Dralor.3701 Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > @"Dralor.3701" said: > > Imo in a perfect world they nerf stealth/invis but compensate thief somehow. > > more evades and stealth attacks usable during evade? oh wait that was the other class.. Well hopefully not that as that class is both ridiculous and the most frustrating thing to play against. But maybe some reasonable form of survivability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dralor.3701 Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 Very few of them play WvW or Spvp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaqueFyre.5678 Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 > @"Dami.5046" said: > yes, yes the three times yes. I have never played a game that at least some professions didn't have a skill that could see thru 'hide/stealth, even for a few seconds. I don't even mean a counter, a bone fide ' i can see you skill ' The Majority of classes have skills which apply the Reveal Debuff which removes stealth and stops the gaining of stealth outside of one elite with a decent cast time..... so the game has skills that counter and reveals stealth players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dralor.3701 Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > > @"Dami.5046" said: > > yes, yes the three times yes. I have never played a game that at least some professions didn't have a skill that could see thru 'hide/stealth, even for a few seconds. I don't even mean a counter, a bone fide ' i can see you skill ' > > The Majority of classes have skills which apply the Reveal Debuff which removes stealth and stops the gaining of stealth outside of one elite with a decent cast time..... so the game has skills that counter and reveals stealth players Please define majority? I can only think of a few who get a reveal debuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaqueFyre.5678 Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 > @"Dralor.3701" said: > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > > > @"Dami.5046" said: > > > yes, yes the three times yes. I have never played a game that at least some professions didn't have a skill that could see thru 'hide/stealth, even for a few seconds. I don't even mean a counter, a bone fide ' i can see you skill ' > > > > The Majority of classes have skills which apply the Reveal Debuff which removes stealth and stops the gaining of stealth outside of one elite with a decent cast time..... so the game has skills that counter and reveals stealth players > > Please define majority? I can only think of a few who get a reveal debuff. 6 out of 9 classes have access to abilities that apply Revealed debuff to others, idk simple math And definition of majority shows that’s the majority.... ie more than half the classes. But again those pesky facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turk.5460 Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > > > > if he camps stealth he will be long in stealth wich means your cooldowns will be up again. if he uses shadowstep every time that is on 50s cd base or reduced 40s so enough time to recover. if he goes in and out of stealth quickly, then you should be able to counter preassure as thieves also do have cooldowns on escape skills. > > > > > > > > > > > > there is no way to **force** him not to stalk you forver, same as there is no way to force a zerg comming towards you to line up and 1 on 1, one after the other. if the person is doing that all the time you are online and transfers to keep following you tho, then report. > > > > > > > > > > > > sure it might be annoying, but it is not strong. stealth wont kill you , a oneshot might but those are two seperate things. > > > > > > > > > > > > the recent patch to DE pushes them not to remain in stealth and stalk but to attack and gives them more safety doing it, while stealthed malice gain was nerfed alot. but it doesnt take stealth away from them, just makes them less of a thread when stealthed. wich is good. now i can play a build that can still infiltrate keeps without worry about anti stealth trap spamm and without the need to go for a oneshot gimmick. i personally havent seen a deadeye even trying to stealth camp since patch, apart from my self. and i run into alot of them , probably people testing stuff. try playing it yourself and see how stupid it is with the new patch to stalk a target you will have a hard time not feeling useless thats far from strong. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yes stealth kills me because they can engage and disengage whenever it fits them, so i get kited to death easily, with almost no counterplay to.it, except luckily oneshotting them, which is no real counterplay at all > > > > it is not stealth that kills you, because while they stealth you regain resources, cooldowns, endurance, hp etc. > > > > if i just engage, dont disengage with stealth but kill you on first engage, then you got a better chance i guess? i would probably need to spamm some evades or invuln or what ever in that time so you feel like you got a chance , because you are fighting back! > > > > i killed way more people while they were stealthed then while they were invuln / evading. > > > > > and to your keep infiltrating stuff, that kitten is bs aswell, no one should be able to be unseen in a keep for that long, they know you are there, they cant fight you 1v1 rly, so there have to be multiple ppl in that keep, looking for some single cancerous thief so he cant flip the objectiv, drawing multiple ppl from the zerg or get them so bored that they commit suicide and you can flip the objective on purpose. there is no argument that would legitimate that kind of gameplay, thats just dumb > > > > > > > > > yes i know i should not be able to bother more then 1 person at a time, thats why those roaming guilds allways keep ganking solo roamers, wich pushed me to play with more and more escape potential, till i now can escape even zergs in their keeps. thats very cancerous of those roaming guilds. > > > > > stealth is one of the main reasons ive almost completely stopped roaming and thus almost completely stopped playing this game, because wvw is the only mode i play and only playing in a zerg gets boring quick > > > > people grouping up to outnumber other roamers is the reason i took a few breaks, then i started to stealth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ive read your regaining resources while thief is stealthed argument the first time dude, and its absolute BS, nobody can gain that much health back while not using high cd skills, i WILL have stuff on cd if i got bursted like that, its not like the thief needs to stay in stealth for 30-40sec, he just needs it to gain some distance and come at me again after my defensive stuff ran out > > > > resources mean either some hp if you have regeneration still up or passive heal skills / traits and cooldowns, every second they are gone your cooldowns come closer to be ready again. same for the thief. > > now if the thief doesnt need as much time to recover all his cooldowns / hp etc. that means the thief needs too low resources to heal , deal damage, cc or escape. or it means your vulnerability windows are too long as the they are longer then the thief needs to recover, that can either be you having too long cooldowns or wasting too much per engage of the thief. > > for example thief vs warrior: > > if warrior is terrible, the thief will kill him on 1. engage. if the warrior is average then maybe on 2nd or 3rd. if the warrior is good it will either be endless or till either side makes a mistake. > > most people that die to this poking playstyle (and no you do not need stealth for it, you can aswell do that with mobility) do so because they invest too much in one of the engages wich leaves them vulnerable for the next. > > > > but all this is not a stealth issue, you dont need stealth to reset and reengage. every thief build that does not have near infite evades is doing this or the thief will lose any encounter. > > ...are you serious...ok its not stealth alone, izs the fact that they got stealth, INSANE mobility, incredible amounts of dodges, blinds and burst > a class with that much stealth should have a drawback atleast in mobility, it cant be that someone can easily run away from 4 or 5 ppl, nobody should be able to do that, if 5ppl rly want you dead you should be dead, atleast when you were in melee range once, ofc not when they are still 1500 range away, but when you get melee and 5 ppl decide to chase you, you should be a deadman walking, you dont even rly have to juke them with stealth, because of the mobility, remobe stealth, or mobility, both is just too much honestly, its just frustrating to play against that cancerous playstyle DE has an incredible amount of dodges? More than other professions? I mean...maybe if you take SoA and use it's active you'll get one extra dodge every 30s... Please explain. Simply using 40% endurance regen food allows for comparable dodges from the meta Mirage and Warrior/SB builds - and Mirage dodges are *better*. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dralor.3701 Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > > @"Dralor.3701" said: > > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > > > > @"Dami.5046" said: > > > > yes, yes the three times yes. I have never played a game that at least some professions didn't have a skill that could see thru 'hide/stealth, even for a few seconds. I don't even mean a counter, a bone fide ' i can see you skill ' > > > > > > The Majority of classes have skills which apply the Reveal Debuff which removes stealth and stops the gaining of stealth outside of one elite with a decent cast time..... so the game has skills that counter and reveals stealth players > > > > Please define majority? I can only think of a few who get a reveal debuff. > > 6 out of 9 classes have access to abilities that apply Revealed debuff to others, idk simple math And definition of majority shows that’s the majority.... ie more than half the classes. > > But again those pesky facts. Don’t have to be sarcastic, just asking an honest question. Maybe I’m out of touch with all the pof stuff as I’ve only played a few of the new elites, which classes/elites have revealed debuffs now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUDse.7623 Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 > @"Dralor.3701" said: > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > > > @"Dralor.3701" said: > > > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > > > > > @"Dami.5046" said: > > > > > yes, yes the three times yes. I have never played a game that at least some professions didn't have a skill that could see thru 'hide/stealth, even for a few seconds. I don't even mean a counter, a bone fide ' i can see you skill ' > > > > > > > > The Majority of classes have skills which apply the Reveal Debuff which removes stealth and stops the gaining of stealth outside of one elite with a decent cast time..... so the game has skills that counter and reveals stealth players > > > > > > Please define majority? I can only think of a few who get a reveal debuff. > > > > 6 out of 9 classes have access to abilities that apply Revealed debuff to others, idk simple math And definition of majority shows that’s the majority.... ie more than half the classes. > > > > But again those pesky facts. > > Don’t have to be sarcastic, just asking an honest question. > > Maybe I’m out of touch with all the pof stuff as I’ve only played a few of the new elites, which classes/elites have revealed debuffs now? nekro(core) , engi(all), guard(dh), warrior(all), ranger(all) , rev(herald) and in WvW everyone with that undodgeable traps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaqueFyre.5678 Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 > @"Dralor.3701" said: > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > > > @"Dralor.3701" said: > > > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > > > > > @"Dami.5046" said: > > > > > yes, yes the three times yes. I have never played a game that at least some professions didn't have a skill that could see thru 'hide/stealth, even for a few seconds. I don't even mean a counter, a bone fide ' i can see you skill ' > > > > > > > > The Majority of classes have skills which apply the Reveal Debuff which removes stealth and stops the gaining of stealth outside of one elite with a decent cast time..... so the game has skills that counter and reveals stealth players > > > > > > Please define majority? I can only think of a few who get a reveal debuff. > > > > 6 out of 9 classes have access to abilities that apply Revealed debuff to others, idk simple math And definition of majority shows that’s the majority.... ie more than half the classes. > > > > But again those pesky facts. > > Don’t have to be sarcastic, just asking an honest question. > > Maybe I’m out of touch with all the pof stuff as I’ve only played a few of the new elites, which classes/elites have revealed debuffs now? Necro, War/SB, Eng/Scrap, DH, Ranger, Herald. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dralor.3701 Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 Weird, must have missed it when they have it to core necro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaqueFyre.5678 Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 > @"Dralor.3701" said: > Weird, must have missed it when they have it to core necro. It was added when they made all Tether skills apply reveal baseline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuscleBobBuffPants.1406 Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 I agree! Definitely something to help counter stealth more in the game. Stealth and extreme mobility always seem like a low risk high reward set up, which should be the opposite. Every time I fight someone who can stealth, I always feel like they have a get out of jail free card with no consequences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenesisII.1540 Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 They've been adding reveal skills like at least once a year now. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Revealed Spellbreaker Sight beyond Sight, PoF expansion Sep 2017 Spellbreaker Magebane Tether (trait skill), PoF expansion Sep 2017 Dragonhunter Spear of Justice, May 2017 Necromancer Tainted Shackles, May 2017 Warrior "On My Mark!", Oct 2016 Dragonhunter Light's Judgment, HoT expansion Oct 2015 Herald Gaze of Darkness, HoT expansion Oct 2015 Scrapper Detection Pulse, HoT expansion Oct 2015 Engineer Lock On (trait skill), Jun 2015 Engineer Analyze, Sep 2014 Ranger "Sic 'Em!", Oct 2013 Stealth trap, May 2013 Mesmer, elementalist, thieves, are missing on the list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clownmug.8357 Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 What perma-stealth? Didn't they just nerf that silly "turn invisible when you bend your knees" Deadeye trait? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUDse.7623 Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 > @"Clownmug.8357" said: > What perma-stealth? Didn't they just nerf that silly "turn invisible when you bend your knees" Deadeye trait? they changed it to dodge for permastealth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shining One.1635 Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 Personally, I don't have a problem with permanent stealth... if there is a sufficient sacrifice for it. If I were redesigning stealth, I'd severely nerf the existing durations and make it scale with Concentration. Thus, players who want to permastealth can still do so, but they have to sacrifice a chunk of their damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clownmug.8357 Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > @"Clownmug.8357" said: > > What perma-stealth? Didn't they just nerf that silly "turn invisible when you bend your knees" Deadeye trait? > > they changed it to dodge for permastealth. Is that any better than Bound + Blackpowder combo though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUDse.7623 Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 > @"Clownmug.8357" said: > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > @"Clownmug.8357" said: > > > What perma-stealth? Didn't they just nerf that silly "turn invisible when you bend your knees" Deadeye trait? > > > > they changed it to dodge for permastealth. > > Is that any better than Bound + Blackpowder combo though? yes bound + blackpowder will reveal you if you hit something and the blackpowder can be seen. you dont see a dodge of an invisible opponent and it doesnt selfreveal as no hits. also deadeye gets 4s stealth per dodge, 3s per bound so need more endurance for bound ontop of ini cost for black powder. > @"Shining One.1635" said: > Personally, I don't have a problem with permanent stealth... if there is a sufficient sacrifice for it. If I were redesigning stealth, I'd severely nerf the existing durations and make it scale with Concentration. Thus, players who want to permastealth can still do so, but they have to sacrifice a chunk of their damage. as long as you use SA, you give up alot of offensive potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig. Posted May 12, 2018 Share Posted May 12, 2018 simple solution: remove stealth from wvw. It is utterly broken. It destroys all the fun. Remove it and be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Pj.2193 Posted May 12, 2018 Share Posted May 12, 2018 > @"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said: > simple solution: remove stealth from wvw. > > It is utterly broken. It destroys all the fun. Remove it and be done. So then, what new class will you introduce for thief? Or how long do you want the Devs to focus on a whole class rebuild from the ground up? In sure you like the state of the game in every other area. No worries about needing to put most development in hold while they either create a whole new class, or, create a whole new thief from ground up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig. Posted May 12, 2018 Share Posted May 12, 2018 new class? rebuild? not needed at all. Thieves can do enough stuff without stealth. Just remove it. Done. Or are you implying that thief players can only do anything, when they are invisible and their devastating attacks are unblockable? That they are THAT bad? Surely not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Pj.2193 Posted May 12, 2018 Share Posted May 12, 2018 > @"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said: > new class? rebuild? not needed at all. > > Thieves can do enough stuff without stealth. Just remove it. Done. Or are you implying that thief players can only do anything, when they are invisible and their devastating attacks are unblockable? That they are THAT bad? > > Surely not? Of course. However, while traitlines are developed around it, have you never played the class? Skills and attacks are built around it as well. But you of course know that. So, should we keep the really helpful hyperbole up? Or...., Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUDse.7623 Posted May 12, 2018 Share Posted May 12, 2018 > @"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said: > new class? rebuild? not needed at all. > > Thieves can do enough stuff without stealth. Just remove it. Done. Or are you implying that thief players can only do anything, when they are invisible and their devastating attacks are unblockable? That they are THAT bad? > > Surely not? i would like to remove all mobility skills, this is not a racing game and would you imply that all the people using them cannot do without them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig. Posted May 12, 2018 Share Posted May 12, 2018 I am fine with mobility skills being removed. would hurt thieves more than anyone else. No shadowstep? Yeah.. try to sell that to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUDse.7623 Posted May 12, 2018 Share Posted May 12, 2018 thats cool, next we remove evades , invulns and blocks. and then we just need to remove range attacks, strong cc, ... , ... , ... why not just give everyone a stick like in SAB and call that balanced ? :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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