The State of PvE balance

[Xantaria.8726]

> I'd rather say that your arguments don't speak against Scourge, but rather against Weaver. To elaborate: I really don't get why the (pseudo-) elitism about dps is so strong in a game in which endgame-content is mainly about executing mechanics properly. To be honest, people in GW2 should be able to play whatever dps-spec they want as long as they have a reasonable build and reasonable gear. It rather seems that ANet should rework Weaver/Elementalist to make it both simpler and more self-sufficient instead of nerfing other specs, because - honestly - how stupid is it to build a team around a single spec? Nearly every other spec also has some support-capabilities/brings cc, only Weaver is dps-only. I'd much rather see Weaver/Elementalist reworked instead of nerfing other specs.

 

My argument isnt against any of the classes, but against the *nerf* of a class with false reasons. Where have i wrote that i only take weavers and find every other class garbage?

And its nothing *elitistic* if some people just want to run efficient, cause someone like me just dont have the time to take 2hours for 1wingl if i can also have a full clear of all wings in 3h. Noone is looking down on anyone with this. I just have also other things to do in RL after i worked for 10h each day instead of playing trainingsmanagersimulator.

 

I only said that there is a reason that weaver has the most dps, and thats cause of its flaws. In contradiction, scourge has a massive hp pool, good spike with epi (and if bounced you get insane dps), good condi clear (on party as well) and you have some decent barrier uptime even with a full condi setup. For this his flaw is simply that his boss dps just is one of the lowest in comparison.

And if people have fun with building their static around a setup which provides more efficiency once mastered, then what is stupid about it? you dont have to join such groups.

Besides, you *can* kill any bosses with every class as a dps class in this game as long as you, just as you said if have a decent build and gear. You can even low man every boss to a certain lvl, me and some friend killed sloth with 1 chrono, 4 condi scourges and 1 healer scourge just cause we were bored.

So instead of nerfing anything and ruin the fun of others, demand reworks of the class you think is in need of the rework. Though class diversity wont be there if every class just do the same dmg and same support. Class diversity is given like the current system if x class is better in y situation. scourge for examble shines @ sabetha, matthias, xera, vg, desmina, mursaat and samarog though its support utilitys or though epi bounce.

[ButcherofMalakir.4067]

> @"JackassTheX.6351" said:

> Has anyone actually benchmarked the über-squishy Weaver build post-update to see what an impact it actually had, practically, on the damage output? There were other changes, such as Glyph of Storms now sharing CD based on what attunement you were in when you cast it and it's CD was lowered by 5 seconds. I'm sure people like the SnowCrows guild are working on an updated DPS Weaver as we speak, so don't worry. We'll get our new, maybe even less complicated, Ele DPS build.

>

> I somewhat agree with the OP that the fact that most classes output around 20-30k DPS while one single class easily does 30+ on decent execution seems a bit off and I'd be interested to know if this brought that particular build's damage down to what the other classes have. Coming from a necro which I mained years ago to a Weaver which I main now since I came back in early 2018, I found the Elementalist's lack of CC and basic support quite annoying. I would often sacrifice some DPS via for example Primordial Stance for something like Armor of Earth, use the Frost Bow instead of the Lightning Hammer (even though skill 4 is arguably the most OP skill ever), skipped rotation parts to use the limited Earth Attunement or Air Attunement CC abilities and I never felt like it detracted radically from the performance of the build. I think my teammates prefered me alive and able to continue to do damage than dead on the ground admiring my "epic burst DPS". If anything, I'd get kicked out of PUGs for dying all the time, not dealing less damage.

>

> I always felt like the design of GW2 was geared against the holy trinity of tank-dps-healer, and yet, the Weaver DPS is to me the only truly specialized build - even the Power Holosmith, which is another rather specialized DPS build, has commendable CC and utilities. So I think this was ANet's way of sticking to their guns, trying to get the players to explore the Elementalist in a less narrow light.

>

 

I heared that with same rotation weaver lost 9-10k dps. With new sc rotation and chaos boons ita on 42k

[Mini Crinny.6190]

> @"JackassTheX.6351" said:

> Has anyone actually benchmarked the über-squishy Weaver build post-update to see what an impact it actually had, practically, on the damage output? There were other changes, such as Glyph of Storms now sharing CD based on what attunement you were in when you cast it and it's CD was lowered by 5 seconds. I'm sure people like the SnowCrows guild are working on an updated DPS Weaver as we speak, so don't worry. We'll get our new, maybe even less complicated, Ele DPS build.

>

> I somewhat agree with the OP that the fact that most classes output around 20-30k DPS while one single class easily does 30+ on decent execution seems a bit off and I'd be interested to know if this brought that particular build's damage down to what the other classes have. Coming from a necro which I mained years ago to a Weaver which I main now since I came back in early 2018, I found the Elementalist's lack of CC and basic support quite annoying. I would often sacrifice some DPS via for example Primordial Stance for something like Armor of Earth, use the Frost Bow instead of the Lightning Hammer (even though skill 4 is arguably the most OP skill ever), skipped rotation parts to use the limited Earth Attunement or Air Attunement CC abilities and I never felt like it detracted radically from the performance of the build. I think my teammates prefered me alive and able to continue to do damage than dead on the ground admiring my "epic burst DPS". If anything, I'd get kicked out of PUGs for dying all the time, not dealing less damage.

>

> I always felt like the design of GW2 was geared against the holy trinity of tank-dps-healer, and yet, the Weaver DPS is to me the only truly specialized build - even the Power Holosmith, which is another rather specialized DPS build, has commendable CC and utilities. So I think this was ANet's way of sticking to their guns, trying to get the players to explore the Elementalist in a less narrow light.

>

 

I think on Small hitbox its the same as spellbreaker and Large its about 4k ahead of spellbreaker roughly but could be different

[ButcherofMalakir.4067]

Remember that all dps clases were nerfed slightly by changes to spirits and ea/spotter/pinpoint. Ele is still doing amazing dps with 42k. The think that you have to consider is this. Weaver doesnt bring much CC (and all he has he need to plan ahead). In this patch cs was increased by real 10 seconds so less moas. Druid lost up to 700 breakbar damage from wyvern. That means on fight like samarog raid group lost 1400 breakbar damage just from druids (and little bit on chrono). Samarog has 4000 defiamce bar health. With only weavers and berzerker instead of 2 core warriors it will be very hard to cc him especialy if chrono doesnt habe CS on every other breakbar.

[Anchoku.8142]

Epidemic is a hold-over from when Necro had extremely low dps, low survivability, and condi stacks were severely limited. I agree it needs an update but everyone should keep their facts in order about its use.

 

2 Ele with Meteor Shower can both use their skills independently.

 

2 Necro with Epidemic must coordinate bounces off of an available add mob within range of the boss. The first Epi goes off the boss doing damage only to adds within range. The second Epi should execute immediately off an add that is also in range of the boss. It is not a rotation that can be memorized and requires a call by the first player, cool down prediction and retargeting by the second player, and an available add mob within range of the boss.

 

In a well coordinated group against a boss with adds continuously available, Epidemic is very powerful but Epidemic can easily be a wasted slot if things do not go right. Mashing the Epi button just because it goes off CD is usually worthless, as is using it without adds in range, or using it on an add that gets no condi or dies. Bounces also do not work without at least 2 Necro's.

 

Meteor Shower is more reliable dps.

[Eekasqueak.7850]

> @"Anchoku.8142" said:

> Epidemic is a hold-over from when Necro had extremely low dps, low survivability, and condi stacks were severely limited. I agree it needs an update but everyone should keep their facts in order about its use.

>

> 2 Ele with Meteor Shower can both use their skills independently.

>

> 2 Necro with Epidemic must coordinate bounces off of an available add mob within range of the boss. The first Epi goes off the boss doing damage only to adds within range. The second Epi should execute immediately off an add that is also in range of the boss. It is not a rotation that can be memorized and requires a call by the first player, cool down prediction and retargeting by the second player, and an available add mob within range of the boss.

>

> In a well coordinated group against a boss with adds continuously available, Epidemic is very powerful but Epidemic can easily be a wasted slot if things do not go right. Mashing the Epi button just because it goes off CD is usually worthless, as is using it without adds in range, or using it on an add that gets no condi or dies. Bounces also do not work without at least 2 Necro's.

>

> Meteor Shower is more reliable dps.

 

Reading this makes me think scourge is harder, not easier to get DPS out of than Weaver is. Or at least requires more coordination.

[ranya ni.9356]

Okay, you know what? I need to stick my leg in and say my two cents.

 

I main necro. I have been a necro main since gw1 and it is my first and main toon in gw2. When gw2 first debuted necro was so op that the other classes were making this exact same complaint. I could, before scaling, easily solo in level 80 areas and take down champions with just myself and two minions. You know who couldn't? The elementalist. They aren't supposed to. They are a _glass canon_. They are supposed to do stupid amounts of damage at once. If you sneeze on them too hard they go down. Necro doesn't do the damage it used to, that's true, but it was so op that it needed nerfing. Am I pleased with how nerfed it got? No, not really. I'd still like to be able to kill something without taking 30 minutes on a single low level enemy with my staff.

 

Necro skills are based on survivablility and condition damage. They aren't supposed to do stupid amounts of dps. That's why they can spec as reaper or scourge. You can easily rotate between melee and distance with the staff, keeping your health at maximum with minions. Necro is, in my opinion, one of the easiest builds to play. It requires minimal rotation, simple combos, and a lot of healing. Even with greatsword or torch cooldown you can enter shroud to get a few seconds of extra health before you switch back to staff and bring you're health back to maximum. Ele gets a single weapon and has to rotate through 4 different sets of skills ALL while running around like a chicken with it's head cut off because they have NO survivability. Their op skill sets take forever to cast and are very easy to interrupt. My wife mains an ele and she will fire off a huge amount of damage and immediately down before I have even begun to lose health. It isn't because she isn't good, it's because that's how the class it built. Not to mention the necro is faster over land than the ele even with their air attunement. Necro spells take less time to cast, move faster, and have a comparable range.

 

Instead of complaining about the elementalist, which is built exactly how its supposed to be built, why don't we take a look at necro, bring back up staff damage and lower scourge? It isn't required, because greatsword and torch do fine, but it'd be nice. As is, necro does massive amounts of condi damage and lasts longer than almost any other build.

[Vargamonth.2047]

I don't really get what's so bad with necros TBH

 

Even if we limit the discussion to raids, I still think it's in a fairly good spot.

If we look at the best players, those who only run the very best, necro is still taken often because epi bounces. If we look at the average player, where everyone underperforms and picking a weaver is like playing lottery, necro can produce great results on many bosses even without epi bounces and won't be that far on those it's less suited for.

The only population to whom necro might truy fall behind are PuGs of really good players who can pull off complex/nonforgiving rotations to high degree but play without voicecomm and thus can't properly coordinate bounces. Everything else feels just bad press.

[JackassTheX.6351]

> @"Vargamonth.2047" said:

> I don't really get what's so bad with necros TBH

>

This, like I said, I mained necro when the game came out and while I mained Monk in GW1, since GW2 didn't have a 1:1 equivalent, Necro was my 2nd favourite class there. I switched to Weaver because I wanted something fresh and different (and I got it), but I'm actually thinking of switching back now that I've given Scourge a try.

 

I think this might not be the best thread to discuss this, but people playing Weaver, how have you been "coping" with the nerf? Obviously this won't be much of an issue for people not doing top-tier PvE where every bit of DPS counts, but still, I found it fun to massacre everything in open-world.

 

I've personally started deliberately interrupting MS and using the double-Fire Glyph (in combo with Elements of Rage trait like with MS before) more often because I think it's a waste of a) casting time and b) air glyph for a Meteor Shower that doesn't continuously hit hard. Also, I've started using Lighting Hammer during Fire Glyph. I haven't benchmarked any of this but just by doing some open-world champions and lege bosses this feels about right, i.e. I feel like I'm doing continuous damage.

 

 

[Ardenwolfe.8590]

This is the power creep. With every expansion, the newest elites make this worse and worse and worse. Yes, many new elite classes are obviously overpowered, but please don't give the players a gold ring and then turn it into brass a couple of months later . . . because someone didn't test it properly. It's not fair to your players, and it creates _a lot_ of resentment.

 

Again . . . obviously.

 

And if I had to guess? We're seeing these nerfs because of the future power creep with the next expansion. Saw this happen before Heart of Thorns. Saw this happen before Path of Fire. And we're now seeing this happen again before the newest expansion's release.

 

Yes, it's balanced . . . because of the next and newest shiny elite classes.

[Oldirtbeard.9834]

> @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said:

> This is the power creep. With every expansion, the newest elites make this worse and worse and worse. Yes, many new elite classes are obviously overpowered, but please don't give the players a gold ring and then turn it into brass a couple of months later . . . because someone didn't test it properly. It's not fair to your players, and it creates _a lot_ of resentment.

>

> Again . . . obviously.

>

> And if I had to guess? We're seeing these nerfs because of the future power creep with the next expansion. Saw this happen before Heart of Thorns. Saw this happen before Path of Fire. And we're now seeing this happen again before the newest expansion's release.

>

> Yes, it's balanced . . . because of the next and newest shiny elite classes.

 

Let's hope the next Expansion gives Necro an Optimal Hammer Tanking Spec!

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"gateless gate.8406" said:

> Here's the breakdown of DPS classes in my previous MMO: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/17#

> There is only a 15% difference between the best and worst specs. Removing the absolute best and absolute worst, that difference shrinks to just 10%. Compare that to the 24% difference between a GW2 Necro's 29k and a Weaver's 36k. For kicks, compare it to the 52% (!!!) difference between 29k and 44k. You cannot have a class doing 52% more damage than another.

>

 

I'm gonna ask here because I honestly don't know. Are those wow statistics with or without any party buffs? Self buffs are OK.

 

[wojin.1860]

GW2 has specialized tanks and specialized healers now.

obvious consequence ---> no one need to run hybrid builds.

obvious consequence---> DPS is the only thing that really matters

and classes who sit at the lower end of the DPS charts will always be screwed.

 

Being carried by tanks and supports is what allow people to run ridiculously "optimized" builds and that's what kills build diversity in most mmorpg.

GW2 included.

 

Want more build diversity ? remove healers and tanks.

Make everyone responsible for his own HP bar.

If content is hard enough, you'll see happy hybrids and "low" DPS spec everywhere.

 

If content isn't hard enough, glass cannons will still be kings. But at least only the minority of the hardcorest elitist will care.

 

[CptAurellian.9537]

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > @"gateless gate.8406" said:

> > Here's the breakdown of DPS classes in my previous MMO: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/17#

> > There is only a 15% difference between the best and worst specs. Removing the absolute best and absolute worst, that difference shrinks to just 10%. Compare that to the 24% difference between a GW2 Necro's 29k and a Weaver's 36k. For kicks, compare it to the 52% (!!!) difference between 29k and 44k. You cannot have a class doing 52% more damage than another.

> >

>

> I'm gonna ask here because I honestly don't know. Are those wow statistics with or without any party buffs? Self buffs are OK.

 

Haven't played WoW in a long time, but those statistics are based in real raid data and thus, most likely, with full buffs. In this case, it is aggregated data from all bosses in that instance. You can play around in the top menu to see single bosses and other stuff.

[Vrita.7846]

With the current nerf to MS, I don't think there's any reason to bring a staff Weaver to anything anymore. People seem to forget that Weaver brought literally nothing except dps, so if you take that away from it, what can it do? If it can't bring dps, while also having a complex rotation, it'll just be another condi engi. Did Weaver need a nerf? Sure, but it didn't need to be gutted the way it did. Besides, the nerf to MS wasn't just a nerf to Weaver, it nerfed cored ele and Tempest as well which aren't even that great to begin with, and now they're worse. Weaver has plenty of dmg modifiers, why didn't they nerf those to tone the dmg down a bit? It's pretty clear Anet's balance team doesn't know what the hell they're doing, cause they make such horrible decisions on almost every balance patch they put out.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"CptAurellian.9537" said:

> > @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > > @"gateless gate.8406" said:

> > > Here's the breakdown of DPS classes in my previous MMO: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/17#

> > > There is only a 15% difference between the best and worst specs. Removing the absolute best and absolute worst, that difference shrinks to just 10%. Compare that to the 24% difference between a GW2 Necro's 29k and a Weaver's 36k. For kicks, compare it to the 52% (!!!) difference between 29k and 44k. You cannot have a class doing 52% more damage than another.

> > >

> >

> > I'm gonna ask here because I honestly don't know. Are those wow statistics with or without any party buffs? Self buffs are OK.

>

> Haven't played WoW in a long time, but those statistics are based in real raid data and thus, most likely, with full buffs. In this case, it is aggregated data from all bosses in that instance. You can play around in the top menu to see single bosses and other stuff.

 

I see. The reason I was asking is because in GW2 the average DPS of every build is rather low, even a Weaver played perfectly can't reach higher than 15k DPS and that's a high estimate. The real DPS comes from the offensive damage buffs provided by other builds, Quickness, Fury, Banners, Might and so on, buffs that Weaver itself mostly lacks (other than some amount of Might and Fury). Weaver cannot reach those numbers without SERIOUS help, I was wondering if it was the same in WOW or if those numbers are achieved without as much external help.

[Feanor.2358]

> @"Vrita.7846" said:

> With the current nerf to MS, I don't think there's any reason to bring a staff Weaver to anything anymore. People seem to forget that Weaver brought literally nothing except dps, so if you take that away from it, what can it do? If it can't bring dps, while also having a complex rotation, it'll just be another condi engi. Did Weaver need a nerf? Sure, but it didn't need to be gutted the way it did. Besides, the nerf to MS wasn't just a nerf to Weaver, it nerfed cored ele and Tempest as well which aren't even that great to begin with, and now they're worse. Weaver has plenty of dmg modifiers, why didn't they nerf those to tone the dmg down a bit? It's pretty clear Anet's balance team doesn't know what the hell they're doing, cause they make such horrible decisions on almost every balance patch they put out.

 

Now that's an exaggeration. I don't like the change, but staff weaver is still top dps unless you can epi bounce. Or, well, you're doing a condi-friendly boss.

[Vrita.7846]

> @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > @"Vrita.7846" said:

> > With the current nerf to MS, I don't think there's any reason to bring a staff Weaver to anything anymore. People seem to forget that Weaver brought literally nothing except dps, so if you take that away from it, what can it do? If it can't bring dps, while also having a complex rotation, it'll just be another condi engi. Did Weaver need a nerf? Sure, but it didn't need to be gutted the way it did. Besides, the nerf to MS wasn't just a nerf to Weaver, it nerfed cored ele and Tempest as well which aren't even that great to begin with, and now they're worse. Weaver has plenty of dmg modifiers, why didn't they nerf those to tone the dmg down a bit? It's pretty clear Anet's balance team doesn't know what the hell they're doing, cause they make such horrible decisions on almost every balance patch they put out.

>

> Now that's an exaggeration. I don't like the change, but staff weaver is still top dps unless you can epi bounce. Or, well, you're doing a condi-friendly boss.

 

Doesn't change the fact that they targeted the wrong thing for a nerf. They can nerf Weaver without nerfing ele as a class. It'll hurt sword/d, but they can buff that to compensate for proper staff Weaver nerfs.

[Deepcuts.9740]

I see "PvE balance" but I read ideas/complaints about Necro and Ele only. Mostly complaints about Ele from a Necro player.

My main is Ranger/Druid but I never recall creating topics about other professions and complaining they are too over powered.

My wish is that every class can reach a balance where it is desired as much as the next class. As in: buff the crappy classes; don't butcher good ones.

[CptAurellian.9537]

> @"Deepcuts.9740" said:

> My wish is that every class can reach a balance where it is desired as much as the next class. As in: buff the crappy classes; don't butcher good ones.

Nerfs are a necessity if you want to avoid ridiculous amounts of power creep.

 

[Belorn.2659]

Top golem benchmarks means exactly nothing for raid and has been proven repeatably. Sites like gw2raidar has been providing global player stats for almost a year now and it has consistently shown average dps, top 75% and 99% percentile as being spread out on multiple classes.

 

Weaver has and still is top for the keep construct charts. The obvious reason is the 20% (now 10%) damage boost from stunned targets and the large hitbox. This is the only boss that weaver has consistently been top dps on.

 

Every other boss has had a number of different top dps classes depending on what has been top performance for its specific environment and mechanics. Xera being a great example where it has been tempest, condi ranger, berserker warrior, firebrand, mirage, hs, and finally scourge. Ironically weaver have never been top dps on xera since there have always been an other that has been "better" dps for that fight, both power and condi.

 

At the peak when weaver was most used a few patches ago I recall doing the numbers and found that about half of the bosses had weaver as top dps. After that weaver has been used less and less. The uniqueness of the boss mechanics means that what is optimal changes according to every patch.

 

> @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > @"Vrita.7846" said:

> > With the current nerf to MS, I don't think there's any reason to bring a staff Weaver to anything anymore. People seem to forget that Weaver brought literally nothing except dps, so if you take that away from it, what can it do? If it can't bring dps, while also having a complex rotation, it'll just be another condi engi. Did Weaver need a nerf? Sure, but it didn't need to be gutted the way it did. Besides, the nerf to MS wasn't just a nerf to Weaver, it nerfed cored ele and Tempest as well which aren't even that great to begin with, and now they're worse. Weaver has plenty of dmg modifiers, why didn't they nerf those to tone the dmg down a bit? It's pretty clear Anet's balance team doesn't know what the hell they're doing, cause they make such horrible decisions on almost every balance patch they put out.

>

> Now that's an exaggeration. I don't like the change, but staff weaver is still top dps unless you can epi bounce. Or, well, you're doing a condi-friendly boss.

 

Staff weaver is top dps on KC. Time will tell about gor, sloth, sam, deimos and dhuum. Early data (ie data from last tuesday and today, which excludes all the reset teams), seems to point towards few changes except for gor but time will tell. This is too early to conclusive claim anything about "top dps", except KC which I doubt will see a change even with the 10% nerf.

[steki.1478]

I like how there's always complains about necro vs ele, when both technically cant do anything without a proper composition. Why are other classes being ignored?

 

Condi mirage spams 6 skills off cd with a weapon swap, nearly 50% evade frame, with possibly of bringing reflect (or other utility like boon rips) and moa for minor dps loss. Among top dps in game as well as very strong solo class.

 

Warrior who can bring either very high cc, or improve squad dps by 20k+ while still having among highest damage in groups. Not to mention the highest base health /armor on top of that as well as boon rips on spellbreaker. Also very strong solo class.

 

Yes, both weaver and condi engi are hard to play, but weaver comes with 10 damage modifiers and no utility while engi has 3 or so condi focused traits, brings pretty good cc, on demand cleanse and has no cd nor cast time on kits unlike conjureds. Just wait for a condi focused elite spec, condi rev was nothing without renegade, at least core engi has a good base.

 

This still doesnt mean that weaver should be 15k ahead of other classes, but it definitely deserves a top spot. So instead of comparing low dps, 'support' spec with some utility, good self and group sustain and highest damage potential when stacked (also known as scourge) to a most dps focused spec in game (also known as weaver), compare it to classes who have similar utility (or even higher), but do a lot more damage (for example warrior).

[JackassTheX.6351]

> @"Deepcuts.9740" said:

> I see "PvE balance" but I read ideas/complaints about Necro and Ele only. Mostly complaints about Ele from a Necro player.

> My main is Ranger/Druid but I never recall creating topics about other professions and complaining they are too over powered.

> My wish is that every class can reach a balance where it is desired as much as the next class. As in: buff the crappy classes; don't butcher good ones.

 

A thousand thumbs up!

 

I checked out parts of a video yesterday about an hour long where two guys go through the changes and I was floored. Just one example - what happened to the Engineer's medkit?! Holy crud! They raised skill 1's healing effectiveness by 500% and completely reworked the whole kit. Druid's healing, on the other hand, got nerfed pretty badly in that respect (30%+ decreases in healing). Spotter was nerfed, so was Pinpoint Distribution.

 

 

Here's the video, but it's funny (like one of the comments mentioned) that they kind of bashed people for narrowly looking at PvE (raids/fracs only) yet they seem to discuss PvP most of the time.

 

> @"Belorn.2659" said:

> Top golem benchmarks means exactly nothing for raid and has been proven repeatably.

 

I haven't raided yet (I intend to at some point), but I would HOPE that's the case - one of my favourite fractals is Cliffside, because it has good mechanics and knowing those is more pertinent to being successful than just doing rotations properly.

 

> At the peak when weaver was most used a few patches ago I recall doing the numbers and found that about half of the bosses had weaver as top dps. After that weaver has been used less and less. The uniqueness of the boss mechanics means that what is optimal changes according to every patch.

 

In that regard, I think Weavers have nothing to worry about, because Ele still does pretty good damage overall; it's not like they suddenly deal 20k.

[GWMO.4785]

From where i see it: Necro is easy to play, and there for is not / does not feel rewarding. Ele on the other hand, is harder to play (correcty), which rewards you with higher damage output if play it correctly. But thats kinda hard to pull in actual encounters given your foe does not stand still idling like in the benchmark videos. Also your damage will drop significantly if you dont do your rotation right. Making it mediocore or even lower then what a necro can do in general. So there is that skillcap. So all-in-all i think the "ratio" is fair.

 

Also serious question: what is with this Epidemic complains? It transfers condition from one to another, which works as intended. It can scale quite hard if more necro's do it. But that is just because there is more necros. I dont really see why that makes the skill itself "overpowered". Someone please explain this to me...

[CptAurellian.9537]

> @"GWMO.4785" said:

> Also serious question: what is with this Epidemic complains? It transfers condition from one to another, which works as intended. It can scale quite hard if more necro's do it. But that is just because there is more necros. I dont really see why that makes the skill itself "overpowered". Someone please explain this to me...

It's epi bouncing between several necros. One epis out from the boss and then the others use the add to bounce the 25 stacks of everything back to the boss. That way, on the boss they have their normal stacks of conditions plus a crapton of stacks from the inbound epi, resulting in quite absurd singletarget damage. As long as they get the coordination done, at least.