Epidemic in raids needs to be nerfed

[Malediktus.9250]

It does not matter if you find it hard, it is objectively the most hard encounter in the game currently (also backed by the still high prices for a kill from raid sellers 6 months later).

And scourge definitely makes it significantly easier with their superior survivability while also doing more damage on that encounter. Builds which offer both superior survivability and damage are OP, you should have to choose between one of them.

[AnariiUK.7409]

Epi-bouncing is fun, it requires some teamwork and awareness that's pretty unique to necro. I'd like that to stay personally.

 

That said, it has become pretty clear that necro is absolutely overpowered at VG, Sabetha (We don't even do cannons anymore) and Desmina. And is incredibly strong at many other fights. Epidemic could simply be toned down such that it's still good if used correctly, but not completely overpowered (e.g only transfer 10 of each condi instead of 25).

 

I'd hate to see it nerfed into the ground, mainly because Scourge is extremely simple and spammy to play without epidemic. It's class defining at this point.

[Nimon.7840]

> @"AnariiUK.7409" said:

> Epi-bouncing is fun, it requires some teamwork and awareness that's pretty unique to necro. I'd like that to stay personally.

>

> That said, it has become pretty clear that necro is absolutely overpowered at VG, Sabetha (We don't even do cannons anymore) and Desmina. And is incredibly strong at many other fights. Epidemic could simply be toned down such that it's still good if used correctly, but not completely overpowered (e.g only transfer 10 of each condi instead of 25).

>

> I'd hate to see it nerfed into the ground, mainly because Scourge is extremely simple and spammy to play without epidemic. It's class defining at this point.

 

Well as a necro main I would have no problem with epi to be nerfed a bit.

But if you nerf it to 10 stacks. You need to heavily buff necro dmg output.

If it's heavy power reaper buff or heavy condi-reaper Buff I don't care. But if you don't buff it while nerfing epi, necro falls out of the meta again.

Like it did a dozen of times now.

You could also make this skill a specialization split like they did with the corruption trait. So scourge using epi will bounce 12-15 stacks while using it on reaper or core it's still transferring 25 or even 30.

 

The problem with scourge is, that it was meant to be a condition based support.

Not a dmg dealer. But necro doesn't have a real dmg spec.

And the support it does alone is pretty bad. Even if you go full heal, it's not nearly as good as tempest or renegade heal.

But if you stack Condi scourges. You don't even need a healer for your group.

 

My guild group is playing Condi druid for might, healtempest.

And we also stack scourges if everyone that plays DD has one.

We even thought about playing that on kc, intentionally get a red add and use epi in dmg phase.

Or on sloth you can use the allied slubling to epibounce while no other adds are available.

 

So. What I suggest is making healscourge more viable through a little bit better healing power scalings.

Then. Make scourge only transfer 15 stacks each condition on epi use.

Make reaper and core transfer 30stacks each condition on epi use.

Make power reaper viable.

 

Why reaper and core do more? Because they lock themselves out of utility skills while in shroud. If you look at condi-reaper rotation, you are in shroud for like 6-8seconds of the 18seconds rotation. So u cannot use epi there. If you use epi once, you will be in shroud next time it's cd is ready to be cast again.

Also it would encourage the players to take condi-reaper or thiefes or Condiremoval with them to get maximum epi stacks out. So stacking necro wouldn't be optimal. You could take like 3 necros and have to take 2 other DDS to maximize stacks on first target.

That's 2-3 necros less per raid.

And I would say, that would remove a lot of epibounce. Because playing a real good condi-reaper in a raid is much more harder than playing scourge. The rotation is more difficult. If you have to do cc you have to know, what to do next to not loose that much DPS. And you have to correctly use your finishers, which would be more difficult due to 4-5 other player using non-icefields.

 

But you cannot just need epi.

 

Another option would be a debuff on the enemy that the condis got transferred to.

So the ae cleave stays the same on one person, but if you bounce back it will only bounce 10-15 stacks back.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Nimon.7840" said:

> The problem with scourge is, that it was meant to be a condition based support.

> Not a dmg dealer. But necro doesn't have a real dmg spec.

Reaper was supposed to be a dmg spec. Problem is, it was better as a condi than power, but Anet wanted condi for scourge. Thus, they've been nerfing condi reaper, while trying to buff power spec up to a point where it _still_ is not even close to be competitive. And Scourge, that was supposed to be a support spec with condi damage, was better at that damage than at support (which considering the normal low level of dps it has doesn't tell us many good things about it support value). So, reaper got kept out of the meta, and scourge support and dps is so weak both can be considered good _only_ when you mass-stack the class and overuse Epi.

 

Solution? Epi probably needs to be limited somehow. Scourge needs massive buffs to support, so it really can be the spec it was meant to be (and it can't be just barriers/heal. tThere needs to be some dps increases in it as well. Maybe change shades from primarily dps source into more ritualist-like mechanic). Reaper needs again to be made into dps spec, both power and condi. And all of those things must happen at the same time - you can't simply nerf epi and say "the buffs will follow... maybe".

Probably, since the situation at the moment is mostly tied to scourge, you could start by a series of buffs to reaper first.

[Sephylon.4938]

I'd argue that it's not just damage that they need to buff for scourge. Most support classes have the ability to perma stack several boons, scourge can perma stack only might. No fury uptime, prot uptime comes at the cost of might up time, regen uptime is limited to staff 2, and no access to any other boons unless you count condi conversion.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Sephylon.4938" said:

> I'd argue that it's not just damage that they need to buff for scourge.

As i said, i think that for damage they should stick to reaper, and for scourge they should concentrate on buffing _buffs_. It should end up a support class with some side condi damage, not the opposite.

 

When i said "there needs to be some dps increases" i meant "it should be able to give more buffs that serve as dps increases", i did'nt mean they should increase dps for scourge.

 

 

[AnariiUK.7409]

> @"Sephylon.4938" said:

> I'd argue that it's not just damage that they need to buff for scourge. Most support classes have the ability to perma stack several boons, scourge can perma stack only might. No fury uptime, prot uptime comes at the cost of might up time, regen uptime is limited to staff 2, and no access to any other boons unless you count condi conversion.

 

There's always a tradeoff though, most other dedicated support classes give up nearly all of their personal damage to bolster their supportive abilities. The only exception being Druid, which makes up some of its lost damage through offensive team support (And broken Iboga pets). Even then, a DPS oriented druid with almost no healing output at all does less than half the damage of an epi-bouncing Scourge.

 

Currently Scourge is:

* Dealing very high damage (30k without epi, 40k with).

* Probably the best add cleave in the game.

* Stacking huge amounts of barrier.

* Rapid AoE condition cleansing with Nefarious Favor, used as a DPS _gain_.

* Permanent 25-might across a subgroup with Blood is Power and Oppressive Collapse.

* The ability to bring Blood magic at a minor DPS loss to further boost team support.

* A "free" utility slot that can be used to bring projectile destruction (CPC) or even a portal.

 

I feel if they are to increase Scourges support capabilities any further than this then they need to severely reduce the damage to compensate, buffing Reaper and keeping Scourge as a weaker support spec would be ideal.

[AnariiUK.7409]

Removed/Redacted

[Sephylon.4938]

> @"AnariiUK.7409" said:

> > @"Sephylon.4938" said:

> > I'd argue that it's not just damage that they need to buff for scourge. Most support classes have the ability to perma stack several boons, scourge can perma stack only might. No fury uptime, prot uptime comes at the cost of might up time, regen uptime is limited to staff 2, and no access to any other boons unless you count condi conversion.

>

> There's always a tradeoff though, most other dedicated support classes give up nearly all of their personal damage to bolster their supportive abilities. The only exception being Druid, which makes up some of its lost damage through offensive team support (And broken Iboga pets). Even then, a DPS oriented druid with almost no healing output at all does less than half the damage of an epi-bouncing Scourge.

>

> Currently Scourge is:

> * Dealing very high damage (30k without epi, 40k with).

> * Probably the best add cleave in the game.

> * Stacking huge amounts of barrier.

> * Rapid AoE condition cleansing with Nefarious Favor, used as a DPS _gain_.

> * Permanent 25-might across a subgroup with Blood is Power and Oppressive Collapse.

> * The ability to bring Blood magic at a minor DPS loss to further boost team support.

> * A "free" utility slot that can be used to bring projectile destruction (CPC) or even a portal.

>

> I feel if they are to increase Scourges support capabilities any further than this then they need to severely reduce the damage to compensate, buffing Reaper and keeping Scourge as a weaker support spec would be ideal.

 

That damage assumes a viper set up with atleast 1 other necro in the party though, not a harrier's or something similar. And assuming a pure damage setup, they can only stack a 4k barrier on 5 people unless they're willing to give up 2.4k lf to get 2.4k barrier to 3-10 other people. The nefarious favor spam falls under the same category, costing 1.9k lf to remove 1 condi on 3-10 people. Basically the class relishes in high add situations and completely starves in a boss only scenarios.

 

I wouldn't mind giving up offensive capabilities **IF** scourge becomes an actual support spec, but knowing anet, that isn't likely.

[Anchoku.8142]

There is one sure way to prevent profession stacking but people do not like automated PUG squad formation.

[Feanor.2358]

> @"Anchoku.8142" said:

> There is one sure way to prevent profession stacking but people do not like automated PUG squad formation.

 

Yeah, people don't want to be matched with arbitrary other players of questionable skill when they are up against the most challenging content in the game. Imagine that.

[Nimon.7840]

> @"Sephylon.4938" said:

> > @"AnariiUK.7409" said:

> > > @"Sephylon.4938" said:

> > > I'd argue that it's not just damage that they need to buff for scourge. Most support classes have the ability to perma stack several boons, scourge can perma stack only might. No fury uptime, prot uptime comes at the cost of might up time, regen uptime is limited to staff 2, and no access to any other boons unless you count condi conversion.

> >

> > There's always a tradeoff though, most other dedicated support classes give up nearly all of their personal damage to bolster their supportive abilities. The only exception being Druid, which makes up some of its lost damage through offensive team support (And broken Iboga pets). Even then, a DPS oriented druid with almost no healing output at all does less than half the damage of an epi-bouncing Scourge.

> >

> > Currently Scourge is:

> > * Dealing very high damage (30k without epi, 40k with).

> > * Probably the best add cleave in the game.

> > * Stacking huge amounts of barrier.

> > * Rapid AoE condition cleansing with Nefarious Favor, used as a DPS _gain_.

> > * Permanent 25-might across a subgroup with Blood is Power and Oppressive Collapse.

> > * The ability to bring Blood magic at a minor DPS loss to further boost team support.

> > * A "free" utility slot that can be used to bring projectile destruction (CPC) or even a portal.

> >

> > I feel if they are to increase Scourges support capabilities any further than this then they need to severely reduce the damage to compensate, buffing Reaper and keeping Scourge as a weaker support spec would be ideal.

>

> That damage assumes a viper set up with atleast 1 other necro in the party though, not a harrier's or something similar. And assuming a pure damage setup, they can only stack a 4k barrier on 5 people unless they're willing to give up 2.4k lf to get 2.4k barrier to 3-10 other people. The nefarious favor spam falls under the same category, costing 1.9k lf to remove 1 condi on 3-10 people. Basically the class relishes in high add situations and completely starves in a boss only scenarios.

>

> I wouldn't mind giving up offensive capabilities **IF** scourge becomes an actual support spec, but knowing anet, that isn't likely.

 

Exactly this from above ( @"AnariiUK.7409" )!

 

And I want to add something:

 

Same goes for might. As one necro you cannot give permanent 25 might, you need 3 more to do so.

I cannot even do it with 50 %boon duration.

Which you don't have on vipers

 

Free utility slot? No you don't have that. You either play epi, or something that generates lf. So it's most likely shadow fiend.

Or if you want to give that up you can do so. But you will never ever reach 30k DPS with that then.

 

Oh and btw. I never ever saw someone over 22k DPS on soloboss. Even on proplayer streams.

30 is a little bit exaggerated.

 

Blood magic is only minor DPS loss? In which world are you living?

You loose a lot of condition dmg.

And try to use f4 often in a fight with only a few adds. Good luck doing dmg with no lf left

[AnariiUK.7409]

> @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > @"Sephylon.4938" said:

> > > @"AnariiUK.7409" said:

> > > > @"Sephylon.4938" said:

> > > > I'd argue that it's not just damage that they need to buff for scourge. Most support classes have the ability to perma stack several boons, scourge can perma stack only might. No fury uptime, prot uptime comes at the cost of might up time, regen uptime is limited to staff 2, and no access to any other boons unless you count condi conversion.

> > >

> > > There's always a tradeoff though, most other dedicated support classes give up nearly all of their personal damage to bolster their supportive abilities. The only exception being Druid, which makes up some of its lost damage through offensive team support (And broken Iboga pets). Even then, a DPS oriented druid with almost no healing output at all does less than half the damage of an epi-bouncing Scourge.

> > >

> > > Currently Scourge is:

> > > * Dealing very high damage (30k without epi, 40k with).

> > > * Probably the best add cleave in the game.

> > > * Stacking huge amounts of barrier.

> > > * Rapid AoE condition cleansing with Nefarious Favor, used as a DPS _gain_.

> > > * Permanent 25-might across a subgroup with Blood is Power and Oppressive Collapse.

> > > * The ability to bring Blood magic at a minor DPS loss to further boost team support.

> > > * A "free" utility slot that can be used to bring projectile destruction (CPC) or even a portal.

> > >

> > > I feel if they are to increase Scourges support capabilities any further than this then they need to severely reduce the damage to compensate, buffing Reaper and keeping Scourge as a weaker support spec would be ideal.

> >

> > That damage assumes a viper set up with atleast 1 other necro in the party though, not a harrier's or something similar. And assuming a pure damage setup, they can only stack a 4k barrier on 5 people unless they're willing to give up 2.4k lf to get 2.4k barrier to 3-10 other people. The nefarious favor spam falls under the same category, costing 1.9k lf to remove 1 condi on 3-10 people. Basically the class relishes in high add situations and completely starves in a boss only scenarios.

> >

> > I wouldn't mind giving up offensive capabilities **IF** scourge becomes an actual support spec, but knowing anet, that isn't likely.

>

> Exactly this from above ( @"AnariiUK.7409" )!

>

> And I want to add something:

>

> Same goes for might. As one necro you cannot give permanent 25 might, you need 3 more to do so.

> I cannot even do it with 50 %boon duration.

> Which you don't have on vipers

>

> Free utility slot? No you don't have that. You either play epi, or something that generates lf. So it's most likely shadow fiend.

> Or if you want to give that up you can do so. But you will never ever reach 30k DPS with that then.

>

> Oh and btw. I never ever saw someone over 22k DPS on soloboss. Even on proplayer streams.

> 30 is a little bit exaggerated.

>

> Blood magic is only minor DPS loss? In which world are you living?

> You loose a lot of condition dmg.

> And try to use f4 often in a fight with only a few adds. Good luck doing dmg with no lf left

 

You're right about the might, I was wrong there. Looking at some logs it seems a single DPS scourge with 0% boon duration keeps up about 10-12 might across a subgroup. So 2 scourges + a chrono is plenty to reach the cap.

 

Example raid log: https://dps.report/LgPF-20180424-213525_sab

(Before BiP and confusion buffs)

 

In the above log none of us really play necro so I'm sure it can be better, but my point here is that when conditions are right, the damage ramps up enormously. And when stacking multiple scourges, so does the support. We don't kill any cannons, so the floor is completely covered in AoE, with a condition based druid. We survive simply due to the sheer amount of barrier and condition cleanse spam from the Scourges. Boss DPS peaks at ~35k in phase 1 after a very short ramp up, and proceeds to drop due to the phases. (At phaseless fights like Desmina the boss damage can easily be maintained at 40k+).

 

The "free" utility slot is Trail of Anguish, not epi. Since it contributes very little to overall DPS. It can be traded for Sandswell for a tiny loss or CPC for a small gain/projectile destruction.

 

Dropping Death magic for Blood magic resulted in the loss of Dhuumfire and slightly longer Shroud cooldown. From our testing this dropped said scourge down by about 2k DPS. However you need to keep in mind that the Vampiric Aura buff gains back much of this lost DPS in the form of team damage. You also gain the signet on the boss, which contributes too.

 

I do think that solo support scourge is underwhelming currently and would love to see it buffed up. However being realistic, they absolutely shouldn't buff the support any further without severely limiting the damage capabilities of the class (e.g through an epidemic nerf). Otherwise we'll just see the support multiplied through scourge stacking even further.

[Nimon.7840]

> @"AnariiUK.7409" said:

> > @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > > @"Sephylon.4938" said:

> > > > @"AnariiUK.7409" said:

> > > > > @"Sephylon.4938" said:

> > > > > I'd argue that it's not just damage that they need to buff for scourge. Most support classes have the ability to perma stack several boons, scourge can perma stack only might. No fury uptime, prot uptime comes at the cost of might up time, regen uptime is limited to staff 2, and no access to any other boons unless you count condi conversion.

> > > >

> > > > There's always a tradeoff though, most other dedicated support classes give up nearly all of their personal damage to bolster their supportive abilities. The only exception being Druid, which makes up some of its lost damage through offensive team support (And broken Iboga pets). Even then, a DPS oriented druid with almost no healing output at all does less than half the damage of an epi-bouncing Scourge.

> > > >

> > > > Currently Scourge is:

> > > > * Dealing very high damage (30k without epi, 40k with).

> > > > * Probably the best add cleave in the game.

> > > > * Stacking huge amounts of barrier.

> > > > * Rapid AoE condition cleansing with Nefarious Favor, used as a DPS _gain_.

> > > > * Permanent 25-might across a subgroup with Blood is Power and Oppressive Collapse.

> > > > * The ability to bring Blood magic at a minor DPS loss to further boost team support.

> > > > * A "free" utility slot that can be used to bring projectile destruction (CPC) or even a portal.

> > > >

> > > > I feel if they are to increase Scourges support capabilities any further than this then they need to severely reduce the damage to compensate, buffing Reaper and keeping Scourge as a weaker support spec would be ideal.

> > >

> > > That damage assumes a viper set up with atleast 1 other necro in the party though, not a harrier's or something similar. And assuming a pure damage setup, they can only stack a 4k barrier on 5 people unless they're willing to give up 2.4k lf to get 2.4k barrier to 3-10 other people. The nefarious favor spam falls under the same category, costing 1.9k lf to remove 1 condi on 3-10 people. Basically the class relishes in high add situations and completely starves in a boss only scenarios.

> > >

> > > I wouldn't mind giving up offensive capabilities **IF** scourge becomes an actual support spec, but knowing anet, that isn't likely.

> >

> > Exactly this from above ( @"AnariiUK.7409" )!

> >

> > And I want to add something:

> >

> > Same goes for might. As one necro you cannot give permanent 25 might, you need 3 more to do so.

> > I cannot even do it with 50 %boon duration.

> > Which you don't have on vipers

> >

> > Free utility slot? No you don't have that. You either play epi, or something that generates lf. So it's most likely shadow fiend.

> > Or if you want to give that up you can do so. But you will never ever reach 30k DPS with that then.

> >

> > Oh and btw. I never ever saw someone over 22k DPS on soloboss. Even on proplayer streams.

> > 30 is a little bit exaggerated.

> >

> > Blood magic is only minor DPS loss? In which world are you living?

> > You loose a lot of condition dmg.

> > And try to use f4 often in a fight with only a few adds. Good luck doing dmg with no lf left

>

> You're right about the might, I was wrong there. Looking at some logs it seems a single DPS scourge with 0% boon duration keeps up about 10-12 might across a subgroup. So 2 scourges + a chrono is plenty to reach the cap.

>

> Example raid log: https://dps.report/LgPF-20180424-213525_sab

> (Before BiP and confusion buffs)

>

> In the above log none of us really play necro so I'm sure it can be better, but my point here is that when conditions are right, the damage ramps up enormously. And when stacking multiple scourges, so does the support. We don't kill any cannons, so the floor is completely covered in AoE, with a condition based druid. We survive simply due to the sheer amount of barrier and condition cleanse spam from the Scourges. Boss DPS peaks at ~35k in phase 1 after a very short ramp up, and proceeds to drop due to the phases. (At phaseless fights like Desmina the boss damage can easily be maintained at 40k+).

>

> The "free" utility slot is Trail of Anguish, not epi. Since it contributes very little to overall DPS. It can be traded for Sandswell for a tiny loss or CPC for a small gain/projectile destruction.

>

> Dropping Death magic for Blood magic resulted in the loss of Dhuumfire and slightly longer Shroud cooldown. From our testing this dropped said scourge down by about 2k DPS. However you need to keep in mind that the Vampiric Aura buff gains back much of this lost DPS in the form of team damage. You also gain the signet on the boss, which contributes too.

>

> I do think that solo support scourge is underwhelming currently and would love to see it buffed up. However being realistic, they absolutely shouldn't buff the support any further without severely limiting the damage capabilities of the class (e.g through an epidemic nerf). Otherwise we'll just see the support multiplied through scourge stacking even further.

 

Then there isn't any need to nerf epi. Just nerf scourge dmg and buff reaper dmg. Then improve scourge support and you have it.

No need to nerf epi. When scourge isnt A real good DD anymore.

 

That's exactly the problem some people have. New spec or class = has to be better at everything.

 

No. And that wasnt the intention on especs.

 

Take ele as example. It has a very potent heal spec and a very potent dmg spec. However. Tempest was supposed to be a support from beginning and where did it start? Top DPS role back in hot.

 

It took them quite a lot of time to get it, where it should have been from the beginning.

 

So maybe next espec for ele is a tank-spec.

 

Same goes for necro:

Reaper was meant to be slow but hard hitting power bruiser spec.

It started as condi spec. And we are still nowhere being hard hitting bruiser.

Now scourge came, which was meant to be condition based support.

 

We'll. We all can see the line. Maybe when next X-Pac comes out, scourge will be the support it was meant to be. And I hope power reaper will be a thing much earlier.

 

 

[Malediktus.9250]

https://old.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/8lwh4u/lucky_noobs_ln_soulless_horror_kill_without_druid/

so much class diversity, a whole 3 different specs! And like 70% of the group dps just from using a single utility skill lol

[Jojo.6140]

> @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> It was already OP before, I was just too lazy to make a topic about it. Until people discussed this very topic on a teamspeak today. And bouncing one skill is not a valid strategy that should be endorsed by Anet, especially if it makes some supposed to be hard counters like 50% easier. I know for sure that stacking necroes in Dhuum CM has been common for quite a while now, it is just that good now and mediocre necroes outpeform good weavers.

 

So now that you got your easy dhuum CM kill with your scourge-group, you want it to be nerfed so following groups will have it harder? Well thats not how it works.

[DeadlySynz.3471]

> @"RaidsAreEasyAF.8652" said:

> > @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > > @"RaidsAreEasyAF.8652" said:

> > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > > Fun fact: epi is not working better now than then. In tre semi-recent history it has been reworked exactly once, and that was the nerf meant for WvW (that definitely didn't improve anything in pve). It's not overperforming any more than it did when you made those previous comments. The only difference is that eles got dialed back from their previous unreasonable levels.

> > > >

> > >

> > > The thing that changed Epi and made it absolutely broken is Scourge. Reaper was basically only stacking bleeding and a tiny bit of Torment. Scourge stacks Burning, Torment and Bleeding. Scourge brings way more Conditions to bounce than Reaper or Core Necro.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > But at these times. You had a Condi berserker or could even take a Condi rev with you. So no. Nothing rlly changed

>

> And right now you dont have to take a Condi Berserker. That only makes sense on VG but still.

> Yes, you could have taken a condi rev. With Scourge you dont have to take a Condi Rev for torment and can use another Scourge for another Epi. One Epi isnt the problem. The problem is the stacking of Scourges.

>

> Would you say that a Condi class should get ~28k Boss DPS on VG? A Boss that has basically no toughness. Weaver dealt ~25k Boss DPS pre patch. That was without the Spotter, EA and Frost Spirit nerf.

> Scourge is able to get ~40-42k Boss DPS on Desmina, meaning that it deals more DPS on an actual Boss than the current top DPS Class can deal on a large golem.

>

> It might only be used on 4 bosses, on those 4 bosses however it is a huge problem.

 

What exactly is the problem with a scourge being the top dps? Or even the top Dps on certain bosses (4 bosses)? Epi has a niche use, a very niche use, so in certain situations is just going to do more damage. In many other situations, its completely useless. If the complaints are coming from people that think epi is overpowered in raids causing bosses to die quicker.. the amount of players in this game who actually find an issue with that has to be less than 20 overall and that's being generous, it's a non-issue.

 

I'm also certain many other people have a problem with Ele being the top DPS (well maybe not anymore after the meteor shower nerf), but why don't we gut Ele's dps by 30% to bring them in line... sound good?

[Kam.4092]

Can we lock this thread already? It's just the same argument bounced around by now. We get the point, people don't want Necromancer to be good in PvE.

[Sephylon.4938]

> @"Kam.4092" said:

> Can we lock this thread already? It's just the same argument bounced around by now. We get the point, people don't want Necromancer to be good in PvE.

 

Gonna 2nd this notion, lock pls

[sigur.9453]

> @"Kam.4092" said:

> Can we lock this thread already? It's just the same argument bounced around by now. We get the point, people don't want Necromancer to be good in PvE.

 

you didn´t get it at all it seams

[Voltekka.2375]

If ONE skill is what makes a class viable, it is pretty self explanatory whether that skill is overpowered or not...

[RaidsAreEasyAF.8652]

> @"DeadlySynz.3471" said:

> What exactly is the problem with a scourge being the top dps?

 

There is no problem with Scourge being top dps. The problem is that its top dps with literally one skill.

 

>Or even the top Dps on certain bosses (4 bosses)? Epi has a niche use, a very niche use, so in certain situations is just going to do more damage. In many other situations, >its completely useless. If the complaints are coming from people that think epi is overpowered in raids causing bosses to die quicker.. the amount of players in this game >who actually find an issue with that has to be less than 20 overall and that's being generous, it's a non-issue.

 

And you get those numbers from where?

 

> I'm also certain many other people have a problem with Ele being the top DPS (well maybe not anymore after the meteor shower nerf), but why don't we gut Ele's dps by >30% to bring them in line... sound good?

 

Ele did get a well deserved MS nerf (I dont agree on how they nerfed it but still) and a well deserved Tempest Defense nerf.

Also do you really wanna compare Weaver with Scourge? Okay.

 

Stacking Scourges gives you a fuck ton of barrier. No Greens VG is really easy due to it. If you wanna be extra save you can take Parasitic Contagion, which would heal you for about 2k every second on VG. Due to this you dont need a Druid on VG. You dont even need one on Xera and Sabetha. Yesterday LN uploaded a Viode where they did Desmina without a Healer. Scourge is way to strong on the bosses it is used on.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"DeadlySynz.3471" said:

> I'm also certain many other people have a problem with Ele being the top DPS (well maybe not anymore after the meteor shower nerf), but why don't we gut Ele's dps by 30% to bring them in line... sound good?

 

As it's probably been explained on countless threads, including this one, an Ele doing top DPS is a 1-shot kill dead. On the other hand, the Scourge isn't. Nerf Ele DPS to "bring them in line" how about giving the Ele higher armor, more health, better healing skills (while using a full DPS build Ele healing is bad) to "bring them in line" in terms of survivability?

[Agrippa Oculus.3726]

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > @"DeadlySynz.3471" said:

> > I'm also certain many other people have a problem with Ele being the top DPS (well maybe not anymore after the meteor shower nerf), but why don't we gut Ele's dps by 30% to bring them in line... sound good?

>

> As it's probably been explained on countless threads, including this one, an Ele doing top DPS is a 1-shot kill dead. On the other hand, the Scourge isn't. Nerf Ele DPS to "bring them in line" how about giving the Ele higher armor, more health, better healing skills (while using a full DPS build Ele healing is bad) to "bring them in line" in terms of survivability?

 

As I've also explained on the Ele forum, stop with that more HP nonsense already. It's _the_ single worst defensive ability you can have in the PvE endgame and that's also pretty much the only defensive thing the Necro has (next to _some_ Protection access, ... and let's be honest: barrier is only a temporary HP buff anyway).

So, by all means, _let's_ raise that HP pool of the Ele, and just for fairness, let's take away his/her invulns, blocks, vigor, etc. .... See how that works out!

 

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> (while using a full DPS build Ele healing is bad)

 

And that's exactly the real issue right there: You don't _have_ to play a full DPS build to be **viable** in raids! But noooo, then you would loose DPS and maybe even plummet to the level of that of a(n) (epiless) Necro even (of course not, cause that would be **really** low, the absolute lowest actually). And I don't even blame you Eles, cause the actual problem lies in the fact that you ARE able to choose to be the top DPS. Imo ANet should've never gave you that ability in the first place! Imo an Elementalist (or Weaver for that matter) should just like the name implies make use of _all_ the Elements to reach its highest potential. Not focus on one thing alone, and be the absolute best at it! It's really wrong design. Give that ability to a thief for instance or a dark class (wagering your own health/defence), like in so many other (MMO)RPG's.

[Feanor.2358]

> @"Kam.4092" said:

> Can we lock this thread already? It's just the same argument bounced around by now. We get the point, people don't want Necromancer to be good in PvE.

 

Excuse me. I don't mind necros being good. However, a team composed of 7 scourges, 2 chronos and a warrior which kills a raid boss in 2 mins isn't being "good". It isn't even being overpowered. That shit is broken and needs to go.