An Eye on the Deadeye

[Cameryn.5310]

ArenaNet, there are a lot of thief players like myself who love playing a dual-pistol Deadeye. In fact, I run into more and more all the time... the thieves who have realized that while the rifle is slow and clunky, a good P/P deadeye with health-regenerating food and constant Might generation is amazing in PVE situations.

 

Please tell me that we aren't going to lose that and be forced to play Deadeye spec with rifles. Please. I don't want to go back to that. In PVE, I *never* do more damage with the rifle than the pistol, because circumstances where I can safely kneel and hit things with my rifle are few and far between, but with dual pistols I'm hitting things every second.

[Curennos.9307]

Based on 'The Perfect Shot', I assume you mean that when a rifle thief is stealthed, their 1/AA will now turn to Death's Judgement? Just looking for some clarity :)

 

What about the non-kneel version of Death's Judgement, Death's Retreat? It was an -extremely- valuable movement skill that allowed thieves mobility without being chained in extremely intimate, explicit ways to Shortbow just because of SB#5. I assume (again, correct if wrong) that Death's Retreat remains Rifle#4's standing skill, and we're getting a new defensive skill on Kneeling Rifle#4 now that Death's Retreat is out stealth attack and attached to the AA while stealthed?

 

How do you anticipate these changes will effect PvE Deadeyes, now that (say) getting an absolutely massive backstab from dagger seems to be a real nice possibility? Are we (Finally? *excited, hopeful screeee*) expected to, in a PvE scenario where DPS is important, to AA/low init cost dmging attack to build up Malice, then stealth to malice dump for a major, DPS-boosting attack? I'm a little concerned as to how this is going to work for PvE, since across...pretty much all weapons, PvE AAs tend to be the best DPS option. I'm not too fond of just HS spamming on dagger to build up Malice, since doing so will be a horrible DPS loss compared to AAs (for the first 50% of enemy hp anyway).

 

What about non-rifle setups that don't have consistent access to stealth, such as uh...anything that doesn't use pistol as an offhand and have a leap finisher, I believe. D/P has excellent access to stealth when you need it and I'm looking forward to trying to 1-shot people with Black Powder -> HS -> Shadow shot into backstab, but the other weapons are a bit more brawly and have to sacrifice either traitlines, utility skills, or other things to get even a little bit of stealth. With the new focus on dumping malice with a stealth attack, I'm worried that weapons other than D/P and rifle will be left in the dust if they want to use DE.

 

Can you share anything specific on your changes to Perfectionist? Since Malice is going to be stacking MUCH faster, dumped and then swiftly regenned again with these changes, I'm curious as to what you guys have done to/it.

 

And lastly...THANK YOU. This looks like it'll solve the issues with DE's in WvW waiting in stealth for Malice stacks to try and then nail their target with a DJ, then repeat with little room for counterattack. Bless.

 

In short, anything else you're willing to share? Because the wait is already HNNNNG.

 

Can we get an instant cast Mark please? Even if it's only in PvE (though having it in PvP would be nice too). Pretty please.

 

Looking forward to building max malice on D/P, then using Black Powder -> Wpn swap into standing rifle 4 for stealth, then kneeling for a DJ :D

 

[Comprissent.3856]

So +180 Concentration and then deadeye gives no unique boons that chrono doesn't, so you need a chrono to give you boons to make this trait effective, but then you have no reason to have that concentration cuz chrono is just doing it all???? This is almost even worse

[MithranArkanere.8957]

Now this is much better.

 

Buildup should be that. Buildup. Ready the attack, then unleash a massive hit.

The current iteration of Malice is just boring, flat, passive extra damage. Wait out, then spam while it's up.

 

While I'm sure that some weapon skills may eventually get charges, before we can know which ones will really need them, this had to be done first.

 

Hopefully this will encourage more use of stealth attacks and more focus on using them skillfully to get the upper hand after softening targets over repetitive gameplay.

[Will.9785]

> @"Comprissent.3856" said:

> So +180 Concentration and then deadeye gives no unique boons that chrono doesn't, so you need a chrono to give you boons to make this trait effective, but then you have no reason to have that concentration cuz chrono is just doing it all???? This is almost even worse

 

You aren't wrong. The boon duration is completely wasted in a group situation and next-to-worthless solo (12% is basically nothing).

[Robert Gee.9246]

Hey everyone, I know this is all a lot to take in so I wanted to clarify a few of the questions I saw pop up in this thread.

> @"Highlie.7641" said:

> 180 con per boon. that could be a bit extreme. guess we will see though

The concentration bonus is flat and does not scale with number of boons.

 

> @"Gambit.9501" said:

> So if Death's Judgment is gonna become the new Rifle stealth attack, what will become of Cursed Bullet? I really like that boon-strip that CB has/it's also helpful in PoF open-world when bursting down Awakened in the new maps (getting rid of their Protection is super useful). Will Death's Judgment retain that functionality as the new Rifle stealth attack?

Cursed Bullet is being removed. Its boon removal functionality will be moved to one of the utility skills.

 

> @"MUDse.7623" said:

> i could see alot of problems with the malice change if the traits would remain the same, but as we dont know what they will be like..

> now will we lose our malice if the stealth attack does not hit, like a warrior missing his burst skills? adrenaline will still be faster build up than malice tho.

Malice is only lost if you hit your mark.

 

> @"Cameryn.5310" said:

> Please tell me that we aren't going to lose that and be forced to play Deadeye spec with rifles. Please. I don't want to go back to that. In PVE, I *never* do more damage with the rifle than the pistol, because circumstances where I can safely kneel and hit things with my rifle are few and far between, but with dual pistols I'm hitting things every second.

While I can't speak to your exact build, I personally find P/P Deadeye to be just as good or better with these changes.

 

> @"Curennos.9307" said:

> Based on 'The Perfect Shot', I assume you mean that when a rifle thief is stealthed, their 1/AA will now turn to Death's Judgement? Just looking for some clarity :)

Yes. Stealthing flips over the AA to Death's Judgement.

 

> What about the non-kneel version of Death's Judgement, Death's Retreat?

Death's Retreat is still the Rifle standing skill #4.

[Ohoni.6057]

Has Kneel been changed to make it more comfortable to stand up yet? I just couldn't get into the idea of having to press a specific button to be able to move, in a game that's very motion-heavy. That's the main thing that keeps me from playing a rifle Deadeye, and without playing a rifle Deadeye, I still don't see a reason to not play a Daredevil, who is WAY more mobile and has a staff.

[MUDse.7623]

> @"Robert Gee.9246" said:

> > @"Gambit.9501" said:

> > So if Death's Judgment is gonna become the new Rifle stealth attack, what will become of Cursed Bullet? I really like that boon-strip that CB has/it's also helpful in PoF open-world when bursting down Awakened in the new maps (getting rid of their Protection is super useful). Will Death's Judgment retain that functionality as the new Rifle stealth attack?

> Cursed Bullet is being removed. Its boon removal functionality will be moved to one of the utility skills.

 

sad to hear that, i loved cursed bullet not just for the boonrip but especially for being unblockable. thief has aside from BV no access to unblockables and that is on 32-40s cd + only 1 hit, so with all the projectile hate and blocks around it was good that at least cursed bullet would deal decent damage.

rangers got in one elite spec an alternative range weapon that is not projectile based and in the other a rather low cool down 4sec unblockable buff, while we got a range weapon with no option to get through all the projectile hate. fighting a mesmer with mirror spamm from trait will be alot of fun with a rifle now without cursed bullet i assume.

a soulbeast like 4 sec unblockable would be nice on mark or even better with perfectionist if we still got that trait.

[Palador.2170]

These changes make me uneasy. They don't sound... fun to me.

 

Maybe I'm wrong. I'll have to wait and see.

[Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497]

> @"Robert Gee.9246" said:

> Hey everyone, I know this is all a lot to take in so I wanted to clarify a few of the questions I saw pop up in this thread.

> > @"Highlie.7641" said:

> > 180 con per boon. that could be a bit extreme. guess we will see though

> The concentration bonus is flat and does not scale with number of boons.

>

> > @"Gambit.9501" said:

> > So if Death's Judgment is gonna become the new Rifle stealth attack, what will become of Cursed Bullet? I really like that boon-strip that CB has/it's also helpful in PoF open-world when bursting down Awakened in the new maps (getting rid of their Protection is super useful). Will Death's Judgment retain that functionality as the new Rifle stealth attack?

> Cursed Bullet is being removed. Its boon removal functionality will be moved to one of the utility skills.

>

> > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > i could see alot of problems with the malice change if the traits would remain the same, but as we dont know what they will be like..

> > now will we lose our malice if the stealth attack does not hit, like a warrior missing his burst skills? adrenaline will still be faster build up than malice tho.

> Malice is only lost if you hit your mark.

>

> > @"Cameryn.5310" said:

> > Please tell me that we aren't going to lose that and be forced to play Deadeye spec with rifles. Please. I don't want to go back to that. In PVE, I *never* do more damage with the rifle than the pistol, because circumstances where I can safely kneel and hit things with my rifle are few and far between, but with dual pistols I'm hitting things every second.

> While I can't speak to your exact build, I personally find P/P Deadeye to be just as good or better with these changes.

>

> > @"Curennos.9307" said:

> > Based on 'The Perfect Shot', I assume you mean that when a rifle thief is stealthed, their 1/AA will now turn to Death's Judgement? Just looking for some clarity :)

> Yes. Stealthing flips over the AA to Death's Judgement.

>

> > What about the non-kneel version of Death's Judgement, Death's Retreat?

> Death's Retreat is still the Rifle standing skill #4.

 

Will the 1 second cool down on stealth attacks be removed?

[Fierlor.2697]

I really like how malice will stack now. Investing more into a stealth play style/theme sounds fun. Hope the DPS is there. Thieves should be one of the highest single target DPS classes in the game and sadly other classes get all that plus more while we are left in the dust. At least we have our mobility gents....they can't take that away from us.

 

I have a request for the devs, could you make kneel cancel on moving arrow keys? Would solve the fluidity issue without much change to mechanics. Feels super clunky right now.

[Turk.5460]

Please reconsider removing Cursed Bullet. It would be nice to have that remain as the standing version of Skill 1. Having an unblockable attack is very necessary right now in competitive modes, and that one in particular also required you to first gain stealth (therefore costing another skill or utility).

[kash.9213]

> @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > @"Robert Gee.9246" said:

> > > @"Gambit.9501" said:

> > > So if Death's Judgment is gonna become the new Rifle stealth attack, what will become of Cursed Bullet? I really like that boon-strip that CB has/it's also helpful in PoF open-world when bursting down Awakened in the new maps (getting rid of their Protection is super useful). Will Death's Judgment retain that functionality as the new Rifle stealth attack?

> > Cursed Bullet is being removed. Its boon removal functionality will be moved to one of the utility skills.

>

> sad to hear that, i loved cursed bullet not just for the boonrip but especially for being unblockable. thief has aside von BV no access to unblockables and that is on 32-40s cd + only 1 hit, so with all the projectile hate and blocks around it was good that at least cursed bullet would deal decent damage.

> rangers got in one elite spec an alternative range weapon that is not projectile based and in the other a rather low cool down 4sec unblockable buff, while we got a range weapon with no option to get through all the projectile hate. fighting a mesmer with mirror spamm from trait will be alot of fun with a rifle now without cursed bullet i assume.

>

 

Plus the way CB traveled was awesome and let me time a hit on both sides of someone and it was good for tagging runners trying to break line of sight. I hope the skills unassuming functionality carries on in some capacity.

[MUDse.7623]

> @"kash.9213" said:

> > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > @"Robert Gee.9246" said:

> > > > @"Gambit.9501" said:

> > > > So if Death's Judgment is gonna become the new Rifle stealth attack, what will become of Cursed Bullet? I really like that boon-strip that CB has/it's also helpful in PoF open-world when bursting down Awakened in the new maps (getting rid of their Protection is super useful). Will Death's Judgment retain that functionality as the new Rifle stealth attack?

> > > Cursed Bullet is being removed. Its boon removal functionality will be moved to one of the utility skills.

> >

> > sad to hear that, i loved cursed bullet not just for the boonrip but especially for being unblockable. thief has aside von BV no access to unblockables and that is on 32-40s cd + only 1 hit, so with all the projectile hate and blocks around it was good that at least cursed bullet would deal decent damage.

> > rangers got in one elite spec an alternative range weapon that is not projectile based and in the other a rather low cool down 4sec unblockable buff, while we got a range weapon with no option to get through all the projectile hate. fighting a mesmer with mirror spamm from trait will be alot of fun with a rifle now without cursed bullet i assume.

> >

>

> Plus the way CB traveled was awesome and let me time a hit on both sides of someone and it was good for tagging runners trying to break line of sight. I hope the skills unassuming functionality carries on in some capacity.

 

i had hoped we keep standing the CB. but standing DJ confirmed will be interesting..

[Warkind.6745]

> @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > @"Robert Gee.9246" said:

> > > @"Gambit.9501" said:

> > > So if Death's Judgment is gonna become the new Rifle stealth attack, what will become of Cursed Bullet? I really like that boon-strip that CB has/it's also helpful in PoF open-world when bursting down Awakened in the new maps (getting rid of their Protection is super useful). Will Death's Judgment retain that functionality as the new Rifle stealth attack?

> > Cursed Bullet is being removed. Its boon removal functionality will be moved to one of the utility skills.

>

> sad to hear that, i loved cursed bullet not just for the boonrip but especially for being unblockable. thief has aside from BV no access to unblockables and that is on 32-40s cd + only 1 hit, so with all the projectile hate and blocks around it was good that at least cursed bullet would deal decent damage.

> rangers got in one elite spec an alternative range weapon that is not projectile based and in the other a rather low cool down 4sec unblockable buff, while we got a range weapon with no option to get through all the projectile hate. fighting a mesmer with mirror spamm from trait will be alot of fun with a rifle now without cursed bullet i assume.

> a soulbeast like 4 sec unblockable would be nice on mark or even better with perfectionist if we still got that trait.

 

Sword/Dagger!

[MUDse.7623]

> @"Warkind.6745" said:

> > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > @"Robert Gee.9246" said:

> > > > @"Gambit.9501" said:

> > > > So if Death's Judgment is gonna become the new Rifle stealth attack, what will become of Cursed Bullet? I really like that boon-strip that CB has/it's also helpful in PoF open-world when bursting down Awakened in the new maps (getting rid of their Protection is super useful). Will Death's Judgment retain that functionality as the new Rifle stealth attack?

> > > Cursed Bullet is being removed. Its boon removal functionality will be moved to one of the utility skills.

> >

> > sad to hear that, i loved cursed bullet not just for the boonrip but especially for being unblockable. thief has aside from BV no access to unblockables and that is on 32-40s cd + only 1 hit, so with all the projectile hate and blocks around it was good that at least cursed bullet would deal decent damage.

> > rangers got in one elite spec an alternative range weapon that is not projectile based and in the other a rather low cool down 4sec unblockable buff, while we got a range weapon with no option to get through all the projectile hate. fighting a mesmer with mirror spamm from trait will be alot of fun with a rifle now without cursed bullet i assume.

> > a soulbeast like 4 sec unblockable would be nice on mark or even better with perfectionist if we still got that trait.

>

> Sword/Dagger!

 

why would i use sword dagger? if i want to melee i rather backstab oneshot them. i guess by the complaints in the forums about p/p thieves there is not much projectile hate in sPvP currently for some reason but in WvW, in group fights you pretty much cant bring any projectile based range weapon if you dont have an unblockable buff or like the current DE a cursed bullet able to hit 10k+ unblockable.

[Turk.5460]

> @"Warkind.6745" said:

> > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > @"Robert Gee.9246" said:

> > > > @"Gambit.9501" said:

> > > > So if Death's Judgment is gonna become the new Rifle stealth attack, what will become of Cursed Bullet? I really like that boon-strip that CB has/it's also helpful in PoF open-world when bursting down Awakened in the new maps (getting rid of their Protection is super useful). Will Death's Judgment retain that functionality as the new Rifle stealth attack?

> > > Cursed Bullet is being removed. Its boon removal functionality will be moved to one of the utility skills.

> >

> > sad to hear that, i loved cursed bullet not just for the boonrip but especially for being unblockable. thief has aside from BV no access to unblockables and that is on 32-40s cd + only 1 hit, so with all the projectile hate and blocks around it was good that at least cursed bullet would deal decent damage.

> > rangers got in one elite spec an alternative range weapon that is not projectile based and in the other a rather low cool down 4sec unblockable buff, while we got a range weapon with no option to get through all the projectile hate. fighting a mesmer with mirror spamm from trait will be alot of fun with a rifle now without cursed bullet i assume.

> > a soulbeast like 4 sec unblockable would be nice on mark or even better with perfectionist if we still got that trait.

>

> Sword/Dagger!

 

I think he is specifically referring to a ranged unblockable. And CB certainly isn't spammable - it is slow and requires 2 separate abilities each use (unless stealthed by another player).

[Cameryn.5310]

> @"Robert Gee.9246" said:

> > @"Cameryn.5310" said:

> > Please tell me that we aren't going to lose that and be forced to play Deadeye spec with rifles. Please. I don't want to go back to that. In PVE, I *never* do more damage with the rifle than the pistol, because circumstances where I can safely kneel and hit things with my rifle are few and far between, but with dual pistols I'm hitting things every second.

> While I can't speak to your exact build, I personally find P/P Deadeye to be just as good or better with these changes.

 

That makes me VERY happy, thank you. Honestly, I love playing a P/P Deadeye, it's probably my favorite PVE fun in the entire game... the ranged deadeye steal, the constant unload, the Might stacks... it's all very rewarding. (I do wish there was an AoE attack, but things die so quickly anyway and health regen is so good that I can usually take on a pack of 4-5 mobs and kill them one by one without breaking a sweat. Though I wasn't around for Ricochet, so I am not missing something that other players miss.)

[Warkind.6745]

> @"Turk.5460" said:

> > @"Warkind.6745" said:

> > > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > > @"Robert Gee.9246" said:

> > > > > @"Gambit.9501" said:

> > > > > So if Death's Judgment is gonna become the new Rifle stealth attack, what will become of Cursed Bullet? I really like that boon-strip that CB has/it's also helpful in PoF open-world when bursting down Awakened in the new maps (getting rid of their Protection is super useful). Will Death's Judgment retain that functionality as the new Rifle stealth attack?

> > > > Cursed Bullet is being removed. Its boon removal functionality will be moved to one of the utility skills.

> > >

> > > sad to hear that, i loved cursed bullet not just for the boonrip but especially for being unblockable. thief has aside from BV no access to unblockables and that is on 32-40s cd + only 1 hit, so with all the projectile hate and blocks around it was good that at least cursed bullet would deal decent damage.

> > > rangers got in one elite spec an alternative range weapon that is not projectile based and in the other a rather low cool down 4sec unblockable buff, while we got a range weapon with no option to get through all the projectile hate. fighting a mesmer with mirror spamm from trait will be alot of fun with a rifle now without cursed bullet i assume.

> > > a soulbeast like 4 sec unblockable would be nice on mark or even better with perfectionist if we still got that trait.

> >

> > Sword/Dagger!

>

> I think he is specifically referring to a ranged unblockable. And CB certainly isn't spammable - it is slow and requires 2 separate abilities each use (unless stealthed by another player).

 

Hopefully CB's unblockable gets put on a utility skill like its boonsteal in that case.

[Cameryn.5310]

> @"Ohoni.6057" said:

> Has Kneel been changed to make it more comfortable to stand up yet? I just couldn't get into the idea of having to press a specific button to be able to move, in a game that's very motion-heavy. That's the main thing that keeps me from playing a rifle Deadeye, and without playing a rifle Deadeye, I still don't see a reason to not play a Daredevil, who is WAY more mobile and has a staff.

 

@Robert.Gee.9246 this is actually one thing I *would* suggest you guys look at. Getting out of kneel stance would be a lot more appealing if it was easier. In fact, it would be amazing if hitting your weapon swap (which is something most of us use muscle memory for) broke you out of kneel stance... Hit once to stand up, hit again to swap weapons. Easy peasy.

[Vegeta.2563]

"Be Quick or Be Killed"

 

Please still have quickness :s

[Evil Crimson Soul.5784]

To be fair I've always played as a thief and I always wanted more out of dead eye, I think this is the push I need to move from daredevil to dead eye now, good update guys!!!:D

[Doctor Hide.6345]

I am honestly not sure how I feel about these changes. Will it be better dps in PvE environments? I am also not liking the removal of CB because there is already enough ranged hate in the game, so removing CB would make us even more gimper than we already are when it comes to ranged hate.

[Vulcaruss.9567]

Sorry but the fact that Death Judgement is being moved to the Auto Attack Stealth slot makes this horrible. What should be done is Deaths Judgement should be left alone in the #4 slot but make a special version that changes when in stealth for the #4 slot and leave Cursed bullet alone. The On Stealth factor is garbage simply cause there are only a handful of ways a Thief Can stealth from Utility slots, healing skills, and traits. Unless you plan to give them a more consistent and fluid way to stealth while wielding a rifle or do you suggest we run D/P use #5 then #2 to leap into stealth swap weapons kneel and fire? talk about literally leaping through hoops. This is only going to be doing less DPS than before, not to mention the Auto Attack skills is such a fire and forget skill putting Deaths Judgement on that hinders it's Importance.

[saerni.2584]

Looks good. I like moving malice to stealth attacks to emphasize each attack holistically rather than being just a flat damage bonus that impacts only a few skills directly on the rifle.

 

My main questions revolve around the new traits. Without more than “improved synergy” I’m not sure what to expect.

 

I guess if I had one question it would be how quickly this new malice will build up given that high initiative skills are maxed out at two malice each regardless. I do like the move to make crit chance important but I worry about the generation rate as a practical concern.