We can't infer anything about the All.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

> @"Daniel Handler.4816" said:

> Those maps look different, the same style had not produced the same shapes.

 

Funny, just like the maps of the Realm of Torment and The All.

 

> @"Daniel Handler.4816" said:

> We don't know how the Realm of Torment is enwrapped, it clearly zoomed in and several arcs go nowhere.

 

So why are you saying it looks like The All, and thus must have a relation, if the Realm of Torment is merely a fracture of the whole while The All is a whole? Just because the lines and circles are in similar placement?

 

> @"Daniel Handler.4816" said:

> I also don't expect it to be identical to the All just to denote it's place. A map of England should fit with a map of Europe.

 

Or, since we've been told time and time again that the Realm of Torment is in the Mists and is separate from the world of Tyria, it would be like trying to place New Zealand in a map of Europe.

 

> @"Daniel Handler.4816" said:

> There is no reason why these couldn't be contemplations on all or part of the same structure. The Realm of Torment reflects the darker aspects of the Tyria, and can make echoes and receive demons. It's could be the outer most ring.

 

The Realm of Torment is not some "darker aspects of Tyria". What little similarity there was, was due to Abaddon twisting the Realm of Torment into a dark mockery of Tyria in order to merge the two together and break free of his prison (the entire premise of Nightfall).

 

> @"Daniel Handler.4816" said:

> Obstructed pathing, not sight. Also none of the core spellcasters needed weapons and Shiro can phase backwards without a target.

>

> They used Joko because it was cool.

 

They likely used Joko because they wanted to use profession-unique/specific methods of escaping, and legends are the defacto profession mechanic for revenants. There is no famous prison breakout individual besides Joko. Plus it was funny.

 

**Still** doesn't mean they phased into the Mists or took a risk.

 

> @"Daniel Handler.4816" said:

> Once again. Hidden Arcana made it quite clear the personality of a Legend can influence how its channeled and enact a toll on the body.

 

A pre-release promotion that has not shown up in the game, suggesting that such a thing has been retconned. That article had specified Mallyx, but to quote the game: "You can't hold me forever." Mallyx is all talk, no pain. Joko would be too.

 

> @"Daniel Handler.4816" said:

> The skills literally reverence stepping through the Mists, etc.

 

**Shadowstep** and unleash fierce attacks on nearby foes. Gain might each time you damage a foe.

 

Hurl your axe at your target, damaging and chilling the foes the axe passes through. When the axe reaches the target, **shadowstep** to it and deliver a large blow.

 

If you say so.

 

> @"Daniel Handler.4816" said:

> What has never been done before is irrelevant to a new profession that can manipulate the Mists themselves. And the sudden appearance of a Revenant from an unknown race.

 

Not even Rytlock could get back to Tyria from The Mists though. He needed the help of a former god.

[Daniel Handler.4816]

> @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

 

I'm not interested in theorycrafting cosmology anymore, especially Gw1. The connection will be decided by the writers. And I yield to whatever they reveal.

 

All I know is that in Gw2 Scourge can temporarily breach the Realm of Torment. When the gods abandoned Tyria they also left specific realms. And the Spirit World resembles our own. I imagine those worlds are close to ours in some respect, but they might not be.

 

> > @"Daniel Handler.4816" said:

> > Obstructed pathing, not sight. Also none of the core spellcasters needed weapons and Shiro can phase backwards without a target.

> >

> > They used Joko because it was cool.

>

> They likely used Joko because they wanted to use profession-unique/specific methods of escaping, and legends are the defacto profession mechanic for revenants. There is no famous prison breakout individual besides Joko. Plus it was funny.

>

> **Still** doesn't mean they phased into the Mists or took a risk.

 

I said they didn't phase through the Mists to escape and the question was why.

 

As for risk, "Perhaps you can use Joko's strength against him...And power...Just this one...Never again...." sounds rather unpleasant, enough to exhaust other options.

 

 

However it seems the bonk from Amala, loss of weapons, etc, inhibited abilities across all professions. If Revenant's couldn't reach other Legends then Joko would be the only option.

 

>

> > @"Daniel Handler.4816" said:

> > Once again. Hidden Arcana made it quite clear the personality of a Legend can influence how its channeled and enact a toll on the body.

>

> A pre-release promotion that has not shown up in the game, suggesting that such a thing has been retconned. That article had specified Mallyx, but to quote the game: "You can't hold me forever." Mallyx is all talk, no pain. Joko would be too.

 

Mallyx was pain, the playstyle was redone but the self harm component still exists as a grandmaster.

>

> > @"Daniel Handler.4816" said:

> > The skills literally reverence stepping through the Mists, etc.

>

> **Shadowstep** and unleash fierce attacks on nearby foes. Gain might each time you damage a foe.

>

> Hurl your axe at your target, damaging and chilling the foes the axe passes through. When the axe reaches the target, **shadowstep** to it and deliver a large blow.

>

> If you say so.

 

Spear

* Throw your spear at your foe. Upon impact, damage your foe and connect to them with through the Mists. While the connection is active it will apply burning. - >Step through the Mists toward the branded foe, dealing damage in an area to nearby foes.

 

Hammer

* Leap through the Mists to the target area. When you land, damage and chill foes in an area, then teleport back to your previous location.

 

Shiro

* Step through the Mists to your target. Your next few attacks can't be blocked and deal increased damage.

* Dodge backward through the Mists. Remove movement-impairing conditions, and gain fury.

 

Also no Revenant skills, regardless of description, are on the teleport or shadowstep pages of the wiki.

 

> > @"Daniel Handler.4816" said:

> > What has never been done before is irrelevant to a new profession that can manipulate the Mists themselves. And the sudden appearance of a Revenant from an unknown race.

>

> Not even Rytlock could get back to Tyria from The Mists though. He needed the help of a former god.

 

That presumes Rytlock is an example of the skill ceiling for a Revenant. And that he was one before entering the portal.

And that under your previous reasoning, the flames of sohothin are enough external aid for a mortal to make a portal to the Mists.

 

 

[Danikat.8537]

Also, while we're on the topic (of being off topic): All my steeds are blue and purple.

 

My point was simply that you cannot take what one Anet employee chooses to reply to as a declaration of the entire companies priorities. It's great that Scott took the time to reply at all and his insight was very useful, regardless of whether it met anyone's personal priorities. That doesn't mean other discussions aren't important, just that the people who could be involved in them haven't chosen to post today.

[Daniel Handler.4816]

> @"Danikat.8537" said:

> Also, while we're on the topic (of being off topic): All my steeds are blue and purple.

>

> My point was simply that you cannot take what one Anet employee chooses to reply to as a declaration of the entire companies priorities. It's great that Scott took the time to reply at all and his insight was very useful, regardless of whether it met anyone's personal priorities. That doesn't mean other discussions aren't important, just that the people who could be involved in them haven't chosen to post today.

 

Or to segue back to the topic. Scott explained that one employee should not be assumed to have complete control over a concept. Sometimes balancing the universe is the work of an entire team.

 

 

 

[Scott McGough.6897]

> @"Daniel Handler.4816" said:

> Or to segue back to the topic. Scott explained that one employee should not be assumed to have complete control over a concept. Sometimes balancing the universe is the work of an entire team.

>

100% this. Thank you very much for encapsulating my multi-paragraph wall of text into an efficient two-sentence summary.

 

 

[Daniel Handler.4816]

> @"Scott McGough.6897" said:

> > @"Daniel Handler.4816" said:

> > Or to segue back to the topic. Scott explained that one employee should not be assumed to have complete control over a concept. Sometimes balancing the universe is the work of an entire team.

> >

> 100% this. Thank you very much for encapsulating my multi-paragraph wall of text into an efficient two-sentence summary.

>

>

 

You're welcome, but I actually enjoyed your wall of text and I'm sure the rest of the sub-forum did too. It may have been long but (unlike many of my and others' posts) it wasn't full of speculation.

 

Post as much information on here as you like. And thank you for taking the time to do so.

[Tyson.5160]

> >

> > > @"Daniel Handler.4816" said:

> > > The skills literally reverence stepping through the Mists, etc.

> >

> > **Shadowstep** and unleash fierce attacks on nearby foes. Gain might each time you damage a foe.

> >

> > Hurl your axe at your target, damaging and chilling the foes the axe passes through. When the axe reaches the target, **shadowstep** to it and deliver a large blow.

> >

> > If you say so.

>

> Spear

> * Throw your spear at your foe. Upon impact, damage your foe and connect to them with through the Mists. While the connection is active it will apply burning. - >Step through the Mists toward the branded foe, dealing damage in an area to nearby foes.

>

> Hammer

> * Leap through the Mists to the target area. When you land, damage and chill foes in an area, then teleport back to your previous location.

>

> Shiro

> * Step through the Mists to your target. Your next few attacks can't be blocked and deal increased damage.

> * Dodge backward through the Mists. Remove movement-impairing conditions, and gain fury.

>

> Also no Revenant skills, regardless of description, are on the teleport or shadowstep pages of the wiki.

>

> > > @"Daniel Handler.4816" said:

> > > What has never been done before is irrelevant to a new profession that can manipulate the Mists themselves. And the sudden appearance of a Revenant from an unknown race.

> >

> > Not even Rytlock could get back to Tyria from The Mists though. He needed the help of a former god.

>

> That presumes Rytlock is an example of the skill ceiling for a Revenant. And that he was one before entering the portal.

> And that under your previous reasoning, the flames of sohothin are enough external aid for a mortal to make a portal to the Mists.

>

>

“Displace your foe away from you through the mists.” From downed state. The number 2 knock back skill. Yeah, I’ve been playing Revenant since it’s release, it’s pretty obvious that they can weave in and out of the Mists, briefly mind you, but they do it. It’s the same when they dodge. They temporary go into the Mists then return.

 

 

[alcopaul.2156]

the all is the confederate union of napster and kazaa, under a fixed eternal hierarchy, respecting the guided free-will of each reverent units.

[alcopaul.2156]

the all is the confederate union of napster and kazaa, under a fixed eternal hierarchy, respecting the guided free-will of each reverent units.

[CETheLucid.3964]

> @"Daniel Handler.4816" said:

> That presumes Rytlock is an example of the skill ceiling for a Revenant. And that he was one before entering the portal.

> And that under your previous reasoning, the flames of sohothin are enough external aid for a mortal to make a portal to the Mists.

Where did Konig say Sohothin alone was enough to create a portal from the Mists?

 

To even begin his journey, Rytlock needed to do an elaborate ancient human ritual in an attempt to free Ascalon of the Foefire curse. It didn't work as planned (probably because he's a charr and I believe the ritual calls for a human royal of direct Doric lineage) and he ended up following after it into the Mists.

 

If I remember correctly, Rytlock didn't just zap himself a portal back to Tyria with Sohothin.

 

 

Balthazar did that for him in addition to reigniting his sword.

"Thanks for freeing me buddy, here's some fire for your sword and portal home!"

 

Rytlock didn't know it was Balthazar at the time. Balthazar followed him through it and from HoT to the start of the PoF storyline he'd been quietly gathering power for himself in an attempt to restore his complete power as a deity. Bloodstone Fen explosion event was the turning point.

 

[Daniel Handler.4816]

> @"CETheLucid.3964" said:

> > @"Daniel Handler.4816" said:

> > That presumes Rytlock is an example of the skill ceiling for a Revenant. And that he was one before entering the portal.

> > And that under your previous reasoning, the flames of sohothin are enough external aid for a mortal to make a portal to the Mists.

> Where did Konig say Sohothin alone was enough to create a portal from the Mists?

 

Balthazar was stripped of his power. He should not be making portals anywhere or reignitng Sohothin. If he was able to by siphoning it's flames, that's not a major external aid, just knowledge. And again Rytlock is by no means an example of a peak Revenant.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

Balthazar was stripped of his divinity. This does not make him powerless or incapable of any act. Merely incapable of breaking his own chains and influencing distant places. Further, he opened the portal after being freed from the chains, which likely hindered what power he still had.

[ugrakarma.9416]

the Gods assumed Balthazar would be trapped forever, so they did not bother to kill him completely, or even eliminate his magical abilities (like manipulating fire). His release from Rytlock was an event of extreme luck/exceptional.

[Tyson.5160]

> @"ugrakarma.9416" said:

> the Gods assumed Balthazar would be trapped forever, so they did not bother to kill him completely, or even eliminate his magical abilities (like manipulating fire). His release from Rytlock was an event of extreme luck/exceptional.

 

Remember what Taimi said when we scanned Balthazar in the Flashpoint.

 

“Upon scanning Balthazar:

Scanner: No—life—detected. Only—magic—energy—present...

 

...: So what's going on with Balthazar?

Taimi: He's somehow inserted himself into the system... And he's so magically adept... So in order to absorb...”

 

Balthazar is a magical being, had they completely removed all his magic it would have killed him. Even when he dies at the end of Path of Fire, he just explodes with magical energy. Relighting a sword and opening a portal in a weakened state should really show how powerful Balthazar was in his full god form.

[CETheLucid.3964]

> @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > @"ugrakarma.9416" said:

> > the Gods assumed Balthazar would be trapped forever, so they did not bother to kill him completely, or even eliminate his magical abilities (like manipulating fire). His release from Rytlock was an event of extreme luck/exceptional.

>

> Remember what Taimi said when we scanned Balthazar in the Flashpoint.

>

> “Upon scanning Balthazar:

> Scanner: No—life—detected. Only—magic—energy—present...

>

> ...: So what's going on with Balthazar?

> Taimi: He's somehow inserted himself into the system... And he's so magically adept... So in order to absorb...”

>

> Balthazar is a magical being, had they completely removed all his magic it would have killed him. Even when he dies at the end of Path of Fire, he just explodes with magical energy. Relighting a sword and opening a portal in a weakened state should really show how powerful Balthazar was in his full god form.

 

 

Personally, I'm curious as to who replaced Balthazar as the god of war. Kormir corrects Rytlock on assuming there are only five gods again. I doubt it's Menzies. It's not us... yet?

 

If this were GW1 it would be easy to think the PC is being groomed to be the replacement but GW2 has multiple playble races. Maybe Logan?

 

Or if they're already there and left with the gods, who the hell is it? Where did they come from? Are they a character that's already existed in the story or someone out of left field?

 

[Tyson.5160]

> @"CETheLucid.3964" said:

> > @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > > @"ugrakarma.9416" said:

> > > the Gods assumed Balthazar would be trapped forever, so they did not bother to kill him completely, or even eliminate his magical abilities (like manipulating fire). His release from Rytlock was an event of extreme luck/exceptional.

> >

> > Remember what Taimi said when we scanned Balthazar in the Flashpoint.

> >

> > “Upon scanning Balthazar:

> > Scanner: No—life—detected. Only—magic—energy—present...

> >

> > ...: So what's going on with Balthazar?

> > Taimi: He's somehow inserted himself into the system... And he's so magically adept... So in order to absorb...”

> >

> > Balthazar is a magical being, had they completely removed all his magic it would have killed him. Even when he dies at the end of Path of Fire, he just explodes with magical energy. Relighting a sword and opening a portal in a weakened state should really show how powerful Balthazar was in his full god form.

>

>

Personally, I'm curious as to who replaced Balthazar as the god of war. Kormir corrects Rytlock on assuming there are only five gods again. I doubt it's Menzies. It's not us... yet?

>

> If this were GW1 it would be easy to think the PC is being groomed to be the replacement but GW2 has multiple playble races. Maybe Logan?

>

> Or if they're already there and left with the gods, who the hell is it? Where did they come from? Are they a character that's already existed in the story or someone out of left field?

 

 

Maybe Devona took Balthazar’s place.

 

[CETheLucid.3964]

> @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > @"CETheLucid.3964" said:

> > > @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > > > @"ugrakarma.9416" said:

> > > > the Gods assumed Balthazar would be trapped forever, so they did not bother to kill him completely, or even eliminate his magical abilities (like manipulating fire). His release from Rytlock was an event of extreme luck/exceptional.

> > >

> > > Remember what Taimi said when we scanned Balthazar in the Flashpoint.

> > >

> > > “Upon scanning Balthazar:

> > > Scanner: No—life—detected. Only—magic—energy—present...

> > >

> > > ...: So what's going on with Balthazar?

> > > Taimi: He's somehow inserted himself into the system... And he's so magically adept... So in order to absorb...”

> > >

> > > Balthazar is a magical being, had they completely removed all his magic it would have killed him. Even when he dies at the end of Path of Fire, he just explodes with magical energy. Relighting a sword and opening a portal in a weakened state should really show how powerful Balthazar was in his full god form.

> >

> >

Personally, I'm curious as to who replaced Balthazar as the god of war. Kormir corrects Rytlock on assuming there are only five gods again. I doubt it's Menzies. It's not us... yet?

> >

> > If this were GW1 it would be easy to think the PC is being groomed to be the replacement but GW2 has multiple playble races. Maybe Logan?

> >

> > Or if they're already there and left with the gods, who the hell is it? Where did they come from? Are they a character that's already existed in the story or someone out of left field?

 

>

> Maybe Devona took Balthazar’s place.

>

 

 

We killed her in PoF, she was a (tragically) corrupted servant of Balthazar.

 

[Tyson.5160]

> @"CETheLucid.3964" said:

> > @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > > @"CETheLucid.3964" said:

> > > > @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > > > > @"ugrakarma.9416" said:

> > > > > the Gods assumed Balthazar would be trapped forever, so they did not bother to kill him completely, or even eliminate his magical abilities (like manipulating fire). His release from Rytlock was an event of extreme luck/exceptional.

> > > >

> > > >

Remember what Taimi said when we scanned Balthazar in the Flashpoint.

> > > >

> > > > “Upon scanning Balthazar:

> > > > Scanner: No—life—detected. Only—magic—energy—present...

> > > >

> > > > ...: So what's going on with Balthazar?

> > > > Taimi: He's somehow inserted himself into the system... And he's so magically adept... So in order to absorb...”

> > > >

> > > > Balthazar is a magical being, had they completely removed all his magic it would have killed him. Even when he dies at the end of Path of Fire, he just explodes with magical energy. Relighting a sword and opening a portal in a weakened state should really show how powerful Balthazar was in his full god form.

> > >

> > >

Personally, I'm curious as to who replaced Balthazar as the god of war. Kormir corrects Rytlock on assuming there are only five gods again. I doubt it's Menzies. It's not us... yet?

> > >

> > > If this were GW1 it would be easy to think the PC is being groomed to be the replacement but GW2 has multiple playble races. Maybe Logan?

> > >

> > > Or if they're already there and left with the gods, who the hell is it? Where did they come from? Are they a character that's already existed in the story or someone out of left field?

 

> >

> > Maybe Devona took Balthazar’s place.

> >

>

>

We killed her in PoF, she was a (tragically) corrupted servant of Balthazar.

 

 

No, I realize this, but the Gods could have taken her spirit and place it in a corporeal body again. That being said, Balthazar had been chained up for an in disclosed amount of time, so it’s possible the Gods replaced his position way before Gw2 took place, which is way more likely.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

> @"CETheLucid.3964" said:

>

Personally, I'm curious as to who replaced Balthazar as the god of war. Kormir corrects Rytlock on assuming there are only five gods again. I doubt it's Menzies. It's not us... yet?

>

> If this were GW1 it would be easy to think the PC is being groomed to be the replacement but GW2 has multiple playble races. Maybe Logan?

>

> Or if they're already there and left with the gods, who the hell is it? Where did they come from? Are they a character that's already existed in the story or someone out of left field?

 

 

Whoever took Balthazar's place, took it ~200 years ago when Balthazar's divinity was taken. A god's power **must** be contained, and objects shouldn't be able to contain it, otherwise the entire Abaddon plot makes no sense.

 

> @"Tyson.5160" said:

> Maybe Devona took Balthazar’s place.

 

Devona is the Herald of Balthazar. After death, her soul went to the Fissure of Woe, and joined the Eternal army. Only to be later enslaved by Balthazar.

[Tyson.5160]

Yeah, I corrected myself in the above post as Balthazar position would of been filled way before PoF.

[Daniel Handler.4816]

> @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> Balthazar was stripped of his divinity. This does not make him powerless or incapable of any act. Merely incapable of breaking his own chains and influencing distant places. Further, he opened the portal after being freed from the chains, which likely hindered what power he still had.

 

Then Balthazar wasn't a mortal. I don't know what "not even Rytlock" means. He didn't create the discipline, he learned it from Glint. He doesn't display any spellcasting prowess like Kasmeer, much less Jennah.

 

The concept that mortals can't enter the Mists without external aid is like saying wells require corpses, exit portals must be placed first, you can't blink through jail cell walls, or rangers don't use spells.

 

Clearly they have found a way.

[CETheLucid.3964]

> @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> Whoever took Balthazar's place, took it ~200 years ago when Balthazar's divinity was taken. A god's power **must** be contained, and objects shouldn't be able to contain it, otherwise the entire Abaddon plot makes no sense.

 

Yeah. Maybe. We can't be sure his fall was exactly 200 years ago, but somewhere there between the gods firmly stepping back from Tyria and the stirring of the recent elder dragon cycle. It could have been a relatively recent development or it could have been a good while back.

 

It wouldn't be the first time Kormir was cryptic about something. And although Balthazar certainly wasn't in possession of his full divinity, I'm certain there was a bit left of his original alien magic that's completely different from Tyria that got eaten up between Kralkatorrik and Aurene.

 

I wonder how that's going to turn out? Or if it'll even matter? Maybe I'm off the mark with that. Maybe by the end of Season 4 we'll know who the new god of war is.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

> @"Daniel Handler.4816" said:

> > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > Balthazar was stripped of his divinity. This does not make him powerless or incapable of any act. Merely incapable of breaking his own chains and influencing distant places. Further, he opened the portal after being freed from the chains, which likely hindered what power he still had.

>

> Then Balthazar wasn't a mortal.

Never claimed otherwise, just that he wasn't a full fledged god, but a former god. More than mortal, less than god.

 

> @"Daniel Handler.4816" said:

> I don't know what "not even Rytlock" means. He didn't create the discipline, he learned it from Glint. He doesn't display any spellcasting prowess like Kasmeer, much less Jennah.

 

Original statement was "Not even Rytlock could get back to Tyria from The Mists though. He needed the help of a former god." in response to a discussion that originally stemmed from you proclaiming Zeghai must be a ritualist because, like Rytlock, he travels through the Mists. Basically, my responses have been, to quote Luke: "Everything you just said is wrong."

 

> @"Daniel Handler.4816" said:

> The concept that mortals can't enter the Mists without external aid is like saying wells require corpses, exit portals must be placed first, you can't blink through jail cell walls, or rangers don't use spells.

>

> Clearly they have found a way.

And thus we enter the realm of Daniel Handler once again twisting responses to make others look the self-contradicting fools. I only said the very first thing, you know.

 

Certainly never said one cannot blink through jail cells or that rangers don't use spells (the latter is obviously false due to the two elite specializations even if you ignored half of the ranger's skills being very obviously magical).

 

What I _did_ say was that revenants don't go willy nilly traveling the Mists to pop up on the other side of the continent on their own capabilities. Their capabilities and their "invisibility" skills like sword 3 or their dodge effect, mirrors more what the mursaat were capable of. Which was not full-fledged walking into the Mists but, like souls, going partway into the Mists.

 

> @"CETheLucid.3964" said:

> Yeah. Maybe. We can't be sure his fall was exactly 200 years ago, but somewhere there between the gods firmly stepping back from Tyria and the stirring of the recent elder dragon cycle. It could have been a relatively recent development or it could have been a good while back.

 

In regards to when Balthazar's fall would be, "200 years" is me estimating. However, we know that it was post-GW1, while close to GW1, because 1) Kormir was present and 2) the entire discussion that sparked Balthazar's manchild rebellion was the other gods wanting to leave the space near Tyria (ergo, cause the silence of the gods).

 

Since said discussion of leaving was due to the awakening of the Elder Dragons, and both Primordus' and DSD's awakening (most likely) happened around the same time 200 years ago, 200 years ago is most likely. But overall, "250-200" is most probably timeperiod. Estimate to 200 for ease.

 

> @"CETheLucid.3964" said:

> And although Balthazar certainly wasn't in possession of his full divinity, I'm certain there was a bit left of his original alien magic that's completely different from Tyria that got eaten up between Kralkatorrik and Aurene.

>

> I wonder how that's going to turn out? Or if it'll even matter? Maybe I'm off the mark with that. Maybe by the end of Season 4 we'll know who the new god of war is.

 

All evidence suggests that divine / foreign-from-Tyria magic is actually either counter, immune, or both to dragon corruption/consumption. The main evidence being the Forgotten, Divine Torch, and Foefire, as well as how Balthazar literally walked through a horde of destroyers and stood in front of Primordus long enough to erect three barriers and move Taimi's Machine into position while the Commander talked to an ancient golem and freed four ancient druid spirits.

[Tyson.5160]

> > @"CETheLucid.3964" said:

> > Yeah. Maybe. We can't be sure his fall was exactly 200 years ago, but somewhere there between the gods firmly stepping back from Tyria and the stirring of the recent elder dragon cycle. It could have been a relatively recent development or it could have been a good while back.

>

> In regards to when Balthazar's fall would be, "200 years" is me estimating. However, we know that it was post-GW1, while close to GW1, because 1) Kormir was present and 2) the entire discussion that sparked Balthazar's manchild rebellion was the other gods wanting to leave the space near Tyria (ergo, cause the silence of the gods).

>

> Since said discussion of leaving was due to the awakening of the Elder Dragons, and both Primordus' and DSD's awakening (most likely) happened around the same time 200 years ago, 200 years ago is most likely. But overall, "250-200" is most probably timeperiod. Estimate to 200 for ease.

 

I have always wondered about this and I was hoping for more of an answer from Anet during Path of Fire. Balthazar had a bit of a hissy fit regarding the other gods not fighting the dragon’s. I was hoping that Anet would explain that Balthazar had actually beat Menzies and destroyed his shadow army in the fissure of woe. It would explain why he was so antsy for a big war and battle after the conflict in FoW ended. Never happened, though we can speculate by certain item names like Menzies agony and fate of Menzies. Had they explained this part a bit more, I think it may given his character a bit more depth. For all we know, Menzies could have been dealt with just after GW1, which left Balthazar bored with nothing to do, but look forward to the next big fight. It’s like when Marines get addict to combat and who knows how long he had been waiting. Next thing he knows, he sees a large scale conflict with the Elder Dragons, which I’m sure excited him. Then the other gods disagree, leaving him steaming and frustrated.

 

 

 

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

Given the entire lack of mention of Menzies in Path of Fire, I'm holding onto the theory that Menzies doesn't actually exist but is just a personification Balthazar created in order to give his soldiers things to do. Like playing chess with oneself.

 

This is actually supported a tad bit in Path of Fire, as the banners of the Forged are almost exact duplicates of the banners of the Shadow Army from the Fissure of Woe.