. Has it ever occurred to you that _your_ extreme position is actually making easy mode raids _more_ unlikely and ruining it for those people who actually want to see fair easy mode raids? Thank you for also pointing this out. I said the same thing a few weeks ago and his the reaction was basically "i compromised already so i don't have to do more" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson.5160 Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 > @"Sephylon.4938" said: > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > @"Sephylon.4938" said: > > > Lol thst's...... > > > Lol > > > > That and I’m getting bored with these arguments that are going no where... > > Mine was not an argument, but a reaction. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson.5160 Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 > @"Teamkiller.4315" said: > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > I'm all ears. I would love to find a solution that everyone can agree with, and will discuss any solution offered, but too often the proposed "solution" is just "shut up and be happy with the current state of things," or "how about this thing that does nothing you want it to, but that I would be fine with?" Again, if players can only be happy with what other players do *not* get, then making them happy doesn't really matter. > > But you're not. Plenty of people you've been arguing with are okay conceptually with an easy mode. You know that guy Feanor you've been arguing with for 20 pages or so? He went into the 20 man raid thread and said this: > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > @"Ryudnard.2587" said: > > > No rewards. It's more or less the same as accomplishing it as an easy mode. > > > > Actually. This might be fun. I like it. No changes to the existing mechanics, just zerg them down. I like this. :) > > Your ears are definitely not open. You made these two demands: > > "It needs to be easy enough to just pug 10 average open world players" > "It needs to offer a path to the envoy armor that isn't much longer than that for normal raids" [You refuse to accept that you currently can farm open world for the envoy armor; amass a ludicrous amount of gold at Istan; say 100 days for 20k, then buy the raids] > > And you just **_have not budged one bit on them_**. Has it ever occurred to you that _your_ extreme position is actually making easy mode raids _more_ unlikely and ruining it for those people who actually want to see fair easy mode raids? I think a combination of 20 man raids with a new token system, with a time gated acquisition of a stat swap armor even with the refined skin, would probably meet like 95% of the issues presented here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson.5160 Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 The 20 man would allow for people to see the story, possibly assist with training, and I imagine would require limited dev time. A time gated stat swap armor using refined skin would probably keep people doing the 20 man version and would keep an elite version for the normal raids, just like WvW and soon to be PvP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now