More Condi in WvW

[Sethanon Stormrage.6721]

> @zinkz.7045 said:

> Now I am not aiming this at you personally, but you did claim "we", the above is total BS, where were the complaints when you had a total power meta and the extent of condi was warriors using condi food to up thier immobilize time, where were the complaints over build/class diversity for most of the game when half the classes were subpar (and still are) whilst guards for example have always been vastly overrepesentated, the answer to that is largely nowhere.

>

> And the reason for that is WvW baddies do not give a flying toss about diversity or multiple styles, they just want to run round in a melee ball and play their style, and "diversity" only becomes an issue if their style becomes effected.

>

 

The the game was young when power meta was a thing. People weren't playing long enough to complain. But they did start to complain prior to the Condi buff.

 

But you are right there are those who want power only and not balance. I can see why as power fights are more fun. But the I'd prefer a balance between both. Means you have to think more on your feet.

 

Give other classes stability like guards and then it would balance out. But you can't survive without them. I'd rather play engineer but I can't and be effective as i want to be. It needs fixed but Condi needs fixed first.

 

>

> In the grand scheme of things it is nearly irrelevant, most of the big guilds/alliances (at least on EU) quit this game in the first 2 years, back when we had metas you would like (no real diversity of course but I guess you didn't complain then), which is why you are playing a gamemode that has basically had server merges, and even with 5-8 servers in a matchup has less activity than the old gold tier matchups had with just 3 servers (at least on EU).

>

 

Tbh most quit due to a lack of development of wvw. They got bored of fighting for no reward. Give them rewards and a platform for epeen and most would still be here.

Players quitting should always be relevant for devs. If you're a pve player site you don't care

But devs should aim to keep all their players tbh.

 

>

> The game mode has zero potential, it is five years old and fundamentally as an RvR mode it is badly flawed, as for "GvG" being an e-sport please, stop making me laugh, the sPvP in this game had no chance as an e-sport even when they spent 3 years balancing around it, because the skill level in this game is mediocre at best (and that was with the added skill cap of conquest the combat alone is not even mediocre skill wise), visually PvP was considered terrible to view as an "e-sport", GvG just takes that and makes it ten times worse.

>

 

The game mode as it is sucks. But the word potential means exactly that... potential. Tweaks to this game mode are what is needed to see that potential.

 

Spvp failed for it's own reasons. I think people struggled to connect with it. The larger scale of gvg and the marketing from shit talk from the guilds would have been enough to promote it as a competitive game mode. All it needs it to attract interest. It doesn't need to be LoL level of esport.

 

The public's interest is what's required not the level of play.

[anduriell.6280]

Maybe most of you don't like this ideas but i think this could solve a lot of issues in WvW.

 

1. Conditions do less damage per stack on the target, otherwise called "diminish returns". Which means first stack will do full damage, but the 20th maybe will do much less. This would be applied for each condition type, being the less base damage it does the more stacks it can have. As an example: bleed would apply 2% less damage per additional stack ( 50 stacks to reach 1 damage per tick ) meanwhile burning could have a 5% per stack (max 20 stacks before the damage become 1 ).

2. As to lighten the server load, conditions and boon effects are calculated on cast and not being modified after. This should not fix but at least improve the load as it should be less network traffic (you only need to the actual values) .

3. In WvW and PvP conditions like confusion and torment retrieve their _purity of purpose_ to make a differentiating qualities between condition effects as right now every condition seems like an improvement over the old. Torment only deal damage when moving and confusion when casting an skill.

4. Healing power to reduce incoming condition damage at 2% per 100 points.

 

 

 

[Sigmoid.7082]

> Conditions do less damage per stack on the target, otherwise called "diminish returns". Which means first stack will do full damage, but the 20th maybe will do much less. This would be applied for each condition type, being the less base damage it does the more stacks it can have. As an example: bleed would apply 2% less

 

Wont work. First off there are no diminishing returns on power damage so there shouldn't be on conditions. Secondly how would the game differentiate who is doing which condition? e.g. several bleeds by those not condi specced then bleed by those who are being significantly reduced. It doesn't sound fair. Other people doing damage to a target should at no point invalidate someone else's ability to do damage to a target.

 

 

[Strider Pj.2193]

> @Sigmoid.7082 said:

> > Conditions do less damage per stack on the target, otherwise called "diminish returns". Which means first stack will do full damage, but the 20th maybe will do much less. This would be applied for each condition type, being the less base damage it does the more stacks it can have. As an example: bleed would apply 2% less

>

> Wont work. First off there are no diminishing returns on power damage so there shouldn't be on conditions. Secondly how would the game differentiate who is doing which condition? e.g. several bleeds by those not condi specced then bleed by those who are being significantly reduced. It doesn't sound fair. Other people doing damage to a target should at no point invalidate someone else's ability to do damage to a target.

>

>

Which only impacts tagging for loot, not for kill credit. Short bow auto on condi thief, with one <400 dmg hit gives me kill credit.

 

[anduriell.6280]

> @Sigmoid.7082 said:

> > Conditions do less damage per stack on the target, otherwise called "diminish returns". Which means first stack will do full damage, but the 20th maybe will do much less. This would be applied for each condition type, being the less base damage it does the more stacks it can have. As an example: bleed would apply 2% less

>

> Wont work. First off there are no diminishing returns on power damage so there shouldn't be on conditions. Secondly how would the game differentiate who is doing which condition? e.g. several bleeds by those not condi specced then bleed by those who are being significantly reduced. It doesn't sound fair. Other people doing damage to a target should at no point invalidate someone else's ability to do damage to a target.

>

>

Actually the point is to do at least 1 damage per tick, which could be attributed to tag for loot. It is as simple as attribute full damage for tagging purpose (i think this is handled server side) meanwhile you get the 1 damage tick/stack.

 

Everybody wins here.

[XenesisII.1540]

> @Caedmon.6798 said:

> Pirateship has been around way before Hot. Players decide to play this way, **you cant blame anet on how people decide to form a meta**.

 

What? Anet created the classes and their roles, they created the elite specs, they are the ones that are laying down the foundations for the meta, players create metas through what is provided. Whatever changes they make affect it, like the stability change. Pirateship was created before HoT when they did the trait revamp because they nerfed stability from duration to stacks, which could then be ripped right off and melee would be cc'd into bombs.

 

Players are gravitating to condition builds because they are easier, they can hit just as harder if not harder than power while having the defense of a tank. It's a boon vs condition war and Anet just took it up to another step with more corruption and a massive boon strip ability.

 

It's always about going the most easy and efficient route for anything and anyone.

 

> @"Sethanon Stormrage.6721" said:

> Tbh most quit due to a lack of development of wvw. They got bored of fighting for no reward. Give them rewards and a platform for kitten and most would still be here.

 

A lot of players and guilds fought because combat was a joy, combat is the foundation of these games, it's the one thing you are constantly doing in the game, if it's frustrating and no fun players will either switch class to find a better fit or eventually just quit. We just had a boat load of rewards introduced into wvw where now we can even get up to legendary type gear, how many of those players you think returned, knowing that combat is still in a garbage state they left it from HoT? Lack of development sure as kitten drove off a lot of players, but many went off to other games to return later, many others stayed right up to HoT because gw2 _had_ one of the best combat systems in mmos.

 

[Sigmoid.7082]

> @anduriell.6280 said:

> > @Sigmoid.7082 said:

> > > Conditions do less damage per stack on the target, otherwise called "diminish returns". Which means first stack will do full damage, but the 20th maybe will do much less. This would be applied for each condition type, being the less base damage it does the more stacks it can have. As an example: bleed would apply 2% less

> >

> > Wont work. First off there are no diminishing returns on power damage so there shouldn't be on conditions. Secondly how would the game differentiate who is doing which condition? e.g. several bleeds by those not condi specced then bleed by those who are being significantly reduced. It doesn't sound fair. Other people doing damage to a target should at no point invalidate someone else's ability to do damage to a target.

> >

> >

> Actually the point is to do at least 1 damage per tick, which could be attributed to tag for loot. It is as simple as attribute full damage for tagging purpose (i think this is handled server side) meanwhile you get the 1 damage tick/stack.

>

> Everybody wins here.

 

The point I am making has nothing to do with tagging for loot/kill credit. Its about the actual damage being done. It doesn't make sense to effectively put a cap on exactly how much damage one person can take from anything regardless of the number of attackers. Again if person A is attacking a target it should have no impact on the damage that person B should be able to do. Regardless of damage type.

[stopa.9027]

so how many ppl crying here played condi engi, condi ranger or condi rev latly? and thought to themselfs...yea this class is op?

and then you look around and see noone playing them ...

or you just got owned by a better zerg and creat topics like this one

i admit necro and mesmer are a little to good, but thats class problrm not condition dmg.

the funniest thing is when i kill top tier class on my engi i get pm that im such a noob <3

[Jski.6180]

Condi dmg is way to fast in wvw your dieing in 2-3 ticks of the bomb and offten that is due to lag of wvw it self. There not enofe passive effects in gw2 that deals with that many condis and the best trick is to simply guess when condis are going to be applied. You need to nerf the speed of the tick or the dmg on the tick AND add in more means of passive clears such as passive barriers that only deal with condis.

[Aeolus.3615]

Or reduce de spamby limitiing wich class can use certain condis and make less condis stack on top of another ... port some condis to hexes with class limite as well, ill keep saying.

[Strages.2950]

> @kaleen.8204 said:

> With the amount of resistance in the game, theres literally no need to nerf condi. By the time pof gets lil bit older, theyre gonna nerf kitten. Theres literally no need to nerf condis. If your group kitten and cant support each other, or youre just playing glass cannon build with gear, dont expect to survive u dingdong.

> I also like how on these forums ppl judge each other by being on a so called blob server and not being on one. XD

> Most of you clearly doesnt understand how wvw works itself.

 

Boon stripping is constant now as well and resistance is THE FIRST thing to be stripped or converted (by design I might add).

 

Power has hard counters with blocks and blinds that a lot of classes can spam fairly constantly which completely deny power damage for X amount of time or number of attacks attacks and cannot be countered normally (yes a few skills and utilities have unblockables, but they are few and far between). Power attacks are also vulnerable to weakness, chopping damage in half and denying crits.

 

Condi has only resistance as a full denial, which is usually a utility or skill on high cooldowns, and is a boon that is stripped before any other. Weakness also doesn't apply to condi damage.

 

Condi cleansing suffers due to how massively and frequently condi stacks. On demand cleanses are expensive utilities and skills due to their cool downs and passive cleansing drowns with the reapplication ability of most condi classes.

 

Now, solutions? This is just me spit balling: apply the same restrictions and requirements to condi as power has.

 

Tweak condi damage to allow it to properly scale with precision/ferocity and lower the stacks that can be applied on players. This will force condi users to sacrifice tankiness if they want burst (just like power players), instead of just racking up stacks and stacks of condis. This should inherently solve the condi re-application (and thus the condi cleanse problem) since burst condi users will have a lower ceiling of stacks to strive for, and would instead focus on making each of those stacks as vicious as possible through timing (Hello? Actual Gameplay!?).

 

Allow for weakness to apply to condi damage, just like it does to power, and keep it stacking duration.

 

I'm on the fence on whether or not toughness should mitigate condi damage, it really depends on how the balance for condi damage and its (reduced) stacks goes. If having 5 stacks of burning is gonna be the same as having 15 stacks currently, then maybe we should allow toughness to play a role in condi mitigation, just because applying and maintaining 5 stacks is easier than applying and maintaining 15.

[Sigmoid.7082]

> Boon stripping is constant now as well and resistance is THE FIRST thing to be stripped or converted (by design I might add).

Some skills have priority to what is removed first, i.e bountiful theft, but by and large it follows the same LIFO as condition removal. Also all conversion, boon to condi and condi to boon, is completely random.

 

>Power has hard counters with blocks and blinds ...Condi has only resistance as a full denial

I keep forgetting how any skill that applies conditions is immune to blinds and blocks.

[SilentKill.9586]

> @Strages.2950 said:

> > @kaleen.8204 said:

> > With the amount of resistance in the game, theres literally no need to nerf condi. By the time pof gets lil bit older, theyre gonna nerf kitten. Theres literally no need to nerf condis. If your group kitten and cant support each other, or youre just playing glass cannon build with gear, dont expect to survive u dingdong.

> > I also like how on these forums ppl judge each other by being on a so called blob server and not being on one. XD

> > Most of you clearly doesnt understand how wvw works itself.

>

**"So Do not Listen to the person above. Obviously not a real wvw player.

But do listen to this guy below. What he is saying actually makes alot of sense in wvw."**

 

> Boon stripping is constant now as well and resistance is THE FIRST thing to be stripped or converted (by design I might add).

>

> Power has hard counters with blocks and blinds that a lot of classes can spam fairly constantly which completely deny power damage for X amount of time or number of attacks attacks and cannot be countered normally (yes a few skills and utilities have unblockables, but they are few and far between). Power attacks are also vulnerable to weakness, chopping damage in half and denying crits.

>

> Condi has only resistance as a full denial, which is usually a utility or skill on high cooldowns, and is a boon that is stripped before any other. Weakness also doesn't apply to condi damage.

>

> Condi cleansing suffers due to how massively and frequently condi stacks. On demand cleanses are expensive utilities and skills due to their cool downs and passive cleansing drowns with the reapplication ability of most condi classes.

>

> Now, solutions? This is just me spit balling: apply the same restrictions and requirements to condi as power has.

>

> Tweak condi damage to allow it to properly scale with precision/ferocity and lower the stacks that can be applied on players. This will force condi users to sacrifice tankiness if they want burst (just like power players), instead of just racking up stacks and stacks of condis. This should inherently solve the condi re-application (and thus the condi cleanse problem) since burst condi users will have a lower ceiling of stacks to strive for, and would instead focus on making each of those stacks as vicious as possible through timing (Hello? Actual Gameplay!?).

>

> Allow for weakness to apply to condi damage, just like it does to power, and keep it stacking duration.

>

> I'm on the fence on whether or not toughness should mitigate condi damage, it really depends on how the balance for condi damage and its (reduced) stacks goes. If having 5 stacks of burning is gonna be the same as having 15 stacks currently, then maybe we should allow toughness to play a role in condi mitigation, just because applying and maintaining 5 stacks is easier than applying and maintaining 15.

 

 

[Aeolus.3615]

> @Strages.2950 said:

> > @kaleen.8204 said:

>(snip)

> Allow for weakness to apply to condi damage, just like it does to power, and keep it stacking duration.

>

> I'm on the fence on whether or not toughness should mitigate condi damage, it really depends on how the balance for condi damage and its (reduced) stacks goes. If having 5 stacks of burning is gonna be the same as having 15 stacks currently, then maybe we should allow toughness to play a role in condi mitigation, just because applying and maintaining 5 stacks is easier than applying and maintaining 15.

 

 

That would increase damage and maybe by alot, on reality due how easy it is to achieve those stacks, and we know ANet would prefer to make players be carried with damage output VS defense (cause makign classes easy on offensive is what make people keep playing, players nowadays hate challanges, Anet needs this cause game dont offer much more, but that is another problem)

 

Still that would make alot of sever background calculations to calutate the damage of condis, and some classes armor isnt a fixed value, it keeps changin within combat addin the armor buffs from allies more differnt values would make more server loads and bigger (i dont want to play a game with those problems and this game already has some issues....some a bit severe but rare to happen)

Imo Anet has jumped into a pond w/o water but mud wich is hard now to get out of it, they need to make the game simplier, less server side calcs, and simplier means more balanced and clean to manke changes...

 

Wonder wath the next classes elites will offer maybe we will see some class that can spam all condis in the game and other that can spam all boons loool or several classes... to make people want to buy the expansion.

[Strages.2950]

@"SilentKill.9586"

 

With the quotes and the bold, I don't know if you're mocking me or supporting what I think. :#

[Strages.2950]

> @Sigmoid.7082 said:

>

> >Power has hard counters with blocks and blinds ...Condi has only resistance as a full denial

> I keep forgetting how any skill that applies conditions is immune to blinds and blocks.

 

You can't block or blind conditions that have already been applied, I should have been clearer. ALSO for instance shout necros use the aoe shout that makes your skills unblock able and then dish out their condi un burst.

 

[Turk.5460]

> @Sigmoid.7082 said:

> > Conditions do less damage per stack on the target, otherwise called "diminish returns". Which means first stack will do full damage, but the 20th maybe will do much less. This would be applied for each condition type, being the less base damage it does the more stacks it can have. As an example: bleed would apply 2% less

>

> Wont work. First off there are no diminishing returns on power damage so there shouldn't be on conditions.

>

>

 

If you are going to say something like that, what are your thoughts on Condition damage only needing 1 stat to be effective, although power damage requires 3?

[Sigmoid.7082]

> @Strages.2950 said:

> > @Sigmoid.7082 said:

> >

> > >Power has hard counters with blocks and blinds ...Condi has only resistance as a full denial

> > I keep forgetting how any skill that applies conditions is immune to blinds and blocks.

>

> You can't block or blind conditions that have already been applied, I should have been clearer. ALSO for instance shout necros use the aoe shout that makes your skills unblock able and then dish out their condi un burst.

>

 

Just like you cant block or blind power damage you have already been hit by.

Also for instance the exact same skill, as well as skills like it, can be used to make power attacks/burst unblockable. Its not really a point since it goes both ways.

[atheria.2837]

> @kathy.8291 said:

> When you thought Condi was the meta before the expansion, it seems the only thing to play is CONDI CONDI CONDI. No more skills or power just have a guild full of condi and your dead .

 

We're not being listened to; many of the forum post names are proving that. :(

 

WvW is dozens of players with ever increasingly large circles one can't dodge, break stun from or move out of even if one does manage a stun break or other condi removal.

 

**Condi is included in squads before power is.**

 

Condition is really a great thing in moderation, but when you have 30-50 with 'more condi' than your smaller force, condi wins every single time. That's not a competition, that's just mobs without any reason or precision - you know, that one thing that was nerfed to the ground in the last round of food and skill nerfs. Without the need to be 'precise' slapping a large circle on the ground and moving away is just about as kitten as any possible scenario in WvW gets.

 

Without reasonable mitigation **_possible_**, WvW is a nightmare for any who aren't running in groups, large ones.

 

 

 

 

[atheria.2837]

> @kathy.8291 said:

> Lets just hope Anet reads this and the poll and something can be done before people stop playing in WvW.

>

 

Get more people in here... we need a lot of WvW'ers weighing in here.

[illenos.5134]

We are at a point where you don't even consider to play power builds anymore. All we need is more boon corrupt condi builds. Why should anyone bother to cc the enemy zerg and bomb them when you can spam all your buttons on necro and win. I'm a necro player...and I'm not proud about this fact.

[atheria.2837]

> @GDchiaScrub.3241 said:

> > @kathy.8291 said:

> > I love how 23 people voted to keep it the way it is. They are probably on a BLOb server that all they use is condi LOL

>

> I voted to keep it for the lewls. <3

 

It's not funny, it's hurting a very special mode, so why are you laughing at a serious issue?

[casantis.3106]

I hope they look the wvw forum and consider the nerf. At least separate the cap from pve.

[illenos.5134]

They should also think about making resistance a special buff like alacrity. It could be a useful buff to counter the pure condi meta, but right now it just gets corrupted in the same second as it gets applied.

[Babytater.6803]

@"Turk.5460" and @"primatos.5413" I know condi's can hurt a lot of you just get a bunch dumped on you, but with the right builds and play styles , you can ignore condi's . I'm not saying that conditions can't be overpowered. Sure, if you have a zerg of 30 people running condi, you will get slammed with condi's and die. But that will also happen if you have a zerg of 30 people running power and full boons. There are multiple ways to play WvW.