[Request/ suggestion] Make dungeons viable endgame content

[Godfather.9058]

I liked dungeons in vanilla. With raids, elite specs and meta events they became obsolete. Barely anyone does dungeons.

 

Implement a system similar to Torment in Diablo 3. Upscale the hp/damage of the mobs and bosses in dungeons while increasing the rewards. That's it.

[DeanBB.4268]

They already did, but renamed them Fractals.

[Linken.6345]

Wont happen they are not getting any new development mate since they are the only dead content anet have on paper.

One could argue that guild missions are the second dead content but anet havent come out and stated they wont develop it further.

 

Its becouse to do so they would have to recode everything from the ground up, due to bad tools and even worse coding on those old dungeons ( were most likely none of the creators are even with the company anymore.)

 

So revamping old dungeons or new content the majority scream for new content to work through and majority rules bud.

[sorudo.9054]

they are not worth doing, i like to get something when doing something moderately challenging and grinding it out for just 1 armor skin is not my idea of fun.

[Orpheal.8263]

The point is, revamping the dungeons, could be done also with adding new content to them ..

 

People always do so, as if not new content could be added also at the same time, if some old content gets reworked..

Naturally isn't new content through reworkign and redesigning old content exactly the same, as like complete new content from scratch that was never there before, but GW2 has been the first game I experienced, where developers willingly abandon their own content, cause they seem not to be convinced about their own skills, that they could make somethign better out of them as it seems.

 

A developer, whos convinced about their own skills, which has the ressources, would never abandon parts of their own made game for an excuse like - its old content that is not worth it to improve it...

 

Even if the initial dungeons shoudl just stay the way how they are, because they are linked also to the games story, this doesnt mean that they can't add just complete new Dungeons as part of an expansion for example... it must not be always now only Raids or Fractals.

 

Some complete new explorable Multipath Dungeons with new Weapon Sets, Armor Sets ect as rewards for their Dungeon Tokens would be also very nice to see, by remimplementing some of the old GW1 dungeons that would be nice to revisit now 250+ years later, to see, what has become out of these ruins, caves and locations in all of this time.

[Hypatia.3160]

There have been dev posts made in various forums (here and reddit) that suggest that there's a significant "technical debt" involved. In other words their infrastructure was so poorly cobbled together that the only way to move forward is to rebuild them. Unfortunately it seems that the devs aren't at all interested in doing that. The resources that should be working on dungeons have been retasked to Fractals.

 

I don't particularly hate Fractals but incentives aside I've found dungeons to be a better experience. Fractals, even T1's, are far more profitable.

 

* Dungeons have a self-contained story. All Fractals share one.

* Fractals are explicitly end game only.

* Fractals seem designed for speed running. Dungeons have some meat to them.

* RNG mechanics (Instabilities here) are a development cop-out. It's a supremely lazy way of extending content that is not at all interesting. If anything they're irritating.

 

In many games, small group content is often used as a way to break up the levelling grind or even offer an alternative levelling path. GW2's dungeons being shunned by the developers has left a gaping hole in their product offering.

[SlippyCheeze.5483]

> @"Orpheal.8263" said:

> The point is, revamping the dungeons, could be done also with adding new content to them ..

 

That is a huge investment of time, requires working with painfully fragile stuff, and technical decisions made before the pain they would cause were known.

 

If you don't add new content, that is a huge investment without any significant payoff at the end.

 

Plus, as @"DeanBB.4268" correctly says, dungeon work continues, under the name "fractals". Would you be happier if the developers had simple called both of them dungeons?

[Orpheal.8263]

Fractals are not the same as Dungeons, only disillusioned people will believe that both are the same and Fractals can replace Dungeons, so it doesnt help anything just to call Fractals simply Dungeons, cause they are by gameplay design not exactly the same.

However, Fractals in themself are a different topic, also a Game Mode, which is in itself still far away from making usage of its maximum game design potential. anet uses maybe eventually only 10% of what they could potentially do with Fractals so far ... thats how i do see it.

 

I could accept them as replacement for Dungeions, if ANet would begin to make more usage of the potential they have with Fractals to make Fractals a far more outstanding interesting and fun game mode, if they would actually use Fractals by design to merge the Dungeons as Sub Content into Fractals.. with some living world changes on the maps with the dungeons entries removing the entries of the dungeons there, destroying them and using the fractal gate and LA as central entry for all dungeons then.

 

However, as long the devs themself have no interest to improve their own game, due to them being forced to put all their ressources into projects only, which can generate more income, we can discuss here so much as we want, nothing will change. Its a pointless discussion in the end, that leads to nowhere, or at least always to the same result of us realizing, that putting ressources into old content won't be done, cause it generates no new money.

 

Thats why I see it as a better investment of ressources, to use it for completely new dungeons, not to rework the old ones. The old ones are just that kind of fail design junk, that deserves it to be buried and be forgotten and thats I guess also, why Anet basically abandonded this part of the game and focused themself onto Fractals.

Complete new Dungeons, which can become part of new content for expansions or living world content, thats what i personally support.

 

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @"Orpheal.8263" said:

> Fractals are not the same as Dungeons, only disillusioned people will believe that both are the same and Fractals can replace Dungeons, so it doesnt help anything just to call Fractals simply Dungeons, cause they are by gameplay design not exactly the same.

 

Fractals are dungeons — even the prompt to enter them says so. It doesn't help to keep repeating the same claim that they are somehow mechanically different.

 

Further, Fractals don't replace the original dungeons, because, perhaps you've noticed, the original dungeons remain in the game. And plenty of people do them regular, just not in the huge numbers we had before there were tons of competing content, including gold farming, 5-person instanced content, and a lot more maps.

 

Regardless of anyone's personal preferences, the developers have been clear on why they stopped work on the original dungeons:

* The original coding was wonky. Changing _anything_ significant is tricky

* They use different tools today that don't work on the original dungeons.

* They don't have much institutional memory as to how things were supposed to work.

* They have a lot of experience attempting to fix, add, update, alter, modify, improve, or otherwise tinker... and it has never turned out to be an unqualified success, not from our reactions nor from the number of adjustments that need to be made after nor for the longevity as the game continues to evolve.

* They have limited amounts of resources: they can't work on all the things worth working on. So they choose and time spent on the original dungeons isn't as useful to as many people as time spent elsewhere.

[SlippyCheeze.5483]

> @"Orpheal.8263" said:

> Fractals are not the same as Dungeons, only disillusioned people will believe that both are the same and Fractals can replace Dungeons, so it doesnt help anything just to call Fractals simply Dungeons, cause they are by gameplay design not exactly the same.

 

If you have suggestions for improving Fractals, you should create a thread for the purpose of outlining them.

 

"Please improve fractals to provide the same enjoyment I get from dungeons, which is " is a very valid, reasonable, and effective way to provide feedback.

 

Asking for dungeons to be revamped is worthless, as that decision has been made, and fractals have replaced them as the locus of development. You are not obliged to agree that this is good, but you should probably face the reality that this decision *has* been made by ANet, and is *not* going to be reversed any time soon.

 

> However, as long the devs themself have no interest to improve their own game

 

ANet continuously improves the game. Again, you are not obliged to like those improvements, but it is flat out denial of reality to say that they are not making them. (Likewise, to say that they are changes but not improvements is ... essentially, an argument that ANet are motivated to make things worse, which is going to be a hard sell anywhere except for the tinfoil hat brigade.)

 

> due to them being forced to put all their ressources into projects only, which can generate more income, we can discuss here so much as we want, nothing will change.

 

If you genuinely believe this, you should leave GW2 for another game that is run in a way you do approve of. As to the statement itself, I'd advise you try and stay clear of speculation about what ANet developers motives are in suggestion threads. You are almost certainly going to be wrong, and while it isn't necessarily relevant to the core of your argument, adding incorrect (and often insulting) assertions to your feedback makes it much more likely the developers will just disregard it because, frankly, who wants to spend time reading around the insults directed at you in the hope of finding some pearl among the kitten?

 

> Complete new Dungeons, which can become part of new content for expansions or living world content, thats what i personally support.

 

Great. How are the different from fractals? Not just "they have paths", but what do the paths look like? How do they work? How do they differ from multiple fractals?