When they finally nerf scourge and mesmer?

[whoknocks.4935]

In both pvp and wvw they are just a plague, scourge in both gamemodes, mesmer mainly in pvp, but also abused by roamer who never wanna die (saw one mirage able to troll 5 people spamming clones and in a matter of seconds he was already at 3000 range).

 

Scourge shades should pulse once only.

 

In a 1vs1 scenario in wvw you encounter a scourge, he place a shade under your feets, you dodge it out, he place another and dodge that too, he place another one that cripple, chills, torment and fear you, you cleanse, he has already on cd another shade to place under your feet again and you are out of cd and die by 15 condis. Talking of cheesy trailblazer scourges which absorb more damage than a spellbreaker.

 

Make the shade an ability which pulses once and vanish. So they actually have to think when you place it and when to use the Fskills instead of pressing them random and win regardless.

 

Mesmer: set a clone cap at 5. I wanted at 3, but maybe it's too exagerated.

[Uvirith.9573]

But... Clones are caped at 3 and have always been, and fantasms die right after their first strike.

[Hoodie.1045]

> @"whoknocks.4935" said:

> In both pvp and wvw they are just a plague, scourge in both gamemodes, mesmer mainly in pvp, but also abused by roamer who never wanna die (saw one mirage able to troll 5 people spamming clones and in a matter of seconds he was already at 3000 range).

>

> Scourge shades should pulse once only.

>

> In a 1vs1 scenario in wvw you encounter a scourge, he place a shade under your feets, you dodge it out, he place another and dodge that too, he place another one that cripple, chills, torment and fear you, you cleanse, he has already on cd another shade to place under your feet again and you are out of cd and die by 15 condis. Talking of cheesy trailblazer scourges which absorb more damage than a spellbreaker.

>

> Make the shade an ability which pulses once and vanish. So they actually have to think when you place it and when to use the Fskills instead of pressing them random and win regardless.

>

> Mesmer: set a clone cap at 5. I wanted at 3, but maybe it's too exagerated.

> think when you place it and when to use the Fskills instead of pressing them random and win regardless.

 

Scourge is slowly getting nerfed. I wish they nerfed Scourge by making shade skills have cast time rather than being instant cast and buffed core and Reaper sooner. One day, Scourge will get nerfed and core and Reaper will be viable once again.

 

The mesmer is ArenaNets' most favorite profession, so don't expect them to nerf the profession hard any time. You can tell from the balance patches that they are not being as harsh towards the mesmer as the other professions.

[Yakez.7561]

From WvW standpoint Scourge in current form need to go. But problem then is Firebrand that is the counter to Scourge.

 

So Scourge need to retain boon strip to counter Firebrand boon spam. And Scourge really have great support with barrier and sand portal. But condi spam need to go 100%.

 

Having whole meta revolving around 1 class is not healthy. Having like 10% scorges in zerg to have boon strip, barrier and portal support would be way batter.

[rank eleven monk.9502]

> @"Uvirith.9573" said:

> But... Clones are caped at 3 and have always been, and fantasms die right after their first strike.

But but but they are permanently invulnerable!

[whoknocks.4935]

> @"Uvirith.9573" said:

> But... Clones are caped at 3 and have always been, and fantasms die right after their first strike.

 

They are not capped at 3 when the screen is filled with 10 plus clones every second.

 

I mean not able to spawn more than 3-5 clones/phantasms in the screen. Like impossible to have 6 or 7 or 8.

Now mesmer just spam 10 clones shatter, another 10 clones, and they don't seem to die after their first hit tbh.

[OriOri.8724]

> @"whoknocks.4935" said:

> > @"Uvirith.9573" said:

> > But... Clones are caped at 3 and have always been, and fantasms die right after their first strike.

>

> They are not capped at 3 when the screen is filled with 10 plus clones every second.

>

> I mean not able to spawn more than 3-5 clones/phantasms in the screen. Like impossible to have 6 or 7 or 8.

> Now mesmer just spam 10 clones shatter, another 10 clones, and they don't seem to die after their first hit tbh.

 

A mesmer cannot have more than 3 clones out at a time that haven't been shattered yet.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

I love how when there's a nerf request on the forums, more often than not it is delivered with shameless hyperbole that implies the poster took absolutely no time to look at how the class functions so they could attempt to identify specific parts of the build that need nerfing, and then people get outraged when Anet apparently ignores them.

 

Thank goodness that's not happening here.

 

On a serious note though, most people who do not play mesmer will use "Clone" as a catch all term for "phantasm" and "clone" because they don't know enough about the class to make this distinction. Whether that cheapens their argument or not is up to whoever, idk; but if someone is saying "ten clones" and you know very well you can approach ten illusions at any one point, including those that have been shattered and phantasms resummoning themselves, they have a point, it's just not framed in the correct terms . Visual clutter is a thing.

[Seth.8906]

> @"OriOri.8724" said:

> > @"whoknocks.4935" said:

> > > @"Uvirith.9573" said:

> > > But... Clones are caped at 3 and have always been, and fantasms die right after their first strike.

> >

> > They are not capped at 3 when the screen is filled with 10 plus clones every second.

> >

> > I mean not able to spawn more than 3-5 clones/phantasms in the screen. Like impossible to have 6 or 7 or 8.

> > Now mesmer just spam 10 clones shatter, another 10 clones, and they don't seem to die after their first hit tbh.

>

> A mesmer cannot have more than 3 clones out at a time that haven't been shattered yet.

 

You can have 3 clone + X phantom pre rework was 3 clone/phantom

Phantom do 1 attack then with trait they return another attack heal sigil phantom recarge repeat

[whoknocks.4935]

> @"OriOri.8724" said:

> > @"whoknocks.4935" said:

> > > @"Uvirith.9573" said:

> > > But... Clones are caped at 3 and have always been, and fantasms die right after their first strike.

> >

> > They are not capped at 3 when the screen is filled with 10 plus clones every second.

> >

> > I mean not able to spawn more than 3-5 clones/phantasms in the screen. Like impossible to have 6 or 7 or 8.

> > Now mesmer just spam 10 clones shatter, another 10 clones, and they don't seem to die after their first hit tbh.

>

> A mesmer cannot have more than 3 clones out at a time that haven't been shattered yet.

 

Illusions then. Fighting 1 mirage spamming 10 clones on the screen is just unfun and frustating, and it's not a l2p issue, add the invulns, evades, it's just a profession who needs to be gutted down. An average player killing a better one just because the profession is so low skill but high reward it's not fair.

 

Every profession has a counter. A god mirage has no counters. Only another mirage.

[Felipe.1807]

> @"Uvirith.9573" said:

> But... Clones are caped at 3 and have always been, and fantasms die right after their first strike.

 

oh jesus man, clones, phantasm, ilusions, fucking pink piece of shit, call whatever you want, you know what he is talking about...mesmer can spam so much AI that it can make even the character model to not render correctly and make the mesmer player literally invisible, this is a problem.

[Ithilwen.1529]

> @"Hoodie.1045" said:

> > @"whoknocks.4935" said:

> > In both pvp and wvw they are just a plague, scourge in both gamemodes, mesmer mainly in pvp, but also abused by roamer who never wanna die (saw one mirage able to troll 5 people spamming clones and in a matter of seconds he was already at 3000 range).

> >

> > Scourge shades should pulse once only.

> >

> > In a 1vs1 scenario in wvw you encounter a scourge, he place a shade under your feets, you dodge it out, he place another and dodge that too, he place another one that cripple, chills, torment and fear you, you cleanse, he has already on cd another shade to place under your feet again and you are out of cd and die by 15 condis. Talking of cheesy trailblazer scourges which absorb more damage than a spellbreaker.

> >

> > Make the shade an ability which pulses once and vanish. So they actually have to think when you place it and when to use the Fskills instead of pressing them random and win regardless.

> >

> > Mesmer: set a clone cap at 5. I wanted at 3, but maybe it's too exagerated.

> > think when you place it and when to use the Fskills instead of pressing them random and win regardless.

>

> Scourge is slowly getting nerfed. I wish they nerfed Scourge by making shade skills have cast time rather than being instant cast and buffed core and Reaper sooner. One day, Scourge will get nerfed and core and Reaper will be viable once again.

>

> The mesmer is ArenaNets' most favorite profession, so don't expect them to nerf the profession hard any time. You can tell from the balance patches that they are not being as harsh towards the mesmer as the other professions.

 

This is just deeply inaccurate.. perhaps you don't remember the **YEARS** we went as "trash tier" after the big glamour nerf when you couldn't get on a team as a Mesmer... or the cuts (in less than 45 minutes,) that destroyed chronomancer? If anything ANET has been especially harsh at making sure Mesmer doesn't have an edge...

 

Our signature move, Moa.. now an engi trick.. it's nerfed so hard it's unusable for Mesmer... Alacrity now given to revenant...Elusive mind nerfed, Prismatic understanding heavily nerfed, sword nerfed in multiple ways... clone death completely removed from the game... pistol nerfed...Mobility and juking specifically cut down for elevation change. No ANET has been, if anything, over cautious to make sure Mesmer can't get ahead.

 

TLDR It's time to learn to play.

[bLind.6278]

> @"Ithilwen.1529" said:

> > @"Hoodie.1045" said:

> > > @"whoknocks.4935" said:

> > > In both pvp and wvw they are just a plague, scourge in both gamemodes, mesmer mainly in pvp, but also abused by roamer who never wanna die (saw one mirage able to troll 5 people spamming clones and in a matter of seconds he was already at 3000 range).

> > >

> > > Scourge shades should pulse once only.

> > >

> > > In a 1vs1 scenario in wvw you encounter a scourge, he place a shade under your feets, you dodge it out, he place another and dodge that too, he place another one that cripple, chills, torment and fear you, you cleanse, he has already on cd another shade to place under your feet again and you are out of cd and die by 15 condis. Talking of cheesy trailblazer scourges which absorb more damage than a spellbreaker.

> > >

> > > Make the shade an ability which pulses once and vanish. So they actually have to think when you place it and when to use the Fskills instead of pressing them random and win regardless.

> > >

> > > Mesmer: set a clone cap at 5. I wanted at 3, but maybe it's too exagerated.

> > > think when you place it and when to use the Fskills instead of pressing them random and win regardless.

> >

> > Scourge is slowly getting nerfed. I wish they nerfed Scourge by making shade skills have cast time rather than being instant cast and buffed core and Reaper sooner. One day, Scourge will get nerfed and core and Reaper will be viable once again.

> >

> > The mesmer is ArenaNets' most favorite profession, so don't expect them to nerf the profession hard any time. You can tell from the balance patches that they are not being as harsh towards the mesmer as the other professions.

>

> This is just deeply inaccurate.. perhaps you don't remember the **YEARS** we went as "trash tier" after the big glamour nerf when you couldn't get on a team as a Mesmer... or the cuts (in less than 45 minutes,) that destroyed chronomancer? If anything ANET has been especially harsh at making sure Mesmer doesn't have an edge...

>

> Our signature move, Moa.. now an engi trick.. it's nerfed so hard it's unusable for Mesmer... Alacrity now given to revenant...Elusive mind nerfed, Prismatic understanding heavily nerfed, sword nerfed in multiple ways... clone death completely removed from the game... pistol nerfed...Mobility and juking specifically cut down for elevation change. No ANET has been, if anything, over cautious to make sure Mesmer can't get ahead.

>

> TLDR It's time to learn to play.

 

TLDR the only good players in the game just happen to all play mesmer, which is a perfectly balanced class and not OP in any way whatsoever, nor has it ever been. In fact, mesmer should probably be buffed because they can still die in rare circumstances.

[Sampson.2403]

> @"whoknocks.4935" said:

> > @"OriOri.8724" said:

> > > @"whoknocks.4935" said:

> > > > @"Uvirith.9573" said:

> > > > But... Clones are caped at 3 and have always been, and fantasms die right after their first strike.

> > >

> > > They are not capped at 3 when the screen is filled with 10 plus clones every second.

> > >

> > > I mean not able to spawn more than 3-5 clones/phantasms in the screen. Like impossible to have 6 or 7 or 8.

> > > Now mesmer just spam 10 clones shatter, another 10 clones, and they don't seem to die after their first hit tbh.

> >

> > A mesmer cannot have more than 3 clones out at a time that haven't been shattered yet.

>

> Illusions then. Fighting 1 mirage spamming 10 clones on the screen is just unfun and frustating, and it's not a l2p issue, add the invulns, evades, it's just a profession who needs to be gutted down. An average player killing a better one just because the profession is so low skill but high reward it's not fair.

>

> Every profession has a counter. A god mirage has no counters. Only another mirage.

 

There's no mirage build that anyones using that will have 10 illusions (3 clones plus 7 phantasms up at once). The most ur gonna get against a mirage is 6 illusions and thats pushing it. Ur barely gonna see this combo, but it would be the following:

 

6 = 3 clones, plus 2 warlocks and 1 torch phantasm

[mortrialus.3062]

> @"Ithilwen.1529" said:

> > @"Hoodie.1045" said:

> > > @"whoknocks.4935" said:

> > > In both pvp and wvw they are just a plague, scourge in both gamemodes, mesmer mainly in pvp, but also abused by roamer who never wanna die (saw one mirage able to troll 5 people spamming clones and in a matter of seconds he was already at 3000 range).

> > >

> > > Scourge shades should pulse once only.

> > >

> > > In a 1vs1 scenario in wvw you encounter a scourge, he place a shade under your feets, you dodge it out, he place another and dodge that too, he place another one that cripple, chills, torment and fear you, you cleanse, he has already on cd another shade to place under your feet again and you are out of cd and die by 15 condis. Talking of cheesy trailblazer scourges which absorb more damage than a spellbreaker.

> > >

> > > Make the shade an ability which pulses once and vanish. So they actually have to think when you place it and when to use the Fskills instead of pressing them random and win regardless.

> > >

> > > Mesmer: set a clone cap at 5. I wanted at 3, but maybe it's too exagerated.

> > > think when you place it and when to use the Fskills instead of pressing them random and win regardless.

> >

> > Scourge is slowly getting nerfed. I wish they nerfed Scourge by making shade skills have cast time rather than being instant cast and buffed core and Reaper sooner. One day, Scourge will get nerfed and core and Reaper will be viable once again.

> >

> > The mesmer is ArenaNets' most favorite profession, so don't expect them to nerf the profession hard any time. You can tell from the balance patches that they are not being as harsh towards the mesmer as the other professions.

>

> This is just deeply inaccurate.. perhaps you don't remember the **YEARS** we went as "trash tier" after the big glamour nerf when you couldn't get on a team as a Mesmer... or the cuts (in less than 45 minutes,) that destroyed chronomancer? If anything ANET has been especially harsh at making sure Mesmer doesn't have an edge...

>

> Our signature move, Moa.. now an engi trick.. it's nerfed so hard it's unusable for Mesmer... Alacrity now given to revenant...Elusive mind nerfed, Prismatic understanding heavily nerfed, sword nerfed in multiple ways... clone death completely removed from the game... pistol nerfed...Mobility and juking specifically cut down for elevation change. No ANET has been, if anything, over cautious to make sure Mesmer can't get ahead.

>

> TLDR It's time to learn to play.

 

The only time Chrono was not a top tier build was when Mirage first came out and power crept it out of the meta until the phantasm update. That was like 4 months. And Chronobunker's original nerfing came because the original incarnation of chronomancer literally, literally, was an unkillable monster that would stall out entire games with zero deaths with games running out of time with point scores in the single digits. It literally broke the game. You're the only person I've ever heard complain about the nerfing to Heart of Thorn Chronobunker.

 

I wouldn't call Moa our signature move. That would be portal, which is still one of a kind. But Elixer X, an elite that let's them use weaker versions of other classes' elites, is such a weird thing to be upset over. Warriors, elementatists, and necros aren't upset about Elixer X or feel like it's a huge affront to their class integrity.

 

Just because something was nerfed doesn't mean therefore it is now bad. In fact everything you mentioned is still top tier. Sword was nerfed? Sword is the best weapon for mesmer in both PvE and PvP still. It's so good it gets used in condition damage builds despite it not being a condi weapon in any way. I don't know what nerf you're specifically talking about, but if it's still one of the best weapon sets in the game after getting nerfed it probably deserved to get nerfed. Mobility is top tier with the Mirage specialization only surpassed by thieves.

 

[Blocki.4931]

They nerfed mes phantasm damage by 50% on resummon and the skill doesn't 100% refresh their phantasm cooldowns anymore. Seems very close to balanced honestly.

 

Scourge isn't that bad either imo. It's not as faceroll as it used to be and got quite a bit harder over time. in what it does, it's alright and not broken. Just when you toss 20 of them in a group its when they become really hard to deal with.

[Dralor.3701]

Something needs to be done about the scourge aoe and mirage/chrono still have no counter.

 

With all the evades, mobility, invis, mirage is a zero risk high reward spec. If thief was at the mirage level there would be riots in the streets.

[Ithilwen.1529]

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > @"Ithilwen.1529" said:

> > > @"Hoodie.1045" said:

> > > > @"whoknocks.4935" said:

> > > > In both pvp and wvw they are just a plague, scourge in both gamemodes, mesmer mainly in pvp, but also abused by roamer who never wanna die (saw one mirage able to troll 5 people spamming clones and in a matter of seconds he was already at 3000 range).

> > > >

> > > > Scourge shades should pulse once only.

> > > >

> > > > In a 1vs1 scenario in wvw you encounter a scourge, he place a shade under your feets, you dodge it out, he place another and dodge that too, he place another one that cripple, chills, torment and fear you, you cleanse, he has already on cd another shade to place under your feet again and you are out of cd and die by 15 condis. Talking of cheesy trailblazer scourges which absorb more damage than a spellbreaker.

> > > >

> > > > Make the shade an ability which pulses once and vanish. So they actually have to think when you place it and when to use the Fskills instead of pressing them random and win regardless.

> > > >

> > > > Mesmer: set a clone cap at 5. I wanted at 3, but maybe it's too exagerated.

> > > > think when you place it and when to use the Fskills instead of pressing them random and win regardless.

> > >

> > > Scourge is slowly getting nerfed. I wish they nerfed Scourge by making shade skills have cast time rather than being instant cast and buffed core and Reaper sooner. One day, Scourge will get nerfed and core and Reaper will be viable once again.

> > >

> > > The mesmer is ArenaNets' most favorite profession, so don't expect them to nerf the profession hard any time. You can tell from the balance patches that they are not being as harsh towards the mesmer as the other professions.

> >

> > This is just deeply inaccurate.. perhaps you don't remember the **YEARS** we went as "trash tier" after the big glamour nerf when you couldn't get on a team as a Mesmer... or the cuts (in less than 45 minutes,) that destroyed chronomancer? If anything ANET has been especially harsh at making sure Mesmer doesn't have an edge...

> >

> > Our signature move, Moa.. now an engi trick.. it's nerfed so hard it's unusable for Mesmer... Alacrity now given to revenant...Elusive mind nerfed, Prismatic understanding heavily nerfed, sword nerfed in multiple ways... clone death completely removed from the game... pistol nerfed...Mobility and juking specifically cut down for elevation change. No ANET has been, if anything, over cautious to make sure Mesmer can't get ahead.

> >

> > TLDR It's time to learn to play.

>

> The only time Chrono was not a top tier build was when Mirage first came out and power crept it out of the meta until the phantasm update. That was like 4 months. And Chronobunker's original nerfing came because the original incarnation of chronomancer literally, literally, was an unkillable monster that would stall out entire games with zero deaths with games running out of time with point scores in the single digits. It literally broke the game. You're the only person I've ever heard complain about the nerfing to Heart of Thorn Chronobunker.

>

> I wouldn't call Moa our signature move. That would be portal, which is still one of a kind. But Elixer X, an elite that let's them use weaker versions of other classes' elites, is such a weird thing to be upset over. Warriors, elementatists, and necros aren't upset about Elixer X or feel like it's a huge affront to their class integrity.

>

> Just because something was nerfed doesn't mean therefore it is now bad. In fact everything you mentioned is still top tier. Sword was nerfed? Sword is the best weapon for mesmer in both PvE and PvP still. It's so good it gets used in condition damage builds despite it not being a condi weapon in any way. I don't know what nerf you're specifically talking about, but if it's still one of the best weapon sets in the game after getting nerfed it probably deserved to get nerfed. Mobility is top tier with the Mirage specialization only surpassed by thieves.

>

 

The nerf to chronobunker was at the behest of the "pro league." *It had been publicly stated that mid season nerfs would not happen.*

 

Yes, moa was the signature move of Mesmer. Sadly it's been nerfed to the point that it's not usable in PvP. Now if you see it used, it's on Engi.

 

Sword leap was heavily nerfed , a major defensive downgrade. In addition distortion ( sword 2) has been repeatedly cut back and it's defense value gutted.

 

**It comes down to this; I can't trust that something I learn or use is going to stay available. The chorus of nerf calls usually drowns a Mesmer skill if it is effective. Soon we'll be just another sword swinging class.**

 

[Auturgist.8256]

> @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> [...] Visual clutter is a thing.

 

And visual clutter is what both these classes have in common. PvP is such a visual shit-storm right now, and the two classes who most contribute to it are two of the most broken classes in the game right now, so fuck it. I had my forum account suspended over two weeks ago for protesting the balance team's inability to fix PvP, and I quit playing at the same time... haven't missed it one bit.

 

Semi-related: GW1 just got a visual update, and the PvP in that game was so amazing! Maybe I'll check that out again...

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"Dralor.3701" said:

> Something needs to be done about the scourge aoe and mirage/chrono still have no counter.

>

> With all the evades, mobility, invis, mirage is a zero risk high reward spec. If thief was at the mirage level there would be riots in the streets.

 

Thief has been far beyond mirage levels in WvW since 2012 yet the riots are always ignored by Anet, imagine that huh.

 

[Daishi.6027]

It's funny how many people I've met in game who complain about Mesmers only to find out they have auto targeting on.

 

[Dralor.3701]

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > @"Dralor.3701" said:

> > Something needs to be done about the scourge aoe and mirage/chrono still have no counter.

> >

> > With all the evades, mobility, invis, mirage is a zero risk high reward spec. If thief was at the mirage level there would be riots in the streets.

>

> Thief has been far beyond mirage levels in WvW since 2012 yet the riots are always ignored by Anet, imagine that huh.

>

 

What? I’m not even sure what you’re trying to say with it written like this.

[EpicTurtle.8571]

> @"Dralor.3701" said:

> Something needs to be done about the scourge aoe and mirage/chrono still have no counter.

>

> With all the evades, mobility, invis, mirage is a zero risk high reward spec. If thief was at the mirage level there would be riots in the streets.

 

_We only have 3 sources of non telegraphed stealth each with at least a 30 second cooldown. There is not an, 'all the invis' to Mesmer._

 

 

[Oneira.7691]

The endless whining about mesmers and scourges (it used to be about thieves and guardian bunker builds) is why I don't play pvp anymore.

 

I've been killed by scourges more times than I have hours in my life, but I don't come on here screaming for them to be nerfed. I just try to figure out how to deal with them better. If they happen to be 1st tier, well then someone's going to be. If you nerf mesmer and scourge into the ground, then some other class(es) is going to dominate and the calls for nerfs will go on and won.

[Math.5123]

> @"Ithilwen.1529" said:

> > @"Hoodie.1045" said:

> > > @"whoknocks.4935" said:

> > > In both pvp and wvw they are just a plague, scourge in both gamemodes, mesmer mainly in pvp, but also abused by roamer who never wanna die (saw one mirage able to troll 5 people spamming clones and in a matter of seconds he was already at 3000 range).

> > >

> > > Scourge shades should pulse once only.

> > >

> > > In a 1vs1 scenario in wvw you encounter a scourge, he place a shade under your feets, you dodge it out, he place another and dodge that too, he place another one that cripple, chills, torment and fear you, you cleanse, he has already on cd another shade to place under your feet again and you are out of cd and die by 15 condis. Talking of cheesy trailblazer scourges which absorb more damage than a spellbreaker.

> > >

> > > Make the shade an ability which pulses once and vanish. So they actually have to think when you place it and when to use the Fskills instead of pressing them random and win regardless.

> > >

> > > Mesmer: set a clone cap at 5. I wanted at 3, but maybe it's too exagerated.

> > > think when you place it and when to use the Fskills instead of pressing them random and win regardless.

> >

> > Scourge is slowly getting nerfed. I wish they nerfed Scourge by making shade skills have cast time rather than being instant cast and buffed core and Reaper sooner. One day, Scourge will get nerfed and core and Reaper will be viable once again.

> >

> > The mesmer is ArenaNets' most favorite profession, so don't expect them to nerf the profession hard any time. You can tell from the balance patches that they are not being as harsh towards the mesmer as the other professions.

>

> This is just deeply inaccurate.. perhaps you don't remember the **YEARS** we went as "trash tier" after the big glamour nerf when you couldn't get on a team as a Mesmer... or the cuts (in less than 45 minutes,) that destroyed chronomancer? If anything ANET has been especially harsh at making sure Mesmer doesn't have an edge...

>

> Our signature move, Moa.. now an engi trick.. it's nerfed so hard it's unusable for Mesmer... Alacrity now given to revenant...Elusive mind nerfed, Prismatic understanding heavily nerfed, sword nerfed in multiple ways... clone death completely removed from the game... pistol nerfed...Mobility and juking specifically cut down for elevation change. No ANET has been, if anything, over cautious to make sure Mesmer can't get ahead.

>

> TLDR It's time to learn to play.

 

> @"Ithilwen.1529" said:

> > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > @"Ithilwen.1529" said:

> > > > @"Hoodie.1045" said:

> > > > > @"whoknocks.4935" said:

> > > > > In both pvp and wvw they are just a plague, scourge in both gamemodes, mesmer mainly in pvp, but also abused by roamer who never wanna die (saw one mirage able to troll 5 people spamming clones and in a matter of seconds he was already at 3000 range).

> > > > >

> > > > > Scourge shades should pulse once only.

> > > > >

> > > > > In a 1vs1 scenario in wvw you encounter a scourge, he place a shade under your feets, you dodge it out, he place another and dodge that too, he place another one that cripple, chills, torment and fear you, you cleanse, he has already on cd another shade to place under your feet again and you are out of cd and die by 15 condis. Talking of cheesy trailblazer scourges which absorb more damage than a spellbreaker.

> > > > >

> > > > > Make the shade an ability which pulses once and vanish. So they actually have to think when you place it and when to use the Fskills instead of pressing them random and win regardless.

> > > > >

> > > > > Mesmer: set a clone cap at 5. I wanted at 3, but maybe it's too exagerated.

> > > > > think when you place it and when to use the Fskills instead of pressing them random and win regardless.

> > > >

> > > > Scourge is slowly getting nerfed. I wish they nerfed Scourge by making shade skills have cast time rather than being instant cast and buffed core and Reaper sooner. One day, Scourge will get nerfed and core and Reaper will be viable once again.

> > > >

> > > > The mesmer is ArenaNets' most favorite profession, so don't expect them to nerf the profession hard any time. You can tell from the balance patches that they are not being as harsh towards the mesmer as the other professions.

> > >

> > > This is just deeply inaccurate.. perhaps you don't remember the **YEARS** we went as "trash tier" after the big glamour nerf when you couldn't get on a team as a Mesmer... or the cuts (in less than 45 minutes,) that destroyed chronomancer? If anything ANET has been especially harsh at making sure Mesmer doesn't have an edge...

> > >

> > > Our signature move, Moa.. now an engi trick.. it's nerfed so hard it's unusable for Mesmer... Alacrity now given to revenant...Elusive mind nerfed, Prismatic understanding heavily nerfed, sword nerfed in multiple ways... clone death completely removed from the game... pistol nerfed...Mobility and juking specifically cut down for elevation change. No ANET has been, if anything, over cautious to make sure Mesmer can't get ahead.

> > >

> > > TLDR It's time to learn to play.

> >

> > The only time Chrono was not a top tier build was when Mirage first came out and power crept it out of the meta until the phantasm update. That was like 4 months. And Chronobunker's original nerfing came because the original incarnation of chronomancer literally, literally, was an unkillable monster that would stall out entire games with zero deaths with games running out of time with point scores in the single digits. It literally broke the game. You're the only person I've ever heard complain about the nerfing to Heart of Thorn Chronobunker.

> >

> > I wouldn't call Moa our signature move. That would be portal, which is still one of a kind. But Elixer X, an elite that let's them use weaker versions of other classes' elites, is such a weird thing to be upset over. Warriors, elementatists, and necros aren't upset about Elixer X or feel like it's a huge affront to their class integrity.

> >

> > Just because something was nerfed doesn't mean therefore it is now bad. In fact everything you mentioned is still top tier. Sword was nerfed? Sword is the best weapon for mesmer in both PvE and PvP still. It's so good it gets used in condition damage builds despite it not being a condi weapon in any way. I don't know what nerf you're specifically talking about, but if it's still one of the best weapon sets in the game after getting nerfed it probably deserved to get nerfed. Mobility is top tier with the Mirage specialization only surpassed by thieves.

> >

>

> The nerf to chronobunker was at the behest of the "pro league." *It had been publicly stated that mid season nerfs would not happen.*

>

> Yes, moa was the signature move of Mesmer. Sadly it's been nerfed to the point that it's not usable in PvP. Now if you see it used, it's on Engi.

>

> Sword leap was heavily nerfed , a major defensive downgrade. In addition distortion ( sword 2) has been repeatedly cut back and it's defense value gutted.

>

> **It comes down to this; I can't trust that something I learn or use is going to stay available. The chorus of nerf calls usually drowns a Mesmer skill if it is effective. Soon we'll be just another sword swinging class.**

>

 

Stop embarrassing yourself. Mesmer has "never" been trash-tier. Portal has always and will always keep the class in the meta regardless of how terrible the class in itself is. Your arguments is like saying Thief is the worst class in the game because P/D Barbarian thief is not viable. Also, Mesmers got Invis, Mobility and Burst potential which was the core philosophy for thieves.

They have Boon-based sustain and support, which was the core philosophy for Guardians.

They have Boon-rip and condition based builds, which was the core philosophy for Necromancers.

 

See how no class remains the integrity they had at launch? Mesmer is and has been for the majority of the games life-span, one of the strongest if not **the strongest** class in PvP. The sheer value a portal gives to a team is un-contested.