Epidemic in raids needs to be nerfed

[Voltekka.2375]

> @"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said:

> > @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > > @"DeadlySynz.3471" said:

> > > I'm also certain many other people have a problem with Ele being the top DPS (well maybe not anymore after the meteor shower nerf), but why don't we gut Ele's dps by 30% to bring them in line... sound good?

> >

> > As it's probably been explained on countless threads, including this one, an Ele doing top DPS is a 1-shot kill dead. On the other hand, the Scourge isn't. Nerf Ele DPS to "bring them in line" how about giving the Ele higher armor, more health, better healing skills (while using a full DPS build Ele healing is bad) to "bring them in line" in terms of survivability?

>

> As I've also explained on the Ele forum, stop with that more HP nonsense already. It's _the_ single worst defensive ability you can have in the PvE endgame and that's also pretty much the only defensive thing the Necro has (next to _some_ Protection access, ... and let's be honest: barrier is only a temporary HP buff anyway).

> So, by all means, _let's_ raise that HP pool of the Ele, and just for fairness, let's take away his/her invulns, blocks, vigor, etc. .... See how that works out!

>

No, it is not, You may not remember how hard druids had it when they switched from full magi, to harriers. But then again, necro never had issues with hp, as with scourge that became even more of a meme cause barriers give nec another 10k hp easily. I wouldnt expect nec mains ( I am one of them in wvw) to get what higher hp pool means. Temporary buff or not, that stuff stacks.

> > @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > (while using a full DPS build Ele healing is bad)

>

> And that's exactly the real issue right there: You don't _have_ to play a full DPS build to be **viable** in raids! But noooo, then you would loose DPS and maybe even plummet to the level of that of a(n) (epiless) Necro even (of course not, cause that would be **really** low, the absolute lowest actually). And I don't even blame you Eles, cause the actual problem lies in the fact that you ARE able to choose to be the top DPS. Imo ANet should've never gave you that ability in the first place! Imo an Elementalist (or Weaver for that matter) should just like the name implies make use of _all_ the Elements to reach its highest potential. Not focus on one thing alone, and be the absolute best at it! It's really wrong design. Give that ability to a thief for instance or a dark class (wagering your own health/defence), like in so many other (MMO)RPG's.

 

"Weaver should attune to all elements for max dps!" Well, 3 out of 4 is pretty good as far as element attunement goes (current meta uses 3 attunements). We should probably remove spellbreaker from top dps as well, it doesnt cause any spellbreaking whatsoever. Or core guardian, as it is now meta, too, in dps. I mean, it doesnt guard, eh? Dragonhunter should go as well, it hunts no dragons!

 

 

[CptAurellian.9537]

> @"Voltekka.2375" said:

> If ONE skill is what makes a class viable, it is pretty self explanatory whether that skill is overpowered or not...

 

Indeed. However, the entire discussion becomes absurd when people pushing for the well-deserved epi nerf at the same time deny the need for compensation in other areas.

[Malediktus.9250]

> @"Jojo.6140" said:

> > @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > It was already OP before, I was just too lazy to make a topic about it. Until people discussed this very topic on a teamspeak today. And bouncing one skill is not a valid strategy that should be endorsed by Anet, especially if it makes some supposed to be hard counters like 50% easier. I know for sure that stacking necroes in Dhuum CM has been common for quite a while now, it is just that good now and mediocre necroes outpeform good weavers.

>

> So now that you got your easy dhuum CM kill with your scourge-group, you want it to be nerfed so following groups will have it harder? Well thats not how it works.

Assume much? I got dhuum cm kill in january and it was with zero necros.

[steki.1478]

> @"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said:

> > @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > > @"DeadlySynz.3471" said:

> > > I'm also certain many other people have a problem with Ele being the top DPS (well maybe not anymore after the meteor shower nerf), but why don't we gut Ele's dps by 30% to bring them in line... sound good?

> >

> > As it's probably been explained on countless threads, including this one, an Ele doing top DPS is a 1-shot kill dead. On the other hand, the Scourge isn't. Nerf Ele DPS to "bring them in line" how about giving the Ele higher armor, more health, better healing skills (while using a full DPS build Ele healing is bad) to "bring them in line" in terms of survivability?

>

> As I've also explained on the Ele forum, stop with that more HP nonsense already. It's _the_ single worst defensive ability you can have in the PvE endgame and that's also pretty much the only defensive thing the Necro has (next to _some_ Protection access, ... and let's be honest: barrier is only a temporary HP buff anyway).

> So, by all means, _let's_ raise that HP pool of the Ele, and just for fairness, let's take away his/her invulns, blocks, vigor, etc. .... See how that works out!

>

> > @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > (while using a full DPS build Ele healing is bad)

>

> And that's exactly the real issue right there: You don't _have_ to play a full DPS build to be **viable** in raids! But noooo, then you would loose DPS and maybe even plummet to the level of that of a(n) (epiless) Necro even (of course not, cause that would be **really** low, the absolute lowest actually). And I don't even blame you Eles, cause the actual problem lies in the fact that you ARE able to choose to be the top DPS. Imo ANet should've never gave you that ability in the first place! Imo an Elementalist (or Weaver for that matter) should just like the name implies make use of _all_ the Elements to reach its highest potential. Not focus on one thing alone, and be the absolute best at it! It's really wrong design. Give that ability to a thief for instance or a dark class (wagering your own health/defence), like in so many other (MMO)RPG's.

 

And when you take those defensive utilities, your tankiness becomes same as other classes and your dps drops to their (or even lower, depending on class) level. Sounds balanced to me.

[Feanor.2358]

> @"steki.1478" said:

> > @"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said:

> > > @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > > > @"DeadlySynz.3471" said:

> > > > I'm also certain many other people have a problem with Ele being the top DPS (well maybe not anymore after the meteor shower nerf), but why don't we gut Ele's dps by 30% to bring them in line... sound good?

> > >

> > > As it's probably been explained on countless threads, including this one, an Ele doing top DPS is a 1-shot kill dead. On the other hand, the Scourge isn't. Nerf Ele DPS to "bring them in line" how about giving the Ele higher armor, more health, better healing skills (while using a full DPS build Ele healing is bad) to "bring them in line" in terms of survivability?

> >

> > As I've also explained on the Ele forum, stop with that more HP nonsense already. It's _the_ single worst defensive ability you can have in the PvE endgame and that's also pretty much the only defensive thing the Necro has (next to _some_ Protection access, ... and let's be honest: barrier is only a temporary HP buff anyway).

> > So, by all means, _let's_ raise that HP pool of the Ele, and just for fairness, let's take away his/her invulns, blocks, vigor, etc. .... See how that works out!

> >

> > > @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > > (while using a full DPS build Ele healing is bad)

> >

> > And that's exactly the real issue right there: You don't _have_ to play a full DPS build to be **viable** in raids! But noooo, then you would loose DPS and maybe even plummet to the level of that of a(n) (epiless) Necro even (of course not, cause that would be **really** low, the absolute lowest actually). And I don't even blame you Eles, cause the actual problem lies in the fact that you ARE able to choose to be the top DPS. Imo ANet should've never gave you that ability in the first place! Imo an Elementalist (or Weaver for that matter) should just like the name implies make use of _all_ the Elements to reach its highest potential. Not focus on one thing alone, and be the absolute best at it! It's really wrong design. Give that ability to a thief for instance or a dark class (wagering your own health/defence), like in so many other (MMO)RPG's.

>

> And when you take those defensive utilities, your tankiness becomes same as other classes and your dps drops to their (or even lower, depending on class) level. Sounds balanced to me.

 

Well no. A glass necro will always be more tanky than a glass ele. It has almost twice the hp.That's a fact. It doesn't count for that much since you get active defenses from the party, but it is still a difference.

[Voltekka.2375]

> @"CptAurellian.9537" said:

> > @"Voltekka.2375" said:

> > If ONE skill is what makes a class viable, it is pretty self explanatory whether that skill is overpowered or not...

>

> Indeed. However, the entire discussion becomes absurd when people pushing for the well-deserved epi nerf at the same time deny the need for compensation in other areas.

 

I fully agree. Nec should get substantial damage buffs (reaper), or more support oriented buffs (scourge), if epi were to get nerfed.

[Grogba.6204]

Pretty sure this was said before by someone else in this thread:

 

Epidemic stays as it is.

If Epidemic is used against any foe, the initial target receives an immunity (unremovable) to additional casts of Epidemic (10-15 seconds).

 

Positive aspect:

+ Epidemic remains a powerful spell for a singular Necromancer (Clearing adds, cleave dmg)

+ Number of Necromancers in a group reliant on the number of adds. If we have two Necros they enable each other and would thus normalize the DPS compared to other specs.

 

Negative aspect:

- Current form still possible at specific fights albait "harder" to pull off (Coordination)

- Fights where this would still be possible: VG, Gorseval, Sabetha, Slothasor, Mursaat Overseer + CM, Samarog, Desmina CM

- Technically possible: Keep Construct, Xera

 

My opinion: I don't really mind Epi bouncing that much but it is insanely powerful in a coordinated group. My proposed change would also still allow this practice to work in almost all the fights it is a problem too, only making it harder by having to target different mobs.

 

However, I think we can agree that Slothasor, both forms of MO and regular Samarog are not the problem here. Either the fights are easy enough already and there is still other things to take care off (plus Slublings, despite being possible epi targets, are easy to kill) and given Slothasor's and Samarog's CC mechanics Condi dps is worse than power to begin with.

 

Now W1 is another story as every single boss regularly spawns mobs to Epi bounce from. Again, spirits, orbs and regular bandits are rather easy to kill but since Gorseval and Sabetha are stationary and there is little else to keep track off Epi bouncing would remain valid there. I have nothing for VG, really. Seekers being insane health sponges and having three of them every time you could Epi anyway... Possible solution: Every currently spawned seeker gains immunity once one received it?

 

Ultimately, Desmina CM would still allow this but having one or two fights where Epibouncing with a lot of necros *is* a viable strategy to a boss is something I don't mind honestly. Same goes for superior Weaver DPS in other fights or Mirage being the best DPS choice for Cairn and Matthias.

[Feanor.2358]

> @"Grogba.6204" said:

> Pretty sure this was said before by someone else in this thread:

>

> Epidemic stays as it is.

> If Epidemic is used against any foe, the initial target receives an immunity (unremovable) to additional casts of Epidemic (10-15 seconds).

 

Yeah, this seems to be the most straightforward fix.

[steki.1478]

Or just increase cooldown to 25+ seconds. Epi will still be relevant, but you cant abuse it since fights which you want to burst down fast would probably be better with power/burn focused builds. Coordinated groups will still be able to pull high dps (balance shouldn't depend on performance of such groups anyways) and epi can still be used as a reliable add clear.

[Grogba.6204]

> @"steki.1478" said:

> Or just increase cooldown to 25+ seconds. Epi will still be relevant, but you cant abuse it since fights which you want to burst down fast would probably be better with power/burn focused builds. Coordinated groups will still be able to pull high dps (balance shouldn't depend on performance of such groups anyways) and epi can still be used as a reliable add clear.

 

Wouldn't really change anything but make Desmina more clunky to play if you bring Necros to that fight.

 

Edit:

To expand on this: Considering how the class was utilized in raid content in the past and seeing how Desmina works (randomness of walls, golem spawnpattern) as well as the skills Scourge receives (Sand Portal, Barrier for the group, ammunition system for shades) I am convinced the cd of Epidemic and the spawn rate of golems are intentional. Probably with the goal of creating a fight where Necromancer shines.

 

Increasing the cd of Epidemic would just end up making the fight more annoying for groups playing with Scourges since you would need two of them to use Epidemic everytime a golem spawns, making a bounce impossible with just two Necros (Unless you take a different approach for every other Golem) and thus forcing you to stack more Necros for a bounce to begin with.

 

Addionally, this wouldn't fix the other bosses where Epidemic bouncing is problematic since you won't have valid targets every 20 seconds to begin with.

[Walhalla.5473]

> @"Grogba.6204" said:

> Pretty sure this was said before by someone else in this thread:

>

> Epidemic stays as it is.

> If Epidemic is used against any foe, the initial target receives an immunity (unremovable) to additional casts of Epidemic (10-15 seconds).

>

 

I had a similar idea a few days ago. The initial target gets the debuff like in your idea but instead of being immune to additional casts of epidemic that debuff would make the initial target immune to any receiving epic condis ( normal conditions still being applied ). This would make epi for a good add clear ( especially if you bring more scourges ) but kill the epi bounce tactic which could be a different problem if other skills don't get buffed. Also I'm not sure if this idea of mine could work mechanically or just bug around and make the initial target immune to all condis.

 

But something needs to be done in case of this skill. The scourge should be able to put up a good amount of dps without relying on one utility skill and that skill needs to be rebalanced or reworked so it can't be abused for ridiculous boss melting.

[Grogba.6204]

> @"Walhalla.5473" said:

 

> I had a similar idea a few days ago. The initial target gets the debuff like in your idea but instead of being immune to additional casts of epidemic that debuff would make the initial target immune to any receiving epic condis ( normal conditions still being applied ). This would make epi for a good add clear ( especially if you bring more scourges ) but kill the epi bounce.

 

I like this approach- Allows massive condi spam going outwards (Trio, Escort) while still preventing abuse. :+1:

 

[TexZero.7910]

> @"Grogba.6204" said:

> I like this approach- Allows massive condi spam going outwards (Trio, Escort) while still preventing abuse. :+1:

It also kills teamplay and removes any viable spots for necro's from raiding.

 

But hey that's the goal right, can't have necro doing respectable damage. Gotta leave that to Ele, cause if we ain't running 4 necro's we'll for sure be back to the 4 Ele garbage.

 

 

[Malediktus.9250]

If this your idea of team play, it should indeed be killed

[TexZero.7910]

> @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> If this your idea of team play, it should indeed be killed

 

Far more engaging teamplay than the boredom that was 6 years of ele on top.

Sorry the masterclass ain't on top all the time anymore. Time to embrace a meta where necro's are actually viable.

[Feanor.2358]

> @"TexZero.7910" said:

> > @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > If this your idea of team play, it should indeed be killed

>

> Far more engaging teamplay than the boredom that was 6 years of ele on top.

> Sorry the masterclass ain't on top all the time anymore. Time to embrace a meta where necro's are actually viable.

 

TIL "necro" has been redefined to mean "epidemic".

And speaking of boredom, playing an ele has always been waaaaay more engaging than pressing one utility skill.

[Funky.4861]

I've said it before and i'll say it again: GIVE OTHER CLASSES ACCESS TO AN EPIDEMIC-LIKE SKILL (eg. engi/sb/thief). What happens then? We'll probably still have a necro or two (barrier), but presto those other classes would see some more use.

 

The issue is not the use of epidemic at all (requires high group co-ordination) but that it's only on one class. Anet gave quickness and alacrity to other classes and now firebrand/renegade is a thing- the same opportunities would happen if they shared-out epidemic; it would not remove scourge totally but give us more options in terms of composition.

[Catchyfx.5768]

> @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > @"Grogba.6204" said:

> > Pretty sure this was said before by someone else in this thread:

> >

> > Epidemic stays as it is.

> > If Epidemic is used against any foe, the initial target receives an immunity (unremovable) to additional casts of Epidemic (10-15 seconds).

>

> Yeah, this seems to be the most straightforward fix.

 

And What about if you hit boss with meteor -> boss get buff And take dmg ONLY from you, stop elestacking. Weavers everywhere...Brain dead.

 

1.Necro doesnt have bigger dmg because of big healthpool hiii Warrior

2.necro have low DPS because ez rotation. Hello thiefs And SB/SB soulbeast Also Warrior

3.necro stacking Is bad for the game, but weaver stacking Is ok.

 

If you remove epidemic, you take away one of few good skills fór cleave And necro get Back max +5% Axe AA buff...And epistacking Is harder then learning when to press this skill And What skill after that. Fingermemory Is ez.

 

And excuse for that you take everything for dmg And then beying ultrasquishy Is your problem..

[Feanor.2358]

> @"Catchyfx.5768" said:

> > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > @"Grogba.6204" said:

> > > Pretty sure this was said before by someone else in this thread:

> > >

> > > Epidemic stays as it is.

> > > If Epidemic is used against any foe, the initial target receives an immunity (unremovable) to additional casts of Epidemic (10-15 seconds).

> >

> > Yeah, this seems to be the most straightforward fix.

>

> And What about if you hit boss with meteor -> boss get buff And take dmg ONLY from you, stop elestacking. Weavers everywhere...Brain dead.

>

> 1.Necro doesnt have bigger dmg because of big healthpool hiii Warrior

> 2.necro have low DPS because ez rotation. Hello thiefs And SB/SB soulbeast Also Warrior

> 3.necro stacking Is bad for the game, but weaver stacking Is ok.

>

> If you remove epidemic, you take away one of few good skills fór cleave And necro get Back max +5% Axe AA buff...And epistacking Is harder then learning when to press this skill And What skill after that. Fingermemory Is ez.

>

> And excuse for that you take everything for dmg And then beying ultrasquishy Is your problem..

 

Yeah, no. Epistacking is exactly as hard as someone pressing one skill and few other people waiting to press the same skill. It is way too easy, and it dominates the damage output of the necromancers in a way Meteor Shower or Overload Air never did. And they both got nerfed more than once for being outliers. Epi needs to go in its current state.

 

Furthermore, stacking weavers isn't the same as stacking scourges. For one simple reason - weavers do *nothing* except dps. You stack weavers knowing full well you end up with a very fragile team comp. If you pull it off - good job. If you don't, you wipe. Stacking scourges doesn't result in the same. To the contrary, it results in extremely durable team comp, which can often afford to ditch a healer to get an extra scourge. See the difference, and the problem?

[Grogba.6204]

This goes beyond "Scourge is too easy to play for this kind of damage" vs "Elementalist does too much damage", however.

 

The thing is, Epidemic in itself is among one of the best cleave skills in the game thanks to it's huge range circle and dot based damage meaning the target _will_ die while also allowing to reposition it (see Desmina). Bouncing adds another layer of depth to the skill as it allows to coordinate condi bombs back to a single target.

 

A **single** Scourge does mediocre DPS (compared with other specs) but still has access to utility in form of barrier, great cc (Golem), boonstrip (if necessary) and repositioning (Sand Portal). These things are situational and Reaper definitively needs buffs to bring it closer to other melee specs.

 

**Two** Scourges enable each other to Condibounce, at this point it becomes a strategic choice for specific encounters. The second Scourge will likely surpass other DPS specs but it comes at the cost of the first Scourge doing less. It evens out to a degree.

 

The problem arises if you go beyond that: three Scourges? four Scourges? five Scourges? They still have access to their utility skills and can even reduce the number in favor of more DPS (Only one Sand Portal, Plague Lands in favour of Golem). It completely compromises future content generation because as soon as you add minions to a fight Scourge **will** break the encounter. How do you design and balance fights with 200k dps in mind when a Scourge squad can hit 300k? Either you make it harder, thus make stacking Scourges necessary or leave it as it is and have squads fill up with Scourges naturally because the DPS difference is that big? Never have another Boss with minions because a single skill can abuse a multitarget fight? Make the encounter/minions immune to conditions and make other classes unplayable because of Scourge?

 

Elementalist is busted in it's own regard, there is no denying that but as much as Scourge "sucks" against the Testgolem the benchmarks heavily favour Weaver, too. (No movement, permanent buffuptime, no incoming damage, no mechanics) And we do have boss fights where Weaver is not recommended (Matthias, Cairn, Desmina).

 

I say it again:

Epidemic in itself and the ability to bounce conditions are fine. However, _Unlimited_ bouncing makes it broken. And one easy solution would be making individual targets impossible to bounce from for a short time after the first(maaaaybe second) Epidemic cast.

 

[Catchyfx.5768]

LoL guys lets fuck Up necro even more...gj take him everything useful. Weaver masterrace...

[Walhalla.5473]

> @"TexZero.7910" said:

> > @"Grogba.6204" said:

> > I like this approach- Allows massive condi spam going outwards (Trio, Escort) while still preventing abuse. :+1:

> It also kills teamplay and removes any viable spots for necro's from raiding.

>

> But hey that's the goal right, can't have necro doing respectable damage. Gotta leave that to Ele, cause if we ain't running 4 necro's we'll for sure be back to the 4 Ele garbage.

>

>

 

Expect the goal isn't to ensure ele's domination on top. The goal is to make sure that a class isn't defined by one utility skill that can be abused to do ridiculous amount of damage. And Scourge right now is completely defined by this skill. Without it people would stop to take necros into their groups. Its quite close to the slick shoes situation back in wing 1. Slick shoes was the only reason for groups to take engis and that skill completely trivialised breakbars. There was no denying that this skill needed a change and does Epi.

The challenge here is to change epi in a way to still make it useful without busting scourge. Epi as it works is a really good add killer and it should stay this way but it shouldn't be abusable to bounce it back to the boss ( as much fun as it is, it can break encounters with add quite easily ), thats where my debuff idea came from. You could still spam epi like crazy to kill adds but the boss wouldn't melt like a snowball in hell. The next step to ensure that Scourge isn't screwed without epi is to ensure that its normal skill can do enough damage, which means buffing the stuff. Benchmarkwise I would go to around 32-33k dps on a single target fight, which is reasonable since with epi it would be a good add killer.

For the rest of the benchmark I also think that something should be done about those 40k+ builds because if we assume that 32k single target dps is reasonable then 40k+ single target is too much to show up in a benchmark. ( and those cases also need some rebalancing then so they wouldn't be useless against small hitboxes and their dps wouldn't take such a big hit, when mechanics, missclicks, dodges or not perfect boonuptime happen )

[Sephylon.4938]

> @"Walhalla.5473" said:

> > @"TexZero.7910" said:

> > > @"Grogba.6204" said:

> > > I like this approach- Allows massive condi spam going outwards (Trio, Escort) while still preventing abuse. :+1:

> > It also kills teamplay and removes any viable spots for necro's from raiding.

> >

> > But hey that's the goal right, can't have necro doing respectable damage. Gotta leave that to Ele, cause if we ain't running 4 necro's we'll for sure be back to the 4 Ele garbage.

> >

> >

>

> The challenge here is to change epi in a way to still make it useful without busting scourge. Epi as it works is a really good add killer and it should stay this way but it shouldn't be abusable to bounce it back to the boss ( as much fun as it is, it can break encounters with add quite easily ), thats where my debuff idea came from. You could still spam epi like crazy to kill adds but the boss wouldn't melt like a snowball in hell. The next step to ensure that Scourge isn't screwed without epi is to ensure that its normal skill can do enough damage, which means buffing the stuff.

 

Stuff such as........

Gonna have to give examples as specific as your nerf to so epi here or I'll assume the buff you want for scourge is a 10% axe buff to make power scourge useable

[Walhalla.5473]

> @"Sephylon.4938" said:

> > @"Walhalla.5473" said:

> > > @"TexZero.7910" said:

> > > > @"Grogba.6204" said:

> > > > I like this approach- Allows massive condi spam going outwards (Trio, Escort) while still preventing abuse. :+1:

> > > It also kills teamplay and removes any viable spots for necro's from raiding.

> > >

> > > But hey that's the goal right, can't have necro doing respectable damage. Gotta leave that to Ele, cause if we ain't running 4 necro's we'll for sure be back to the 4 Ele garbage.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > The challenge here is to change epi in a way to still make it useful without busting scourge. Epi as it works is a really good add killer and it should stay this way but it shouldn't be abusable to bounce it back to the boss ( as much fun as it is, it can break encounters with add quite easily ), thats where my debuff idea came from. You could still spam epi like crazy to kill adds but the boss wouldn't melt like a snowball in hell. The next step to ensure that Scourge isn't screwed without epi is to ensure that its normal skill can do enough damage, which means buffing the stuff.

>

> Stuff such as........

> Gonna have to give examples as specific as your nerf to so epi here or I'll assume the buff you want for scourge is a 10% axe buff to make power scourge useable

 

Yeah, because a 10% axe buff is making everything considering necro viable.....

 

Lets be serious here. The stuff here could be something like longer duration of the conditions inflicted from the condi skills and/or more stacks from those skills.

[Malediktus.9250]

> @"Sephylon.4938" said:

> > @"Walhalla.5473" said:

> > > @"TexZero.7910" said:

> > > > @"Grogba.6204" said:

> > > > I like this approach- Allows massive condi spam going outwards (Trio, Escort) while still preventing abuse. :+1:

> > > It also kills teamplay and removes any viable spots for necro's from raiding.

> > >

> > > But hey that's the goal right, can't have necro doing respectable damage. Gotta leave that to Ele, cause if we ain't running 4 necro's we'll for sure be back to the 4 Ele garbage.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > The challenge here is to change epi in a way to still make it useful without busting scourge. Epi as it works is a really good add killer and it should stay this way but it shouldn't be abusable to bounce it back to the boss ( as much fun as it is, it can break encounters with add quite easily ), thats where my debuff idea came from. You could still spam epi like crazy to kill adds but the boss wouldn't melt like a snowball in hell. The next step to ensure that Scourge isn't screwed without epi is to ensure that its normal skill can do enough damage, which means buffing the stuff.

>

> Stuff such as........

> Gonna have to give examples as specific as your nerf to so epi here or I'll assume the buff you want for scourge is a 10% axe buff to make power scourge useable

 

It is the job of Anet's balance team to buff the class if they deem it necessary. We just make them aware of a glaring issue with the class in its current state.