Deadeye Rework: Feedback [Merged]

[saerni.2584]

Stolen skills shouldn’t be adding malice afaik.

[Cougre.6543]

I admit to having been mislead on that part. Yet the issues that One in the Chamber carried since the release of PoF remain.

[Kallist.5917]

One in the Chamber was amazing pre-patch if you stacked it with Peripheral vision and Fire for Effect on a Condi class, let you AOE nuke mobs with stolen skills, letting you spam conditions on groups.

[Nascull.5842]

hi guys the new deadeye specs are horrible the stealth on dodge is not nice and sniper cover was ok like it was stealth on kneel ure enmy just can see where u kneel and ure locked in place no oportunity enough to derp it ? i play alrdy 5 years thief only and i was happy with deadeye like it was on realease the only thing i like is the new stealth attacks but please remove the stealth on dodge and give back the stealth on kneel and btw anet u know there are condition thieves that cannot be targeted and pop like 8 condie while u can not even defend ureself im sur 1 of u guys is protecting condie builds go nerf that 1st before u nerf a crit build im considiring to quit the game and go back world of warcraft thief is my fav class and i wil never play other classes do something about it u guys take feedback from the players that not even play thief more then 75% of theyr playtime serieus and it destroys our thief lovers gamplay and make us unhappy that wil lead to an end game in terms of a uninstall thx for emptying my pockets for all expansions

[Stinja.9612]

The new version of deadeye is straight garbage as i feared it would be. Once again they take something that was fun and make it worse in almost every facet like what they did with S/S rev. It's flow of play feels terrible, its new skill "snipers cover" is absolutely terrible. I've just gone back to daredevil which i don't even really enjoy because of how bad the changes are. If i wanted to "base things on dodge rolls" id play daredevil not deadeye.

[Nascull.5842]

> @"Astyrah.4015" said:

> > @"Kallist.5917" said:

> > But is anyone else seeing a huge drop in damage for DJ? Hits that were doing 27K yesterday are now hitting 11K.

>

> notice that too, 36k ish DJs are now 22 to 27k might be a bug? that the 20%/stack multiplier to DJ is not being applied?

>

>

 

yep its not good thank u condie lovers anet

[Nascull.5842]

> @"Delweyn.1309" said:

> Its a big sniper nerf :) not in damages, always stupid, but in survability. (and openings)

 

yep they sold they pof expansion with a nice promise of sniper and now they got the big bucks they just change and break the promises

[Cougre.6543]

> @"Kallist.5917" said:

> One in the Chamber was amazing pre-patch if you stacked it with Peripheral vision and Fire for Effect on a Condi class, let you AOE nuke mobs with stolen skills, letting you spam conditions on groups.

How? Two thirds of the stolen skills don't cause any damaging conditions. Just because it was the best choice out of the three traits doesn't make it good.

[Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497]

> @"Stinja.9612" said:

> The new version of deadeye is straight garbage as i feared it would be. Once again they take something that was fun and make it worse in almost every facet like what they did with S/S rev. It's flow of play feels terrible, its new skill "snipers cover" is absolutely terrible. I've just gone back to daredevil which i don't even really enjoy because of how bad the changes are. If i wanted to "base things on dodge rolls" id play daredevil not deadeye.

 

I LOVE the changes. I'mma fricken force to be reckoned with in PvP now. I no longer feel like I am struggling in one on one (when disregarding the wack as fuck dagger auto attack nerf pattern) I no longer need to carry smoke screen against rangers. Can take my dual daggers and go ham at will. And I love the on demand stealth being a dodge roll. Dodge someone's attack, stealth, pop assassin's signet, swap weapons for guranteed crit backstab. Behold instadeath from a elite profession that used to be a member. I also love how snappy DJ is now. I no longer need to worry about blowing a lot of init, nor do I have to worry about reflections and aegis spam. Increased Init Regen when kneeling means I can be comfortable with not taking Trickery for a bit, and take acrobatics for survivability.

 

My only gripe is they didn't call the new snipers cover "Damn Good Ground", as you become SUUUUPER ANNOYING, and immovable with that five second projectile hate.

 

The one last thing it needs for rifle to be perfect in my opinion, is a buff to spotters shot immobility duration. The one second duration is worthless to a kneeled thief. The cripple is much better.

 

Don't think of it as sniper. Think of it as a Core thief wielding a nuclear bomb with reduced mobility and utility.

[LadyKitty.6120]

Kitty's now done some testing. She found traditional CnD+Backstab off-stealth-CD (in other words, after every 2 auto-chains) as the most effective rotation, with heartseeker-spam to load malice for powered-up Backstabs during last 25%. She pulled 28255 like that, which is about 800 more than before revamp. Sword is still an auto-attack weapon regardless of off-hand, 24426. Rifle seems to work best by spamming rifle 3 a lot 'til M7 -> rifle 3 -> evade+DJ -> rifle 3 spam 'til M3 procs again. With that, Kitty got 25168 on her cleanest pull (though she prolly could've pulled 1k more if she were more clinical, but she isn't). She'll test rest of power DE builds tomorrow.

 

Considering the nerfs to passive auras (Spotter, EA), D/D DE is a bit closer to acceptance.

[Kallist.5917]

> @"Cougre.6543" said:

> > @"Kallist.5917" said:

> > One in the Chamber was amazing pre-patch if you stacked it with Peripheral vision and Fire for Effect on a Condi class, let you AOE nuke mobs with stolen skills, letting you spam conditions on groups.

> How? Two thirds of the stolen skills don't cause any damaging conditions. Just because it was the best choice out of the three traits doesn't make it good.

 

Target Necros with Improvisation traited, Devourer Venom, Binding Shadow, Mercy, mark again, using your stolen's everytime. The 2 marks alone grant 20 bleed on an AOE.

[Bazsi.2734]

Although I heavily dislike this rework, I'm trying to give useful feedback. I'd encourage others to do so aswell!

I played in the top 100 with deadeye for 2 seasons(EU), so I like to think I have some idea of what I'm doing. After 6 hours of testing, here is my judgement: feels clunky and limited, unfit for pvp. It's partly because I have to learn deadeye all over again, but the nerfs built into the rework are undeniable:

 

- The stealth from kneeling was moved to dodgeing(only if you trait it, but thats the only trait worth taking with rifle), and it only works in combat. Tying stealth to endurance is already a huge nerf, but having to move in order to stealth further limits your options: most sniper positions are on top of pillars/narrow edges, you cant use this dodge to gain access to DJ.

- Deaths Judgement (DJ) does way less damage then before. Which in itself wouldn't be all that horrible, but with deadeyes boonremoval gone, you have to cast DJ on an enemy with protection more often then not. An unblockable 6-7K isnt worth putting myself in danger of being jumped by a revenant/daredevil etc. with the 3 second reveal.

- Having mentioned boonremoval: we went from Cursed Bullet CONVERTING 2 boons every time you stealth(every 3-4 seconds if you pushed it with cooldowns) to Binding Shadow REMOVING 2 boons every 30 seconds. And only if you take the skill... which is honestly not worth it.

- Also I'm pretty sure something buggy around reveals. Casting Binding Shadow many times revealed me, but not always. I tried on golems in the PvP lobby, sometimes it happens, sometimes it doesnt. Mabye someone can test it out to clarify, but I also had some weird reveals during fights so its possible that the reveal mechanic is bugged as a whole, not Binding Shadow. (An elementalist cant use his gyro toolbelt or his ranger shout to reveal me now can he?)

 

So after the rework, rifle deadeye does less damage, can't deal with boons, has worse positioning, a greater need to stealth due to how malice is spent now, yet less access to stealth. If I were to rate this redesign I'd give it a 'Time to play daredevil again'.

[Elxdark.9702]

**Warning** this thread isn't about how op or how trash the changes are, it's only to show personal opinions and feedback for future changes (PvP).

I know, it has been only one day but I can already tell what's good, what's wrong and what's terrible.

 

**Malice:**

Good idea, bad implementation(again) yes it's faster and what? the fact that you made it relying in ONE TRAIT is dumb.

At the moment you can get full malice in 2 attacks + mark if you take Malicious Intent so that's like 3-4 seconds, but it isn't rewarding anymore IF you don't use a certain trait.

Maleficent Seven, the fact that you removed Perfecionist and added into this trait makes it almost a must at least in pvp. Why would I take Be Quick or Be Killed? if I can get malice so fast that it doesn't make any sense to not take MS.

So if you don't take MS all you do is get full malice proc the stealth attack and you don't have initiative to repeat the same process.

If you take MS you do the same while gettings boons AND you will be able to do the same combo again because you will have enough initiative.

 

**Traits:**

good = Malicious Intent - Premeditation - Maleficent Seven

ok = Iron Sight - Be Quick or Be Killed

bad = the rest

 

**Silent scope**, revert this right now or give it a new functionality and let us stealth with kneel without traits.

It feels weird, clunky and wrong to use this trait in any situation. We lost our opener and position which are the most important things Deadeye had, it was the opener and position because otherwise it's food to anyone with a brain.

Please this is the trait that is giving me depression because it's so bad, I simply don't understand why you changed it, it was fine it didn't need anything.

Please revert it, we lost the opener and position before fight and that's a huge impact in pvp as a Deadeye unless you want us to take any stealth utility which is still not enough.

The only time this works is when you're in the middle of the fight and you get pressured, for everything else it's terrible.

 

**Rifle:**

You give us DJ intead of CB and I liked it, I mean I can actually use DJ now in pvp.

The fact we have to rely in stealth attack makes this change weird, because yeah you made it unblockable but at the same time it's so obvious and easy to dodge that most of the time you will miss it unless you're fighting bots.

Sniper's cover, its only good use is for stealth combo nothing else.

 

Stolen skills:

I'm not going to do this again because I made a whole thread about this and explained why they are inferior to Steal skills.

However the only thing I didn't understand is why you removed the malice stack scale to the best ones???? lol

 

Conclusion: Overall good patch and when I said overall is because I take in thought all the stuff not only the bad or good.

Good ideas bad execution (again) making malice rewards you relying in only one trait is bad and it hurts variety, in fact is the same we had before where every power build took Be Quick or Be Killed because everything else was worse( I don't take the one shot 20 seconds waiting on stealth as a valid build)

 

Ideas:

* One of the chamber which was the only trait that wasn't touched along with Be Quick or Be killed. Since it doesn't work with mercy and it doesn't really work in any situations, make it

" Hitting your marked target with the stolen skill gives 1 initiave normal hit + 1 malice if it crits"

* Add 200 Ferocity to Be Quick or Be Killed

* Delete Burst of Shadow ( U S E L E S S )

* Put back the new iron sight in that slot and perfecionist in the grandmaster trait.

* Payback = make it 25% or remove it because nobody will use it otherwise.

* REVERT SILENT SCOPE

 

I will try to make this work regardless at least give me 1 week if you wanna see some theorycraft then come and watch my [stream](

"stream") I will link any build there and try to make something work with this "new" elite spec.

I'm top 10 in NA btw so no I'm not silver or gold, this is plat which is still terrible but slightly better.

[TheMaskedGamer.5708]

I have found and issue while attempting to do a combo with the new Deadeye. I really enjoy the new Silent Scope trait that allows you to go to stealth after a dodge roll. Makes a great opportunity to dish out your stealth attacks immediately after. However, I've found an issue when attempting to do that with the rifle.

 

The issue comes with the nature of projectiles taking their time to hit the target. In the combo, I of course would Mark the target, use Iniciative skills to charge Malice, go to stealth specifically the Slient Scope dodge roll to stealth, then attempt to use the new Stealth Attack, Death's Judgement. However, if doing this at maximum range(kneeling or otherwise), the autoattacks takes about a second to hit the enemy target. Within that second I roll in order to stealth and use the stealth skill, but by the time I go to stealth, the autoattack projectile finally hits the target. The issue is that once that projectile hits, it reveals me before I could use the Stealth Skill. It cancels out my stealth.

 

Now I've heard that persisting attacks (as an example on Longbow Ranger, use the AoE skill 5, and then try to use Skill 3 to stealth, but gets revealed immediately since targets are getting hit.) or attacks that take its time to reach the enemy cause this problem. There should be a fix to eliminate this issue. Like any attack or skill persistent or not that comes out before stealth should not reveal you.

 

Hope this feedback helps.

[Harry.3648]

As a dead eye main from the very day the spec came out I couldn’t agree more with this from a pvp/wvw Perspective. If anyone from anet reads this post I hope the one thing they take away from it is that silent scope needs to be reverted to what it was before.

[JonnyForgotten.4276]

Just. . . just. . .change it back. For real.

[MUDse.7623]

first of all may i ask what other weaponset you use with your rifle?

 

> @"Elxdark.9702" said:

> **Silent scope**, no no no no no and no revert this right now or give it a new functionality and let us stealth with kneel without traits.

> It feels weird, clunky and wrong to use this trait in any situation. We lost our opener and position which are the most important things Deadeye had, it was the opener and position because otherwise it's food to anyone with a brain.

> Please this is the trait that is giving me depression because it's so bad, I simply don't understand why you changed it, it was perfect it didn't need anything.

> Please revert it, we lost the opener and position before fight and that's a huge impact in pvp as a Deadeye unless you want us to take any stealth utility which is still not enough.

> The only time this works is when you're in the middle of the fight and you get pressured, for everything else it's terrible.

 

i think i dont really understand your exact issue with this one. if you need prestealth you can still with snipers cover + DR or heartseeker altho not as comfortable as pre patch with kneel. but being able to go into stealth uninterrupted while preassured is a huge + IMO. altho this can also be a disadvantage, because if you get preassured while revealed - are you going to dodge then? it punishes bad timing for leaving the shadows!

 

what if this trait was changed to grant stealth on dodgeroll allways, not just in combat? i mean your resources for evades are not higher out of combat so..

 

> * Delete Burst of Shadow ( U S E L E S S )

if it would trigger on landing a stealth attack, it wouldnt be as useless as it is now, because it would give the DE little AoE option.

 

 

 

[Elxdark.9702]

> @"MUDse.7623" said:

> first of all may i ask what other weaponset you use with your rifle?

>

> > @"Elxdark.9702" said:

> > **Silent scope**, no no no no no and no revert this right now or give it a new functionality and let us stealth with kneel without traits.

> > It feels weird, clunky and wrong to use this trait in any situation. We lost our opener and position which are the most important things Deadeye had, it was the opener and position because otherwise it's food to anyone with a brain.

> > Please this is the trait that is giving me depression because it's so bad, I simply don't understand why you changed it, it was perfect it didn't need anything.

> > Please revert it, we lost the opener and position before fight and that's a huge impact in pvp as a Deadeye unless you want us to take any stealth utility which is still not enough.

> > The only time this works is when you're in the middle of the fight and you get pressured, for everything else it's terrible.

>

> i think i dont really understand your exact issue with this one. if you need prestealth you can still with snipers cover + DR or heartseeker altho not as comfortable as pre patch with kneel. but being able to go into stealth uninterrupted while preassured is a huge + IMO. altho this can also be a disadvantage, because if you get preassured while revealed - are you going to dodge then? it punishes bad timing for leaving the shadows!

>

> what if this trait was changed to grant stealth on dodgeroll allways, not just in combat? i mean your resources for evades are not higher out of combat so..

>

> > * Delete Burst of Shadow ( U S E L E S S )

> if it would trigger on landing a stealth attack, it wouldnt be as useless as it is now, because it would give the DE little AoE option.

>

>

>

 

IMO I'd rather have the old kneel/sniper's cover but yeah it would be nice if it was out of combat, I still consider that wasting a dodge only to get stealth is a bit dumb but it will be much better than only in combat that's for sure.

[Harry.3648]

Yep sums up my thoughts on this I Agee with everything you’ve said.

[babazhook.6805]

> @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said:

> > @"Stinja.9612" said:

> > The new version of deadeye is straight garbage as i feared it would be. Once again they take something that was fun and make it worse in almost every facet like what they did with S/S rev. It's flow of play feels terrible, its new skill "snipers cover" is absolutely terrible. I've just gone back to daredevil which i don't even really enjoy because of how bad the changes are. If i wanted to "base things on dodge rolls" id play daredevil not deadeye.

>

> I LOVE the changes. I'mma fricken force to be reckoned with in PvP now. I no longer feel like I am struggling in one on one (when disregarding the wack as kitten dagger auto attack nerf pattern) I no longer need to carry smoke screen against rangers. Can take my dual daggers and go ham at will. And I love the on demand stealth being a dodge roll. Dodge someone's attack, stealth, pop assassin's signet, swap weapons for guranteed crit backstab. Behold instadeath from a elite profession that used to be a member. I also love how snappy DJ is now. I no longer need to worry about blowing a lot of init, nor do I have to worry about reflections and aegis spam. Increased Init Regen when kneeling means I can be comfortable with not taking Trickery for a bit, and take acrobatics for survivability.

>

> My only gripe is they didn't call the new snipers cover "kitten Good Ground", as you become SUUUUPER ANNOYING, and immovable with that five second projectile hate.

>

> The one last thing it needs for rifle to be perfect in my opinion, is a buff to spotters shot immobility duration. The one second duration is worthless to a kneeled thief. The cripple is much better.

>

> Don't think of it as sniper. Think of it as a Core thief wielding a nuclear bomb with reduced mobility and utility.

 

While I do miss the "feel" of the old DE wherein it felt more like a Sniper, I have been experimenting with builds where I drop trickery which was much harder to do previously. The Combo of MALI 7 and Mercy is great for INI recovery. I did not get a lot of time in on a d/d build but dropping TR and taking CS with Hidden killer traited was more then a little promising. You can build malice quickly with DB If you wished, do a dodge roll for stealth and get in for some big damage.

 

As far as I am concerned the unblockable DJ is better then the old one. The number of shots that in fact hit jump way up.

 

I really think this will open up a few new builds.

[stone cold.8609]

Agree with the OP! I really like how the new Deadeye works with D/D condi non-stealth heavy build in PvE. I took the meta condi D/D Daredevil raid build that I have been using, added in the Mercy utility and Deadeye 131. P/P works well with it also. I never thought I'd say this, I'm switching to Deadeye for my elite. Good job on the changes ANet!

 

(I can't comment on the stealth based sniper build since I don't care for that play style and didn't run it pre patch.)

[The Hat.1493]

Somethings certainly going wrong with DJ, possibly in the damage calculations or otherwise.

A small loss of 5% shouldn't weaken it this much.

 

Hopefully Anet will soon mention somthing about it, if they made a mistake and will be looking into fixing it or people might start to wonder if this is a stealth nerf to stop the complaining about the 1 shot stuff.

[TheWolf.1602]

Is the 10 second cooldown on silent scope for the stealth on dodge or for the refresh on kneel?

[MUDse.7623]

> @"TheWolf.1602" said:

> Is the 10 second cooldown on silent scope for the stealth on dodge or for the refresh on kneel?

 

for the stealth on dodge, but kneel will reset the cd.

[Presac.3860]

Oh, combat only, I see. Only read the description text at first, but I see the Combat only on the trait details now.