An Eye on the Deadeye

[Ryans.9571]

Just gonna add my voice in here, I think the changes for non rifle deadeye are super interesting but as a PvE Rifle Deadeye I know feel like I have no purpose. We already had to struggle to prove ourselves but now it is almost impossible to come close to keeping up damage wise. Please find some sort of middle ground that gets rifle back to the way it was while keeping up the support for non rifle Deadeyes. Right now though, I have lost a lot of my drive to play, I am sure in a week or two I will be back but not on my Thief, not unless Rifle gets fixed.

[Cameryn.5310]

> @"Astyrah.4015" said:

>

> P/P BeQuick Deadeye is fun to play in open world PvE (anything sub-veteran rank will usually melt really fast by just opening with DE mark then spamming unload) but suffers from lack of good sustainable DPS on boss fights with high HP pools (basically your opening burst is really good and that's most of where your damage comes from and then you start losing steam on prolonged fights if it drags too long) and you pretty much have no spammable AOE if you don't have a shortbow/dagger+dagger/sword for a swap set, but it is definitely usable. for PvP i think the go-to now after the changes is D/P or D/D but i will leave other people to inform you about the PvP things

 

This is all true.

 

As a P/P PvE deadeye, MY complaint that I shared earlier in this thread is that we really no longer use Malice in any capacity... there are no weapon skills that grant stealth, and only two cantrips that are pretty much substandard. So all the Malice changes have made that mechanic utterly useless.... but the deadeye trait line is still vital (considering that it changes steals to ranged).

 

[Aistos.5174]

> @"Ryans.9571" said:

> Just gonna add my voice in here, I think the changes for non rifle deadeye are super interesting but as a PvE Rifle Deadeye I know feel like I have no purpose. We already had to struggle to prove ourselves but now it is almost impossible to come close to keeping up damage wise. Please find some sort of middle ground that gets rifle back to the way it was while keeping up the support for non rifle Deadeyes. Right now though, I have lost a lot of my drive to play, I am sure in a week or two I will be back but not on my Thief, not unless Rifle gets fixed.

 

I'm with you, why don't give some changes (in particular malice) a chance. You have to try new things to get a chance of improving the game. But what I personally still don't understand at all are the changes to the rifle skills: If all the rifle skills would be reset (DJ back at #4, cursed bullet back at stealth-1, snipers cover grants stealth etc.) then why not give the new malice system a try.

But right now it just feels like the changes only make your life as a rifle-DE much harder without any reason. The whole rifle-system of DE seems screwed up, mainly because of the weird rifle-skill arrangement (necessary evade for stealth, worthless smoke wall, DJ not at #4 and the absence of cursed bullet - why do we need these obstacles?).

[bearshaman.3421]

So I played around some with this, and honestly, I would like to see how these changes work, when the actual coding behind it isn't broken. I don't know, maybe I'm doing it wrong, but I used rifle on a target in the pvp lobby, and after using DE Mark, no hits gave me malice. NONE. No crits either. My mate used the Fire for Effect trait, and saw no might being given. I am starting to think the actual coding for DE is full of actual bugs, and that's why the damage is so bad...

 

It might still be bad, but can people make sure they report any actual bugs in the game's bug report tool? Cuz I think that's a large part of the problem...

[Specialka.7290]

> @"Aistos.5174" said:

> > @"Ryans.9571" said:

> > Just gonna add my voice in here, I think the changes for non rifle deadeye are super interesting but as a PvE Rifle Deadeye I know feel like I have no purpose. We already had to struggle to prove ourselves but now it is almost impossible to come close to keeping up damage wise. Please find some sort of middle ground that gets rifle back to the way it was while keeping up the support for non rifle Deadeyes. Right now though, I have lost a lot of my drive to play, I am sure in a week or two I will be back but not on my Thief, not unless Rifle gets fixed.

>

> I'm with you, why don't give some changes (in particular malice) a chance. You have to try new things to get a chance of improving the game. But what I personally still don't understand at all are the changes to the rifle skills: If all the rifle skills would be reset (DJ back at #4, cursed bullet back at stealth-1, snipers cover grants stealth etc.) then why not try out a new malice system.

> But right now it just feels like the changes only make your life as a rifle-DE much harder without any reason. The whole rifle-system of DE seems screwed up, mainly because of the weird rifle-skill arrangement (necessary evade for stealth, worthless smoke wall, DJ not at #4 and the absence of cursed bullet - why do we need this obstacles?).

 

If you have any other mmo, De Rifle is easy to play (like most class in gw2). the only current real issue is that you can lost your stealth after a roll if you have a shot en route to your target at that moment, but that will be fixed hopefully.

[Astyrah.4015]

> @"Specialka.7290" said:

> > @"Aistos.5174" said:

> > > @"Ryans.9571" said:

> > > Just gonna add my voice in here, I think the changes for non rifle deadeye are super interesting but as a PvE Rifle Deadeye I know feel like I have no purpose. We already had to struggle to prove ourselves but now it is almost impossible to come close to keeping up damage wise. Please find some sort of middle ground that gets rifle back to the way it was while keeping up the support for non rifle Deadeyes. Right now though, I have lost a lot of my drive to play, I am sure in a week or two I will be back but not on my Thief, not unless Rifle gets fixed.

> >

> > I'm with you, why don't give some changes (in particular malice) a chance. You have to try new things to get a chance of improving the game. But what I personally still don't understand at all are the changes to the rifle skills: If all the rifle skills would be reset (DJ back at #4, cursed bullet back at stealth-1, snipers cover grants stealth etc.) then why not try out a new malice system.

> > But right now it just feels like the changes only make your life as a rifle-DE much harder without any reason. The whole rifle-system of DE seems screwed up, mainly because of the weird rifle-skill arrangement (necessary evade for stealth, worthless smoke wall, DJ not at #4 and the absence of cursed bullet - why do we need this obstacles?).

>

> If you have any other mmo, De Rifle is easy to play (like most class in gw2). the only current real issue is that you can lost your stealth after a roll if you have a shot en route to your target at that moment, but that will be fixed hopefully.

 

yeah to be honest, i don't like the changes but if they make it so you won't lose stealth on a silentscope-roll regardless of whatever is happening just to make prepping a DJ 100% reliable i can live with the reworked rifle DE, adjust properly and stay salty.

 

oh, and while they're at it maybe they can rework malice gain a little bit like make it so you also gain some malice if you hit something blocking your target.

 

i just need just either or both of these things and i will be happier but still salty :D

[Aistos.5174]

> @"Specialka.7290" said:

> > @"Aistos.5174" said:

> > > @"Ryans.9571" said:

> > > Just gonna add my voice in here, I think the changes for non rifle deadeye are super interesting but as a PvE Rifle Deadeye I know feel like I have no purpose. We already had to struggle to prove ourselves but now it is almost impossible to come close to keeping up damage wise. Please find some sort of middle ground that gets rifle back to the way it was while keeping up the support for non rifle Deadeyes. Right now though, I have lost a lot of my drive to play, I am sure in a week or two I will be back but not on my Thief, not unless Rifle gets fixed.

> >

> > I'm with you, why don't give some changes (in particular malice) a chance. You have to try new things to get a chance of improving the game. But what I personally still don't understand at all are the changes to the rifle skills: If all the rifle skills would be reset (DJ back at #4, cursed bullet back at stealth-1, snipers cover grants stealth etc.) then why not try out a new malice system.

> > But right now it just feels like the changes only make your life as a rifle-DE much harder without any reason. The whole rifle-system of DE seems screwed up, mainly because of the weird rifle-skill arrangement (necessary evade for stealth, worthless smoke wall, DJ not at #4 and the absence of cursed bullet - why do we need this obstacles?).

>

> If you have any other mmo, De Rifle is easy to play (like most class in gw2). the only current real issue is that you can lost your stealth after a roll if you have a shot en route to your target at that moment, but that will be fixed hopefully.

 

I don't think "easy" and "difficult" to play are the right words to describe the problem here. It just doesn't feel right how the rifle skills are arranged now, especially if you consider that all these changes were made for this useless smoke wall. I just wanna say I can't see any reasons for the rifle-skill (<> not malice, give it a try) changes at all - for me this arrangement takes so much fun out of the DE that I don't play it for the moment. And that's a pity because that was by far my favourite class.

[kash.9213]

> @"Astyrah.4015" said:

> > @"Specialka.7290" said:

> > > @"Aistos.5174" said:

> > > > @"Ryans.9571" said:

> > > > Just gonna add my voice in here, I think the changes for non rifle deadeye are super interesting but as a PvE Rifle Deadeye I know feel like I have no purpose. We already had to struggle to prove ourselves but now it is almost impossible to come close to keeping up damage wise. Please find some sort of middle ground that gets rifle back to the way it was while keeping up the support for non rifle Deadeyes. Right now though, I have lost a lot of my drive to play, I am sure in a week or two I will be back but not on my Thief, not unless Rifle gets fixed.

> > >

> > > I'm with you, why don't give some changes (in particular malice) a chance. You have to try new things to get a chance of improving the game. But what I personally still don't understand at all are the changes to the rifle skills: If all the rifle skills would be reset (DJ back at #4, cursed bullet back at stealth-1, snipers cover grants stealth etc.) then why not try out a new malice system.

> > > But right now it just feels like the changes only make your life as a rifle-DE much harder without any reason. The whole rifle-system of DE seems screwed up, mainly because of the weird rifle-skill arrangement (necessary evade for stealth, worthless smoke wall, DJ not at #4 and the absence of cursed bullet - why do we need this obstacles?).

> >

> > If you have any other mmo, De Rifle is easy to play (like most class in gw2). the only current real issue is that you can lost your stealth after a roll if you have a shot en route to your target at that moment, but that will be fixed hopefully.

>

> yeah to be honest, i don't like the changes but if they make it so you won't lose stealth on a silentscope-roll regardless of whatever is happening just to make prepping a DJ 100% reliable i can live with the reworked rifle DE, adjust properly and stay salty.

>

> oh, and while they're at it maybe they can rework malice gain a little bit like make it **so you also gain some malice if you hit something blocking your target.**

>

> i just need just either or both of these things and i will be happier but still salty :D

 

Pretty sure that wont happen since it allows stuff to happen off of Marked target.

[Tashigi.3159]

> @"Specialka.7290" said:

> If you have any other mmo, De Rifle is easy to play (like most class in gw2). the only current real issue is that you can lost your stealth after a roll if you have a shot en route to your target at that moment, but that will be fixed hopefully.

 

Before and after patch, DE was/is super easy to play. Yes, the dodge roll for stealth can break you out if your auto attack goes off as you dodge, but even if you land the perfect rotation, your DPS will be at 26.5K more or less. Here's an example of what it looks like without errors: https://image.ibb.co/hfueJy/DEpost5_8patch.png

If you mess up and break the stealth, it'll drop by around 1K DPS; if you do it multiple times, it'll be around 2.5K DPS or so.

However, that said, it gets worse. All these changes have put PVE Rifle DE at around 5K DPS less than before the patch.

This is why I am so upset.

A nerf in the guise of a rework to a spec that was already hurting.

 

 

[Astyrah.4015]

> @"kash.9213" said:

> Pretty sure that wont happen since it allows stuff to happen off of Marked target.

i know, but one can hope for something right? i mean you were *sort of* able to do that before the rework when malice was gained over time (and slightly sped up with autos/INI skills) :3

 

 

[Specialka.7290]

> @"Aistos.5174" said:

> > @"Specialka.7290" said:

> > > @"Aistos.5174" said:

> > > > @"Ryans.9571" said:

> > > > Just gonna add my voice in here, I think the changes for non rifle deadeye are super interesting but as a PvE Rifle Deadeye I know feel like I have no purpose. We already had to struggle to prove ourselves but now it is almost impossible to come close to keeping up damage wise. Please find some sort of middle ground that gets rifle back to the way it was while keeping up the support for non rifle Deadeyes. Right now though, I have lost a lot of my drive to play, I am sure in a week or two I will be back but not on my Thief, not unless Rifle gets fixed.

> > >

> > > I'm with you, why don't give some changes (in particular malice) a chance. You have to try new things to get a chance of improving the game. But what I personally still don't understand at all are the changes to the rifle skills: If all the rifle skills would be reset (DJ back at #4, cursed bullet back at stealth-1, snipers cover grants stealth etc.) then why not try out a new malice system.

> > > But right now it just feels like the changes only make your life as a rifle-DE much harder without any reason. The whole rifle-system of DE seems screwed up, mainly because of the weird rifle-skill arrangement (necessary evade for stealth, worthless smoke wall, DJ not at #4 and the absence of cursed bullet - why do we need this obstacles?).

> >

> > If you have any other mmo, De Rifle is easy to play (like most class in gw2). the only current real issue is that you can lost your stealth after a roll if you have a shot en route to your target at that moment, but that will be fixed hopefully.

>

> I don't think "easy" and "difficult" to play are the right words to describe the problem here. It just doesn't feel right how the rifle skills are arranged now, especially if you consider that all these changes were made for this useless smoke wall. I just wanna say I can't see any reasons for the rifle-skill (<> not malice, give it a try) changes at all - for me this arrangement takes so much fun out of the DE that I don't play it for the moment. And that's a pity because that was by far my favourite class.

 

Well, I find the specs more fun now than before the patch because it is far more dynamic to play. So to each its own.

[Zedek.8932]

Wow, these changes are really, really terrible.

I am not here for a week and then see that, I was like "Oh, I can adapt to it", tried it out, and it totally sucks. I really have to use that term.

 

So, if I am not mistaken (because I used to facepalm the entire time trying to figure out the patchnotes "in real" while stumbling over one bad design decion over the next), I need to get stealthed in order to be "allowed" to use the main skill of this profession. Also, if I do so - again, if I am not mistaken there - I lose all my malice at once and have to rebuild it on that target?!

 

First, why would I need to get stealthed for that? What kind of "logic" is that? Do other professions have equality stupid stipulations? "Oh hey, you need to press W, A, D, D, F5 to swing your sword, dear Warrior"? Kneeling is now some weird shadow of its former self, and I really do not have any reason to use that core mechanic anymore - for what? Getting a glorified auto attack from it? Secondly, that might be just because I fail hard because I am somewhat angry and annoyed and bittered (haha, over a video game, I know!) that I do not see any real idea on how to become stealthed "on the go". Before it made so much sense:

 

I saw some target, wanted it dead. So I marked it, it's the core mechanic. I gained malice, because I want it dead. I kneeled and watched it, until I prepared so much for it that I could fire a bullet. (EDIT: Clarification: "to fire a bullet" = Death's Judgement)

 

Now it (seems to be) like this: I have to shoot that guy to gain malice. Sorry, that is not "malice", that's "sadism". Getting satisfaction like this. And when I land a hit on my target, I suddenly lose my malice? How? Why? Am I suddenly now friends with my target?

 

Excuse me little rant over there, but this is terrible so far. Not only is it like suddenly your car operates differently - your pedals steer, your steering wheel brakes and accelerates, and your back mirror is actually the windscreen and the windscreen your back mirror. Try to drive now. You can adapt, after crashing 100 times. But before that happens, you probably lost the will to drive in the first place.

 

I will sleep a night over it or wait for an explanation (sometimes my notification bell rings) what big elephant in the room I might not see, but else, I think I might actually take a long break from this game. Not because of rage because my one and only profession have been changed, but it seemingly had been changed into anything but a sniper. It's outright sad that professional video game designers do this. What's next? id Software changing DooMs rocket launchers into a minigun fireing confetti and heal you, but only on saturdays?

 

Ex..celsior...* sigh *

[Aistos.5174]

> @"Specialka.7290" said:

> > @"Aistos.5174" said:

> > > @"Specialka.7290" said:

> > > > @"Aistos.5174" said:

> > > > > @"Ryans.9571" said:

> > > > > Just gonna add my voice in here, I think the changes for non rifle deadeye are super interesting but as a PvE Rifle Deadeye I know feel like I have no purpose. We already had to struggle to prove ourselves but now it is almost impossible to come close to keeping up damage wise. Please find some sort of middle ground that gets rifle back to the way it was while keeping up the support for non rifle Deadeyes. Right now though, I have lost a lot of my drive to play, I am sure in a week or two I will be back but not on my Thief, not unless Rifle gets fixed.

> > > >

> > > > I'm with you, why don't give some changes (in particular malice) a chance. You have to try new things to get a chance of improving the game. But what I personally still don't understand at all are the changes to the rifle skills: If all the rifle skills would be reset (DJ back at #4, cursed bullet back at stealth-1, snipers cover grants stealth etc.) then why not try out a new malice system.

> > > > But right now it just feels like the changes only make your life as a rifle-DE much harder without any reason. The whole rifle-system of DE seems screwed up, mainly because of the weird rifle-skill arrangement (necessary evade for stealth, worthless smoke wall, DJ not at #4 and the absence of cursed bullet - why do we need this obstacles?).

> > >

> > > If you have any other mmo, De Rifle is easy to play (like most class in gw2). the only current real issue is that you can lost your stealth after a roll if you have a shot en route to your target at that moment, but that will be fixed hopefully.

> >

> > I don't think "easy" and "difficult" to play are the right words to describe the problem here. It just doesn't feel right how the rifle skills are arranged now, especially if you consider that all these changes were made for this useless smoke wall. I just wanna say I can't see any reasons for the rifle-skill (<> not malice, give it a try) changes at all - for me this arrangement takes so much fun out of the DE that I don't play it for the moment. And that's a pity because that was by far my favourite class.

>

> Well, I find the specs more fun now than before the patch because it is far more dynamic to play. So to each its own.

 

Of course, each its own. But do we seriously need that smoke wall? I mean this is the (extremely useless) skill that makes all the trouble for me - in combination with that annoying need of stealth for DJ.

 

Edit: Lol excelent ending of your speak Mr. Zedek, made my evening, thank you Sir. Time to go now.

 

> @"Zedek.8932" said:

> Wow, these changes are really, really terrible.

> ...

> I will sleep a night over it or wait for an explanation (sometimes my notification bell rings) what big elephant in the room I might not see, but else, I think I might actually take a long break from this game. Not because of rage because my one and only profession have been changed, but it seemingly had been changed into anything but a sniper. It's outright sad that professional video game designers do this. What's next? id Software changing DooMs rocket launchers into a minigun fireing confetti and heal you, but only on saturdays?

>

> Ex..celsior...* sigh *

 

 

[DragonSlayer.1087]

> @"Aistos.5174" said:

> > @"Ryans.9571" said:

 

> But right now it just feels like the changes only make your life as a rifle-DE much harder without any reason. The whole rifle-system of DE seems screwed up, mainly because of the weird rifle-skill arrangement (necessary evade for stealth, **worthless smoke wall**, DJ not at #4 and the absence of cursed bullet - why do we need these obstacles?).

 

OMG I totally forgot about that smoke wall lol.... It's so bad.

Maybe rework that Sniper's Cover into a Kneel Version Target-Shadowstep with Stealth. Makes sense and would synergize well with DJ.

Also I feel like they really need to bring back the % extra damage with maintaining malice in addition to consuming it with Stealth.

 

Does anyone notice you automatically lose your stealth (Silent Scope) if you try to dodge while attacking? It's frustrating. You're all of a sudden "Revealed" without even using your DJ.

[Tashigi.3159]

> @"DragonSlayer.1087" said:

> Does anyone notice you automatically lose your stealth (Silent Scope) if you try to dodge while attacking? It's frustrating. You're all of a sudden "Revealed" without even using your DJ.

 

Its your auto attack before DJ is enabled. This happens more often if you have Quickness on. As you roll, your auto attack will shoot and once you're in stealth and DJ is enabled, the first shot from your prior #1 skill will land, unstealth you and you will lose the chance to use DJ.

This is one of the many issues with this change. But the BIGGEST issue that not many people are mentioning, it's the loss of a wooping 11% damage from the old Malice vs the new 10% from trait. You are forced to pick up Premeditation just to make up for it, but then you lose the 20% Crit and ability to Dodge to stealth from Silent Scope. Before, we had both.

[Zedek.8932]

> @"Aistos.5174" said:

> Edit: Lol excelent ending of your speak Mr. Zedek, made my evening, thank you Sir. Time to go now.

>

> > @"Zedek.8932" said:

> > Wow, these changes are really, really terrible.

> > ...

> > I will sleep a night over it or wait for an explanation (sometimes my notification bell rings) what big elephant in the room I might not see, but else, I think I might actually take a long break from this game. Not because of rage because my one and only profession have been changed, but it seemingly had been changed into anything but a sniper. It's outright sad that professional video game designers do this. What's next? id Software changing DooMs rocket launchers into a minigun fireing confetti and heal you, but only on saturdays?

> >

> > Ex..celsior...* sigh *

>

>

 

I am also laughing and giggling hysterically in real life now. Not sure why, but apparently it's my body covering up a huge frustration. Because, I put it as it is, clear and simple, I might actually quit the game.

 

I started as Engineer, and Scrapper turned into full garbage. Then I changed to Thief which was always mediocre, tending to be more on the bad side. Then Deadeye came, and it refreshed my love for it. I am even a Rifle Deadeye, since beginning, despite being objectively sub-optimal that way. But I got used to it. Marking a target, kneeling down, getting stealthed and then just fire our signature skill off. That is what this profession is. Now they did bastardize it, while nerfing it on the way, and there is no reason to keep playing a game that does that. Imagine the DMV changed your car everytime because they come up with retarded rules and regulations just because they can.

 

The funny (and very sad fact) is that I just changed my wallpaper to add the lines "Primary weapon" and such. That was before reading the patchnotes, I haven't touch the game for a couple of days and just quickly flew over the boards. Isn't it funny that now neither Pistol (no stealth) nor Rifle (No..well, everything that defined the rifle on a thief) is my primary or secondary weapon, but only Daggers. A SNIPER USING DAGGERS? Seriously, I was about to curse more at this company, but for what reason?

 

**THIS IS WHAT DEADEYE IS ABOUT, DEAR MR. ROBERT GEE: Follow the arrows and read:**

 


 

Sorry, but this hits me like a truck. I do not really want to create another character, which would be a Necromancer, because it'll be shafted or turned into a sign spinner* by aNet a couple of months later like they did with Engineer/Scrapper.. (* random job that has nothing do with the profession, but that is quite hitting the nail on the head).

 

This way, however, I do not have to care about an underwater expansion pack, because I might spend that money somewhere else. (That is my heart that just breaks, I really loved this game...)

 

I wonder who is actually getting fun from these changes. You should have heard the mix of laugther and a cry of pain when I used the, think about it slowly, "smoke field that blocks projectiles" (!!! That sounds so BS and actually is) and it's like 30cm, one-side effect range. I would rather buy some plywood and carry it around with me, using it directly from my inventory, building it up in front of me, so I can hide behind it. This way I can have my kneeling skills back. Also, how am I supposed to fire through that if I can't see anything (smoke field) and if it's blocking projectiles? Whose thoughts are these? This is such rubbish.

 

 

[Aistos.5174]

Same here: GW 2 was one of the two games I loved playing over the years - I came back again and again after short breaks. I didn‘t regret one cent I spent - untill now.

Somehow it feels like this will become a much bigger break this time...

[Zephyr.5382]

> @"Zedek.8932" said:

> Sorry, but this hits me like a truck. I do not really want to create another character, which would be a Necromancer, because it'll be shafted or turned into a sign spinner* by aNet a couple of months later like they did with Engineer/Scrapper.. (* random job that has nothing do with the profession, but that is quite hitting the nail on the head).

>

> This way, however, I do not have to care about an underwater expansion pack, because I might spend that money somewhere else. (That is my heart that just breaks, I really loved this game...)

>

> I wonder who is actually getting fun from these changes. You should have heard the mix of laugther and a cry of pain when I used the, think about it slowly, "smoke field that blocks projectiles" (!!! That sounds so BS and actually is) and it's like 30cm, one-side effect range. I would rather buy some plywood and carry it around with me, using it directly from my inventory, building it up in front of me, so I can hide behind it. This way I can have my kneeling skills back. Also, how am I supposed to fire through that if I can't see anything (smoke field) and if it's blocking projectiles? Whose thoughts are these? This is such rubbish.

 

Throwing some commiseration your way, krewemate (I am--or was--also an Asura deadeye).

[ShadowAgent.6053]

so my two cents after a day (pve):

 

Pros:

 

- Dagger/Dagger benchmark post-patch is higher than rifle benchmark pre-patch (even with the general nerfs to the static dmg buffs from other classes)

- P/P and rifle are both stronger in open world and on champs/bosses (this is with trickery/critical strikes/deadeye dunno for other trait combinations)

 

Cons:

 

- Rifle is worse on benchmarks and hence in instanced content.

- Sinergy problems with stealthing. Please add a 0.5s window during which dmg can NOT break you out of stealth. This will help the rifle dodge and dps-ing with d/d + shadow flare.

- Sinergy problems on all/most weapon sets regarding malice generation and malice spending. On some it feels like I simply have to get rid of them so I can build them up again (exp.: p/p with M7)

 

 

I mainly do fractals and it seems to me that there the Staff DD will remain the better option, since it can stack more dmg modifiers for higher bursts during the 5s breakbar window, which is key in CMs, but I'm hopeful for the DE in raids. Not having access to the new stolen skills is a bummer tho.

[JonnyForgotten.4276]

So, after several more hours of testing. . . this change should be rolled back. All of it. Payback is terrible compared to Unforgiving (which I was seeing more and more thieves use), the malice being tied to using a stealth attack is a spit in the face of non-stealth thieves. . . it's all just bad. It reduces the number of viable DE builds, and it is all changes NO ONE wanted or asked for. I get that Anet wanted to stop the stealth camp rifle build (i.e. Malice gain being tied to landing hits), but they went way, way too far in my opinion. . . all to nerf a build that had TONS of counterplay to begin with. I am not one to say this usually, but I may very well quit the game over this.

[Tunagod.8396]

> @"Zedek.8932" said:

> > @"Aistos.5174" said:

> > Edit: Lol excelent ending of your speak Mr. Zedek, made my evening, thank you Sir. Time to go now.

> >

> > > @"Zedek.8932" said:

> > > Wow, these changes are really, really terrible.

> > > ...

> > > I will sleep a night over it or wait for an explanation (sometimes my notification bell rings) what big elephant in the room I might not see, but else, I think I might actually take a long break from this game. Not because of rage because my one and only profession have been changed, but it seemingly had been changed into anything but a sniper. It's outright sad that professional video game designers do this. What's next? id Software changing DooMs rocket launchers into a minigun fireing confetti and heal you, but only on saturdays?

> > >

> > > Ex..celsior...* sigh *

> >

> >

>

> I am also laughing and giggling hysterically in real life now. Not sure why, but apparently it's my body covering up a huge frustration. Because, I put it as it is, clear and simple, I might actually quit the game.

>

> I started as Engineer, and Scrapper turned into full garbage. Then I changed to Thief which was always mediocre, tending to be more on the bad side. Then Deadeye came, and it refreshed my love for it. I am even a Rifle Deadeye, since beginning, despite being objectively sub-optimal that way. But I got used to it. Marking a target, kneeling down, getting stealthed and then just fire our signature skill off. That is what this profession is. Now they did bastardize it, while nerfing it on the way, and there is no reason to keep playing a game that does that. Imagine the DMV changed your car everytime because they come up with kitten rules and regulations just because they can.

>

> The funny (and very sad fact) is that I just changed my wallpaper to add the lines "Primary weapon" and such. That was before reading the patchnotes, I haven't touch the game for a couple of days and just quickly flew over the boards. Isn't it funny that now neither Pistol (no stealth) nor Rifle (No..well, everything that defined the rifle on a thief) is my primary or secondary weapon, but only Daggers. A SNIPER USING DAGGERS? Seriously, I was about to curse more at this company, but for what reason?

>

> **THIS IS WHAT DEADEYE IS ABOUT, DEAR MR. ROBERT GEE: Follow the arrows and read:**

>

> 

>

> Sorry, but this hits me like a truck. I do not really want to create another character, which would be a Necromancer, because it'll be shafted or turned into a sign spinner* by aNet a couple of months later like they did with Engineer/Scrapper.. (* random job that has nothing do with the profession, but that is quite hitting the nail on the head).

>

> This way, however, I do not have to care about an underwater expansion pack, because I might spend that money somewhere else. (That is my heart that just breaks, I really loved this game...)

>

> I wonder who is actually getting fun from these changes. You should have heard the mix of laugther and a cry of pain when I used the, think about it slowly, "smoke field that blocks projectiles" (!!! That sounds so BS and actually is) and it's like 30cm, one-side effect range. I would rather buy some plywood and carry it around with me, using it directly from my inventory, building it up in front of me, so I can hide behind it. This way I can have my kneeling skills back. Also, how am I supposed to fire through that if I can't see anything (smoke field) and if it's blocking projectiles? Whose thoughts are these? This is such rubbish.

>

>

 

Look im with you 100% on this but you know who's getting the fun from these changes? The large majority of the people who run DP so that they can screw over the DE class by making it basically for the damn vanilla class. They should just change the class name and all the rifle pictures. > @"Zedek.8932" said:

> Wow, these changes are really, really terrible.

> I am not here for a week and then see that, I was like "Oh, I can adapt to it", tried it out, and it totally sucks. I really have to use that term.

>

> So, if I am not mistaken (because I used to facepalm the entire time trying to figure out the patchnotes "in real" while stumbling over one bad design decion over the next), I need to get stealthed in order to be "allowed" to use the main skill of this profession. Also, if I do so - again, if I am not mistaken there - I lose all my malice at once and have to rebuild it on that target?!

>

> First, why would I need to get stealthed for that? What kind of "logic" is that? Do other professions have equality stupid stipulations? "Oh hey, you need to press W, A, D, D, F5 to swing your sword, dear Warrior"? Kneeling is now some weird shadow of its former self, and I really do not have any reason to use that core mechanic anymore - for what? Getting a glorified auto attack from it? Secondly, that might be just because I fail hard because I am somewhat angry and annoyed and bittered (haha, over a video game, I know!) that I do not see any real idea on how to become stealthed "on the go". Before it made so much sense:

>

> I saw some target, wanted it dead. So I marked it, it's the core mechanic. I gained malice, because I want it dead. I kneeled and watched it, until I prepared so much for it that I could fire a bullet. (EDIT: Clarification: "to fire a bullet" = Death's Judgement)

>

> Now it (seems to be) like this: I have to shoot that guy to gain malice. Sorry, that is not "malice", that's "sadism". Getting satisfaction like this. And when I land a hit on my target, I suddenly lose my malice? How? Why? Am I suddenly now friends with my target?

>

> Excuse me little rant over there, but this is terrible so far. Not only is it like suddenly your car operates differently - your pedals steer, your steering wheel brakes and accelerates, and your back mirror is actually the windscreen and the windscreen your back mirror. Try to drive now. You can adapt, after crashing 100 times. But before that happens, you probably lost the will to drive in the first place.

>

> I will sleep a night over it or wait for an explanation (sometimes my notification bell rings) what big elephant in the room I might not see, but else, I think I might actually take a long break from this game. Not because of rage because my one and only profession have been changed, but it seemingly had been changed into anything but a sniper. It's outright sad that professional video game designers do this. What's next? id Software changing DooMs rocket launchers into a minigun fireing confetti and heal you, but only on saturdays?

>

> Ex..celsior...* sigh *

 

 

I couldn't say it any better myself thank you.

[Cameryn.5310]

> @"ShadowAgent.6053" said:

> so my two cents after a day (pve):

>

> Pros:

>

> - P/P and rifle are both stronger in open world and on champs/bosses (this is with trickery/critical strikes/deadeye dunno for other trait combinations)

 

Can you explain to me how P/P is stronger in open world? I play P/P + Rifle exclusively and malice is completely useless to me now. I don't see the numbers going up, in fact they seem lower to me on general targets.

[Tashigi.3159]

> @"Cameryn.5310" said:

> Can you explain to me how P/P is stronger in open world? I play P/P + Rifle exclusively and malice is completely useless to me now. I don't see the numbers going up, in fact they seem lower to me on general targets.

 

It isn't. You are experiencing a DPS loss.

The old Malice gave 21% more damage with M7 (3% per malice). Not to mention, it was a self buff, not put on your marked target. So you could technically mark 1 person and attack another while still having the 21% bonus.

At best, with the new traits, you have 10% and only on the marked target, then you have to choose between 1% extra per boon or 20% crit when kneeled. There is no gain here, only loss. Unless you're power D/D DE.

[ShadowAgent.6053]

If you are using the be quick or be killed trait dmg is higher since most stuff would die before you build up malice, but now you have a minor trait that gives you flat +10% dmg from the start.

 

On champs you can use 7M to regain unitiative and spam a lot more your number 3 skill of choice and also you can get the buffs more than once per new mark.

 

The lower number are with rifle in a group setting where you would get buffs from your group and you can no longer spam DJ.

 

Edit: My statement assumes running full glass cannon gear or at least marauders. If geared defensively, thus having more time for the old malice to build up, then it can be considered a nerf to that playstyle.

[babazhook.6805]

> @"Cameryn.5310" said:

> > @"Astyrah.4015" said:

> >

> > P/P BeQuick Deadeye is fun to play in open world PvE (anything sub-veteran rank will usually melt really fast by just opening with DE mark then spamming unload) but suffers from lack of good sustainable DPS on boss fights with high HP pools (basically your opening burst is really good and that's most of where your damage comes from and then you start losing steam on prolonged fights if it drags too long) and you pretty much have no spammable AOE if you don't have a shortbow/dagger+dagger/sword for a swap set, but it is definitely usable. for PvP i think the go-to now after the changes is D/P or D/D but i will leave other people to inform you about the PvP things

>

> This is all true.

>

> As a P/P PvE deadeye, MY complaint that I shared earlier in this thread is that we really no longer use Malice in any capacity... there are no weapon skills that grant stealth, and only two cantrips that are pretty much substandard. So all the Malice changes have made that mechanic utterly useless.... but the deadeye trait line is still vital (considering that it changes steals to ranged).

>

 

When you look at this objectively his simply not true. P/P is in a better place since these changes.

 

Little was lost with the changes while at the same time significant gains made. There are now VERY good reasons to having some stealth in the build which in turn leads to use of more of the p/p builds skills.

 

If you were one that used Bqobk you have lost next to nothing in the way of overall damage given the changes to Iron sights and the add of premeditation. Take these skills and keep BqobK and your build will play very much like the old outside durations on stolen skills.

 

If you want to maximize the return of malice then switch BqoBk to MALI 7 and get some stealth in there. The payback is significant.