Ubi.4136 Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 > @"Jski.6180" said: > > @"Ubi.4136" said: > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > @"Ubi.4136" said: > > > > > @"Roxanne.6140" said: > > > > > > @"Ubi.4136" said: > > > > > > It's definitely a huge buff that needs to be reverted in wvw. First, it shouldn't be able to hit nearly all of the stairs in a tower (and every inch of every wall). But, Anet doesn't give a kitten and wants blobs to be able to mow down towers fast. But, it kills 100% health superior arrow carts in 2 hits...this is definitely not ok. > > > > > > They need to make it reflectable. If they can nearly instakill EVERYTHING on a wall in 1 cast, than a mesmer hitting them with feedback mid cast should put the damage back on them. > > > > > > > > > > It's actually only scraping the surface of why Weaver is a subpar damage class when compared to scourge. The meteor has a long cast time and falls slowly which is weird given how large a meteor is, I was expecting to fall faster. Most of the time ppl can just walk away from it and not get hit at all. Hitting with weaver's damage skill is even situational. And when Weaver does generate downs, they are often in random clumps which his ally zerg cannot capitalise on. So there is often the situation that the Weaver is generating downs but his zerg is still losing. > > > > > > > > But they don't have to finish the cast to get damage, and now the first 2 hits are enough to destroy a full health superior AC or balista. The aoe is large enough that it takes 2 full dodges to get out and you can get hit, dodge, get hit and already be dead (usually cause all the scourges kitten on the wall). It's not the only problem, but they should revert the change to meteor and then nerf it's radius, cause it should NOT be able to hit the back of the stairs, that makes the wall useless. (they also need to fix scourge and rev abilities that ignore LOS and can hit/kill people on siege inside, but that is for another thread). > > > > > > Or you just block most of the dmg and heal every bit that your taking or have barrier simply stop all the dmg. MS is a pure dmg skill with out any real effects to deal with so many hard counters to it (more of a flaw of the class then the skill). > > > > Cause "every" class has endless blocks and barriers. Oh wait, they don't. Defending a tower, usually outnumbered (cause blob servers are allowed to stay in lower tiers than they should be in). Trying to take out shield gens or "anything". The red circle is up and you have been hit once before you can even get off the siege piece. You attempt to dodge away and are already downed (combination of the radius of the aoe, the tons of scourge wall spam and the lag that accompanies large blobs). Even in a full zerk spec (and the scourge circles of doom) I never had a problem staying on siege and using it, hopping off an AC when meteor was casting, and hopping back on (before the skill change). Never downed, and it would take the Ele 3 casting rounds to remove a siege piece (exposing them usually to being killed or at least making them run). Now, they can cast half of meteor, cancel and run away, it will kill superior AC's that were full health and me. > > > > They should have reduced the radius years ago, but making the first 2 hits destroy nearly 100% of siege by itself is overpowered. > > They do because its all aoe blocks / barrier why do you think the wvw meta is a 2 class scorge and FB that all you need to deal with dmg and all you need to do dmg. If the siege is placed right MS will never hit it you use fire signet to hit the hard to reach siege but i think that a bug more then intended. So, the 1 person sentry in a tower has access to all the aoe blocks that the meta 5 man has access too? Interesting. Or, maybe the 1 or 2 stragglers that get in past the 50 man blob also have access to all the 5 man meta abilities. The point is that the skill has a ridiculous radius for being able to take out all wall siege in 2 hits (which isn't even the full cast). Meteor can hit EVERY inch of nearly every wall in the game, including siege placed at the back of stairs nearly floating on air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jski.6180 Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 > @"Ubi.4136" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"Ubi.4136" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > @"Ubi.4136" said: > > > > > > @"Roxanne.6140" said: > > > > > > > @"Ubi.4136" said: > > > > > > > It's definitely a huge buff that needs to be reverted in wvw. First, it shouldn't be able to hit nearly all of the stairs in a tower (and every inch of every wall). But, Anet doesn't give a kitten and wants blobs to be able to mow down towers fast. But, it kills 100% health superior arrow carts in 2 hits...this is definitely not ok. > > > > > > > They need to make it reflectable. If they can nearly instakill EVERYTHING on a wall in 1 cast, than a mesmer hitting them with feedback mid cast should put the damage back on them. > > > > > > > > > > > > It's actually only scraping the surface of why Weaver is a subpar damage class when compared to scourge. The meteor has a long cast time and falls slowly which is weird given how large a meteor is, I was expecting to fall faster. Most of the time ppl can just walk away from it and not get hit at all. Hitting with weaver's damage skill is even situational. And when Weaver does generate downs, they are often in random clumps which his ally zerg cannot capitalise on. So there is often the situation that the Weaver is generating downs but his zerg is still losing. > > > > > > > > > > But they don't have to finish the cast to get damage, and now the first 2 hits are enough to destroy a full health superior AC or balista. The aoe is large enough that it takes 2 full dodges to get out and you can get hit, dodge, get hit and already be dead (usually cause all the scourges kitten on the wall). It's not the only problem, but they should revert the change to meteor and then nerf it's radius, cause it should NOT be able to hit the back of the stairs, that makes the wall useless. (they also need to fix scourge and rev abilities that ignore LOS and can hit/kill people on siege inside, but that is for another thread). > > > > > > > > Or you just block most of the dmg and heal every bit that your taking or have barrier simply stop all the dmg. MS is a pure dmg skill with out any real effects to deal with so many hard counters to it (more of a flaw of the class then the skill). > > > > > > Cause "every" class has endless blocks and barriers. Oh wait, they don't. Defending a tower, usually outnumbered (cause blob servers are allowed to stay in lower tiers than they should be in). Trying to take out shield gens or "anything". The red circle is up and you have been hit once before you can even get off the siege piece. You attempt to dodge away and are already downed (combination of the radius of the aoe, the tons of scourge wall spam and the lag that accompanies large blobs). Even in a full zerk spec (and the scourge circles of doom) I never had a problem staying on siege and using it, hopping off an AC when meteor was casting, and hopping back on (before the skill change). Never downed, and it would take the Ele 3 casting rounds to remove a siege piece (exposing them usually to being killed or at least making them run). Now, they can cast half of meteor, cancel and run away, it will kill superior AC's that were full health and me. > > > > > > They should have reduced the radius years ago, but making the first 2 hits destroy nearly 100% of siege by itself is overpowered. > > > > They do because its all aoe blocks / barrier why do you think the wvw meta is a 2 class scorge and FB that all you need to deal with dmg and all you need to do dmg. If the siege is placed right MS will never hit it you use fire signet to hit the hard to reach siege but i think that a bug more then intended. > > So, the 1 person sentry in a tower has access to all the aoe blocks that the meta 5 man has access too? Interesting. Or, maybe the 1 or 2 stragglers that get in past the 50 man blob also have access to all the 5 man meta abilities. The point is that the skill has a ridiculous radius for being able to take out all wall siege in 2 hits (which isn't even the full cast). Meteor can hit EVERY inch of nearly every wall in the game, including siege placed at the back of stairs nearly floating on air. Right 1 person has access to a block that means the 4 other ppl in that pt dose too. At the same time barrier and realty all dmg -% tend to be a front loaded effect where the MS is going to do most of its dmg but because of all this anty dmg your MS will start to do less dmg just as there dmg reduction and support falls off. It just dose not work out well for the ele but it works out well for every one else. Meteor hits 3 targets per rock if it dose 24 times. This is comply out of the control of the ele who gets hit or how many times they are hit or even when they are hit. You dont even have the ability to speed up this hit as ele dose not have quickness other players are in more control over the timing of the rock fall then the ele it self because of this. Meteor is not a dmg skill it is a AoE control skill like most of staff skills. To drop its dmg over time weakens its effect for an AoE control. All of this because its doing too much dmg in pve even after they added in skill splits of pvp vs pve. This is complete foolishness and a real lack of any detection of balancing. Just doing things at random and see how it randomly effects other parts of the game. This game is not updated fast enofe for this type of balancing to ever work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ubi.4136 Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 > @"Jski.6180" said: > > @"Ubi.4136" said: > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > @"Ubi.4136" said: > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > @"Ubi.4136" said: > > > > > > > @"Roxanne.6140" said: > > > > > > > > @"Ubi.4136" said: > > > > > > > > It's definitely a huge buff that needs to be reverted in wvw. First, it shouldn't be able to hit nearly all of the stairs in a tower (and every inch of every wall). But, Anet doesn't give a kitten and wants blobs to be able to mow down towers fast. But, it kills 100% health superior arrow carts in 2 hits...this is definitely not ok. > > > > > > > > They need to make it reflectable. If they can nearly instakill EVERYTHING on a wall in 1 cast, than a mesmer hitting them with feedback mid cast should put the damage back on them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's actually only scraping the surface of why Weaver is a subpar damage class when compared to scourge. The meteor has a long cast time and falls slowly which is weird given how large a meteor is, I was expecting to fall faster. Most of the time ppl can just walk away from it and not get hit at all. Hitting with weaver's damage skill is even situational. And when Weaver does generate downs, they are often in random clumps which his ally zerg cannot capitalise on. So there is often the situation that the Weaver is generating downs but his zerg is still losing. > > > > > > > > > > > > But they don't have to finish the cast to get damage, and now the first 2 hits are enough to destroy a full health superior AC or balista. The aoe is large enough that it takes 2 full dodges to get out and you can get hit, dodge, get hit and already be dead (usually cause all the scourges kitten on the wall). It's not the only problem, but they should revert the change to meteor and then nerf it's radius, cause it should NOT be able to hit the back of the stairs, that makes the wall useless. (they also need to fix scourge and rev abilities that ignore LOS and can hit/kill people on siege inside, but that is for another thread). > > > > > > > > > > Or you just block most of the dmg and heal every bit that your taking or have barrier simply stop all the dmg. MS is a pure dmg skill with out any real effects to deal with so many hard counters to it (more of a flaw of the class then the skill). > > > > > > > > Cause "every" class has endless blocks and barriers. Oh wait, they don't. Defending a tower, usually outnumbered (cause blob servers are allowed to stay in lower tiers than they should be in). Trying to take out shield gens or "anything". The red circle is up and you have been hit once before you can even get off the siege piece. You attempt to dodge away and are already downed (combination of the radius of the aoe, the tons of scourge wall spam and the lag that accompanies large blobs). Even in a full zerk spec (and the scourge circles of doom) I never had a problem staying on siege and using it, hopping off an AC when meteor was casting, and hopping back on (before the skill change). Never downed, and it would take the Ele 3 casting rounds to remove a siege piece (exposing them usually to being killed or at least making them run). Now, they can cast half of meteor, cancel and run away, it will kill superior AC's that were full health and me. > > > > > > > > They should have reduced the radius years ago, but making the first 2 hits destroy nearly 100% of siege by itself is overpowered. > > > > > > They do because its all aoe blocks / barrier why do you think the wvw meta is a 2 class scorge and FB that all you need to deal with dmg and all you need to do dmg. If the siege is placed right MS will never hit it you use fire signet to hit the hard to reach siege but i think that a bug more then intended. > > > > So, the 1 person sentry in a tower has access to all the aoe blocks that the meta 5 man has access too? Interesting. Or, maybe the 1 or 2 stragglers that get in past the 50 man blob also have access to all the 5 man meta abilities. The point is that the skill has a ridiculous radius for being able to take out all wall siege in 2 hits (which isn't even the full cast). Meteor can hit EVERY inch of nearly every wall in the game, including siege placed at the back of stairs nearly floating on air. > > Right 1 person has access to a block that means the 4 other ppl in that pt dose too. At the same time barrier and realty all dmg -% tend to be a front loaded effect where the MS is going to do most of its dmg but because of all this anty dmg your MS will start to do less dmg just as there dmg reduction and support falls off. It just dose not work out well for the ele but it works out well for every one else. > > Meteor hits 3 targets per rock if it dose 24 times. This is comply out of the control of the ele who gets hit or how many times they are hit or even when they are hit. You dont even have the ability to speed up this hit as ele dose not have quickness other players are in more control over the timing of the rock fall then the ele it self because of this. > > Meteor is not a dmg skill it is a AoE control skill like most of staff skills. To drop its dmg over time weakens its effect for an AoE control. All of this because its doing too much dmg in pve even after they added in skill splits of pvp vs pve. This is complete foolishness and a real lack of any detection of balancing. Just doing things at random and see how it randomly effects other parts of the game. This game is not updated fast enofe for this type of balancing to ever work. Meteor is completely a damage skill. Here is a "just happened 20 minutes ago" event. JQ taking Wild Creek. I am on the only treb near lords room trying to destroy the catas in the cata spot. I would say maybe a tenth of a second after the red aoe circle went up for meteor, I hit F to get off the treb and blink to get the hell out of the way...I had already taken my second hit by the time I was "off" the treb. 10k+ each hit and it also destroyed the treb that had been at full health. I literally would have needed them to whisper me first to say "I am about to cast" to not be downed and subsequently killed by successive hits (which reset on downing, so they were back to full damage after I went down). Sure, it may be good to use it as an area of denial skill, but don't BS anyone...it is a damage skill, it kills in 2 hits (which can happen in under a second) and it destroys all siege it touches in a single cast (usually only 2 hits needed). The problem with the skill is the radius is too large (it always has been) and now it hits harder for the first 2 hits...it needs to be reverted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jski.6180 Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 > @"Ubi.4136" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"Ubi.4136" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > @"Ubi.4136" said: > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > @"Ubi.4136" said: > > > > > > > > @"Roxanne.6140" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Ubi.4136" said: > > > > > > > > > It's definitely a huge buff that needs to be reverted in wvw. First, it shouldn't be able to hit nearly all of the stairs in a tower (and every inch of every wall). But, Anet doesn't give a kitten and wants blobs to be able to mow down towers fast. But, it kills 100% health superior arrow carts in 2 hits...this is definitely not ok. > > > > > > > > > They need to make it reflectable. If they can nearly instakill EVERYTHING on a wall in 1 cast, than a mesmer hitting them with feedback mid cast should put the damage back on them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's actually only scraping the surface of why Weaver is a subpar damage class when compared to scourge. The meteor has a long cast time and falls slowly which is weird given how large a meteor is, I was expecting to fall faster. Most of the time ppl can just walk away from it and not get hit at all. Hitting with weaver's damage skill is even situational. And when Weaver does generate downs, they are often in random clumps which his ally zerg cannot capitalise on. So there is often the situation that the Weaver is generating downs but his zerg is still losing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But they don't have to finish the cast to get damage, and now the first 2 hits are enough to destroy a full health superior AC or balista. The aoe is large enough that it takes 2 full dodges to get out and you can get hit, dodge, get hit and already be dead (usually cause all the scourges kitten on the wall). It's not the only problem, but they should revert the change to meteor and then nerf it's radius, cause it should NOT be able to hit the back of the stairs, that makes the wall useless. (they also need to fix scourge and rev abilities that ignore LOS and can hit/kill people on siege inside, but that is for another thread). > > > > > > > > > > > > Or you just block most of the dmg and heal every bit that your taking or have barrier simply stop all the dmg. MS is a pure dmg skill with out any real effects to deal with so many hard counters to it (more of a flaw of the class then the skill). > > > > > > > > > > Cause "every" class has endless blocks and barriers. Oh wait, they don't. Defending a tower, usually outnumbered (cause blob servers are allowed to stay in lower tiers than they should be in). Trying to take out shield gens or "anything". The red circle is up and you have been hit once before you can even get off the siege piece. You attempt to dodge away and are already downed (combination of the radius of the aoe, the tons of scourge wall spam and the lag that accompanies large blobs). Even in a full zerk spec (and the scourge circles of doom) I never had a problem staying on siege and using it, hopping off an AC when meteor was casting, and hopping back on (before the skill change). Never downed, and it would take the Ele 3 casting rounds to remove a siege piece (exposing them usually to being killed or at least making them run). Now, they can cast half of meteor, cancel and run away, it will kill superior AC's that were full health and me. > > > > > > > > > > They should have reduced the radius years ago, but making the first 2 hits destroy nearly 100% of siege by itself is overpowered. > > > > > > > > They do because its all aoe blocks / barrier why do you think the wvw meta is a 2 class scorge and FB that all you need to deal with dmg and all you need to do dmg. If the siege is placed right MS will never hit it you use fire signet to hit the hard to reach siege but i think that a bug more then intended. > > > > > > So, the 1 person sentry in a tower has access to all the aoe blocks that the meta 5 man has access too? Interesting. Or, maybe the 1 or 2 stragglers that get in past the 50 man blob also have access to all the 5 man meta abilities. The point is that the skill has a ridiculous radius for being able to take out all wall siege in 2 hits (which isn't even the full cast). Meteor can hit EVERY inch of nearly every wall in the game, including siege placed at the back of stairs nearly floating on air. > > > > Right 1 person has access to a block that means the 4 other ppl in that pt dose too. At the same time barrier and realty all dmg -% tend to be a front loaded effect where the MS is going to do most of its dmg but because of all this anty dmg your MS will start to do less dmg just as there dmg reduction and support falls off. It just dose not work out well for the ele but it works out well for every one else. > > > > Meteor hits 3 targets per rock if it dose 24 times. This is comply out of the control of the ele who gets hit or how many times they are hit or even when they are hit. You dont even have the ability to speed up this hit as ele dose not have quickness other players are in more control over the timing of the rock fall then the ele it self because of this. > > > > Meteor is not a dmg skill it is a AoE control skill like most of staff skills. To drop its dmg over time weakens its effect for an AoE control. All of this because its doing too much dmg in pve even after they added in skill splits of pvp vs pve. This is complete foolishness and a real lack of any detection of balancing. Just doing things at random and see how it randomly effects other parts of the game. This game is not updated fast enofe for this type of balancing to ever work. > > Meteor is completely a damage skill. Here is a "just happened 20 minutes ago" event. JQ taking Wild Creek. I am on the only treb near lords room trying to destroy the catas in the cata spot. I would say maybe a tenth of a second after the red aoe circle went up for meteor, I hit F to get off the treb and blink to get the hell out of the way...I had already taken my second hit by the time I was "off" the treb. 10k+ each hit and it also destroyed the treb that had been at full health. I literally would have needed them to whisper me first to say "I am about to cast" to not be downed and subsequently killed by successive hits (which reset on downing, so they were back to full damage after I went down). Sure, it may be good to use it as an area of denial skill, but don't BS anyone...it is a damage skill, it kills in 2 hits (which can happen in under a second) and it destroys all siege it touches in a single cast (usually only 2 hits needed). Then it was a badly placed treb. I do not know what to tell you but Meteor is an aoe control spell it controls that aoe with dmg if some one stands in it they should be pushed not reward by taking less dmg. There is no reason for it to lose dmg per hit on a target over time in wvw or spvp it should only effect pve. The fact that there was a skill split and some skills are still split yet they are unwilling to do this with Meteor show a lot of disconnected of Anet and there balancing teams. Its great it dose more dmg on the first 2 hits and it will down ppl not kill them something that is easy to fix and easy to counter for the ppl getting hit by the Meteor. The ele is never going to be able to deal with these counters and will do less dmg to these players over all because of this update REAL dmg as in dmg that downs and kills not just dmg that is quickly healed away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ubi.4136 Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 > @"Jski.6180" said: > > @"Ubi.4136" said: > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > @"Ubi.4136" said: > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > @"Ubi.4136" said: > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > @"Ubi.4136" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Roxanne.6140" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Ubi.4136" said: > > > > > > > > > > It's definitely a huge buff that needs to be reverted in wvw. First, it shouldn't be able to hit nearly all of the stairs in a tower (and every inch of every wall). But, Anet doesn't give a kitten and wants blobs to be able to mow down towers fast. But, it kills 100% health superior arrow carts in 2 hits...this is definitely not ok. > > > > > > > > > > They need to make it reflectable. If they can nearly instakill EVERYTHING on a wall in 1 cast, than a mesmer hitting them with feedback mid cast should put the damage back on them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's actually only scraping the surface of why Weaver is a subpar damage class when compared to scourge. The meteor has a long cast time and falls slowly which is weird given how large a meteor is, I was expecting to fall faster. Most of the time ppl can just walk away from it and not get hit at all. Hitting with weaver's damage skill is even situational. And when Weaver does generate downs, they are often in random clumps which his ally zerg cannot capitalise on. So there is often the situation that the Weaver is generating downs but his zerg is still losing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But they don't have to finish the cast to get damage, and now the first 2 hits are enough to destroy a full health superior AC or balista. The aoe is large enough that it takes 2 full dodges to get out and you can get hit, dodge, get hit and already be dead (usually cause all the scourges kitten on the wall). It's not the only problem, but they should revert the change to meteor and then nerf it's radius, cause it should NOT be able to hit the back of the stairs, that makes the wall useless. (they also need to fix scourge and rev abilities that ignore LOS and can hit/kill people on siege inside, but that is for another thread). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or you just block most of the dmg and heal every bit that your taking or have barrier simply stop all the dmg. MS is a pure dmg skill with out any real effects to deal with so many hard counters to it (more of a flaw of the class then the skill). > > > > > > > > > > > > Cause "every" class has endless blocks and barriers. Oh wait, they don't. Defending a tower, usually outnumbered (cause blob servers are allowed to stay in lower tiers than they should be in). Trying to take out shield gens or "anything". The red circle is up and you have been hit once before you can even get off the siege piece. You attempt to dodge away and are already downed (combination of the radius of the aoe, the tons of scourge wall spam and the lag that accompanies large blobs). Even in a full zerk spec (and the scourge circles of doom) I never had a problem staying on siege and using it, hopping off an AC when meteor was casting, and hopping back on (before the skill change). Never downed, and it would take the Ele 3 casting rounds to remove a siege piece (exposing them usually to being killed or at least making them run). Now, they can cast half of meteor, cancel and run away, it will kill superior AC's that were full health and me. > > > > > > > > > > > > They should have reduced the radius years ago, but making the first 2 hits destroy nearly 100% of siege by itself is overpowered. > > > > > > > > > > They do because its all aoe blocks / barrier why do you think the wvw meta is a 2 class scorge and FB that all you need to deal with dmg and all you need to do dmg. If the siege is placed right MS will never hit it you use fire signet to hit the hard to reach siege but i think that a bug more then intended. > > > > > > > > So, the 1 person sentry in a tower has access to all the aoe blocks that the meta 5 man has access too? Interesting. Or, maybe the 1 or 2 stragglers that get in past the 50 man blob also have access to all the 5 man meta abilities. The point is that the skill has a ridiculous radius for being able to take out all wall siege in 2 hits (which isn't even the full cast). Meteor can hit EVERY inch of nearly every wall in the game, including siege placed at the back of stairs nearly floating on air. > > > > > > Right 1 person has access to a block that means the 4 other ppl in that pt dose too. At the same time barrier and realty all dmg -% tend to be a front loaded effect where the MS is going to do most of its dmg but because of all this anty dmg your MS will start to do less dmg just as there dmg reduction and support falls off. It just dose not work out well for the ele but it works out well for every one else. > > > > > > Meteor hits 3 targets per rock if it dose 24 times. This is comply out of the control of the ele who gets hit or how many times they are hit or even when they are hit. You dont even have the ability to speed up this hit as ele dose not have quickness other players are in more control over the timing of the rock fall then the ele it self because of this. > > > > > > Meteor is not a dmg skill it is a AoE control skill like most of staff skills. To drop its dmg over time weakens its effect for an AoE control. All of this because its doing too much dmg in pve even after they added in skill splits of pvp vs pve. This is complete foolishness and a real lack of any detection of balancing. Just doing things at random and see how it randomly effects other parts of the game. This game is not updated fast enofe for this type of balancing to ever work. > > > > Meteor is completely a damage skill. Here is a "just happened 20 minutes ago" event. JQ taking Wild Creek. I am on the only treb near lords room trying to destroy the catas in the cata spot. I would say maybe a tenth of a second after the red aoe circle went up for meteor, I hit F to get off the treb and blink to get the hell out of the way...I had already taken my second hit by the time I was "off" the treb. 10k+ each hit and it also destroyed the treb that had been at full health. I literally would have needed them to whisper me first to say "I am about to cast" to not be downed and subsequently killed by successive hits (which reset on downing, so they were back to full damage after I went down). Sure, it may be good to use it as an area of denial skill, but don't BS anyone...it is a damage skill, it kills in 2 hits (which can happen in under a second) and it destroys all siege it touches in a single cast (usually only 2 hits needed). > > Then it was a badly placed treb. I do not know what to tell you but Meteor is an aoe control spell it controls that aoe with dmg if some one stands in it they should be pushed not reward by taking less dmg. There is no reason for it to lose dmg per hit on a target over time in wvw or spvp it should only effect pve. The fact that there was a skill split and some skills are still split yet they are unwilling to do this with Meteor show a lot of disconnected of Anet and there balancing teams. > > Its great it dose more dmg on the first 2 hits and it will down ppl not kill them something that is easy to fix and easy to counter for the ppl getting hit by the Meteor. The ele is never going to be able to deal with these counters and will do less dmg to these players over all because of this update REAL dmg as in dmg that downs and kills not just dmg that is quickly healed away. Did you really just say that it controls by doing damage? That makes every skill in the game a control skill. If you stand in this spot while I hit backstab you will die, therefore, you should just move. Uh, that makes it a damage skill, not control. Stuns, fear, knockdowns...those are "control" skills. Meteor is a oversized aoe damage that now hits far too hard for it's radius in just the first two ticks of the damage cycle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jski.6180 Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 > @"Ubi.4136" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"Ubi.4136" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > @"Ubi.4136" said: > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > @"Ubi.4136" said: > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Ubi.4136" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Roxanne.6140" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ubi.4136" said: > > > > > > > > > > > It's definitely a huge buff that needs to be reverted in wvw. First, it shouldn't be able to hit nearly all of the stairs in a tower (and every inch of every wall). But, Anet doesn't give a kitten and wants blobs to be able to mow down towers fast. But, it kills 100% health superior arrow carts in 2 hits...this is definitely not ok. > > > > > > > > > > > They need to make it reflectable. If they can nearly instakill EVERYTHING on a wall in 1 cast, than a mesmer hitting them with feedback mid cast should put the damage back on them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's actually only scraping the surface of why Weaver is a subpar damage class when compared to scourge. The meteor has a long cast time and falls slowly which is weird given how large a meteor is, I was expecting to fall faster. Most of the time ppl can just walk away from it and not get hit at all. Hitting with weaver's damage skill is even situational. And when Weaver does generate downs, they are often in random clumps which his ally zerg cannot capitalise on. So there is often the situation that the Weaver is generating downs but his zerg is still losing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But they don't have to finish the cast to get damage, and now the first 2 hits are enough to destroy a full health superior AC or balista. The aoe is large enough that it takes 2 full dodges to get out and you can get hit, dodge, get hit and already be dead (usually cause all the scourges kitten on the wall). It's not the only problem, but they should revert the change to meteor and then nerf it's radius, cause it should NOT be able to hit the back of the stairs, that makes the wall useless. (they also need to fix scourge and rev abilities that ignore LOS and can hit/kill people on siege inside, but that is for another thread). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or you just block most of the dmg and heal every bit that your taking or have barrier simply stop all the dmg. MS is a pure dmg skill with out any real effects to deal with so many hard counters to it (more of a flaw of the class then the skill). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cause "every" class has endless blocks and barriers. Oh wait, they don't. Defending a tower, usually outnumbered (cause blob servers are allowed to stay in lower tiers than they should be in). Trying to take out shield gens or "anything". The red circle is up and you have been hit once before you can even get off the siege piece. You attempt to dodge away and are already downed (combination of the radius of the aoe, the tons of scourge wall spam and the lag that accompanies large blobs). Even in a full zerk spec (and the scourge circles of doom) I never had a problem staying on siege and using it, hopping off an AC when meteor was casting, and hopping back on (before the skill change). Never downed, and it would take the Ele 3 casting rounds to remove a siege piece (exposing them usually to being killed or at least making them run). Now, they can cast half of meteor, cancel and run away, it will kill superior AC's that were full health and me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They should have reduced the radius years ago, but making the first 2 hits destroy nearly 100% of siege by itself is overpowered. > > > > > > > > > > > > They do because its all aoe blocks / barrier why do you think the wvw meta is a 2 class scorge and FB that all you need to deal with dmg and all you need to do dmg. If the siege is placed right MS will never hit it you use fire signet to hit the hard to reach siege but i think that a bug more then intended. > > > > > > > > > > So, the 1 person sentry in a tower has access to all the aoe blocks that the meta 5 man has access too? Interesting. Or, maybe the 1 or 2 stragglers that get in past the 50 man blob also have access to all the 5 man meta abilities. The point is that the skill has a ridiculous radius for being able to take out all wall siege in 2 hits (which isn't even the full cast). Meteor can hit EVERY inch of nearly every wall in the game, including siege placed at the back of stairs nearly floating on air. > > > > > > > > Right 1 person has access to a block that means the 4 other ppl in that pt dose too. At the same time barrier and realty all dmg -% tend to be a front loaded effect where the MS is going to do most of its dmg but because of all this anty dmg your MS will start to do less dmg just as there dmg reduction and support falls off. It just dose not work out well for the ele but it works out well for every one else. > > > > > > > > Meteor hits 3 targets per rock if it dose 24 times. This is comply out of the control of the ele who gets hit or how many times they are hit or even when they are hit. You dont even have the ability to speed up this hit as ele dose not have quickness other players are in more control over the timing of the rock fall then the ele it self because of this. > > > > > > > > Meteor is not a dmg skill it is a AoE control skill like most of staff skills. To drop its dmg over time weakens its effect for an AoE control. All of this because its doing too much dmg in pve even after they added in skill splits of pvp vs pve. This is complete foolishness and a real lack of any detection of balancing. Just doing things at random and see how it randomly effects other parts of the game. This game is not updated fast enofe for this type of balancing to ever work. > > > > > > Meteor is completely a damage skill. Here is a "just happened 20 minutes ago" event. JQ taking Wild Creek. I am on the only treb near lords room trying to destroy the catas in the cata spot. I would say maybe a tenth of a second after the red aoe circle went up for meteor, I hit F to get off the treb and blink to get the hell out of the way...I had already taken my second hit by the time I was "off" the treb. 10k+ each hit and it also destroyed the treb that had been at full health. I literally would have needed them to whisper me first to say "I am about to cast" to not be downed and subsequently killed by successive hits (which reset on downing, so they were back to full damage after I went down). Sure, it may be good to use it as an area of denial skill, but don't BS anyone...it is a damage skill, it kills in 2 hits (which can happen in under a second) and it destroys all siege it touches in a single cast (usually only 2 hits needed). > > > > Then it was a badly placed treb. I do not know what to tell you but Meteor is an aoe control spell it controls that aoe with dmg if some one stands in it they should be pushed not reward by taking less dmg. There is no reason for it to lose dmg per hit on a target over time in wvw or spvp it should only effect pve. The fact that there was a skill split and some skills are still split yet they are unwilling to do this with Meteor show a lot of disconnected of Anet and there balancing teams. > > > > Its great it dose more dmg on the first 2 hits and it will down ppl not kill them something that is easy to fix and easy to counter for the ppl getting hit by the Meteor. The ele is never going to be able to deal with these counters and will do less dmg to these players over all because of this update REAL dmg as in dmg that downs and kills not just dmg that is quickly healed away. > > Did you really just say that it controls by doing damage? That makes every skill in the game a control skill. If you stand in this spot while I hit backstab you will die, therefore, you should just move. Uh, that makes it a damage skill, not control. Stuns, fear, knockdowns...those are "control" skills. Meteor is a oversized aoe damage that now hits far too hard for it's radius in just the first two ticks of the damage cycle. No only pAoE can control AoE or areas. You make ppl move or pay for standing still or lock off there movement chose for an area. Meteor use to be a scary ring of big death that you must not sit in but now you simply need to power though the first hits of it and your group is good in effect barrier is a hard counter to meteor. No one realty brought up this new problem with Meteor is you need to have nearly or comply 100% crit rate at the start of Meteor or your dmg will have a MASSIVE lost. If your Meteor on the first hit of a person dose not crit you lose a lot of dmg if it dose not crit on the 2ed hit your Meteor is effectually nerfed for any hit after. Ele use to be able to get by with 37% crit rates 57% with fury (something that is harder for the ele to pull off now due to arcain changes and criting to get more crits is by no means a full replacement). Now do we need to have 70+% base with 90% when you have fury or do you need 80% or even 100% all the time to make sure that you do not have massive lost in dmg due to it losing dmg per hit. What about classes who stop crit all together this comply destroys any real dmg from Meteor. What seems to be comply lose here is ele was a flawed class to start with this only makes things far worst. Added note that realty needs to be pointed out. If you where downing ppl in 2 shots with Meteor before your still downing them in 2 shots after 23% on the first hit and 13% on the 2ed hit not going to down ppl any faster or slower the dmg or buff on the first 2 hits means nothing at all. Now you just lose dmg after the 3ed hit making ele weaker vs downed players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dralor.3701 Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 So OP still wants them to revert a buff or what’s going on here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ubi.4136 Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 > @"Jski.6180" said: > Added note that realty needs to be pointed out. If you where downing ppl in 2 shots with Meteor before your still downing them in 2 shots after 23% on the first hit and 13% on the 2ed hit not going to down ppl any faster or slower the dmg or buff on the first 2 hits means nothing at all. Now you just lose dmg after the 3ed hit making ele weaker vs downed players. They are NOT weaker vs downed players. The game treats the downed player as a "NEW" target, so it goes back to full damage. No aoe damage skill in the game should destroy full health superior siege in 2 hits...that's broken. Just like no aoe damage skill in the game should be able to hit ANYTHING inside a tower on the back of the stairs. That is the problem. It is unlikely they will change the radius since it has been that way since launch, they need to revert the damage because it is currently broken and prevents wall defense completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ubi.4136 Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 Yeah, not sure if the number of hits are bugged, but this is the 4th encounter in a row where meteor hits me 3 times in under a second. Every time, red aoe circle goes up, already hit 3 times and downed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mini Crinny.6190 Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 > @"Dralor.3701" said: > So OP still wants them to revert a buff or what’s going on here? I think he quit lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mini Crinny.6190 Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 I think people need to remember this is WvW not PvE therefore this change actually buffed MS take your PvE QQ elsewhere! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirnale.5914 Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 It's both a buff and nerf at the same time. This is what I conclude after some testing in WvW: Buff: 1. Overall more damage against a mobile group, because only the first few hits matters here. Could straight up downstate lower armor players. Nerf: 1. Less damage against downstates. 2. Less damage against people who rezz downstates and stays there longer than 2 hits (especially firebrand supported by scourge barrier). 3. Less damage against lords, sieges. Lord is a factor, because it would take you longer to cap a "hard to siege" T3 Keep or SM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steki.1478 Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 > @"Kirnale.5914" said: > It's both a buff and nerf at the same time. This is what I conclude after some testing in WvW: > > Buff: > 1. Overall more damage against a mobile group, because only the first few hits matters here. Could straight up downstate lower armor players. > > Nerf: > 1. Less damage against downstates. > 2. Less damage against people who rezz downstates and stays there longer than 2 hits (especially firebrand supported by scourge barrier). > 3. Less damage against lords, sieges. Lord is a factor, because it would take you longer to cap a "hard to siege" T3 Keep or SM > > This. Whether it's a buff in one scenario or a nerf in another, it's a change that meteors didnt **need** at all in wvw. It was a perfectly balanced skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odinens.5920 Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 I'm not reading through all of these comments, but I will say this - everyone here that wants MS nerffed should go and actually play a Weaver in WvW. Are any of you even aware how often a weaver gets a full MS cast off, especially in a fight? Not very. It's not a skill that's easy to use because of its long cast time that plants the player in place. I'm not saying it needed the change, but I'm also not saying it needs a nerf. It does, however, help the Weaver player somewhat by not having to stand in place for so long to have more of its damage hit, which is a little helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawdler.8521 Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 > @"Odinens.5920" said: > I'm not reading through all of these comments, but I will say this - everyone here that wants MS nerffed should go and actually play a Weaver in WvW. Are any of you even aware how often a weaver gets a full MS cast off, especially in a fight? Not very. It's not a skill that's easy to use because of its long cast time that plants the player in place. > > I'm not saying it needed the change, but I'm also not saying it needs a nerf. It does, however, help the Weaver player somewhat by not having to stand in place for so long to have more of its damage hit, which is a little helpful. Except that every ele with half a brain will abuse the meteor shower and quarter-channel it. If it actually *did* plant the player in place for the **entire** duration of the channel, I'd agree with you. It doesnt. Your point is moot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odinens.5920 Posted May 16, 2018 Share Posted May 16, 2018 > @"Dawdler.8521" said: > Except that every ele with half a brain will abuse the meteor shower and quarter-channel it. If it actually *did* plant the player in place for the **entire** duration of the channel, I'd agree with you. It doesnt. Your point is moot. If MS had a spammy CD, like, I don't know, Sand Shade (.5s), you may have a reason to say "playing" the system to get a full MS off is abusable. But, I'm sorry, a 30s CD and a 3.75s cast time, regardless if you are "playing" the system get that full MS, can hardly be called "abuse." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MithranArkanere.8957 Posted May 16, 2018 Share Posted May 16, 2018 This was not a nerf. It no longer has an internal cooldown against PvE targets (not **in** pve but **against** PvE), which means that the decrease in damage as it goes on doesn't matter if all hits can land, because they overall damage is still higher. It's also hitting much harder on the initial hit per target, not per pulse. That means more damage against larger collision boxes and against waves of enemies that move in and out of the area. How can a nerf be reverted when it isn't a nerf at all? > @"Ubi.4136" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"Ubi.4136" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > @"Ubi.4136" said: > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > @"Ubi.4136" said: > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Ubi.4136" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Roxanne.6140" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ubi.4136" said: > > > > > > > > > > > It's definitely a huge buff that needs to be reverted in wvw. First, it shouldn't be able to hit nearly all of the stairs in a tower (and every inch of every wall). But, Anet doesn't give a kitten and wants blobs to be able to mow down towers fast. But, it kills 100% health superior arrow carts in 2 hits...this is definitely not ok. > > > > > > > > > > > They need to make it reflectable. If they can nearly instakill EVERYTHING on a wall in 1 cast, than a mesmer hitting them with feedback mid cast should put the damage back on them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's actually only scraping the surface of why Weaver is a subpar damage class when compared to scourge. The meteor has a long cast time and falls slowly which is weird given how large a meteor is, I was expecting to fall faster. Most of the time ppl can just walk away from it and not get hit at all. Hitting with weaver's damage skill is even situational. And when Weaver does generate downs, they are often in random clumps which his ally zerg cannot capitalise on. So there is often the situation that the Weaver is generating downs but his zerg is still losing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But they don't have to finish the cast to get damage, and now the first 2 hits are enough to destroy a full health superior AC or balista. The aoe is large enough that it takes 2 full dodges to get out and you can get hit, dodge, get hit and already be dead (usually cause all the scourges kitten on the wall). It's not the only problem, but they should revert the change to meteor and then nerf it's radius, cause it should NOT be able to hit the back of the stairs, that makes the wall useless. (they also need to fix scourge and rev abilities that ignore LOS and can hit/kill people on siege inside, but that is for another thread). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or you just block most of the dmg and heal every bit that your taking or have barrier simply stop all the dmg. MS is a pure dmg skill with out any real effects to deal with so many hard counters to it (more of a flaw of the class then the skill). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cause "every" class has endless blocks and barriers. Oh wait, they don't. Defending a tower, usually outnumbered (cause blob servers are allowed to stay in lower tiers than they should be in). Trying to take out shield gens or "anything". The red circle is up and you have been hit once before you can even get off the siege piece. You attempt to dodge away and are already downed (combination of the radius of the aoe, the tons of scourge wall spam and the lag that accompanies large blobs). Even in a full zerk spec (and the scourge circles of doom) I never had a problem staying on siege and using it, hopping off an AC when meteor was casting, and hopping back on (before the skill change). Never downed, and it would take the Ele 3 casting rounds to remove a siege piece (exposing them usually to being killed or at least making them run). Now, they can cast half of meteor, cancel and run away, it will kill superior AC's that were full health and me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They should have reduced the radius years ago, but making the first 2 hits destroy nearly 100% of siege by itself is overpowered. > > > > > > > > > > > > They do because its all aoe blocks / barrier why do you think the wvw meta is a 2 class scorge and FB that all you need to deal with dmg and all you need to do dmg. If the siege is placed right MS will never hit it you use fire signet to hit the hard to reach siege but i think that a bug more then intended. > > > > > > > > > > So, the 1 person sentry in a tower has access to all the aoe blocks that the meta 5 man has access too? Interesting. Or, maybe the 1 or 2 stragglers that get in past the 50 man blob also have access to all the 5 man meta abilities. The point is that the skill has a ridiculous radius for being able to take out all wall siege in 2 hits (which isn't even the full cast). Meteor can hit EVERY inch of nearly every wall in the game, including siege placed at the back of stairs nearly floating on air. > > > > > > > > Right 1 person has access to a block that means the 4 other ppl in that pt dose too. At the same time barrier and realty all dmg -% tend to be a front loaded effect where the MS is going to do most of its dmg but because of all this anty dmg your MS will start to do less dmg just as there dmg reduction and support falls off. It just dose not work out well for the ele but it works out well for every one else. > > > > > > > > Meteor hits 3 targets per rock if it dose 24 times. This is comply out of the control of the ele who gets hit or how many times they are hit or even when they are hit. You dont even have the ability to speed up this hit as ele dose not have quickness other players are in more control over the timing of the rock fall then the ele it self because of this. > > > > > > > > Meteor is not a dmg skill it is a AoE control skill like most of staff skills. To drop its dmg over time weakens its effect for an AoE control. All of this because its doing too much dmg in pve even after they added in skill splits of pvp vs pve. This is complete foolishness and a real lack of any detection of balancing. Just doing things at random and see how it randomly effects other parts of the game. This game is not updated fast enofe for this type of balancing to ever work. > > > > > > Meteor is completely a damage skill. Here is a "just happened 20 minutes ago" event. JQ taking Wild Creek. I am on the only treb near lords room trying to destroy the catas in the cata spot. I would say maybe a tenth of a second after the red aoe circle went up for meteor, I hit F to get off the treb and blink to get the hell out of the way...I had already taken my second hit by the time I was "off" the treb. 10k+ each hit and it also destroyed the treb that had been at full health. I literally would have needed them to whisper me first to say "I am about to cast" to not be downed and subsequently killed by successive hits (which reset on downing, so they were back to full damage after I went down). Sure, it may be good to use it as an area of denial skill, but don't BS anyone...it is a damage skill, it kills in 2 hits (which can happen in under a second) and it destroys all siege it touches in a single cast (usually only 2 hits needed). > > > > Then it was a badly placed treb. I do not know what to tell you but Meteor is an aoe control spell it controls that aoe with dmg if some one stands in it they should be pushed not reward by taking less dmg. There is no reason for it to lose dmg per hit on a target over time in wvw or spvp it should only effect pve. The fact that there was a skill split and some skills are still split yet they are unwilling to do this with Meteor show a lot of disconnected of Anet and there balancing teams. > > > > Its great it dose more dmg on the first 2 hits and it will down ppl not kill them something that is easy to fix and easy to counter for the ppl getting hit by the Meteor. The ele is never going to be able to deal with these counters and will do less dmg to these players over all because of this update REAL dmg as in dmg that downs and kills not just dmg that is quickly healed away. > > Did you really just say that it controls by doing damage? That makes every skill in the game a control skill. If you stand in this spot while I hit backstab you will die, therefore, you should just move. Uh, that makes it a damage skill, not control. Stuns, fear, knockdowns...those are "control" skills. Meteor is a oversized aoe damage that now hits far too hard for it's radius in just the first two ticks of the damage cycle. Not at all. For a damage skill to have a control component when it only does damage, it needs to have a lot of pulses and a lot of damage, to discourage staying in the area. Any skill that strongly discourages staying in a spot has that control component. The harder it is to stay inside without consequences, the better it works as a deterrent, and the more control it provides. You see this all the time in WvW when a gate goes down and people spam the entrance with AoEs. That isn't meant to kill people because only an idiot that doesn't even qualify as "people" would run into that without something like invulnerability or endure pain only to instantly go down. That's meant to deter people from entering, and gain time to build an extra arrow cart or two before they come in. Unfortunately, this doesn't work at all against AI in this game since it hardly ever considers scattering outside AoE. Meteor is still mostly a damage skill, but it has that bit of control component to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jski.6180 Posted May 16, 2018 Share Posted May 16, 2018 > @"MithranArkanere.8957" said: > This was not a nerf. It no longer has an internal cooldown against PvE targets (not **in** pve but **against** PvE), which means that the decrease in damage as it goes on doesn't matter if all hits can land, because they overall damage is still higher. It's also hitting much harder on the initial hit per target, not per pulse. > > That means more damage against larger collision boxes and against waves of enemies that move in and out of the area. > > How can a nerf be reverted when it isn't a nerf at all? > > > @"Ubi.4136" said: > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > @"Ubi.4136" said: > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > @"Ubi.4136" said: > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > @"Ubi.4136" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Ubi.4136" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Roxanne.6140" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ubi.4136" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > It's definitely a huge buff that needs to be reverted in wvw. First, it shouldn't be able to hit nearly all of the stairs in a tower (and every inch of every wall). But, Anet doesn't give a kitten and wants blobs to be able to mow down towers fast. But, it kills 100% health superior arrow carts in 2 hits...this is definitely not ok. > > > > > > > > > > > > They need to make it reflectable. If they can nearly instakill EVERYTHING on a wall in 1 cast, than a mesmer hitting them with feedback mid cast should put the damage back on them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's actually only scraping the surface of why Weaver is a subpar damage class when compared to scourge. The meteor has a long cast time and falls slowly which is weird given how large a meteor is, I was expecting to fall faster. Most of the time ppl can just walk away from it and not get hit at all. Hitting with weaver's damage skill is even situational. And when Weaver does generate downs, they are often in random clumps which his ally zerg cannot capitalise on. So there is often the situation that the Weaver is generating downs but his zerg is still losing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But they don't have to finish the cast to get damage, and now the first 2 hits are enough to destroy a full health superior AC or balista. The aoe is large enough that it takes 2 full dodges to get out and you can get hit, dodge, get hit and already be dead (usually cause all the scourges kitten on the wall). It's not the only problem, but they should revert the change to meteor and then nerf it's radius, cause it should NOT be able to hit the back of the stairs, that makes the wall useless. (they also need to fix scourge and rev abilities that ignore LOS and can hit/kill people on siege inside, but that is for another thread). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or you just block most of the dmg and heal every bit that your taking or have barrier simply stop all the dmg. MS is a pure dmg skill with out any real effects to deal with so many hard counters to it (more of a flaw of the class then the skill). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cause "every" class has endless blocks and barriers. Oh wait, they don't. Defending a tower, usually outnumbered (cause blob servers are allowed to stay in lower tiers than they should be in). Trying to take out shield gens or "anything". The red circle is up and you have been hit once before you can even get off the siege piece. You attempt to dodge away and are already downed (combination of the radius of the aoe, the tons of scourge wall spam and the lag that accompanies large blobs). Even in a full zerk spec (and the scourge circles of doom) I never had a problem staying on siege and using it, hopping off an AC when meteor was casting, and hopping back on (before the skill change). Never downed, and it would take the Ele 3 casting rounds to remove a siege piece (exposing them usually to being killed or at least making them run). Now, they can cast half of meteor, cancel and run away, it will kill superior AC's that were full health and me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They should have reduced the radius years ago, but making the first 2 hits destroy nearly 100% of siege by itself is overpowered. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They do because its all aoe blocks / barrier why do you think the wvw meta is a 2 class scorge and FB that all you need to deal with dmg and all you need to do dmg. If the siege is placed right MS will never hit it you use fire signet to hit the hard to reach siege but i think that a bug more then intended. > > > > > > > > > > > > So, the 1 person sentry in a tower has access to all the aoe blocks that the meta 5 man has access too? Interesting. Or, maybe the 1 or 2 stragglers that get in past the 50 man blob also have access to all the 5 man meta abilities. The point is that the skill has a ridiculous radius for being able to take out all wall siege in 2 hits (which isn't even the full cast). Meteor can hit EVERY inch of nearly every wall in the game, including siege placed at the back of stairs nearly floating on air. > > > > > > > > > > Right 1 person has access to a block that means the 4 other ppl in that pt dose too. At the same time barrier and realty all dmg -% tend to be a front loaded effect where the MS is going to do most of its dmg but because of all this anty dmg your MS will start to do less dmg just as there dmg reduction and support falls off. It just dose not work out well for the ele but it works out well for every one else. > > > > > > > > > > Meteor hits 3 targets per rock if it dose 24 times. This is comply out of the control of the ele who gets hit or how many times they are hit or even when they are hit. You dont even have the ability to speed up this hit as ele dose not have quickness other players are in more control over the timing of the rock fall then the ele it self because of this. > > > > > > > > > > Meteor is not a dmg skill it is a AoE control skill like most of staff skills. To drop its dmg over time weakens its effect for an AoE control. All of this because its doing too much dmg in pve even after they added in skill splits of pvp vs pve. This is complete foolishness and a real lack of any detection of balancing. Just doing things at random and see how it randomly effects other parts of the game. This game is not updated fast enofe for this type of balancing to ever work. > > > > > > > > Meteor is completely a damage skill. Here is a "just happened 20 minutes ago" event. JQ taking Wild Creek. I am on the only treb near lords room trying to destroy the catas in the cata spot. I would say maybe a tenth of a second after the red aoe circle went up for meteor, I hit F to get off the treb and blink to get the hell out of the way...I had already taken my second hit by the time I was "off" the treb. 10k+ each hit and it also destroyed the treb that had been at full health. I literally would have needed them to whisper me first to say "I am about to cast" to not be downed and subsequently killed by successive hits (which reset on downing, so they were back to full damage after I went down). Sure, it may be good to use it as an area of denial skill, but don't BS anyone...it is a damage skill, it kills in 2 hits (which can happen in under a second) and it destroys all siege it touches in a single cast (usually only 2 hits needed). > > > > > > Then it was a badly placed treb. I do not know what to tell you but Meteor is an aoe control spell it controls that aoe with dmg if some one stands in it they should be pushed not reward by taking less dmg. There is no reason for it to lose dmg per hit on a target over time in wvw or spvp it should only effect pve. The fact that there was a skill split and some skills are still split yet they are unwilling to do this with Meteor show a lot of disconnected of Anet and there balancing teams. > > > > > > Its great it dose more dmg on the first 2 hits and it will down ppl not kill them something that is easy to fix and easy to counter for the ppl getting hit by the Meteor. The ele is never going to be able to deal with these counters and will do less dmg to these players over all because of this update REAL dmg as in dmg that downs and kills not just dmg that is quickly healed away. > > > > Did you really just say that it controls by doing damage? That makes every skill in the game a control skill. If you stand in this spot while I hit backstab you will die, therefore, you should just move. Uh, that makes it a damage skill, not control. Stuns, fear, knockdowns...those are "control" skills. Meteor is a oversized aoe damage that now hits far too hard for it's radius in just the first two ticks of the damage cycle. > > Not at all. For a damage skill to have a control component when it only does damage, it needs to have a lot of pulses and a lot of damage, to discourage staying in the area. Any skill that strongly discourages staying in a spot has that control component. The harder it is to stay inside without consequences, the better it works as a deterrent, and the more control it provides. > You see this all the time in WvW when a gate goes down and people spam the entrance with AoEs. That isn't meant to kill people because only an idiot that doesn't even qualify as "people" would run into that without something like invulnerability or endure pain only to instantly go down. That's meant to deter people from entering, and gain time to build an extra arrow cart or two before they come in. > Unfortunately, this doesn't work at all against AI in this game since it hardly ever considers scattering outside AoE. > > Meteor is still mostly a damage skill, but it has that bit of control component to it. Its dmg is no longer nerfed vs pve targets only it now is both player targets and npc targets (the removal of icd vs pve targets) its first few hits are stronger but they are pointlessly so. If you where downing ppl in 2 shots before the changes your still downing ppl in 2 shots after as most glass builds where doing. Now your just going to lose dmg over time as ppl stand in your effect with high support of both healing and barriers. Not only that now if you do not land your crits on the first 2 hits you will have massive dmg lost this means boons on your ele are all the more important mostly fury might to a point and quickness is nearly worthless. Anet has removed fury on the first hit from ele kit with the move from fury from swaps in arcain to fury on crit in air. There still fire blasting fury but that a full GM for a lesser boon that is giving out at a perma level from many classes. Meteor did not need more dmg and adding more dmg dose not make the skill any better. Meteor needs other effects in a pvp environment like counter dmg mitigation OR even soft / hard cc (it use to have chill on hit with the old GoEP but that got nerfed too because of pve). Ele is the best example of what happens when an mmorpg balancing team has no real leadership and communication between the different teams. Anet is coming off as many hands not talking to each other and with out a head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mini Crinny.6190 Posted May 16, 2018 Share Posted May 16, 2018 https://imgur.com/j5SVzx6 This was a handful of damage that my MS hit for.. (There was alot more hits than this.) but the damage it does is awesome so for me, i'm happy with the change in WvW :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jski.6180 Posted May 16, 2018 Share Posted May 16, 2018 > @"Mini Crinny.6190" said: > https://imgur.com/j5SVzx6 > > This was a handful of damage that my MS hit for.. (There was alot more hits than this.) but the damage it does is awesome so for me, i'm happy with the change in WvW :) Ewww i hate to see any thing lower then 6k on MS. Your pix lacks context though. What your boon what the other ppl boon debuff etc.. there a lot lost with just number pic. You may be able to pull off big dmg and its fun to see but are you downing ppl who are the same size or bigger then your group? Are you doing real dmg and not just superficial dmg? That the reason why scorge is played so much more then ele these days because scorge dose real dmg with lots of effects added to it as well as being much harder to deal with over all and ele tends to do superficial number dmg that looks good but realy dose not do all that much in a fight vs real groups. Weaver made max dmg super high but at the cost of reliability or both the weaver dmg and core eles dmg (tempest too). This is a nerf with numbers blinding most eles into thinking this is a buff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ubi.4136 Posted May 16, 2018 Share Posted May 16, 2018 It has a 3.75 second cast time. But, an ele can walk up and channel 1 second of the cast time and get interrupted or walk away and still 1 shot all siege in the stupidly large radius meteor shower has. It isn't "controlling" the area it is hitting, it isn't being used as a "control" skill, it is being used by zergs to instantly down everyone on the wall and stairs and destroy all wall siege in a single cast. The first 2 hits land in a fraction of a second after the red aoe circle goes up, so if you are on a perfectly placed arrow cart, see the red circle go up, you and the arrow cart are already dead. The damage and the radius are broken because the counterplay to it is to have a larger zerg that prevents them from even getting to the wall. At least before the patch, it would take more than one cast to destroy all siege (allowing time to counter) and there was no chance you were going to be downed because the first 2 hits wouldn't kill you, you just had to be super fast getting off the siege and out of the way. With the new change, it's broken. Edit - added note: The meteors will only fall within the limits of the map where player characters would be able to be (e.g: They won't fall on a slope a player can't climb or slide down from above). This can be used to narrow the spread and increase the effective damage of the skill....from the wiki, Most of the radius of the aoe is over the wall edges where players can't stand, so all of the hits are hitting the small area of the wall making it ridiculously powerful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jski.6180 Posted May 19, 2018 Share Posted May 19, 2018 > @"Ubi.4136" said: > It has a 3.75 second cast time. But, an ele can walk up and channel 1 second of the cast time and get interrupted or walk away and still 1 shot all siege in the stupidly large radius meteor shower has. It isn't "controlling" the area it is hitting, it isn't being used as a "control" skill, it is being used by zergs to instantly down everyone on the wall and stairs and destroy all wall siege in a single cast. The first 2 hits land in a fraction of a second after the red aoe circle goes up, so if you are on a perfectly placed arrow cart, see the red circle go up, you and the arrow cart are already dead. > > The damage and the radius are broken because the counterplay to it is to have a larger zerg that prevents them from even getting to the wall. At least before the patch, it would take more than one cast to destroy all siege (allowing time to counter) and there was no chance you were going to be downed because the first 2 hits wouldn't kill you, you just had to be super fast getting off the siege and out of the way. With the new change, it's broken. > > Edit - added note: The meteors will only fall within the limits of the map where player characters would be able to be (e.g: They won't fall on a slope a player can't climb or slide down from above). This can be used to narrow the spread and increase the effective damage of the skill....from the wiki, > > Most of the radius of the aoe is over the wall edges where players can't stand, so all of the hits are hitting the small area of the wall making it ridiculously powerful. That a problem with the skill in it self if your not going to do a full channel you should not hit as hard with it. No one should reward you for getting interrupted from a skill if its from chose or from a players skill. Controlling is more then stopping a player from controlling what they do or slowing them down in one way or another its about making them not want to go into a big ring of death. Your controlling them by making them play in such a way its the best type of cc in a pvp game then the "you cant play for x sec" type of control. Your not getting these hits on AC if rng is not on your side more so if you do not channel your spell longer then 1 sec (all though that is about 1/3 of its cast and 1 sec is a long time to cast something when you cant move during the cast). So its less to do with the time of the channel but how you channel the spell its one of the few root cast a hold over from the base game and a major example of just how out dated ele is as a class in this game. The update is only about pve and the update before that was about pve too there no though to wvw at all here. If there was then the skill would be split for pvp vs pve as they have a tool set to do these things and something they did not 3 months ago. I know anet is bad at abandoning content and ideals before they hit there "useful" point but anet is not that bad (at least i hope they are not that bad). Non line of sight skills are far better at counter siege then meteor will ever be as these skills can be used on the move meteor can not. Its about how you cast not how long you cast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odinens.5920 Posted May 19, 2018 Share Posted May 19, 2018 If people are being downed with the 1st tick of MS then I think they need to re-evaluate their play, gear, builds, whatever. Even on my Weaver I don't get downed with that 1st tick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now