Odmjun.4195 Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 I think this game is pretty awesome but mesmers are totally ruining the whole thing. Too high dmg too many evades Cant even fight back or cleanse because of 20 condi stacks Pretty fed up, devs obviously dont know shit about balance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigpapasmurf.5623 Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 > @"Kraitan.8476" said: > pvp would be so much more enjoyable if we didnt have to fight 1-3 mesmers each game. It’s the least fun class to fight with the least amount of counterplay to it due to the kitten amount of evades/blocks/invuln/distort/blinds/stealth while easily capable of applying 20+ confusion stacks + a ton of other conditions within a single second. Anyone defending this statement plays mesmer. Dear Anet, please don’t let a bunch of 14 year olds who only care about winning ruin the fun for the non mesmer players who actually are trying to enjoy the combat. I play DPS mirage (non meta and not quite a one shot build either) and while I agree condi mesmer is in a slightly unbalanced place right now, they are not without their weaknesses (like any other build/class). Most condi application (and DPS in reference to DPS mesmers) come from the clones. AoE is an easily accessible weakness as they kill clones fast. No Clones = less damage. They also have little condi cleanse as well. Torch removes 1 and Jaunt removes 1 each (although Jaunt is valuable for other aspects as well). I know when fighting them myself, if I get loaded up with confusion/torment I gotta shake it off fast, however GS ambush attack is a multi target attack and greatly helps nail the clones so I need to use it sparingly and use my way of removing condis strategically, else im dead. While I am in little position to say anything where I play DPS mirage, I dont run meta nor play a one shot build (im more spread out bursts. I like to fight and its boring if its over before it even begins, plus I dont use sword so less evades and less mobility). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuka Cola.8520 Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 Mirage will be fine when it becomes Thieves food. until then, everyone will cry about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigpapasmurf.5623 Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 > @"Nuka Cola.8520" said: > Mirage will be fine when it becomes Thieves food. until then, everyone will cry about it. Well...halfway there. Thieves counter DPS Mirages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solori.6025 Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 > @"Menyus.4610" said: > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said: > > > @"Menyus.4610" said: > > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said: > > > > > @"Menyus.4610" said: > > > > > I have nothing to add to this conversation, im also waiting for a serious mirage nerf oh and they also dominate wvw roaming too. > > > > > > > > Good. They're pretty terrible in a zerg. They should at least be good at roaming! You see the same issue in PvP. Mirage is among the strongest builds in 1v1, but then you have to consider that their damage gets diluted quickly with multiple targets present and any sort of decent support cleansing will nullify them. A knee-jerk nerf based on 1v1 performance could take this class from OP to irrelevant. > > > > > > > > I agree with the others. Kill EM already. Mirage doesn't need it. Then let's see where Mirage stands and if further nerfs are needed. > > > > > > Erm i said they dominate it, there is a difference between dominating and being good at something, the amount of escape, invuln and burst they can produce is stupid, you can only kill them if they get greedy for a kill > > > > Thieves have always had builds like this that destroy in 1v1 and can walk away from any fight at any time. And like Mirage, they've always walked the line between OP and irrelevant. Like I said, no need to nerf everything. If you can't lock them down or prevent them escaping, it might help to target the things mirage players are identifying as a problem there. Specifically, EM and Mirage Thrust. Fixing these two things would directly address the biggest issues without really impacting much else. It's a good place to start. > > Thieves sacrafice many things for god 1v1 build, while mirage aint, learn the difference between a burst build and a burst build while evading being invunerable or stealthed, also if a thief escape he cant attack again, mirage will, if a thief escapes a hard situation he wont for another 40 seconds, dont bring thieves here.... ....what do thieves sacrifice.. I'm honestly curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menyus.4610 Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 1. Power thieves must take trickery for increased ini pool thats -1 build diversity 2. They need atleast 70% critical chance all the time because they skills without critical deals little damage, cant pick from much amulets 3. They cant really condi cleanse, only reliable cleanse is on 40 sec cd and also thats their stunbreaking, before it cleanses also triggers confusion damage twice 4. And for my original statement if you are going for god like 1v1 build you basically become useless for your team, because either you will need minutes to win a fight, while enemy can decap and hold the point, you also loose you mobility too which is kinda become a joke over they years, most mobile class my A**, its more like the most mobile class that cant do sh*t after it was "mobile" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuka Cola.8520 Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 > @"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said: > > @"Nuka Cola.8520" said: > > Mirage will be fine when it becomes Thieves food. until then, everyone will cry about it. > > Well...halfway there. Thieves counter DPS Mirages. A well played D/P that kites, counters condi mirage as well. S/D too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigpapasmurf.5623 Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 > @"Nuka Cola.8520" said: > > @"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said: > > > @"Nuka Cola.8520" said: > > > Mirage will be fine when it becomes Thieves food. until then, everyone will cry about it. > > > > Well...halfway there. Thieves counter DPS Mirages. > > A well played D/P that kites, counters condi mirage as well. S/D too. S/D are sooooooooooooooooooooooooo annoying to fight. That teleport spam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Disgrace.4275 Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 > @"Nuka Cola.8520" said: > > @"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said: > > > @"Nuka Cola.8520" said: > > > Mirage will be fine when it becomes Thieves food. until then, everyone will cry about it. > > > > Well...halfway there. Thieves counter DPS Mirages. > > A well played D/P that kites, counters condi mirage as well. S/D too. true that, but then they lose the node - unless you just meant a 1v1 punch up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solori.6025 Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 > @"Menyus.4610" said: > 1. Power thieves must take trickery for increased ini pool thats -1 build diversity I wouldn't call build diversity a sacrifice because you honestly have nothing else that I would find comparable to trickery. Increased initiative, Boons on steal or quickness when you strike a target from behind, a boon rip or condi cleanse on trickery use, and a condi trait or CC. That line has more bread and butter for most builds than any other line.\ > 2. They need atleast 70% critical chance all the time because they skills without critical deals little damage, cant pick from much amulets This is purely subjective, as being over 45% leads to a decent crit chance already and depending on the build though you will be sitting at 100% when you open from stealth. > 3. They cant really condi cleanse, only reliable cleanse is on 40 sec cd and also thats their stunbreaking, before it cleanses also triggers confusion damage twice This is 100% false. > 4. And for my original statement if you are going for god like 1v1 build you basically become useless for your team, because either you will need minutes to win a fight, while enemy can decap and hold the point, you also loose you mobility too which is kinda become a joke over they years, most mobile class my A**, its more like the most mobile class that cant do kitten after it was "mobile" Also subjective, but that isn't what I asked you. I asked what do you sacrifice. A thief's kit is unique in it's own because you fill the roaming role very well. But you can also do things that render you pretty much uncatchable, or removes condi's at a pretty reliable rate. You have the unique position where you can also bait and wait out cooldowns, this is because of the classes abhorrent amounts of access to stealth. Their is a reason why for the majority of this games life time thieves were the roaming class and the +1 class. No other class could fill that role like thieves could, and when they did ( revenant) they were almost immediately taken out of the equation from a constant barrage of nerfs. But i digress, because that isn't what were were talking about or relevant to the question. A Thief sacrifices very little but they do sacrifice some things like other classes do ( not so little as mesmer with Elusive Mind, which as has been pointed out needs to be changed completely) If you want condi cleanse, you can trait for it and/or grab utilities for it. If you want more damage you can trait for it, and/or grab utilities for it. If you want more stealth, you can trait for it and/or grab utilities for it Pick two essentially. ( I would hope I don't need to breakdown why or how this is logical) If you are having issues with mobility....I honestly don't know who you could ask, because I don't know how you are exclusively having this problem Edit: If you want to know what sacrifice is, play Rev. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Despond.2174 Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 Hop out of the chrono fire and into the mirage oven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnderzShadow.2506 Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 > @"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said: > > @"Nuka Cola.8520" said: > > > @"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said: > > > > @"Nuka Cola.8520" said: > > > > Mirage will be fine when it becomes Thieves food. until then, everyone will cry about it. > > > > > > Well...halfway there. Thieves counter DPS Mirages. > > > > A well played D/P that kites, counters condi mirage as well. S/D too. > > S/D are sooooooooooooooooooooooooo annoying to fight. That teleport spam. cmon papa smurf...calling the kettle black aint ya? mesmers are a clone, teleport, stealth spam sandwich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigpapasmurf.5623 Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 > @"EnderzShadow.2506" said: > > @"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said: > > > @"Nuka Cola.8520" said: > > > > @"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said: > > > > > @"Nuka Cola.8520" said: > > > > > Mirage will be fine when it becomes Thieves food. until then, everyone will cry about it. > > > > > > > > Well...halfway there. Thieves counter DPS Mirages. > > > > > > A well played D/P that kites, counters condi mirage as well. S/D too. > > > > S/D are sooooooooooooooooooooooooo annoying to fight. That teleport spam. > > cmon papa smurf...calling the kettle black aint ya? > > mesmers are a clone, teleport, stealth spam sandwich Wish I could stealth spam like a thief. Id be un-friggin-stoppable BWAHAHAHAHA. My teleports (which compensates for my lack of stealth spam) is what keeps me alive vs thieves. On equal skill, a S/D thief should beat a DPS mirage (as should a d/p thief). As far as messing with the mind during a fight, you wouldn't be wrong (minus stealth spamming...if only i could...BWAHAHAHAHAHA) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menyus.4610 Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 > @"Solori.6025" said: > > @"Menyus.4610" said: > > 1. Power thieves must take trickery for increased ini pool thats -1 build diversity > I wouldn't call build diversity a sacrifice because you honestly have nothing else that I would find comparable to trickery. Increased initiative, Boons on steal or quickness when you strike a target from behind, a boon rip or condi cleanse on trickery use, and a condi trait or CC. That line has more bread and butter for most builds than any other line.\ > > 2. They need atleast 70% critical chance all the time because they skills without critical deals little damage, cant pick from much amulets > This is purely subjective, as being over 45% leads to a decent crit chance already and depending on the build though you will be sitting at 100% when you open from stealth. > > 3. They cant really condi cleanse, only reliable cleanse is on 40 sec cd and also thats their stunbreaking, before it cleanses also triggers confusion damage twice > This is 100% false. > > 4. And for my original statement if you are going for god like 1v1 build you basically become useless for your team, because either you will need minutes to win a fight, while enemy can decap and hold the point, you also loose you mobility too which is kinda become a joke over they years, most mobile class my A**, its more like the most mobile class that cant do kitten after it was "mobile" > > Also subjective, but that isn't what I asked you. I asked what do you sacrifice. > A thief's kit is unique in it's own because you fill the roaming role very well. But you can also do things that render you pretty much uncatchable, or removes condi's at a pretty reliable rate. > You have the unique position where you can also bait and wait out cooldowns, this is because of the classes abhorrent amounts of access to stealth. > Their is a reason why for the majority of this games life time thieves were the roaming class and the +1 class. No other class could fill that role like thieves could, and when they did ( revenant) they were almost immediately taken out of the equation from a constant barrage of nerfs. But i digress, because that isn't what were were talking about or relevant to the question. > A Thief sacrifices very little but they do sacrifice some things like other classes do ( not so little as mesmer with Elusive Mind, which as has been pointed out needs to be changed completely) > > If you want condi cleanse, you can trait for it and/or grab utilities for it. > If you want more damage you can trait for it, and/or grab utilities for it. > If you want more stealth, you can trait for it and/or grab utilities for it > > Pick two essentially. ( I would hope I don't need to breakdown why or how this is logical) > > If you are having issues with mobility....I honestly don't know who you could ask, because I don't know how you are exclusively having this problem > > Edit: If you want to know what sacrifice is, play Rev. 1. I wouldn't even comment it feel like you just typed thief wiki traits into google and tried to say something smart, while metioning traits that maybe silver t2 thieves use 2. "45% is a decent crit chance for thief?" , dude why are you commeting if you are obviously have no idea about how thief works, "depending on the build though you will be sitting at 100% when you open from stealth" do you see thieves using cs? no becauase of trickery ini pool, without increased ini you cant use this advantage because of the lack of stealth you can produce 3. Please teach us master, how to condi cleanse on thief reliably apart from movement impairing ones, using 5 initiative to cleanse one random condi with sword?, traiting into DrD to cleanse condi on dodge with icd and with the new nerf to dash?, or picking up sigil of agility for condi cleanse a skill which ofc also got nerfed, saying false is not really an argument, or just use some passive trait that you have no idea when it will triger, oh wait i totally forgot if you choose this trait you use one of the most important trait for acro thieves, thieves condi cleanse is evasion you not get hit by the condi you ok, one mistake and you are ***** 4. Here again i tell you what thieves sacrafice: - for fast spike damage they sacrafice survivability - for mobility they sacrafice a weaponslot, SH on thief is purely an Utility weapon, its projectiles are slow and even have casttimes even Infiltrator's Arrow have a delay, how many times you see a thief without a bow? - Thief god 1v1 build is s/d and d/p, with this setup it can get the upperhand in every fight, can eat thorugh blocks, can evade can stealth and so on, but with this setup in pvp enviroment thief needs time, which is not good in a fast paced action and on such small maps(so in PvP), thieves cant hold point or actually it can but will die in 15-20 seconds because it will loose all ini and evasion, without ini you cant escape, without ini you cant fight back Thief is now a fine class it can do many things, but while doing 1-2 things it cant do 2-4 other things all the classes should be tone down to its level Please note when i wrote this i was angry for my family, for my gf, and even failed an important exam, so sorry if its tone is a bit rough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigpapasmurf.5623 Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 Makes me wonder...if (hypothetically) Elusive mind were removed, and sword for mesmer was removed...how many people would look for something else to complain about? :unamused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phokus.8934 Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 > @"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said: > Makes me wonder...if (hypothetically) Elusive mind were removed, and sword for mesmer was removed...how many people would look for something else to complain about? :unamused: Go back to the GW2 forum archives about Mesmers and it'll just repeat itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solori.6025 Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 > @"Menyus.4610" said: > > @"Solori.6025" said: > > > @"Menyus.4610" said: > > > 1. Power thieves must take trickery for increased ini pool thats -1 build diversity > > I wouldn't call build diversity a sacrifice because you honestly have nothing else that I would find comparable to trickery. Increased initiative, Boons on steal or quickness when you strike a target from behind, a boon rip or condi cleanse on trickery use, and a condi trait or CC. That line has more bread and butter for most builds than any other line.\ > > > 2. They need atleast 70% critical chance all the time because they skills without critical deals little damage, cant pick from much amulets > > This is purely subjective, as being over 45% leads to a decent crit chance already and depending on the build though you will be sitting at 100% when you open from stealth. > > > 3. They cant really condi cleanse, only reliable cleanse is on 40 sec cd and also thats their stunbreaking, before it cleanses also triggers confusion damage twice > > This is 100% false. > > > 4. And for my original statement if you are going for god like 1v1 build you basically become useless for your team, because either you will need minutes to win a fight, while enemy can decap and hold the point, you also loose you mobility too which is kinda become a joke over they years, most mobile class my A**, its more like the most mobile class that cant do kitten after it was "mobile" > > > > Also subjective, but that isn't what I asked you. I asked what do you sacrifice. > > A thief's kit is unique in it's own because you fill the roaming role very well. But you can also do things that render you pretty much uncatchable, or removes condi's at a pretty reliable rate. > > You have the unique position where you can also bait and wait out cooldowns, this is because of the classes abhorrent amounts of access to stealth. > > Their is a reason why for the majority of this games life time thieves were the roaming class and the +1 class. No other class could fill that role like thieves could, and when they did ( revenant) they were almost immediately taken out of the equation from a constant barrage of nerfs. But i digress, because that isn't what were were talking about or relevant to the question. > > A Thief sacrifices very little but they do sacrifice some things like other classes do ( not so little as mesmer with Elusive Mind, which as has been pointed out needs to be changed completely) > > > > If you want condi cleanse, you can trait for it and/or grab utilities for it. > > If you want more damage you can trait for it, and/or grab utilities for it. > > If you want more stealth, you can trait for it and/or grab utilities for it > > > > Pick two essentially. ( I would hope I don't need to breakdown why or how this is logical) > > > > If you are having issues with mobility....I honestly don't know who you could ask, because I don't know how you are exclusively having this problem > > > > Edit: If you want to know what sacrifice is, play Rev. > > 1. I wouldn't even comment it feel like you just typed thief wiki traits into google and tried to say something smart, while metioning traits that maybe silver t2 thieves use > 2. "45% is a decent crit chance for thief?" , dude why are you commeting if you are obviously have no idea about how thief works, "depending on the build though you will be sitting at 100% when you open from stealth" do you see thieves using cs? no becauase of trickery ini pool, without increased ini you cant use this advantage because of the lack of stealth you can produce > 3. Please teach us master, how to condi cleanse on thief reliably apart from movement impairing ones, using 5 initiative to cleanse one random condi with sword?, traiting into DrD to cleanse condi on dodge with icd and with the new nerf to dash?, or picking up sigil of agility for condi cleanse a skill which ofc also got nerfed, saying false is not really an argument, or just use some passive trait that you have no idea when it will triger, oh wait i totally forgot if you choose this trait you use one of the most important trait for acro thieves, thieves condi cleanse is evasion you not get hit by the condi you ok, one mistake and you are ***** > 4. Here again i tell you what thieves sacrafice: > - for fast spike damage they sacrafice survivability > - for mobility they sacrafice a weaponslot, SH on thief is purely an Utility weapon, its projectiles are slow and even have casttimes even Infiltrator's Arrow have a delay, how many times you see a thief without a bow? > - Thief god 1v1 build is s/d and d/p, with this setup it can get the upperhand in every fight, can eat thorugh blocks, can evade can stealth and so on, but with this setup in pvp enviroment thief needs time, which is not good in a fast paced action and on such small maps(so in PvP), thieves cant hold point or actually it can but will die in 15-20 seconds because it will loose all ini and evasion, without ini you cant escape, without ini you cant fight back > > Thief is now a fine class it can do many things, but while doing 1-2 things it cant do 2-4 other things all the classes should be tone down to its level > > Please note when i wrote this i was angry for my family, for my gf, and even failed an important exam, so sorry if its tone is a bit rough > 1. Most of my experience comes from playing the class and testing. Please don't insult your intelligence by not knowing your class. 2. From this I can already tell either you don't know how to play thief, or you don't know what your traits do, or maybe you don't know what your utilities do. It would do you some good to maybe wiki your utilities, test builds, and then come back to this discussion when you are informed and not relying on meta battle. 3. If you don't know how to properly manage and play your class. Again. It's a you problem, and you need to actually learn and read. 15-20 seconds? If you haven't managed to make your opponent waste the majority of their CD's then again this is a you problem. Please don't spam your abilities? This shouldn't have to be said it's 2018 unless you are completely new. And shortbow.. I remember back in 2013 or 2014 I think it was sind or someone on stream talking about how new thieves don't know how to properly use shortbow. It's a pretty versatile weapon in the hands of pro players and was used both offensively and defensively in many esl tournaments ( like the poison field that would negate banner plays from warriors was A plus comedy). I would suggest playing with SB more and learning when to use it. And I'm surprised you don't know how good that weapon is, then again you seem to not know a lot about your strengths. Oh and initiative is not a cooldown, it's a resource, stop spamming things and manage it properly. 4. Condi cleanse on an icd. A one second icd, using a utility slot or two and dodging or blinding burst. Speaking from a d/p stand point you are never completely overwhelmed when fighting Condi, while I do agree , Condi application in this game is broken beyond belief, you also have utilities, and traits to help you deal with them. But you should never be in a position where you have one Condi cleanse in this game mode. That is something a bronze player does. Especially given the frequency of double scourge and Condi mirage in this meta right now. I would suggest you try planning for things and testing instead of following someone else's build, then practicing those variations. If you want some practice, I can grab some of the people and myself who do duels and schedule a time on the weekend we can duel and go over things if you need help learning your new class. I personally am still learning new things and tactics every day, no shame in admitting you need help. And concentrate on real life stuff first. You can come back to the game at any time. You can't redo life. Take a break and come back when life is settled. PS What build are you running? Just curious what you are playing with utilities and traits. Edit: If anyone has some good rev tricks you'd like to share always looking. I'm currently relearning Herald cause it's fun af Edit2: I told you, thief has more Condi cleanses. You need to look more into your class. "Vallun.2071" said: > Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menyus.4610 Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 Just so you can see clear , i have around 3k hours on thief like 2k pvp matches on it, made builds for former big Deso wvw guilds, im quite a well know roamer on Deso, never used metabattle and i never encourage it, > @"Solori.6025" said: > > @"Menyus.4610" said: > > > @"Solori.6025" said: > > > > @"Menyus.4610" said: > > > > 1. Power thieves must take trickery for increased ini pool thats -1 build diversity > > > I wouldn't call build diversity a sacrifice because you honestly have nothing else that I would find comparable to trickery. Increased initiative, Boons on steal or quickness when you strike a target from behind, a boon rip or condi cleanse on trickery use, and a condi trait or CC. That line has more bread and butter for most builds than any other line.\ > > > > 2. They need atleast 70% critical chance all the time because they skills without critical deals little damage, cant pick from much amulets > > > This is purely subjective, as being over 45% leads to a decent crit chance already and depending on the build though you will be sitting at 100% when you open from stealth. > > > > 3. They cant really condi cleanse, only reliable cleanse is on 40 sec cd and also thats their stunbreaking, before it cleanses also triggers confusion damage twice > > > This is 100% false. > > > > 4. And for my original statement if you are going for god like 1v1 build you basically become useless for your team, because either you will need minutes to win a fight, while enemy can decap and hold the point, you also loose you mobility too which is kinda become a joke over they years, most mobile class my A**, its more like the most mobile class that cant do kitten after it was "mobile" > > > > > > Also subjective, but that isn't what I asked you. I asked what do you sacrifice. > > > A thief's kit is unique in it's own because you fill the roaming role very well. But you can also do things that render you pretty much uncatchable, or removes condi's at a pretty reliable rate. > > > You have the unique position where you can also bait and wait out cooldowns, this is because of the classes abhorrent amounts of access to stealth. > > > Their is a reason why for the majority of this games life time thieves were the roaming class and the +1 class. No other class could fill that role like thieves could, and when they did ( revenant) they were almost immediately taken out of the equation from a constant barrage of nerfs. But i digress, because that isn't what were were talking about or relevant to the question. > > > A Thief sacrifices very little but they do sacrifice some things like other classes do ( not so little as mesmer with Elusive Mind, which as has been pointed out needs to be changed completely) > > > > > > If you want condi cleanse, you can trait for it and/or grab utilities for it. > > > If you want more damage you can trait for it, and/or grab utilities for it. > > > If you want more stealth, you can trait for it and/or grab utilities for it > > > > > > Pick two essentially. ( I would hope I don't need to breakdown why or how this is logical) > > > > > > If you are having issues with mobility....I honestly don't know who you could ask, because I don't know how you are exclusively having this problem > > > > > > Edit: If you want to know what sacrifice is, play Rev. > > > > 1. I wouldn't even comment it feel like you just typed thief wiki traits into google and tried to say something smart, while metioning traits that maybe silver t2 thieves use > > 2. "45% is a decent crit chance for thief?" , dude why are you commeting if you are obviously have no idea about how thief works, "depending on the build though you will be sitting at 100% when you open from stealth" do you see thieves using cs? no becauase of trickery ini pool, without increased ini you cant use this advantage because of the lack of stealth you can produce > > 3. Please teach us master, how to condi cleanse on thief reliably apart from movement impairing ones, using 5 initiative to cleanse one random condi with sword?, traiting into DrD to cleanse condi on dodge with icd and with the new nerf to dash?, or picking up sigil of agility for condi cleanse a skill which ofc also got nerfed, saying false is not really an argument, or just use some passive trait that you have no idea when it will triger, oh wait i totally forgot if you choose this trait you use one of the most important trait for acro thieves, thieves condi cleanse is evasion you not get hit by the condi you ok, one mistake and you are ***** > > 4. Here again i tell you what thieves sacrafice: > > - for fast spike damage they sacrafice survivability > > - for mobility they sacrafice a weaponslot, SH on thief is purely an Utility weapon, its projectiles are slow and even have casttimes even Infiltrator's Arrow have a delay, how many times you see a thief without a bow? > > - Thief god 1v1 build is s/d and d/p, with this setup it can get the upperhand in every fight, can eat thorugh blocks, can evade can stealth and so on, but with this setup in pvp enviroment thief needs time, which is not good in a fast paced action and on such small maps(so in PvP), thieves cant hold point or actually it can but will die in 15-20 seconds because it will loose all ini and evasion, without ini you cant escape, without ini you cant fight back > > > > Thief is now a fine class it can do many things, but while doing 1-2 things it cant do 2-4 other things all the classes should be tone down to its level > > > > Please note when i wrote this i was angry for my family, for my gf, and even failed an important exam, so sorry if its tone is a bit rough > > > > 1. Most of my experience comes from playing the class and testing. Please don't insult your intelligence by not knowing your class. > 2. From this I can already tell either you don't know how to play thief, or you don't know what your traits do, or maybe you don't know what your utilities do. It would do you some good to maybe wiki your utilities, test builds, and then come back to this discussion when you are informed and not relying on meta battle. > 3. If you don't know how to properly manage and play your class. Again. It's a you problem, and you need to actually learn and read. 15-20 seconds? If you haven't managed to make your opponent waste the majority of their CD's then again this is a you problem. Please don't spam your abilities? This shouldn't have to be said it's 2018 unless you are completely new. > And shortbow.. I remember back in 2013 or 2014 I think it was sind or someone on stream talking about how new thieves don't know how to properly use shortbow. It's a pretty versatile weapon in the hands of pro players and was used both offensively and defensively in many esl tournaments ( like the poison field that would negate banner plays from warriors was A plus comedy). I would suggest playing with SB more and learning when to use it. And I'm surprised you don't know how good that weapon is, then again you seem to not know a lot about your strengths. > Oh and initiative is not a cooldown, it's a resource, stop spamming things and manage it properly. > 4. Condi cleanse on an icd. A one second icd, using a utility slot or two and dodging or blinding burst. Speaking from a d/p stand point you are never completely overwhelmed when fighting Condi, while I do agree , Condi application in this game is broken beyond belief, you also have utilities, and traits to help you deal with them. But you should never be in a position where you have one Condi cleanse in this game mode. That is something a bronze player does. Especially given the frequency of double scourge and Condi mirage in this meta right now. I would suggest you try planning for things and testing instead of following someone else's build, then practicing those variations. > If you want some practice, I can grab some of the people and myself who do duels and schedule a time on the weekend we can duel and go over things if you need help learning your new class. I personally am still learning new things and tactics every day, no shame in admitting you need help. > > And concentrate on real life stuff first. You can come back to the game at any time. You can't redo life. Take a break and come back when life is settled. > > PS > What build are you running? Just curious what you are playing with utilities and traits. > > Edit: If anyone has some good rev tricks you'd like to share always looking. I'm currently relearning Herald cause it's fun af > > Edit2: I told you, thief has more Condi cleanses. You need to look more into your class. > "Vallun.2071" said: > > > > Just so u can see clear i have around 3k hours on thief, 2k pvp matches behind me, made thief builds for former leading Deso WvW Guilds, also a well known roamer there, i never encouraged to use and never really used metabattle, always starting arguments when people say its a must follow guide. And again you just said that im a noobie i should learn, read an all ,but said no statement that what skills would do that or that etc.. Ps: 2018 shortbow is an utility, placing down poison to mess up revive is an utility thingy, if you move your character fast with A and D you can evade Trickshot projectiles because how slow they are, the only damage dealer on SB is ClusterBomb and basically only good when you explode it at the moment when u fired it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solori.6025 Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 > @"Menyus.4610" said: > Just so you can see clear , i have around 3k hours on thief like 2k pvp matches on it, made builds for former big Deso wvw guilds, im quite a well know roamer on Deso, never used metabattle and i never encourage it, > @"Solori.6025" said: > > > @"Menyus.4610" said: > > > > @"Solori.6025" said: > > > > > @"Menyus.4610" said: > > > > > 1. Power thieves must take trickery for increased ini pool thats -1 build diversity > > > > I wouldn't call build diversity a sacrifice because you honestly have nothing else that I would find comparable to trickery. Increased initiative, Boons on steal or quickness when you strike a target from behind, a boon rip or condi cleanse on trickery use, and a condi trait or CC. That line has more bread and butter for most builds than any other line.\ > > > > > 2. They need atleast 70% critical chance all the time because they skills without critical deals little damage, cant pick from much amulets > > > > This is purely subjective, as being over 45% leads to a decent crit chance already and depending on the build though you will be sitting at 100% when you open from stealth. > > > > > 3. They cant really condi cleanse, only reliable cleanse is on 40 sec cd and also thats their stunbreaking, before it cleanses also triggers confusion damage twice > > > > This is 100% false. > > > > > 4. And for my original statement if you are going for god like 1v1 build you basically become useless for your team, because either you will need minutes to win a fight, while enemy can decap and hold the point, you also loose you mobility too which is kinda become a joke over they years, most mobile class my A**, its more like the most mobile class that cant do kitten after it was "mobile" > > > > > > > > Also subjective, but that isn't what I asked you. I asked what do you sacrifice. > > > > A thief's kit is unique in it's own because you fill the roaming role very well. But you can also do things that render you pretty much uncatchable, or removes condi's at a pretty reliable rate. > > > > You have the unique position where you can also bait and wait out cooldowns, this is because of the classes abhorrent amounts of access to stealth. > > > > Their is a reason why for the majority of this games life time thieves were the roaming class and the +1 class. No other class could fill that role like thieves could, and when they did ( revenant) they were almost immediately taken out of the equation from a constant barrage of nerfs. But i digress, because that isn't what were were talking about or relevant to the question. > > > > A Thief sacrifices very little but they do sacrifice some things like other classes do ( not so little as mesmer with Elusive Mind, which as has been pointed out needs to be changed completely) > > > > > > > > If you want condi cleanse, you can trait for it and/or grab utilities for it. > > > > If you want more damage you can trait for it, and/or grab utilities for it. > > > > If you want more stealth, you can trait for it and/or grab utilities for it > > > > > > > > Pick two essentially. ( I would hope I don't need to breakdown why or how this is logical) > > > > > > > > If you are having issues with mobility....I honestly don't know who you could ask, because I don't know how you are exclusively having this problem > > > > > > > > Edit: If you want to know what sacrifice is, play Rev. > > > > > > 1. I wouldn't even comment it feel like you just typed thief wiki traits into google and tried to say something smart, while metioning traits that maybe silver t2 thieves use > > > 2. "45% is a decent crit chance for thief?" , dude why are you commeting if you are obviously have no idea about how thief works, "depending on the build though you will be sitting at 100% when you open from stealth" do you see thieves using cs? no becauase of trickery ini pool, without increased ini you cant use this advantage because of the lack of stealth you can produce > > > 3. Please teach us master, how to condi cleanse on thief reliably apart from movement impairing ones, using 5 initiative to cleanse one random condi with sword?, traiting into DrD to cleanse condi on dodge with icd and with the new nerf to dash?, or picking up sigil of agility for condi cleanse a skill which ofc also got nerfed, saying false is not really an argument, or just use some passive trait that you have no idea when it will triger, oh wait i totally forgot if you choose this trait you use one of the most important trait for acro thieves, thieves condi cleanse is evasion you not get hit by the condi you ok, one mistake and you are ***** > > > 4. Here again i tell you what thieves sacrafice: > > > - for fast spike damage they sacrafice survivability > > > - for mobility they sacrafice a weaponslot, SH on thief is purely an Utility weapon, its projectiles are slow and even have casttimes even Infiltrator's Arrow have a delay, how many times you see a thief without a bow? > > > - Thief god 1v1 build is s/d and d/p, with this setup it can get the upperhand in every fight, can eat thorugh blocks, can evade can stealth and so on, but with this setup in pvp enviroment thief needs time, which is not good in a fast paced action and on such small maps(so in PvP), thieves cant hold point or actually it can but will die in 15-20 seconds because it will loose all ini and evasion, without ini you cant escape, without ini you cant fight back > > > > > > Thief is now a fine class it can do many things, but while doing 1-2 things it cant do 2-4 other things all the classes should be tone down to its level > > > > > > Please note when i wrote this i was angry for my family, for my gf, and even failed an important exam, so sorry if its tone is a bit rough > > > > > > > 1. Most of my experience comes from playing the class and testing. Please don't insult your intelligence by not knowing your class. > > 2. From this I can already tell either you don't know how to play thief, or you don't know what your traits do, or maybe you don't know what your utilities do. It would do you some good to maybe wiki your utilities, test builds, and then come back to this discussion when you are informed and not relying on meta battle. > > 3. If you don't know how to properly manage and play your class. Again. It's a you problem, and you need to actually learn and read. 15-20 seconds? If you haven't managed to make your opponent waste the majority of their CD's then again this is a you problem. Please don't spam your abilities? This shouldn't have to be said it's 2018 unless you are completely new. > > And shortbow.. I remember back in 2013 or 2014 I think it was sind or someone on stream talking about how new thieves don't know how to properly use shortbow. It's a pretty versatile weapon in the hands of pro players and was used both offensively and defensively in many esl tournaments ( like the poison field that would negate banner plays from warriors was A plus comedy). I would suggest playing with SB more and learning when to use it. And I'm surprised you don't know how good that weapon is, then again you seem to not know a lot about your strengths. > > Oh and initiative is not a cooldown, it's a resource, stop spamming things and manage it properly. > > 4. Condi cleanse on an icd. A one second icd, using a utility slot or two and dodging or blinding burst. Speaking from a d/p stand point you are never completely overwhelmed when fighting Condi, while I do agree , Condi application in this game is broken beyond belief, you also have utilities, and traits to help you deal with them. But you should never be in a position where you have one Condi cleanse in this game mode. That is something a bronze player does. Especially given the frequency of double scourge and Condi mirage in this meta right now. I would suggest you try planning for things and testing instead of following someone else's build, then practicing those variations. > > If you want some practice, I can grab some of the people and myself who do duels and schedule a time on the weekend we can duel and go over things if you need help learning your new class. I personally am still learning new things and tactics every day, no shame in admitting you need help. > > > > And concentrate on real life stuff first. You can come back to the game at any time. You can't redo life. Take a break and come back when life is settled. > > > > PS > > What build are you running? Just curious what you are playing with utilities and traits. > > > > Edit: If anyone has some good rev tricks you'd like to share always looking. I'm currently relearning Herald cause it's fun af > > > > Edit2: I told you, thief has more Condi cleanses. You need to look more into your class. > > "Vallun.2071" said: > > > > > > > > > Just so u can see clear i have around 3k hours on thief, 2k pvp matches behind me, made thief builds for former leading Deso WvW Guilds, also a well known roamer there, i never encouraged to use and never really used metabattle, always starting arguments when people say its a must follow guide. > And again you just said that im a noobie i should learn, read an all ,but said no statement that what skills would do that or that etc.. > Ps: 2018 shortbow is an utility, placing down poison to mess up revive is an utility thingy, if you move your character fast with A and D you can evade Trickshot projectiles because how slow they are, the only damage dealer on SB is ClusterBomb and basically only good when you explode it at the moment when u fired it ?? Am I supposed to list condition cleanses for you?? Because I did you one better, and I linked you a video explaining how to Condi cleanse on thief, I could go and list every skill, but what good does a list do if you don't know when or how to use them. Thus the video. I don't know if you are confusing roaming with matches, so I asked for what you are using. I can't see any image you have, but if you have such a long tenure on thief, then you shouldn't be having a hard time figuring out how to deal with the issues you're having, both mobility and condition cleanses. But since you are I have to ask, what are you running? How are you playing? Do you need help? Also I don't follow EU and I'm NA, so I'm not sure of what meta you guys have in WvW. I imagine your Spvp meta is closer to NA though? Edit: Just to be certain are you using shortbow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menyus.4610 Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 > @"Solori.6025" said: > > @"Menyus.4610" said: > > Just so you can see clear , i have around 3k hours on thief like 2k pvp matches on it, made builds for former big Deso wvw guilds, im quite a well know roamer on Deso, never used metabattle and i never encourage it, > @"Solori.6025" said: > > > > @"Menyus.4610" said: > > > > > @"Solori.6025" said: > > > > > > @"Menyus.4610" said: > > > > > > 1. Power thieves must take trickery for increased ini pool thats -1 build diversity > > > > > I wouldn't call build diversity a sacrifice because you honestly have nothing else that I would find comparable to trickery. Increased initiative, Boons on steal or quickness when you strike a target from behind, a boon rip or condi cleanse on trickery use, and a condi trait or CC. That line has more bread and butter for most builds than any other line.\ > > > > > > 2. They need atleast 70% critical chance all the time because they skills without critical deals little damage, cant pick from much amulets > > > > > This is purely subjective, as being over 45% leads to a decent crit chance already and depending on the build though you will be sitting at 100% when you open from stealth. > > > > > > 3. They cant really condi cleanse, only reliable cleanse is on 40 sec cd and also thats their stunbreaking, before it cleanses also triggers confusion damage twice > > > > > This is 100% false. > > > > > > 4. And for my original statement if you are going for god like 1v1 build you basically become useless for your team, because either you will need minutes to win a fight, while enemy can decap and hold the point, you also loose you mobility too which is kinda become a joke over they years, most mobile class my A**, its more like the most mobile class that cant do kitten after it was "mobile" > > > > > > > > > > Also subjective, but that isn't what I asked you. I asked what do you sacrifice. > > > > > A thief's kit is unique in it's own because you fill the roaming role very well. But you can also do things that render you pretty much uncatchable, or removes condi's at a pretty reliable rate. > > > > > You have the unique position where you can also bait and wait out cooldowns, this is because of the classes abhorrent amounts of access to stealth. > > > > > Their is a reason why for the majority of this games life time thieves were the roaming class and the +1 class. No other class could fill that role like thieves could, and when they did ( revenant) they were almost immediately taken out of the equation from a constant barrage of nerfs. But i digress, because that isn't what were were talking about or relevant to the question. > > > > > A Thief sacrifices very little but they do sacrifice some things like other classes do ( not so little as mesmer with Elusive Mind, which as has been pointed out needs to be changed completely) > > > > > > > > > > If you want condi cleanse, you can trait for it and/or grab utilities for it. > > > > > If you want more damage you can trait for it, and/or grab utilities for it. > > > > > If you want more stealth, you can trait for it and/or grab utilities for it > > > > > > > > > > Pick two essentially. ( I would hope I don't need to breakdown why or how this is logical) > > > > > > > > > > If you are having issues with mobility....I honestly don't know who you could ask, because I don't know how you are exclusively having this problem > > > > > > > > > > Edit: If you want to know what sacrifice is, play Rev. > > > > > > > > 1. I wouldn't even comment it feel like you just typed thief wiki traits into google and tried to say something smart, while metioning traits that maybe silver t2 thieves use > > > > 2. "45% is a decent crit chance for thief?" , dude why are you commeting if you are obviously have no idea about how thief works, "depending on the build though you will be sitting at 100% when you open from stealth" do you see thieves using cs? no becauase of trickery ini pool, without increased ini you cant use this advantage because of the lack of stealth you can produce > > > > 3. Please teach us master, how to condi cleanse on thief reliably apart from movement impairing ones, using 5 initiative to cleanse one random condi with sword?, traiting into DrD to cleanse condi on dodge with icd and with the new nerf to dash?, or picking up sigil of agility for condi cleanse a skill which ofc also got nerfed, saying false is not really an argument, or just use some passive trait that you have no idea when it will triger, oh wait i totally forgot if you choose this trait you use one of the most important trait for acro thieves, thieves condi cleanse is evasion you not get hit by the condi you ok, one mistake and you are ***** > > > > 4. Here again i tell you what thieves sacrafice: > > > > - for fast spike damage they sacrafice survivability > > > > - for mobility they sacrafice a weaponslot, SH on thief is purely an Utility weapon, its projectiles are slow and even have casttimes even Infiltrator's Arrow have a delay, how many times you see a thief without a bow? > > > > - Thief god 1v1 build is s/d and d/p, with this setup it can get the upperhand in every fight, can eat thorugh blocks, can evade can stealth and so on, but with this setup in pvp enviroment thief needs time, which is not good in a fast paced action and on such small maps(so in PvP), thieves cant hold point or actually it can but will die in 15-20 seconds because it will loose all ini and evasion, without ini you cant escape, without ini you cant fight back > > > > > > > > Thief is now a fine class it can do many things, but while doing 1-2 things it cant do 2-4 other things all the classes should be tone down to its level > > > > > > > > Please note when i wrote this i was angry for my family, for my gf, and even failed an important exam, so sorry if its tone is a bit rough > > > > > > > > > > 1. Most of my experience comes from playing the class and testing. Please don't insult your intelligence by not knowing your class. > > > 2. From this I can already tell either you don't know how to play thief, or you don't know what your traits do, or maybe you don't know what your utilities do. It would do you some good to maybe wiki your utilities, test builds, and then come back to this discussion when you are informed and not relying on meta battle. > > > 3. If you don't know how to properly manage and play your class. Again. It's a you problem, and you need to actually learn and read. 15-20 seconds? If you haven't managed to make your opponent waste the majority of their CD's then again this is a you problem. Please don't spam your abilities? This shouldn't have to be said it's 2018 unless you are completely new. > > > And shortbow.. I remember back in 2013 or 2014 I think it was sind or someone on stream talking about how new thieves don't know how to properly use shortbow. It's a pretty versatile weapon in the hands of pro players and was used both offensively and defensively in many esl tournaments ( like the poison field that would negate banner plays from warriors was A plus comedy). I would suggest playing with SB more and learning when to use it. And I'm surprised you don't know how good that weapon is, then again you seem to not know a lot about your strengths. > > > Oh and initiative is not a cooldown, it's a resource, stop spamming things and manage it properly. > > > 4. Condi cleanse on an icd. A one second icd, using a utility slot or two and dodging or blinding burst. Speaking from a d/p stand point you are never completely overwhelmed when fighting Condi, while I do agree , Condi application in this game is broken beyond belief, you also have utilities, and traits to help you deal with them. But you should never be in a position where you have one Condi cleanse in this game mode. That is something a bronze player does. Especially given the frequency of double scourge and Condi mirage in this meta right now. I would suggest you try planning for things and testing instead of following someone else's build, then practicing those variations. > > > If you want some practice, I can grab some of the people and myself who do duels and schedule a time on the weekend we can duel and go over things if you need help learning your new class. I personally am still learning new things and tactics every day, no shame in admitting you need help. > > > > > > And concentrate on real life stuff first. You can come back to the game at any time. You can't redo life. Take a break and come back when life is settled. > > > > > > PS > > > What build are you running? Just curious what you are playing with utilities and traits. > > > > > > Edit: If anyone has some good rev tricks you'd like to share always looking. I'm currently relearning Herald cause it's fun af > > > > > > Edit2: I told you, thief has more Condi cleanses. You need to look more into your class. > > > "Vallun.2071" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just so u can see clear i have around 3k hours on thief, 2k pvp matches behind me, made thief builds for former leading Deso WvW Guilds, also a well known roamer there, i never encouraged to use and never really used metabattle, always starting arguments when people say its a must follow guide. > > And again you just said that im a noobie i should learn, read an all ,but said no statement that what skills would do that or that etc.. > > Ps: 2018 shortbow is an utility, placing down poison to mess up revive is an utility thingy, if you move your character fast with A and D you can evade Trickshot projectiles because how slow they are, the only damage dealer on SB is ClusterBomb and basically only good when you explode it at the moment when u fired it > > ?? Am I supposed to list condition cleanses for you?? > Because I did you one better, and I linked you a video explaining how to Condi cleanse on thief, I could go and list every skill, but what good does a list do if you don't know when or how to use them. Thus the video. > > I don't know if you are confusing roaming with matches, so I asked for what you are using. > > I can't see any image you have, but if you have such a long tenure on thief, then you shouldn't be having a hard time figuring out how to deal with the issues you're having, both mobility and condition cleanses. But since you are I have to ask, what are you running? How are you playing? Do you need help? > Also I don't follow EU and I'm NA, so I'm not sure of what meta you guys have in WvW. I imagine your Spvp meta is closer to NA though? > Edit: > Just to be certain are you using shortbow? Dude if i want i can trait into full condi cleanse, il only use ini to cleanse put on agility trickery remove condi on using tricks and all, but i dont think my teameates would appreciate it, i dont need help, i never said i need, i dont have problem with playing thief unless i play against good players where the current state of thief will be reveleaed, we talk here about power thieves we are not playing condi thieves PvP forums are for the experienced players none wants to fuck up its team with a condi thief, thief has issues but this forum post is not about thieves but the state of mirage, i just made a statement that thieves need to sacrafice for something not like mirages Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solori.6025 Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 > @"Menyus.4610" said: > > @"Solori.6025" said: > > > @"Menyus.4610" said: > > > Just so you can see clear , i have around 3k hours on thief like 2k pvp matches on it, made builds for former big Deso wvw guilds, im quite a well know roamer on Deso, never used metabattle and i never encourage it, > @"Solori.6025" said: > > > > > @"Menyus.4610" said: > > > > > > @"Solori.6025" said: > > > > > > > @"Menyus.4610" said: > > > > > > > 1. Power thieves must take trickery for increased ini pool thats -1 build diversity > > > > > > I wouldn't call build diversity a sacrifice because you honestly have nothing else that I would find comparable to trickery. Increased initiative, Boons on steal or quickness when you strike a target from behind, a boon rip or condi cleanse on trickery use, and a condi trait or CC. That line has more bread and butter for most builds than any other line.\ > > > > > > > 2. They need atleast 70% critical chance all the time because they skills without critical deals little damage, cant pick from much amulets > > > > > > This is purely subjective, as being over 45% leads to a decent crit chance already and depending on the build though you will be sitting at 100% when you open from stealth. > > > > > > > 3. They cant really condi cleanse, only reliable cleanse is on 40 sec cd and also thats their stunbreaking, before it cleanses also triggers confusion damage twice > > > > > > This is 100% false. > > > > > > > 4. And for my original statement if you are going for god like 1v1 build you basically become useless for your team, because either you will need minutes to win a fight, while enemy can decap and hold the point, you also loose you mobility too which is kinda become a joke over they years, most mobile class my A**, its more like the most mobile class that cant do kitten after it was "mobile" > > > > > > > > > > > > Also subjective, but that isn't what I asked you. I asked what do you sacrifice. > > > > > > A thief's kit is unique in it's own because you fill the roaming role very well. But you can also do things that render you pretty much uncatchable, or removes condi's at a pretty reliable rate. > > > > > > You have the unique position where you can also bait and wait out cooldowns, this is because of the classes abhorrent amounts of access to stealth. > > > > > > Their is a reason why for the majority of this games life time thieves were the roaming class and the +1 class. No other class could fill that role like thieves could, and when they did ( revenant) they were almost immediately taken out of the equation from a constant barrage of nerfs. But i digress, because that isn't what were were talking about or relevant to the question. > > > > > > A Thief sacrifices very little but they do sacrifice some things like other classes do ( not so little as mesmer with Elusive Mind, which as has been pointed out needs to be changed completely) > > > > > > > > > > > > If you want condi cleanse, you can trait for it and/or grab utilities for it. > > > > > > If you want more damage you can trait for it, and/or grab utilities for it. > > > > > > If you want more stealth, you can trait for it and/or grab utilities for it > > > > > > > > > > > > Pick two essentially. ( I would hope I don't need to breakdown why or how this is logical) > > > > > > > > > > > > If you are having issues with mobility....I honestly don't know who you could ask, because I don't know how you are exclusively having this problem > > > > > > > > > > > > Edit: If you want to know what sacrifice is, play Rev. > > > > > > > > > > 1. I wouldn't even comment it feel like you just typed thief wiki traits into google and tried to say something smart, while metioning traits that maybe silver t2 thieves use > > > > > 2. "45% is a decent crit chance for thief?" , dude why are you commeting if you are obviously have no idea about how thief works, "depending on the build though you will be sitting at 100% when you open from stealth" do you see thieves using cs? no becauase of trickery ini pool, without increased ini you cant use this advantage because of the lack of stealth you can produce > > > > > 3. Please teach us master, how to condi cleanse on thief reliably apart from movement impairing ones, using 5 initiative to cleanse one random condi with sword?, traiting into DrD to cleanse condi on dodge with icd and with the new nerf to dash?, or picking up sigil of agility for condi cleanse a skill which ofc also got nerfed, saying false is not really an argument, or just use some passive trait that you have no idea when it will triger, oh wait i totally forgot if you choose this trait you use one of the most important trait for acro thieves, thieves condi cleanse is evasion you not get hit by the condi you ok, one mistake and you are ***** > > > > > 4. Here again i tell you what thieves sacrafice: > > > > > - for fast spike damage they sacrafice survivability > > > > > - for mobility they sacrafice a weaponslot, SH on thief is purely an Utility weapon, its projectiles are slow and even have casttimes even Infiltrator's Arrow have a delay, how many times you see a thief without a bow? > > > > > - Thief god 1v1 build is s/d and d/p, with this setup it can get the upperhand in every fight, can eat thorugh blocks, can evade can stealth and so on, but with this setup in pvp enviroment thief needs time, which is not good in a fast paced action and on such small maps(so in PvP), thieves cant hold point or actually it can but will die in 15-20 seconds because it will loose all ini and evasion, without ini you cant escape, without ini you cant fight back > > > > > > > > > > Thief is now a fine class it can do many things, but while doing 1-2 things it cant do 2-4 other things all the classes should be tone down to its level > > > > > > > > > > Please note when i wrote this i was angry for my family, for my gf, and even failed an important exam, so sorry if its tone is a bit rough > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Most of my experience comes from playing the class and testing. Please don't insult your intelligence by not knowing your class. > > > > 2. From this I can already tell either you don't know how to play thief, or you don't know what your traits do, or maybe you don't know what your utilities do. It would do you some good to maybe wiki your utilities, test builds, and then come back to this discussion when you are informed and not relying on meta battle. > > > > 3. If you don't know how to properly manage and play your class. Again. It's a you problem, and you need to actually learn and read. 15-20 seconds? If you haven't managed to make your opponent waste the majority of their CD's then again this is a you problem. Please don't spam your abilities? This shouldn't have to be said it's 2018 unless you are completely new. > > > > And shortbow.. I remember back in 2013 or 2014 I think it was sind or someone on stream talking about how new thieves don't know how to properly use shortbow. It's a pretty versatile weapon in the hands of pro players and was used both offensively and defensively in many esl tournaments ( like the poison field that would negate banner plays from warriors was A plus comedy). I would suggest playing with SB more and learning when to use it. And I'm surprised you don't know how good that weapon is, then again you seem to not know a lot about your strengths. > > > > Oh and initiative is not a cooldown, it's a resource, stop spamming things and manage it properly. > > > > 4. Condi cleanse on an icd. A one second icd, using a utility slot or two and dodging or blinding burst. Speaking from a d/p stand point you are never completely overwhelmed when fighting Condi, while I do agree , Condi application in this game is broken beyond belief, you also have utilities, and traits to help you deal with them. But you should never be in a position where you have one Condi cleanse in this game mode. That is something a bronze player does. Especially given the frequency of double scourge and Condi mirage in this meta right now. I would suggest you try planning for things and testing instead of following someone else's build, then practicing those variations. > > > > If you want some practice, I can grab some of the people and myself who do duels and schedule a time on the weekend we can duel and go over things if you need help learning your new class. I personally am still learning new things and tactics every day, no shame in admitting you need help. > > > > > > > > And concentrate on real life stuff first. You can come back to the game at any time. You can't redo life. Take a break and come back when life is settled. > > > > > > > > PS > > > > What build are you running? Just curious what you are playing with utilities and traits. > > > > > > > > Edit: If anyone has some good rev tricks you'd like to share always looking. I'm currently relearning Herald cause it's fun af > > > > > > > > Edit2: I told you, thief has more Condi cleanses. You need to look more into your class. > > > > "Vallun.2071" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just so u can see clear i have around 3k hours on thief, 2k pvp matches behind me, made thief builds for former leading Deso WvW Guilds, also a well known roamer there, i never encouraged to use and never really used metabattle, always starting arguments when people say its a must follow guide. > > > And again you just said that im a noobie i should learn, read an all ,but said no statement that what skills would do that or that etc.. > > > Ps: 2018 shortbow is an utility, placing down poison to mess up revive is an utility thingy, if you move your character fast with A and D you can evade Trickshot projectiles because how slow they are, the only damage dealer on SB is ClusterBomb and basically only good when you explode it at the moment when u fired it > > > > ?? Am I supposed to list condition cleanses for you?? > > Because I did you one better, and I linked you a video explaining how to Condi cleanse on thief, I could go and list every skill, but what good does a list do if you don't know when or how to use them. Thus the video. > > > > I don't know if you are confusing roaming with matches, so I asked for what you are using. > > > > I can't see any image you have, but if you have such a long tenure on thief, then you shouldn't be having a hard time figuring out how to deal with the issues you're having, both mobility and condition cleanses. But since you are I have to ask, what are you running? How are you playing? Do you need help? > > Also I don't follow EU and I'm NA, so I'm not sure of what meta you guys have in WvW. I imagine your Spvp meta is closer to NA though? > > Edit: > > Just to be certain are you using shortbow? > > Dude if i want i can trait into full condi cleanse, il only use ini to cleanse put on agility trickery remove condi on using tricks and all, but i dont think my teameates would appreciate it, i dont need help, i never said i need Oh? So does that mean >They cant really condi cleanse, only reliable cleanse is on 40 sec cd and also thats their stunbreaking, before it cleanses also triggers confusion damage twice Is 100% false....because now you say that Thief can condi cleanse...So which is it? Either you can or you can't. Seems to me that you do have other reliable sources of condi cleanses. Unless you would like to explain why the ones you would trait into and utilize would be unreliable. Do you know what reliable means? > i dont have problem with playing thief unless i play against good players where the current state of thief will be reveleaed, That sounds like a " I get outplayed problem" but it's ok We all have our moments. > we talk here about power thieves we are not playing condi thieves PvP forums are for the experienced players none wants to kitten up its team with a condi thief, thief has issues but this forum post is not about thieves but the state of mirage, i just made a statement that thieves need to sacrafice for something not like mirages Hmmm.. You seem to misunderstand the point of that video I linked so I'll try and explain again. From your statement >They cant really condi cleanse, only reliable cleanse is on 40 sec cd and also thats their stunbreaking, before it cleanses also triggers confusion damage twice I showed that (with video evidence btw)i is actually False. I gave you a video showing a thief (Whom played P/P power...a power thief.......**Power thief**) used cleanses ( more than shadow step) to get rid of condies. It illustrates a couple of things. One- You have more than one cleanse. Two- You have ways to deal with condies without sacrificing the world and build as you seem to make it. I don't know what else I could say to make that any more clear. The take away is, you lied. Plain and simple. Take a breath, I ask if you need help because I have never seen or had an issue with dealing with condies to your degree, and I have 9k hours in this game, about 2k on thief, So i scratch my head at how you are having these issues. So I'll ask again ** What build are you using?** I don't understand why or what you are afraid of that you wont show or link your build Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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