DREAD.... What is this garb?

[TheDevice.2751]

Man. If there's ever been a showcase for how Anet devs do NOT PLAY NECROMANCERS.

 

This trait is only for conditionmancers. Has no place in a power line... but there it is.

1. As a power necro you'll only ever have MAX 1.75 seconds (you wont be taking any expertise ammy's) to hit somebody with fear. Most of necro's attacks are slow.

2. As a power necro you'll have like zero access to fears aside from boon flips and RS3. Staff doesn't help.

3. A feared enemy is literally moving away from you, diminishing your chances of getting clean hits. This plus we have very little mobility.

 

You just have to play necromancer to take one look at this skill and thing.... W T F is this?

What fantasy world is a power necro really going to ever be able to make this trait significant in their build?

 

Let me state its purpose: PVE. Thats it. I honestly wonder why they just don't have COMPLETELY Separate tree's. Like This whole tree is PVP only while this other tree is for PVE only. They make these tree lines as if they are choices or something. They're not. They're clearly made for certain modes/playstyles. Or just break the top tree line into the PVP tree line while the bottom is for PVE. Dont even bother showing the traits meant for PVE while you're editing in pvp.

 

Some people will say "no. I like the illusion of choice". And to that I say this: whatever.

[Blocki.4931]

That's the trait that gives a %damage increase on feared targets?

 

Well, necro is pretty much the only class with easy access to fear it kinda makes sense, thematically as well. Shows its age however.

[TheDevice.2751]

> @"Blocki.4931" said:

> Shows its age however.

 

This is like a brand new trait. They just came up with this not too long ago. What it shows is how ANET doesn't play necromancers. Thats what it shows.

 

I want to see an ANET employee take this trait and solo queue to legendary on a power necro.

 

These guys have no idea what they're doing lol

[Sephylon.4938]

What makes you think anyone in their right mind would use that trait in pve?

[TheDevice.2751]

> @"Sephylon.4938" said:

> What makes you think anyone in their right mind would use that trait in pve?

 

I would think that it would be easier to fear mobs who wont stunbreak or condi clear in response.

[Dadnir.5038]

The issue with this trait is that players only see the damage increase which is irrelevant due to the fact that our fear don't last long while they should look at the vulnerability gen which is one of the original thematic of the spite traitline.

 

Let's put it simply, the 20% increase of damage is just something to please the eyes.

All the real potential of the skill lie in the fact that, with reaper, when you fear a foe you'll be able to build up to 13 vuln with a single fear and, potentially, with the chill effect, you can even expect 1 or 2 hits with increased damage. **This is a "burst" trait** , designed essentially for PvP and especially for "power reaper". In PvE this trait is probably the worst of the three option that the spite's master traits give to a player.

[Sephylon.4938]

> @"TheDevice.2751" said:

> > @"Sephylon.4938" said:

> > What makes you think anyone in their right mind would use that trait in pve?

>

> I would think that it would be easier to fear mobs who wont stunbreak or condi clear in response.

 

Nope, fear is the last condition anyone would ever want to see on a mob as it forces the mob to split up, making it harder to cleave. Also you'd need to build an entire party/squad built around stacking fear, at which point you may ad well just try epi bouncing with no communication instead.

[NecroSummonsMors.7816]

I think it should be like Peak Perfomance for physical skills on warrior, a bonus % dmg for x seconds after you fear an enemy. Right now that traits is almost unusable.

[Sephylon.4938]

> @"NecroSummonsMors.7816" said:

> I think it should be like Peak Perfomance for physical skills on warrior, a bonus % dmg for x seconds after you fear an enemy. Right now that traits is almost unusable.

 

We'd probably get a watered down version of it, considering awaken the pain is just pinnacle of str that reduces the condi bonus of might. It would prob go something like: applying fear to a target increases your damage and reduces your crit chance for a short duration. 1 sec icd

[Lahmia.2193]

I guess as a consolation prize, it competes with an arguably far superior trait. Awaken the Pain. So there's not much chance you're going to be taking dread anyway.

 

But on the skill itself either have it inflict immobilize whenever you inflict fear (similar to WoW warrior, to represent your foe cowering in fear instead of fleeing - so you have a chance to actually hit them in melee) or as @"NecroSummonsMors.7816" says, acting like Peak Performance.

[ZDragon.3046]

Its mostly worth it for the vuln surprising it it works very well with hybrid condi power builds actually. Fear into axe 2 can lead to big burst damage unexpectedly that said you wont get top power damage if you would have just gone 100% power but you will get higher power damage during a burst than you would have gotten normally in hybrid build.

 

For the few hits you can potentially get during fear it could be 10% from vuln 10% from damage boost on axe 2 because of vuln + 10% from attacking during fear so its not bad but its not good either. Considering this trait got axe a free 10% damage boost on average across all its skills dont be too mad at it. IT could be better for sure but untill anet really choses to give necro a full look over across all its triats like they did for mesmer dont expect anything good.

[Anchoku.8142]

Deathly Chill is the only condi-dps trait in Reaper. You should have expected, or dreaded, Dread in Spite.

 

I would very, very much like to have Reaper's Protection and Fear of Death combined and more access to short duration Fears so an actual build is possible.

[Turtle Dragon.9241]

You dont need to look far to see that Arenanet does not play Necro. Well of Power has been using the wrong icon since last year. They just updated the skill but it is still using the wrong icon. You can be sure anyone would see the icon is wrong if they tested the skill even once. This means they either dont test the skill while after updating it, or dont care about fixing it. They are probably not even aware that there is no viable build Dread could fit in, we would be very lucky to so much as have the trait tested(as in not bugged) before it being released...

 

 

[Crinn.7864]

> @"TheDevice.2751" said:

> This trait is only for conditionmancers. Has no place in a power line... but there it is. Right smack dab in there just to say kitten YOU to power necros.

 

Dread is hardly a "condition" trait. It applies vulnerability which gives a bonus to power damage, and it gives a damage bonus against feared targets which again benefits direct damage.

Or are you simply assuming that because it applies a condition (vuln) that it therefore is a "condi only" trait?

 

If you want to argue that dread is a worse pick than the other two traits in it's tier, that's a perfectly valid position. Saying that dread is bad because it's a "condi trait" is just a total misunderstanding of what the trait does.

[SlippyCheeze.5483]

> @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > @"TheDevice.2751" said:

> > This trait is only for conditionmancers. Has no place in a power line... but there it is. Right smack dab in there just to say kitten YOU to power necros.

>

> Dread is hardly a "condition" trait. It applies vulnerability which gives a bonus to power damage, and it gives a damage bonus against feared targets which again benefits direct damage.

> Or are you simply assuming that because it applies a condition (vuln) that it therefore is a "condi only" trait?

>

> If you want to argue that dread is a worse pick than the other two traits in it's tier, that's a perfectly valid position. Saying that dread is bad because it's a "condi trait" is just a total misunderstanding of what the trait does.

 

Everyone knows that axe 1 is totally a condi-mancer weapon, amirite? ;)

[TheDevice.2751]

> @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > @"TheDevice.2751" said:

> > This trait is only for conditionmancers. Has no place in a power line... but there it is. Right smack dab in there just to say kitten YOU to power necros.

>

> Dread is hardly a "condition" trait. It applies vulnerability which gives a bonus to power damage, and it gives a damage bonus against feared targets which again benefits direct damage.

> Or are you simply assuming that because it applies a condition (vuln) that it therefore is a "condi only" trait?

>

> If you want to argue that dread is a worse pick than the other two traits in it's tier, that's a perfectly valid position. Saying that dread is bad because it's a "condi trait" is just a total misunderstanding of what the trait does.

 

I wasn't even talking about the vuln... but vuln does increase your condi damage. You know that right?

 

"Vulnerability increases condition damage and direct damage on a target."

 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Damage

[Crinn.7864]

> @"TheDevice.2751" said:

> > @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > > @"TheDevice.2751" said:

> > > This trait is only for conditionmancers. Has no place in a power line... but there it is. Right smack dab in there just to say kitten YOU to power necros.

> >

> > Dread is hardly a "condition" trait. It applies vulnerability which gives a bonus to power damage, and it gives a damage bonus against feared targets which again benefits direct damage.

> > Or are you simply assuming that because it applies a condition (vuln) that it therefore is a "condi only" trait?

> >

> > If you want to argue that dread is a worse pick than the other two traits in it's tier, that's a perfectly valid position. Saying that dread is bad because it's a "condi trait" is just a total misunderstanding of what the trait does.

>

> I wasn't even talking about the vuln... but vuln does increase your condi damage. You know that right?

>

> "Vulnerability increases condition damage and direct damage on a target."

>

> https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Damage

 

If you where not talking about vuln when how on earth did you ever associate the Dread trait with condition builds?

[TheDevice.2751]

> @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > @"TheDevice.2751" said:

> > > @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > > > @"TheDevice.2751" said:

> > > > This trait is only for conditionmancers. Has no place in a power line... but there it is. Right smack dab in there just to say kitten YOU to power necros.

> > >

> > > Dread is hardly a "condition" trait. It applies vulnerability which gives a bonus to power damage, and it gives a damage bonus against feared targets which again benefits direct damage.

> > > Or are you simply assuming that because it applies a condition (vuln) that it therefore is a "condi only" trait?

> > >

> > > If you want to argue that dread is a worse pick than the other two traits in it's tier, that's a perfectly valid position. Saying that dread is bad because it's a "condi trait" is just a total misunderstanding of what the trait does.

> >

> > I wasn't even talking about the vuln... but vuln does increase your condi damage. You know that right?

> >

> > "Vulnerability increases condition damage and direct damage on a target."

> >

> > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Damage

>

> If you where not talking about vuln when how on earth did you ever associate the Dread trait with condition builds?

 

In that statement I was talking about just the fear. I was talking about the ability overall and especially fear. Fear duration / condi duration favors condi builds mostly. Also staff is primarily run on condi and condi builds have more boon flips.

 

But you do know vuln effects condi damage right?

[Nimon.7840]

> @"Blocki.4931" said:

> That's the trait that gives a %damage increase on feared targets?

>

> Well, necro is pretty much the only class with easy access to fear it kinda makes sense, thematically as well. Shows its age however.

 

Easy access? Are you kidding me? There is exactly 4 chances to get fear.

1 spectral wall, which is such a bad skill, that nobody will ever take this. Maybe if the extra %dmg would count for everyone hitting the enemy, it would see uses in wvw

2 corrupting stab. Which is pretty inconsistent

3 staff 5, but you won't have any follow up dmg because of staff

4 DS3,rs3,sr4

 

So how is this easy access?

[Lexan.5930]

this trait has a good idea behind it but it's porly implemanted, for a broad spectrum

 

for pvp this trait is perfect if you wanna messa round with different builds. It's a sort fo skill shot to reaper fear bomb and then spin. The problem is that fear doesn't last long enough for the full soul spiral. I wish it was a more consistat burst, similar to guardians 15% while retal is on them.

 

Maybe 10% while having stability on?

[KrHome.1920]

> @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > @"TheDevice.2751" said:

> > This trait is only for conditionmancers. Has no place in a power line... but there it is. Right smack dab in there just to say kitten YOU to power necros.

>

> Dread is hardly a "condition" trait. It applies vulnerability which gives a bonus to power damage, and it gives a damage bonus against feared targets which again benefits direct damage.

> Or are you simply assuming that because it applies a condition (vuln) that it therefore is a "condi only" trait?

>

> If you want to argue that dread is a worse pick than the other two traits in it's tier, that's a perfectly valid position. Saying that dread is bad because it's a "condi trait" is just a total misunderstanding of what the trait does.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vulnerability

 

Vulnerability increses condition damage taken aswell. In addition fear forces your target to move which increases torment damage.

 

Dread benefits from expertise which increases vulnerability and fear duration and is typically found in viper or trailblazer gear.

 

The problem is that this is the fourth trait in the third traitline that is linked to fear. To get the maximum out of this condition you now have to play a spite/curses/soul reaping trailblazer/viper core necro with fear of death, terrifying descent, terror and dread. I did not try this, but in theory this could be pretty strong in some scenarios (esp. teamplay, where you can setup some nice fear-chains without counterplay as you are also able to corrupt stab into a very long lasting fear). I could imagine that anet was afraid of an overpowered fear, so they split up the traits that we can not select all of them on top of an elite specialisation.

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"KrHome.1920" said:

> > @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > > @"TheDevice.2751" said:

> > > This trait is only for conditionmancers. Has no place in a power line... but there it is. Right smack dab in there just to say kitten YOU to power necros.

> >

> > Dread is hardly a "condition" trait. It applies vulnerability which gives a bonus to power damage, and it gives a damage bonus against feared targets which again benefits direct damage.

> > Or are you simply assuming that because it applies a condition (vuln) that it therefore is a "condi only" trait?

> >

> > If you want to argue that dread is a worse pick than the other two traits in it's tier, that's a perfectly valid position. Saying that dread is bad because it's a "condi trait" is just a total misunderstanding of what the trait does.

> https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vulnerability

>

> Vulnerability increses condition damage taken aswell. In addition fear forces your target to move which increases torment damage.

>

> Dread benefits from expertise which increases vulnerability and fear duration and is typically found in viper or trailblazer gear.

>

> The problem is that this is the fourth trait in the third traitline that is linked to fear. To get the maximum out of this condition you now have to play a spite/curses/soul reaping trailblazer/viper core necro with fear of death, terrifying descent, terror and dread. I did not try this, but in theory this could be pretty strong in some scenarios (esp. teamplay, where you can setup some nice fear-chains without counterplay as you are also able to corrupt stab into a very long lasting fear). I could imagine that anet was afraid of an overpowered fear, so they split up the traits that we can not select all of them on top of an elite specialisation.

 

_Dread_ benefit from expertise, yes, but so does _bitter chill_ and _death embrace_ in the spite traitline. Let's be onjective, _dread_ is just a very short window in which the necromancer can deal 30% more direct damage and 10% more condi damage on a foe which doesn't have any condition before the fear effect is applied.

 

Should the trait be in this traitline? Honnestly I don't think it's an issue. In a way, It even allow more build diversity for condition build.

 

Should the trait exist? That's a much more interesting question. Anet push the necromancer toard condi bomb more and more. This leave PvP and WvW's players in turmoil and created this renewed hate for the necromancer for quite some time already. The necromancer's access to fear outside of the stab corruption (which only work against players) is ridiculously low, which make this trait mostly irrelevant in PvE. The necromancer's tools efficiency between PvP and PvE is terribly unbalanced and such trait increase the gap even more. And the more anet will continue to try to fix PvE by giving more PvP centric tools to the necromancer, the more the necromancer will break the game and the PvP playerbase will cry. So should this trait have been introduced at this point of the game? NO!

 

Is anet affraid of fear? Yes they are. They've been exposed to a potent terror effect in the vanilla game that was efficient in PvP/WvW and since then they tried their hardest to keep fear in check on the necromancer. The funiest point is that they always try to keep this love/hate relationship with fear and clumsily end up with way to many traits to enhance/make use of it.

 

Each time anet introduce anything new on the necromancer they keep diging the tomb of this profession. It's sad but I really feel that anet don't like to make the right choice for this profession, they prefer to continue to break it's internal balance more and more, slowly pushing the profession to dangerous height in PvP/WvW and failling at achieving anything good in PvE.

[KrHome.1920]

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

 

> Should the trait be in this traitline? Honnestly I don't think it's an issue. In a way, It even allow more build diversity for condition build.

It's a good pick for a condi procmancer that wants to focus on fear.

 

Procmancer runs spite / curses / x.

 

Awaken the pain is bad for a condi build for obvious reasons.

 

Chill of death deals only power damage (useless on trailblazer) and strips boons, but does not corrupt them.

 

In a fear focused build you don't want to strip stability. You want to corrupt it into a 2 second (+100% duration via gear and traits) fear that proccs a ton of additional effects.

 

Awaken the pain and chill of death are so good for 90% of scenarios, that I am ok with a third niche trait like dread that gives a tiny bit more options.

 

Btw.: I did not test it, but I think the 20% of direct damage increase have a synergy with terror (trait).

[Anchoku.8142]

There are conditions and damaging conditions. People have been confusing the two regarding gear stat's and builds since 2012.

 

Conditionmancer has long been associated with power builds heavy on non-damaging conditions in PvP, hybrid builds in PvP, and bleeding dps builds in PvE. This same discussion keeps reappearing.

 

It was even more confusing back before the massive trait rework when condition duration was part of Spite and maxing scepter dps required a maxing power and condition damage trait lines (Spite and Curses.)

 

Vulnerability, weakness, blind, chill, cripple, fear, and others are all important to sustain and effectiveness for power builds, especially in PvP.

 

Dread is a damage modifier for attacks on a feared opponent so building a power or hybrid stat Fear/Terrormancer and Life Blasting an opponent in the back seems like a valid strategy.

[Funky.4861]

I use fear quite a bit on my scourge, and having the ability to interrupt a skill, deal damage, cc 5-10 mobs with garish pillar and epi that damage out is quite rewarding. Of course i'm using vipers gear so those condi's have some longevity. On the other hand, i tend to solo mostly so i don't care about cleaving (i am careful around other players though, not to fear mobs out of fire fields etc).