Lucentfir.7430 Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > @"Aza.2105" said: > > A shrinking population just means there aren't any new players being brought in. I have a lot of friends that enjoy pvp in mmos, but will not play gw2. Many have tried it but then decided to play something else. When I ask them why its generally the same response: > > > > * Downed in about a second and they have no idea what happened > > > > * Toxicity > > > > * Tons of visual clutter > > > > * Too much pressure in conquest mode > > > > I can't say that I blame them. GW2 is not a fair pvp game. If I was a new player and never invested much time into this game, I'd choose to play something else that is more competitive. > > > > It was a fair pvp game before the 15th June patch, then what was left got destroyed when the only 2 experienced devs left and the game fallen in total ruin I miss Grouch and JSharp :[ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenghisKhan.7842 Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 Personal opinion as a returning player who left before HoT - ANet needs to sell expansions and latest exps elites allow for stronger builds (SB, Scourge, Mirage, etc): you can make sure next exp's elite will be stronger than PoF's - Agree with less skill and more spam involved: before leaving, there were some things that actually mattered in PVP: dodge timing, landing CCs after stability wore off, using cleanses, healing and elites at best time. Now with tons of buffs, tons of condis, tons of damage, tons of everything, every single move matters less - Burst: very few builds had bursts capable of 1-shotting opponents, and only if both were glass spec. Now 1-shot bursts are almost the norm. It means shorter, less tactical fights - Too long balance cycles, simply unbearable - Only the same old Conquest mode after 6 years. Stronghold is just even worse to me My proposal is perhaps controversial and drastic: strongly decrease the number of traits, runes and amulets. In this way the number of working combination per each profession gets much lower, and it can be easier to tweak skill numbers with the aim of having a few viable builds per profession But doesn't seem like Anet would ever do that, even if they are listening... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutOfOrder.3719 Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 Now that some win traders and hackers have been banned, my search times have improved in PvP. I might even suggest that PvP is more active now due to Anet finally taking some action to ban these players. Thank you Anet ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icy.2186 Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 Personally, I stopped queueing the 5v5 mode after the last balance patch. 5v5 game mode is just not very fun for me as a thief player. D/p has been reduced to nothing but avoiding people like a paranoid schizo and running through dark corners from far to short to mid and so on. And in the meantime, youre just getting 1shot if you make a mistake. P/P with the optimal 3 3 3 3 3 rotation, deadeyes permastealth 1shots, core guard 1shots, mesmer 1shots, palpatine elemental lightning 1shots, any ranger longbow doing 15k damage. Necros cluttering the entire screen with proper aids. Id imagine that even being a class with a higher healthpool, getting chunked for 80-90% of your health is certainly not entertaining. From a new player perspective, holding W and getting 1shot non stop by things you dont understand, and never will understand because there is simply no time to even read 2 rows of boons everyone seems to have 100% uptime on nowdays.. lets say i doubt anyone will go through 5 matches of that type. Or you have the opposite of 1shot builds and thats never get hit builds. Condi thieves with every single attack also being an evade and the actual evade being an attack, bunker mesmers with the legendary block evade block evade invulnerable evade block combo ( not counting the actual evade but the offense / defense attack ). Passive aoe block ticks from guards, more block, more block, invulnerability. Pvp in general in 5v5 seems to be reduced to nothing else but either be in an iframe / have protection and blocks up or get 1shot for the most part. And then its a tossup over which team has more classes with good res/downstate spells. Whether thats good balance or whatever it may be, it simply is not enjoyable and id imagine for a lot of new players its very fucking confusing, because it was confusing to me too after coming from a break that started before HoT came out. Now after its not as confusing, its certainly as boring if not even more boring. Even though warriors are generally a nice solo class, and should be able to handle thieves and are an absolute pain to fight, i pray to god that i run into one. Purely because if i lose to a warrior i wont lose to a 1shot. Getting farmed 1v1 in WvW by a warrior is 10 times more satisfying than playing a 5v5 conquest match regardless of its outcome, to me anyway. Edit: How could i possibly forget holosmith 1shots. There are so many 1shots in the game right now that i cannot even think of all of them at the top of my head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilypop.7819 Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 If the pop is getting low then the most likely cause is that the scale of cheating has reached the entry levels. Secondly, For skill development rather than knowledge attainment, high burst needs to come with high handicaps - in GW2 Pvp this is never the case. As such newish players are driven to cheating rather than skill development because the latter is ineffective or unobtainable, most just bin the game mode or have a very low pain threshold for the gameplay. The game just comes down to maxing your burst dps and getting your key marco in before they do, and as such there is no gameplay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackBeard.2873 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"Allarius.5670" said: > (2) Barrier to Entry/Learning > > New players feel completely lost and the onus is on the player to learn the ins and outs of all aspects of PvP on their own. > > > Build variety for the player and opponents are overwhelming to new entries. > > > Conquest overwhelms new players with complexity of combat, nodes, map rotations, secondary objectives, etc. > > > Players appear to struggle to adapt to shifts in META due to a culture of adherence rather than experimentation. There seems to be an unwillingness to embrace new ways of playing the game. Part of this looks like it may stem from the amount of investment that goes into a single game: queue time plus a long game time, even for a blow out loss. There is no queue supported mode that encourages experimental iteration and learning. > Very good points. This one in particular reveals that it was actually very harmful when they got rid of 8v8 rooms and the "Play Now" button. While you learn basically nothing about conquest from 8v8, it is a great place for casual pvp-ers to get used to fighting other people without the risk of getting flamed. Sure, you might get rekt, but you can always zerg up to go kill the guy camping you. Also, even the worst player will get some kills, feel good, and have their appetite for more blood stoked. Also, the instant nature was great for people who just wanted to kill some things, or for killing some time while queuing, or testing builds. I think a LOT of casuals left pvp after the removal of these rooms, and it has hurt the game mode from attracting more new players as there isn't really a "training wheels" mode anymore. **TeamQ vs no ranked TeamQ** This has always been a problem of populations. Allowing teams to queue in ranked isn't a problem until you reach the very top of the leaderboards. A team of silver players queuing together can be placed against an appropriate team of gold solo's and you can get a great game when properly tuned. The amount that coordination helps actually scales with the skill of players. A bunch of silver players queued together probably doesn't do much better than a bunch of silver solo's, because they don't necessarily understand rotational tactics anyway. Throw a random platinum player in there who can help direct them, and he is worth way more to the team, who now has a more viable strategy. Tuning the right "psueudo-rating" to add to a team to pair vs. proper solos might be challenging, but it is certainly doable with enough data. Where ranked TeamQ falls apart is at the very top of the leaderboard, where there is no longer any solo teams that are appropriately skilled to make up for a "team advantage." A team of top-200 players will stomp any team of even super-pugs. It gets even worse with off-hours queuing. In a game with a ton of population, this would just mean that the other highly-rated, highly-competitive players would just form teams, but when there are only a few top players even playing at any time, its not even possible. If there were enough players, then having a dedicated teamQ or mixed Q would both be fine. As it is, there just is no good solution. You either end up with queue dodging and teams that go 200-4, or you allow no teams (or no teams above a certain ranking). There isn't really a fair solution to a problem that results in having such a small playerbase. Therefore, your best solution is....go play a game that is more fun and has better balance!! GW2 is a PvE only game now, so don't waste your time on any other aspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azure The Heartless.3261 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 A couple of thoughts on this. Let me just address first: > @"Ithilwen.1529" said: > I've been mostly away playing GW1 because it's more fun than GW2 pvp.. it's really as simple as that. **My beloved Mesmer is a constant scapegoat and nerf target.** *The balance swings so wildly that I can't trust the game to be fair.* Mesmers have _never_ experienced the pain of true nerfing, if I remember balancing so far correctly. Remember the outrage over the scepter torment stack modification? > @"Grogba.6204" said: > It's probably one of the most toxic pvp environments I have encountered over tons of games so far. I put up with almost a decade of League of Legends and the "fire and block" amount of insults thrown around combined with the terrible balance and general state of pvp just make the mode unenjoyable in the long run. I think this is a key factor. I was one of the individuals that voted for the removal of team queue from ranked, because experiences vs premades happened often, were often blowouts, and left me frustrated in my attempts to give PuGs direction if it seemed like individuals were new. Since then, my experience has been _slightly better_ than before (the cheating notwithstanding), but I've noticed that the issue with the removal of team queue **is valid.** Kind of. Team queue gives purpose to informal pvp guilds, purpose to informal/freeplay discords, and insulates players against the toxicity often spouted by people who can't understand how to not be a jackkitten. With its removal from ranked, I can see why a ton of people feel like the purpose for their guilds has been gutted. However. I don't think I buy into all of that testimony. If guilds simply wanted to pvp with their friends, it's not like they cannot still do that. Automatic Tournaments and Unranked both allow full premades. If the purpose was just to pvp with friends whether for rewards or socializing, that option still exists. Insisting that that allowance be granted to ranked, especially since solo players have a large presence in the pvp scene and would do worse for it, is seeking _something else._ That being said, **I do still think that teammates should have the ability to queue anytime with their friends, if they can coordinate a group.** Perhaps ATs should be more frequent, or a team queue that explicitly places premades vs. premades should be given a trial run. If the teams can muster the population to run it, why not give it to them 24/7? If we've done that before or evidence says that the user pool is too low to afford teamvteam, point me to that please. Also, balance. This coupled with the player toxicity makes the game unforgiving for new players, and annoying for veterans. PVP guilds might be able to offset this, perhaps? > > @"Aza.2105" said: > > A shrinking population just means there aren't any new players being brought in. I have a lot of friends that enjoy pvp in mmos, but will not play gw2. Many have tried it but then decided to play something else. When I ask them why its generally the same response: > > > > * Downed in about a second and they have no idea what happened > > > > * Toxicity > > > > * Tons of visual clutter > > > > * Too much pressure in conquest mode > > > > I can't say that I blame them. GW2 is not a fair pvp game. If I was a new player and never invested much time into this game, I'd choose to play something else that is more competitive. > > > This. > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said > > Edit: How would I address PVP population? (lets just assume any of these are possible): > >* actively engage the community even more, constantly acknowledging feedback in some way > >* fix issues with a large consensus of importance > >* offer more frequent tournaments, or introduce a tournament league with a leader board > >* as I fix issues, create content to show off the game mode and stream as well Also this. There's a huge need for developers to appear as if they have interest in this game mode, and not just look as if they are plugging holes in a leaky dam to stop it from immediately collapsing, as well. I understand manpower may be strained and that back and forths with the community are hard to get done, but there needs to be at least an outreach. Relative silence coupled with balancing patches that make strong specs stronger and weak specs weaker are corrosive to the playerbase. I will add, though, that the scale back of passives for most classes was a good direction for Anet to take. If that pattern continues, balance might improve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nova.3817 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"BlackBeard.2873" said: > > @"Allarius.5670" said: > > (2) Barrier to Entry/Learning > > > New players feel completely lost and the onus is on the player to learn the ins and outs of all aspects of PvP on their own. > > > > > Build variety for the player and opponents are overwhelming to new entries. > > > > > Conquest overwhelms new players with complexity of combat, nodes, map rotations, secondary objectives, etc. > > > > > Players appear to struggle to adapt to shifts in META due to a culture of adherence rather than experimentation. There seems to be an unwillingness to embrace new ways of playing the game. Part of this looks like it may stem from the amount of investment that goes into a single game: queue time plus a long game time, even for a blow out loss. There is no queue supported mode that encourages experimental iteration and learning. > > > > Very good points. This one in particular reveals that it was actually very harmful when they got rid of 8v8 rooms and the "Play Now" button. While you learn basically nothing about conquest from 8v8, it is a great place for casual pvp-ers to get used to fighting other people without the risk of getting flamed. Sure, you might get rekt, but you can always zerg up to go kill the guy camping you. Also, even the worst player will get some kills, feel good, and have their appetite for more blood stoked. > > Also, the instant nature was great for people who just wanted to kill some things, or for killing some time while queuing, or testing builds. I think a LOT of casuals left pvp after the removal of these rooms, and it has hurt the game mode from attracting more new players as there isn't really a "training wheels" mode anymore. > > **TeamQ vs no ranked TeamQ** > This has always been a problem of populations. Allowing teams to queue in ranked isn't a problem until you reach the very top of the leaderboards. A team of silver players queuing together can be placed against an appropriate team of gold solo's and you can get a great game when properly tuned. The amount that coordination helps actually scales with the skill of players. A bunch of silver players queued together probably doesn't do much better than a bunch of silver solo's, because they don't necessarily understand rotational tactics anyway. Throw a random platinum player in there who can help direct them, and he is worth way more to the team, who now has a more viable strategy. Tuning the right "psueudo-rating" to add to a team to pair vs. proper solos might be challenging, but it is certainly doable with enough data. > > Where ranked TeamQ falls apart is at the very top of the leaderboard, where there is no longer any solo teams that are appropriately skilled to make up for a "team advantage." A team of top-200 players will stomp any team of even super-pugs. It gets even worse with off-hours queuing. In a game with a ton of population, this would just mean that the other highly-rated, highly-competitive players would just form teams, but when there are only a few top players even playing at any time, its not even possible. If there were enough players, then having a dedicated teamQ or mixed Q would both be fine. As it is, there just is no good solution. You either end up with queue dodging and teams that go 200-4, or you allow no teams (or no teams above a certain ranking). There isn't really a fair solution to a problem that results in having such a small playerbase. > > Therefore, your best solution is....go play a game that is more fun and has better balance!! GW2 is a PvE only game now, so don't waste your time on any other aspect. > > your post explains why team que should be in the game bc spvp in gw2 shouldn't be taken seriously bc there is not enough resources at anet to balance it properly ergo the focus should be just to encourage fun gameplay... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackBeard.2873 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"Nova.3817" said: > > @"BlackBeard.2873" said: > > > @"Allarius.5670" said: > > > (2) Barrier to Entry/Learning > > > > New players feel completely lost and the onus is on the player to learn the ins and outs of all aspects of PvP on their own. > > > > > > > Build variety for the player and opponents are overwhelming to new entries. > > > > > > > Conquest overwhelms new players with complexity of combat, nodes, map rotations, secondary objectives, etc. > > > > > > > Players appear to struggle to adapt to shifts in META due to a culture of adherence rather than experimentation. There seems to be an unwillingness to embrace new ways of playing the game. Part of this looks like it may stem from the amount of investment that goes into a single game: queue time plus a long game time, even for a blow out loss. There is no queue supported mode that encourages experimental iteration and learning. > > > > > > > Very good points. This one in particular reveals that it was actually very harmful when they got rid of 8v8 rooms and the "Play Now" button. While you learn basically nothing about conquest from 8v8, it is a great place for casual pvp-ers to get used to fighting other people without the risk of getting flamed. Sure, you might get rekt, but you can always zerg up to go kill the guy camping you. Also, even the worst player will get some kills, feel good, and have their appetite for more blood stoked. > > > > Also, the instant nature was great for people who just wanted to kill some things, or for killing some time while queuing, or testing builds. I think a LOT of casuals left pvp after the removal of these rooms, and it has hurt the game mode from attracting more new players as there isn't really a "training wheels" mode anymore. > > > > **TeamQ vs no ranked TeamQ** > > This has always been a problem of populations. Allowing teams to queue in ranked isn't a problem until you reach the very top of the leaderboards. A team of silver players queuing together can be placed against an appropriate team of gold solo's and you can get a great game when properly tuned. The amount that coordination helps actually scales with the skill of players. A bunch of silver players queued together probably doesn't do much better than a bunch of silver solo's, because they don't necessarily understand rotational tactics anyway. Throw a random platinum player in there who can help direct them, and he is worth way more to the team, who now has a more viable strategy. Tuning the right "psueudo-rating" to add to a team to pair vs. proper solos might be challenging, but it is certainly doable with enough data. > > > > Where ranked TeamQ falls apart is at the very top of the leaderboard, where there is no longer any solo teams that are appropriately skilled to make up for a "team advantage." A team of top-200 players will stomp any team of even super-pugs. It gets even worse with off-hours queuing. In a game with a ton of population, this would just mean that the other highly-rated, highly-competitive players would just form teams, but when there are only a few top players even playing at any time, its not even possible. If there were enough players, then having a dedicated teamQ or mixed Q would both be fine. As it is, there just is no good solution. You either end up with queue dodging and teams that go 200-4, or you allow no teams (or no teams above a certain ranking). There isn't really a fair solution to a problem that results in having such a small playerbase. > > > > Therefore, your best solution is....go play a game that is more fun and has better balance!! GW2 is a PvE only game now, so don't waste your time on any other aspect. > > > > > > your post explains why team que should be in the game bc spvp in gw2 shouldn't be taken seriously bc there is not enough resources at anet to balance it properly ergo the focus should be just to encourage fun gameplay... I don't think the whole player base would agree with that statement, but I personally do. At this point, ANet's focus for pvp should be on making it as fun and engaging as it possible can for as many players as possible. If that drives away the 50 or so players who really care about top-tier competition, who cares? Of course, players who want to believe that this game is viable competitively won't agree, but I would argue catering to the competitive portion of the crowd at this point does more harm. I doubt there will be a significant renaissance in player population, but you would at least see more players come back if combat and the pvp game resulted in fun experiences again. GW2 will never be an esport, but they also approached esports the wrong way...they put the cart before the horse. They tried to force it to be competitive, or made things that are unidirectionally fun, and destroyed the overall fun of the combat along the way. Successful esports make games that are fun for the player AND his opponents during their interaction. Most successful sports start with a game that people truly enjoy, even when losing, and keeps players coming back for more until competition develops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nova.3817 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"BlackBeard.2873" said: > > @"Nova.3817" said: > > > @"BlackBeard.2873" said: > > > > @"Allarius.5670" said: > > > > (2) Barrier to Entry/Learning > > > > > New players feel completely lost and the onus is on the player to learn the ins and outs of all aspects of PvP on their own. > > > > > > > > > Build variety for the player and opponents are overwhelming to new entries. > > > > > > > > > Conquest overwhelms new players with complexity of combat, nodes, map rotations, secondary objectives, etc. > > > > > > > > > Players appear to struggle to adapt to shifts in META due to a culture of adherence rather than experimentation. There seems to be an unwillingness to embrace new ways of playing the game. Part of this looks like it may stem from the amount of investment that goes into a single game: queue time plus a long game time, even for a blow out loss. There is no queue supported mode that encourages experimental iteration and learning. > > > > > > > > > > Very good points. This one in particular reveals that it was actually very harmful when they got rid of 8v8 rooms and the "Play Now" button. While you learn basically nothing about conquest from 8v8, it is a great place for casual pvp-ers to get used to fighting other people without the risk of getting flamed. Sure, you might get rekt, but you can always zerg up to go kill the guy camping you. Also, even the worst player will get some kills, feel good, and have their appetite for more blood stoked. > > > > > > Also, the instant nature was great for people who just wanted to kill some things, or for killing some time while queuing, or testing builds. I think a LOT of casuals left pvp after the removal of these rooms, and it has hurt the game mode from attracting more new players as there isn't really a "training wheels" mode anymore. > > > > > > **TeamQ vs no ranked TeamQ** > > > This has always been a problem of populations. Allowing teams to queue in ranked isn't a problem until you reach the very top of the leaderboards. A team of silver players queuing together can be placed against an appropriate team of gold solo's and you can get a great game when properly tuned. The amount that coordination helps actually scales with the skill of players. A bunch of silver players queued together probably doesn't do much better than a bunch of silver solo's, because they don't necessarily understand rotational tactics anyway. Throw a random platinum player in there who can help direct them, and he is worth way more to the team, who now has a more viable strategy. Tuning the right "psueudo-rating" to add to a team to pair vs. proper solos might be challenging, but it is certainly doable with enough data. > > > > > > Where ranked TeamQ falls apart is at the very top of the leaderboard, where there is no longer any solo teams that are appropriately skilled to make up for a "team advantage." A team of top-200 players will stomp any team of even super-pugs. It gets even worse with off-hours queuing. In a game with a ton of population, this would just mean that the other highly-rated, highly-competitive players would just form teams, but when there are only a few top players even playing at any time, its not even possible. If there were enough players, then having a dedicated teamQ or mixed Q would both be fine. As it is, there just is no good solution. You either end up with queue dodging and teams that go 200-4, or you allow no teams (or no teams above a certain ranking). There isn't really a fair solution to a problem that results in having such a small playerbase. > > > > > > Therefore, your best solution is....go play a game that is more fun and has better balance!! GW2 is a PvE only game now, so don't waste your time on any other aspect. > > > > > > > > > > your post explains why team que should be in the game bc spvp in gw2 shouldn't be taken seriously bc there is not enough resources at anet to balance it properly ergo the focus should be just to encourage fun gameplay... > > I don't think the whole player base would agree with that statement, but I personally do. At this point, ANet's focus for pvp should be on making it as fun and engaging as it possible can for as many players as possible. If that drives away the 50 or so players who really care about top-tier competition, who cares? Of course, players who want to believe that this game is viable competitively won't agree, but I would argue catering to the competitive portion of the crowd at this point does more harm. I doubt there will be a significant renaissance in player population, but you would at least see more players come back if combat and the pvp game resulted in fun experiences again. > > GW2 will never be an esport, but they also approached esports the wrong way...they put the cart before the horse. They tried to force it to be competitive, or made things that are unidirectionally fun, and destroyed the overall fun of the combat along the way. Successful esports make games that are fun for the player AND his opponents during their interaction. Most successful sports start with a game that people truly enjoy, even when losing, and keeps players coming back for more until competition develops. Sure wasn't implying everyone had my opinion... But with that said i played the game since release and even tho i read that the pvp community was shrinking over time i truely believe that the cause of that was a content drought in the pvp format. NOT that you could team que in ranked. At the end of the day games that have strong communities last longer and the patch to kill premade hurt the spvp community (maybe not in all ways but i cant see a way it helped more than it hurt) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeceiverX.8361 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 Entirely profession design and balance + powercreep/stat changes. The game mode would be tolerable if the fighting was actually good. Right now it's just spam + permanent everything with no consequence. There is no risk anymore. There are no sacrifices to do something. Effects and skills are over-cluttered and convoluted such that like a number of games, looking at the status bar is often more important than looking at the enemy (which was the original intent). The game has fundamentally moved to become more of a clone of every other failing MMO out there which all suck for PvP. GW2 had the potential but the gameplay experience itself since the change of direction with HoT does not deliver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kraitan.8476 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 False! The community is growing thanks to a fun & competitive meta. Kappa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Applesauce.5271 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"Kraitan.8476" said: > False! The community is growing thanks to a fun & competitive meta. Kappa I just uninstalled cause the meta.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Fear.1624 Posted April 24, 2018 Author Share Posted April 24, 2018 I have quit playing PVP. Big woop...I doubt the bronze league will miss me. Instead of making a long post about saying farewell after burning my copy of GW2 and leaving anet behind forever. I am going to put this here instead:  I don't want to make any absolute statements like : I'll NEVER comeback, only to have Anet pull a complete 180. Also this way I won't get snarky responses like "farewell, can I have your stuff?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamazuki.6073 Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 Pvp not really being successful is due to the core design of the game and the decisions after it. The developers failed to even do something as basic as set a maximum power level. X is bad, they buff _X_, then it's too good, so they introduce more of _Y_, but then _Y _is too good so they introduce _Z_ and buff _X_, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nova.3817 Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 > @"Yamazuki.6073" said: > Pvp not really being successful is due to the core design of the game and the decisions after it. The developers failed to even do something as basic as set a maximum power level. X is bad, they buff _X_, then it's too good, so they introduce more of _Y_, but then _Y _is too good so they introduce _Z_ and buff _X_, etc. on balance ANET likes to nerf whats OP and buff what is under powered and all that ever does it just change hands what is the OP class of the month never reaching a balance.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sylosi.6503 Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 > @"Crab Fear.1624" said: > From my perspective, it seems as if the PVP population is steadily shrinking. What else would you expect in a genre where the population of virtually every MMORPG follows a trend of decline over the medium to long term, even WoW that used to be an exception, has declined over the last few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nova.3817 Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 > @"Sylosi.6503" said: > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said: > > From my perspective, it seems as if the PVP population is steadily shrinking. > > What else would you expect in a genre where the population of virtually every MMORPG follows a trend of decline over the medium to long term, even WoW that used to be an exception, has declined over the last few years. > I think what he is saying that the rate of which its shrinking is not proportional to the rate of decrease the rest of the game is experiencing. least how i interpret Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Fear.1624 Posted April 24, 2018 Author Share Posted April 24, 2018 > @"Nova.3817" said: > > @"Sylosi.6503" said: > > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said: > > > From my perspective, it seems as if the PVP population is steadily shrinking. > > > > What else would you expect in a genre where the population of virtually every MMORPG follows a trend of decline over the medium to long term, even WoW that used to be an exception, has declined over the last few years. > > > > I think what he is saying that the rate of which its shrinking is not proportional to the rate of decrease the rest of the game is experiencing. least how i interpret This is Correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azel.4786 Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 Reading quickly through the thread I think one of the main reasons commented here for people to drop the mode is also the reason why I completely stopped playing sPvP (heck, now a days I only go to WvW to play with guildies on rally nights and that is it). One word: **Balance**. Balance was terrible before PoF for me (I loved playing Ele and I completely dread the Tempest spec - have personally never liked it) and with PoF and the disappointment that is weaver I became completely disinterested. A few weeks after painful experiences with Weaver, I decided to play faceroll necro - literally made my first necro (and I have been here since 2012), put points in scourge, used metabattle build and reached all the way to plat without knowing what half my skills / traits did. After becoming disgusted with this balance, I just gave up on PvP as a whole and have not touched it since November 2017 I think. I sometimes check back to see how ele sentiment is fairing (and metabattle too) and from forums and the balance patch notes, I see that nothing has changed for ele/weaver. So, no interest to go back either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thuggernaut.1250 Posted April 25, 2018 Share Posted April 25, 2018 The 5v5 conquest format is not fun and the maps all reflect that bad fundamental design decision. The class balances issues have gotten worse since HoT, but those could theoretically be fixed. The current sPvP format encourages zergling point rotations and favors high mobility and pressure to +1 (numerical imbalance) fights over any other criteria. These incentives lead to flavor-of-the-month builds and toxic, unsportsmanlike behavior. Until the format and the maps are changed (8v8 or better + larger maps, nerf mobility to even out classes), nothing will improve. ANet sacrificed fun and balance for e-sports, but the gamble didn't pay off. SPvP is not even close to an e-sport (very boring for spectators, like most e-sports) and WvW, the actually viable game mode, is dying from severe ANet neglect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnderzShadow.2506 Posted April 25, 2018 Share Posted April 25, 2018 > @"Thuggernaut.1250" said: > The current sPvP format encourages zergling point rotations and favors high mobility and pressure to +1 (numerical imbalance) fights over any other criteria. These incentives lead to flavor-of-the-month builds and toxic, unsportsmanlike behavior. I think the last major balance patch we had pushed this 'zerg' and rush points mentality even further. I'd even go so far to say that it enabled it. ps-Still waiting for them to eliminate class stacking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathul.1280 Posted April 25, 2018 Share Posted April 25, 2018 PvP'ing last night and A player on my team swapped out to play their Scourge moments before the match started. Great for my team yes, but I really wanted to report them for match manipulation. Because that is what it seems like. The generator puts the team together, but then players just swap out to stack classes last minute. Since this is allowed it is not considered manipulation yet somehow to me it really feels unsportsmanlike and manipulative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devilman.1532 Posted April 25, 2018 Share Posted April 25, 2018 population is getting to the point of laughably low Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacobin.8509 Posted April 25, 2018 Share Posted April 25, 2018 The mesmer spam is what killed it for me. Constant evasion and enemy/friendly clones blotting out the sun became scourge levels of cancer. Basically POF builds/slow balance has made spvp feel more like a chore than a fun experience. GW2 on hold until next LW episode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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