Fractal Legendary Armor

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > > Raids are PvE, Fractals are also niche' content.

> > > Indeed, which is why _the_ PvE legendary armor should not be locked behind any of those contents.

> > >

> >

> > I could really get behind a Open World Style Legendary Armor. Maybe Similar to How Elite Spec Weapons/Class Items Work in the Expansions.

> >

> > Where it's tired to Map Completion/Event Collections, and the like., and linked to the Expansions like PoF (Since PoF is really lacking any kind of Legendary anything)

> >

> > Also, would rather if they did something like that, it was Cultural Style. IE: Charr Legendary Armor, Human Legendary Armor, Etc, Etc.

> >

> > That might make it easier to make the Armor to start with, or even start with needing to collect all tiers of the Specific Cultural Armor, and that would start the Legendary Collection (gotta love a gold sink)

>

> One of my ideas was to use hellfire/radiant skins as precursors. It would have been at once a core (and completely nonexclusive) legendary path, and yet still one that would heavily incentivize you to try many different things.

 

A Legendary version of Hellfire/Radiant that looks less fiery/shinny and then "explodes" when entering combat would be sick. Even without that, Hellfire and Radiant are excellent candidates for Legendary Armor precursors.

[Voltekka.2375]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > Raids are PvE, Fractals are also niche' content.

> Indeed, which is why _the_ PvE legendary armor should not be locked behind any of those contents.

>

> > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > Game has 3 modes - PvP, PvE and WvW. Each has legendary armor currently.

> No. WvW has it, majority of SPvP has it, but only a small fraction of PvE has it.

>

>

 

The mistake was to tie leggy pve armor to raids. Now it cant be changed. Hopefully, a New leggy pve set will be made available

[STIHL.2489]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > > Raids are PvE, Fractals are also niche' content.

> > > Indeed, which is why _the_ PvE legendary armor should not be locked behind any of those contents.

> > >

> >

> > I could really get behind a Open World Style Legendary Armor. Maybe Similar to How Elite Spec Weapons/Class Items Work in the Expansions.

> >

> > Where it's tired to Map Completion/Event Collections, and the like., and linked to the Expansions like PoF (Since PoF is really lacking any kind of Legendary anything)

> >

> > Also, would rather if they did something like that, it was Cultural Style. IE: Charr Legendary Armor, Human Legendary Armor, Etc, Etc.

> >

> > That might make it easier to make the Armor to start with, or even start with needing to collect all tiers of the Specific Cultural Armor, and that would start the Legendary Collection (gotta love a gold sink)

>

> One of my ideas was to use hellfire/radiant skins as precursors. It would have been at once a core (and completely nonexclusive) legendary path, and yet still one that would heavily incentivize you to try many different things.

 

That would be a huge investment to get Chest, Legs, but, if that was part of .. say the Tier 3 Precursor Set, that might not be such a hard pill to swallow, as by the time someone got to that point, they would already be deeply invested into the game, and have the Helm. Gloves, Shoulders and Boots, so they would already be pretty far along.

 

I still think a Cultural Armor style direction for Open World Legendary Armor would be a better solution, not only would it make it easier on the Developers to make Armor for one race at a time, as opposed to trying to make one skin to fit all races, (Which by their own admission slows their progress greatly), so they could make it faster.

 

It would make it so that swapping the armor across characters would be limited, and thus, while still _Legendary_, it would not be **quite** as a one size fits all, that Raid/WvW/sPvP Legendary Armor currently provides.

 

Think of the Cultural Lock as the price paid for Open World Legendary Armor.

[yLoon.5289]

Fractal is just too easy and doesn't tally with the effort of "Legendary". But yeah, they can make Fractal Skin Type Armors instead.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

> @"yLoon.5289" said:

> Fractal is just too easy and doesn't tally with the effort of "Legendary". But yeah, they can make Fractal Skin Type Armors instead.

 

That's ridiculous argument considering how you acquire legendary weapons AND the fact that you can buy raids with full approval from Anet :)

[Raizel.8175]

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > > > Raids are PvE, Fractals are also niche' content.

> > > > Indeed, which is why _the_ PvE legendary armor should not be locked behind any of those contents.

> > > >

> > >

> > > I could really get behind a Open World Style Legendary Armor. Maybe Similar to How Elite Spec Weapons/Class Items Work in the Expansions.

> > >

> > > Where it's tired to Map Completion/Event Collections, and the like., and linked to the Expansions like PoF (Since PoF is really lacking any kind of Legendary anything)

> > >

> > > Also, would rather if they did something like that, it was Cultural Style. IE: Charr Legendary Armor, Human Legendary Armor, Etc, Etc.

> > >

> > > That might make it easier to make the Armor to start with, or even start with needing to collect all tiers of the Specific Cultural Armor, and that would start the Legendary Collection (gotta love a gold sink)

> >

> > One of my ideas was to use hellfire/radiant skins as precursors. It would have been at once a core (and completely nonexclusive) legendary path, and yet still one that would heavily incentivize you to try many different things.

>

> A Legendary version of Hellfire/Radiant that looks less fiery/shinny and then "explodes" when entering combat would be sick. Even without that, Hellfire and Radiant are excellent candidates for Legendary Armor precursors.

 

They're actually the worst candidates because using them as precursor would mean that you instantly lock out a ridiculously large number of players of ever getting them. I mean, ever thought that there actually are new and/or returning players that simply aren't able to reach the necessary AP. May it be that they lost their daily AP, missed LWS1, will have a hard time getting AP out of rather dead content, etc. It's simply stupid.

 

> @"yLoon.5289" said:

> Fractal is just too easy and doesn't tally with the effort of "Legendary". But yeah, they can make Fractal Skin Type Armors instead.

 

Is it? I think fractals in combination with some open-world-stuff would be perfectly fine. I mean, are raids that legendary? I'd even argue that some fractals are harder than raids since raids are almost exclusively about mechanics while you have some fractals that are simply about staying alive and killing stuff as fast as possible. You also don't even have to do raid-cms for legendary armor, so yeah...

 

 

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Raizel.8175" said:

> They're actually the worst candidates because using them as precursor would mean that you instantly lock out a ridiculously large number of players of ever getting them. I mean, ever thought that there actually are new and/or returning players that simply aren't able to reach the necessary AP. May it be that they lost their daily AP, missed LWS1, will have a hard time getting AP out of rather dead content, etc. It's simply stupid.

It's impossible to "miss" daily APs since those are capped. Everyone that does dailies will eventually cap on them. If you "miss" a day, all that means is that you'll have to do dailies for a day more. Yes, people starting now _will_ be 5 years behind, but it doesn't mean they're out of the race.

Historical rewards aren't obtainable now, so they can be considered to be truly "lost", but they aren't necessary for 30k AP. You'd simply need to do more of the other stuff, or wait for another expac. Noone is locked out from getting that stuff, because _everyone_ that keeps playing earns their APs. The only difference is the rate at which you earn them.

 

 

[Raizel.8175]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"Raizel.8175" said:

> > They're actually the worst candidates because using them as precursor would mean that you instantly lock out a ridiculously large number of players of ever getting them. I mean, ever thought that there actually are new and/or returning players that simply aren't able to reach the necessary AP. May it be that they lost their daily AP, missed LWS1, will have a hard time getting AP out of rather dead content, etc. It's simply stupid.

> It's impossible to "miss" daily APs since those are capped. Everyone that does dailies will eventually cap on them. If you "miss" a day, all that means is that you'll have to do dailies for a day more. Yes, people starting now _will_ be 5 years behind, but it doesn't mean they're out of the race.

 

It means that you've lost several years worth of daily AP and need to wait several more years to get the AP you need, simply because daily AP are a big chunk of your total AP-count. All it would lead to is catering to people who played the game from the start and who played without any bigger breaks. You already have achievement-chests and birthday-presents for that though. Adding legendary armor - one of the main-rewards the game has to offer - to that would be an insult to newer or returning players considering how very long you need to gather these AP. So rather than following this stupid idea, it would be far more reasonable to create a second legendary armor-set that requires fractals, open-world-content and maybe even dungeons.

 

[Despond.2174]

> @"yLoon.5289" said:

> Fractal is just too easy and doesn't tally with the effort of "Legendary". But yeah, they can make Fractal Skin Type Armors instead.

 

Not really, it's just a time gate in 2 pvp modes., granted the raiding verison is harder to get into but people now can just sit 3 seasons , repeat the last chest a bunch of times in any rank and get their armor - granted it takes like 10+ months. They can time gate it in fractals too so it's a minimum of 10-12 months, I'd love for fractal"ing" to be another method for legendary armor.

 

 

[Vinceman.4572]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> Historical rewards aren't obtainable now, so they can be considered to be truly "lost", but they aren't necessary for 30k AP. You'd simply need to do more of the other stuff

 

Well, it's utter mockery since you have to grind PvP and WvW in a massive way if you are aiming for 30k AP because "lost" APs are around 5.6k points which are a big deal considering 37558 APs is the actual number of the leader.

 

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"yLoon.5289" said:

> Fractal is just too easy and doesn't tally with the effort of "Legendary". But yeah, they can make Fractal Skin Type Armors instead.

 

It depends what would a possible Fractal Legendary Armor require. Shattered Observatory CM has a lower completion rate than Deimos, while Nightmare Fractal CM is very similar.

 

For reference (gw2eff data):

Mind over Time (Shattered Observatory CM): 7.109%

Free At Last (Deimos kill): 12.786%

Up to the Challenge (Nightmare Fractal CM): 13.701%

 

You don't need to finish any of the Raid CMs to get Envoy Armor, nor any Hall of Chains kills. As you can see Fractal CMs are similar to normal Raid completion.

If, that's a big if, they wanted to make a Fractal Legendary Armor and at the same time make it "really hard" to get, then that Fractal Armor would require Fractal CM completion to make it very similar to Envoy Armor "difficulty-wise".

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Raizel.8175" said:

> > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > @"Raizel.8175" said:

> > > They're actually the worst candidates because using them as precursor would mean that you instantly lock out a ridiculously large number of players of ever getting them. I mean, ever thought that there actually are new and/or returning players that simply aren't able to reach the necessary AP. May it be that they lost their daily AP, missed LWS1, will have a hard time getting AP out of rather dead content, etc. It's simply stupid.

> > It's impossible to "miss" daily APs since those are capped. Everyone that does dailies will eventually cap on them. If you "miss" a day, all that means is that you'll have to do dailies for a day more. Yes, people starting now _will_ be 5 years behind, but it doesn't mean they're out of the race.

>

> It means that you've lost several years worth of daily AP and need to wait several more years to get the AP you need, simply because daily AP are a big chunk of your total AP-count.

You didn't lose them. Yes, getting them would require several years - the same as it took for veteran players. If you start late, you will end late, but that doesn't mean you will do any more work than others.

 

> All it would lead to is catering to people who played the game from the start and who played without any bigger breaks.

Material costs do exactly the same, and yet noone is really complaining about those.

 

> You already have achievement-chests and birthday-presents for that though. Adding legendary armor - one of the main-rewards the game has to offer - to that would be an insult to newer or returning players considering how very long you need to gather these AP. So rather than following this stupid idea, it would be far more reasonable to create a second legendary armor-set that requires fractals, open-world-content and maybe even dungeons.

Trust me, veteran players would get those faster too.

 

Notice, btw, that when raid armor was finally implemented, top raiders already had enough LI for a set, while new players had to grind for it from the ground up. How is that different?

 

[Raizel.8175]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"Raizel.8175" said:

> > > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > > @"Raizel.8175" said:

> > > > They're actually the worst candidates because using them as precursor would mean that you instantly lock out a ridiculously large number of players of ever getting them. I mean, ever thought that there actually are new and/or returning players that simply aren't able to reach the necessary AP. May it be that they lost their daily AP, missed LWS1, will have a hard time getting AP out of rather dead content, etc. It's simply stupid.

> > > It's impossible to "miss" daily APs since those are capped. Everyone that does dailies will eventually cap on them. If you "miss" a day, all that means is that you'll have to do dailies for a day more. Yes, people starting now _will_ be 5 years behind, but it doesn't mean they're out of the race.

> >

> > It means that you've lost several years worth of daily AP and need to wait several more years to get the AP you need, simply because daily AP are a big chunk of your total AP-count.

> You didn't lose them. Yes, getting them would require several years - the same as it took for veteran players. If you start late, you will end late, but that doesn't mean you will do any more work than others.

>

> > All it would lead to is catering to people who played the game from the start and who played without any bigger breaks.

> Material costs do exactly the same, and yet noone is really complaining about those.

>

> > You already have achievement-chests and birthday-presents for that though. Adding legendary armor - one of the main-rewards the game has to offer - to that would be an insult to newer or returning players considering how very long you need to gather these AP. So rather than following this stupid idea, it would be far more reasonable to create a second legendary armor-set that requires fractals, open-world-content and maybe even dungeons.

> Trust me, veteran players would get those faster too.

>

> Notice, btw, that when raid armor was finally implemented, top raiders already had enough LI for a set, while new players had to grind for it from the ground up. How is that different?

>

 

If you're dedicated, you'll get your first set of legendary raid-armor - even as newbie - in approx. 3 months. 3 months is kinda very different from like 4 years for daily AP. Also, there are AP that are lost to me since I wasn't able to participate in LWS1. Compensating these AP will result in more work than people who were able to do that content had to do.

 

I don't really want to repeat myself. There's also a thread in the general discussions section with this suggestion of turning hellfire/radiant into legendaries. The idea is just stupid.

[CptAurellian.9537]

> @"Raizel.8175" said:

> I don't really want to repeat myself. There's also a thread in the general discussions section with this suggestion of turning hellfire/radiant into legendaries. The idea is just stupid.

I fully agree. I won't mind if they introduce another path towards a legendary (not envoy) armor set, be it via open world and/or fractals, but tying it to AP grind is just plain dumb.

 

[Ceit.7619]

> @"Raizel.8175" said:

>

> If you're dedicated, you'll get your first set of legendary raid-armor - even as newbie - in approx. 3 months. 3 months is kinda very different from like 4 years for daily AP. Also, there are AP that are lost to me since I wasn't able to participate in LWS1. Compensating these AP will result in more work than people who were able to do that content had to do.

>

> I don't really want to repeat myself. There's also a thread in the general discussions section with this suggestion of turning hellfire/radiant into legendaries. The idea is just stupid.

 

Only way a newbie is getting legendary armor in 3 months is with a lot of gold farming, and a lot of being carried through raids by experienced players. Not to mention, it's not like if they made AP legendaries that take a long time to get, that somehow raid legendaries lose their value or something. One takes multiple years to obtain, the other can be obtained in a much shorter time period. So it's basically just a method of acquiring legendary armor that is legendary in a different way. Your argument is that not everyone has the time put in to get the AP for all the hellfire skins, but not everyone has the time to put in for the raid collections either. It's a fine idea to give people OPTIONS.

[Raizel.8175]

> @"Ceit.7619" said:

> > @"Raizel.8175" said:

> >

> > If you're dedicated, you'll get your first set of legendary raid-armor - even as newbie - in approx. 3 months. 3 months is kinda very different from like 4 years for daily AP. Also, there are AP that are lost to me since I wasn't able to participate in LWS1. Compensating these AP will result in more work than people who were able to do that content had to do.

> >

> > I don't really want to repeat myself. There's also a thread in the general discussions section with this suggestion of turning hellfire/radiant into legendaries. The idea is just stupid.

>

> Only way a newbie is getting legendary armor in 3 months is with a lot of gold farming, and a lot of being carried through raids by experienced players. Not to mention, it's not like if they made AP legendaries that take a long time to get, that somehow raid legendaries lose their value or something. One takes multiple years to obtain, the other can be obtained in a much shorter time period. So it's basically just a method of acquiring legendary armor that is legendary in a different way. Your argument is that not everyone has the time put in to get the AP for all the hellfire skins, but not everyone has the time to put in for the raid collections either. It's a fine idea to give people OPTIONS.

 

I'm playing the game now for approx. 9 months and got into raiding 2 months ago starting with easier stuff like VG/Gorse or W4B123. I crafted my first legendary armor-piece this week and have enough LI to upgrade two more pieces. In two months, I will most likely have enough LI to craft my first full set. True, thats 4 instead of 3 months, but then, I also have a job, I study and sometimes I'm just lazy. If a newbie has the will and the want to raid, s/he will raid. It's that simple. Yes, it's annoying to use the LFG to find training-groups, and the publicity of guilds who would accept newbies isn't great either (wtb guild-browser pretty pl0x), but you get shit done if you want to. It's not that hard to get started by playing an easy-to-play dps-class. Another good start is having the ability to tag up. It's probably morally ambiguous, but if you know your shit at a boss, you can create your own squads with requirements like "150+ LI, bla bla bla" without anyone noticing that you don't fit that criteria.

 

Options are fine, but the idea with hellfire/radiant as legendary armor remains ludicrous. Legendary equipment-pieces are the main-reward of the game due to the reason that the games end-game-content consists of "fashion wars" and because they are a huge time- and material-sink. Main-rewards should be reasonable achievable by everyone. The suggested hellfire/radiant pieces aren't. You will need years of daily AP to get every piece. That's simply not reasonable. It's also not reasonable that people who weren't able to play LWS1 are strongly discriminated. It would be reasonable to implement another PvE-Set consisting of fractals, open-world-content (mostly PoF to revive PoF-meta-events) and maybe dungeons.

[Ceit.7619]

> @"Raizel.8175" said:

>

> I'm playing the game now for approx. 9 months and got into raiding 2 months ago starting with easier stuff like VG/Gorse or W4B123. I crafted my first legendary armor-piece this week and have enough LI to upgrade two more pieces. In two months, I will most likely have enough LI to craft my first full set. True, thats 4 instead of 3 months, but then, I also have a job, I study and sometimes I'm just lazy. If a newbie has the will and the want to raid, s/he will raid. It's that simple. Yes, it's annoying to use the LFG to find training-groups, and the publicity of guilds who would accept newbies isn't great either (wtb guild-browser pretty pl0x), but you get kitten done if you want to. It's not that hard to get started by playing an easy-to-play dps-class. Another good start is having the ability to tag up. It's probably morally ambiguous, but if you know your kitten at a boss, you can create your own squads with requirements like "150+ LI, bla bla bla" without anyone noticing that you don't fit that criteria.

>

> Options are fine, but the idea with hellfire/radiant as legendary armor remains ludicrous. Legendary equipment-pieces are the main-reward of the game due to the reason that the games end-game-content consists of "fashion wars" and because they are a huge time- and material-sink. Main-rewards should be reasonable achievable by everyone. The suggested hellfire/radiant pieces aren't. You will need years of daily AP to get every piece. That's simply not reasonable. It's also not reasonable that people who weren't able to play LWS1 are strongly discriminated. It would be reasonable to implement another PvE-Set consisting of fractals, open-world-content (mostly PoF to revive PoF-meta-events) and maybe dungeons.

 

On the one hand, I agree with most of the things you said, we just disagree on one point. That point being that raids are apparently reasonably achievable by everyone. They aren't. A lot of people don't have the skill or teammates to get this content done, and that is born out by the completion rates on some bosses. I still see people struggle with VG, and I have to realize how jaded my own perspective is on account of knowing that fight so well that other people just don't get there. I'm glad that you are on track to obtain your legendary armor goals in a relatively short time period, but basing game-status off of a few individuals is cherry-picking things. The fashion wars argument is kind of nonsensical in terms of legendary gear, on account that a lot of people reskin legendaries to things they find more appealing anyways.

 

Sure, a lot of people are behind the curve when it comes to AP, and I'm even one of them due to numerous long breaks I have taken from the game, and that AP has never been a huge priority to me. But putting legendaries in the AP rewards, or at least as precursors, would not hurt the current methods of acquiring legendary gear. The question on the other side of that then, is if it's not hurting anything, would it help anything? It's a super-long term goal, which gives an incentive to log in daily and play the game. No hurting what exists, but an incentive to play for people who prefer to avoid the toxic scenes of raid, I don't see the issue?

 

All that said, I think fractal options are a great idea too.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Raizel.8175" said:

> Options are fine, but the idea with hellfire/radiant as legendary armor remains ludicrous. Legendary equipment-pieces are the main-reward of the game due to the reason that the games end-game-content consists of "fashion wars" and because they are a huge time- and material-sink. Main-rewards should be reasonable achievable by everyone. The suggested hellfire/radiant pieces aren't.

They aren't any less reasonably achievable than Envoy set.

 

> You will need years of daily AP to get every piece. That's simply not reasonable.

Why? Because it _really_ is a long-term reward?

 

(i won't bring up here the oft-used arguments about "feeling entitled" and "instant gratification", but i must say that it is very tempting)

 

> It's also not reasonable that people who weren't able to play LWS1 are strongly discriminated.

Yes, the fact that LS1 is not available anymore is bad. On the other hand, new content does introduce new APs with it, so the path is only going to become easier and easier with time. The people starting now will likely get at least one more expac and LS worth of achievement points before they'll cap their dailies anyway, with even more APs coming from new raids, fractals and current events. And while people starting now are at a disadvantage, they will still eventually get there. On the other hand, a majority of PvE players (that happen to not be raiding) will _never_ have a chance of obtaining the Envoy set, unless Anet changes its method of acquisition. I'd consider the AP way to be actually _more_ fair to all players than the raid one.

 

[Voltekka.2375]

Can all you advocates of hellfire/radiant imagine what would happen if wvw had a rank prerequisite for wvw legendary armor? (it does not, btw) Or pvp? Imagine how new players would feel. Thats right, they would feel it is not fair. Sure, you would tell them "its ok, buddy, you just gotta get to that *insert random thousand k rank*, no issue, it may take you 5 years but hey! You can at least get there, even if it takes you that kitten longl"

Kitten logic.

Before you start the bashing, I am neither new nor have few AP. Open world legendary, thats what should happen. It should require dungeon gifts, fractal components (yes, cm too), crafting, only to name a few things. Make it an upgraded reskin of illustrious if Anet cant make another new set. But AP as prerequisite is just illogical.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Voltekka.2375" said:

> Can all you advocates of hellfire/radiant imagine what would happen if wvw had a rank prerequisite for wvw legendary armor? (it does not, btw) Or pvp? Imagine how new players would feel. Thats right, they would feel it is not fair. Sure, you would tell them "its ok, buddy, you just gotta get to that *insert random thousand k rank*, no issue, it may take you 5 years but hey! You can at least get there, even if it takes you that kitten longl"

> Kitten logic.

The difference here is that said WvW/PvP rank requirements would be content-specific. Noone actually planning to play said modes would have any problem with them. They'd be only problems to people casually dipping in and out of said content (and for the most of tehir time doing PvE). APs on the other hand are far more generic.

 

> Before you start the bashing, I am neither new nor have few AP. Open world legendary, thats what should happen. It should require dungeon gifts, fractal components (yes, cm too), crafting, only to name a few things. Make it an upgraded reskin of illustrious if Anet cant make another new set. But AP as prerequisite is just illogical.

No more illogical than requiring abovementioned fractal CMs (which would be a far more restrictive requirement).

 

 

[Voltekka.2375]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"Voltekka.2375" said:

> > Can all you advocates of hellfire/radiant imagine what would happen if wvw had a rank prerequisite for wvw legendary armor? (it does not, btw) Or pvp? Imagine how new players would feel. Thats right, they would feel it is not fair. Sure, you would tell them "its ok, buddy, you just gotta get to that *insert random thousand k rank*, no issue, it may take you 5 years but hey! You can at least get there, even if it takes you that kitten longl"

> > Kitten logic.

> The difference here is that said WvW/PvP rank requirements would be content-specific. Noone actually planning to play said modes would have any problem with them. They'd be only problems to people casually dipping in and out of said content (and for the most of tehir time doing PvE). APs on the other hand are far more generic.

>

> > Before you start the bashing, I am neither new nor have few AP. Open world legendary, thats what should happen. It should require dungeon gifts, fractal components (yes, cm too), crafting, only to name a few things. Make it an upgraded reskin of illustrious if Anet cant make another new set. But AP as prerequisite is just illogical.

> No more illogical than requiring abovementioned fractal CMs (which would be a far more restrictive requirement).

>

>

Fractal cm, as in Ad Infinitum cm. Not 99cm or 100cm

 

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"Voltekka.2375" said:

> Can all you advocates of hellfire/radiant imagine what would happen if wvw had a rank prerequisite for wvw legendary armor? (it does not, btw) Or pvp? Imagine how new players would feel. Thats right, they would feel it is not fair. Sure, you would tell them "its ok, buddy, you just gotta get to that *insert random thousand k rank*, no issue, it may take you 5 years but hey! You can at least get there, even if it takes you that kitten longl"

 

How long would it take for someone to get to 2k WvW rank? https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mistforged_Triumphant_Hero%27s_armor

Or let's say win a monthly tournament: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Glorious_Victor%27s_Armor_Box

Those are both Armor sets with ridiculous requirements and can be upgraded to Legendary.

 

 

[Voltekka.2375]

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > @"Voltekka.2375" said:

> > Can all you advocates of hellfire/radiant imagine what would happen if wvw had a rank prerequisite for wvw legendary armor? (it does not, btw) Or pvp? Imagine how new players would feel. Thats right, they would feel it is not fair. Sure, you would tell them "its ok, buddy, you just gotta get to that *insert random thousand k rank*, no issue, it may take you 5 years but hey! You can at least get there, even if it takes you that kitten longl"

>

> How long would it take for someone to get to 2k WvW rank? https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mistforged_Triumphant_Hero%27s_armor

> Or let's say win a monthly tournament: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Glorious_Victor%27s_Armor_Box

> Those are both Armor sets with ridiculous requirements and can be upgraded to Legendary.

>

>

 

This is not the only way to get legendary wvw armor. I supoose you know that. But since we use the wiki, here goes! https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Triumphant_Hero%27s_armor

No rank requirement.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"Voltekka.2375" said:

> > @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > > @"Voltekka.2375" said:

> > > Can all you advocates of hellfire/radiant imagine what would happen if wvw had a rank prerequisite for wvw legendary armor? (it does not, btw) Or pvp? Imagine how new players would feel. Thats right, they would feel it is not fair. Sure, you would tell them "its ok, buddy, you just gotta get to that *insert random thousand k rank*, no issue, it may take you 5 years but hey! You can at least get there, even if it takes you that kitten longl"

> >

> > How long would it take for someone to get to 2k WvW rank? https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mistforged_Triumphant_Hero%27s_armor

> > Or let's say win a monthly tournament: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Glorious_Victor%27s_Armor_Box

> > Those are both Armor sets with ridiculous requirements and can be upgraded to Legendary.

> >

> >

>

> This is not the only way to get legendary wvw armor. I supoose you know that. But since we use the wiki, here goes! https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Triumphant_Hero%27s_armor

> No rank requirement.

 

Of course there is another version that doesn't require a rank. But THERE IS a version that requires a rank -> similar to Hellfire/Radiant requiring AP.

[Voltekka.2375]

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > @"Voltekka.2375" said:

> > > @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said:

> > > > Can all you advocates of hellfire/radiant imagine what would happen if wvw had a rank prerequisite for wvw legendary armor? (it does not, btw) Or pvp? Imagine how new players would feel. Thats right, they would feel it is not fair. Sure, you would tell them "its ok, buddy, you just gotta get to that *insert random thousand k rank*, no issue, it may take you 5 years but hey! You can at least get there, even if it takes you that kitten longl"

> > >

> > > How long would it take for someone to get to 2k WvW rank? https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mistforged_Triumphant_Hero%27s_armor

> > > Or let's say win a monthly tournament: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Glorious_Victor%27s_Armor_Box

> > > Those are both Armor sets with ridiculous requirements and can be upgraded to Legendary.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > This is not the only way to get legendary wvw armor. I supoose you know that. But since we use the wiki, here goes! https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Triumphant_Hero%27s_armor

> > No rank requirement.

>

> Of course there is another version that doesn't require a rank. But THERE IS a version that requires a rank -> similar to Hellfire/Radiant requiring AP.

 

Is there a hellfire/radiant version that doesnt require AP? I will wait