musu.9205 Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 and btw most problems on mirage are pointed out by mesmer main on mes sub forum long before it became op .like EM and sword ambush . but hey we just have to attack mesmer main for not agreeing with a thread titled as "gut mes" or those insane misinformation . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowpass.4236 Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 > @"musu.9205" said: > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > It's funny watching the same people who defended chrono, defend mirage in the exact same way. > > > > "Chrono doesn't need damage nerfs. It's telegraphed." - Mesmer mains > > > > -receives 50% damage nerfs- > > > > lel > > yeah after the nerf , the core problem remains , but you know chrono is now literally out of meta and pretty much dead , and few skills are back to trash tier . > sure mesmer main were wrong lol Chrono is fine. It's just not dominating like it was before. The build is still extremely tanky and does decent damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musu.9205 Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > @"musu.9205" said: > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > It's funny watching the same people who defended chrono, defend mirage in the exact same way. > > > > > > "Chrono doesn't need damage nerfs. It's telegraphed." - Mesmer mains > > > > > > -receives 50% damage nerfs- > > > > > > lel > > > > yeah after the nerf , the core problem remains , but you know chrono is now literally out of meta and pretty much dead , and few skills are back to trash tier . > > sure mesmer main were wrong lol > > Chrono is fine. It's just not dominating like it was before. The build is still extremely tanky and does decent damage. tanky doesn't do anything , come on its not a support build . and did you read what i said , the problems of that build remain. its just far less useful . the 50% damage nerf fixed nothing .and stability overnerf or uncalled iwarlock nerf are just lol . mes gs and staff had all those bad nerfs for years by now . two weapon are carried by skill 2 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowpass.4236 Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 > @"musu.9205" said: > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > @"musu.9205" said: > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > It's funny watching the same people who defended chrono, defend mirage in the exact same way. > > > > > > > > "Chrono doesn't need damage nerfs. It's telegraphed." - Mesmer mains > > > > > > > > -receives 50% damage nerfs- > > > > > > > > lel > > > > > > yeah after the nerf , the core problem remains , but you know chrono is now literally out of meta and pretty much dead , and few skills are back to trash tier . > > > sure mesmer main were wrong lol > > > > Chrono is fine. It's just not dominating like it was before. The build is still extremely tanky and does decent damage. > > tanky doesn't do anything , come on its not a support build . and did you read what i said , the problems of that build remain. its just far less useful . the 50% damage nerf fixed nothing .and stability overnerf or uncalled iwarlock nerf are just lol . mes gs and staff had all those bad nerfs for years by now . two weapon are carried by skill 2 . Druid isn't a support build either yet it has no damage, no utility, and no sustain. There are plenty of builds much worse off than chrono is atm. I don't see any reason for complaining especially since it's still a viable build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musu.9205 Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > @"musu.9205" said: > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > @"musu.9205" said: > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > It's funny watching the same people who defended chrono, defend mirage in the exact same way. > > > > > > > > > > "Chrono doesn't need damage nerfs. It's telegraphed." - Mesmer mains > > > > > > > > > > -receives 50% damage nerfs- > > > > > > > > > > lel > > > > > > > > yeah after the nerf , the core problem remains , but you know chrono is now literally out of meta and pretty much dead , and few skills are back to trash tier . > > > > sure mesmer main were wrong lol > > > > > > Chrono is fine. It's just not dominating like it was before. The build is still extremely tanky and does decent damage. > > > > tanky doesn't do anything , come on its not a support build . and did you read what i said , the problems of that build remain. its just far less useful . the 50% damage nerf fixed nothing .and stability overnerf or uncalled iwarlock nerf are just lol . mes gs and staff had all those bad nerfs for years by now . two weapon are carried by skill 2 . > > Druid isn't a support build either yet it has no damage, no utility, and no sustain. > > There are plenty of builds much worse off than chrono is atm. I don't see any reason for complaining especially since it's still a viable build. why you bring it up anyway or any worse build . I'm not complaining that it's weak of less useful , i was saying mesmer mains were correct , 50% damage nerf did not fix problems of that build. it just threw that build out of meta . it was you complaining about how mesmer mains said 50% dmg nerf were bad . please , don't make it some self pity competition by saying : no , we got it worse . that wasn't the point . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuka Cola.8520 Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 In the next 2 patches Mirage will be nerfed to the ground. Next QQ build will be condi thief. When that's nerfed (in the next 8 months), Spellbreaker will be the next class everyone will qq about cuz its too good at 1v1. When SB is nerfed... in a year, holo will be the thing people will cry about. During the whole duration of these nerfs, Scourge will also be changed to have less aoe spam. That's the future of this game until the next expansion. How exciting........................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagrant.7206 Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 > @"Daishi.6027" said: > > @"Trigr.6481" said: > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > > > @"Kraitan.8476" said: > > > > Title is pretty self explanatory. Think everyone except the mesmer mains can agree. It’s overplayed, WAY too forgiving making it an extremely easy class to do well on and still applies conditions like its a power burst. > > > > > > Mirage is currently being banned entirely in any/all tournaments being held. It's the first specialization as a whole, that is so overpowered, that organizers must omit it completely from any competitive play. > > > > > > Not much more needs to be said other than that. > > > > > > > You must of forgot about the time that a team with 4 ele randoms were taking games off Helseth's team when Esl's were still a thing. > I can kill Mirages on a thief and holo using terrain, I can go even with a burn guard vs power, I can kill condi mirages with necro, I can contest them with Ele, FB, and SB. > Question is why can't you? Holo has a natural advantage on mesmer in general. The PBAoE's that holo puts out is enough to mess with illusions. Neither core engineer nor scrapper have that advantage. Even still, it's usually a very narrow call for me to fight an equally skilled condi mirage on my holo. I have to get some really well-timed dodges at key points and lucky interrupts to have a good chance. Burst shatter is a different matter. > @"Nuka Cola.8520" said: > In the next 2 patches Mirage will be nerfed to the ground. > > Next QQ build will be condi thief. When that's nerfed (in the next 8 months), Spellbreaker will be the next class everyone will qq about cuz its too good at 1v1. When SB is nerfed... in a year, holo will be the thing people will cry about. During the whole duration of these nerfs, Scourge will also be changed to have less aoe spam. That's the future of this game until the next expansion. How exciting........................ All of the PoF elite specs are serious powercreep over HoT and Core. Almost all PoF specs need to be tuned down. Only a few HoT especs/core professions can compete in the current meta, and many of them are still functionally weaker than PoF specs: * Core Guardian/Dragonhunter * Core Thief/Daredevil * Chrono (not as bad as it was) I'd argue that part of the reason for this is because Scourge basically nullifies all other condi builds/classes except mirage, and I do want to see scourge's mechanic changed to stop being so ridiculous. > @"EpicTurtle.8571" said: > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > It's funny watching the same people who defended chrono, defend mirage in the exact same way. > > > > "Chrono doesn't need damage nerfs. It's telegraphed." - Mesmer mains > > > > -receives 50% damage nerfs- > > > > lel > > Nobody said it needed the kind of overboard nerfs people like you suggest. Nerfs sure, your nerfs, good lord no. He was referring to the most recent balance patch notes. Several mesmer illusions received 50% damage nerfs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musu.9205 Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 > @"Nuka Cola.8520" said: > In the next 2 patches Mirage will be nerfed to the ground. > > Next QQ build will be condi thief. When that's nerfed (in the next 8 months), Spellbreaker will be the next class everyone will qq about cuz its too good at 1v1. When SB is nerfed... in a year, holo will be the thing people will cry about. During the whole duration of these nerfs, Scourge will also be changed to have less aoe spam. That's the future of this game until the next expansion. How exciting........................ friendly remind : people complaint about shatter mesmer before hot or trait rework . mesmer complaint thread is forever meta in pvp forum . people should focus on what's healthy and good gameplay , and give suggestion based on a relative practical standard instead of those overreaction over meta builds . Less bandaid , more fundamental changes are what this game needs . but anyway this is like every pvp forum , so don't expect it changes anytime soon . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowpass.4236 Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 > @"musu.9205" said: > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > @"musu.9205" said: > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > @"musu.9205" said: > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > It's funny watching the same people who defended chrono, defend mirage in the exact same way. > > > > > > > > > > > > "Chrono doesn't need damage nerfs. It's telegraphed." - Mesmer mains > > > > > > > > > > > > -receives 50% damage nerfs- > > > > > > > > > > > > lel > > > > > > > > > > yeah after the nerf , the core problem remains , but you know chrono is now literally out of meta and pretty much dead , and few skills are back to trash tier . > > > > > sure mesmer main were wrong lol > > > > > > > > Chrono is fine. It's just not dominating like it was before. The build is still extremely tanky and does decent damage. > > > > > > tanky doesn't do anything , come on its not a support build . and did you read what i said , the problems of that build remain. its just far less useful . the 50% damage nerf fixed nothing .and stability overnerf or uncalled iwarlock nerf are just lol . mes gs and staff had all those bad nerfs for years by now . two weapon are carried by skill 2 . > > > > Druid isn't a support build either yet it has no damage, no utility, and no sustain. > > > > There are plenty of builds much worse off than chrono is atm. I don't see any reason for complaining especially since it's still a viable build. > > why you bring it up anyway or any worse build . > > I'm not complaining that it's weak of less useful , i was saying mesmer mains were correct , 50% damage nerf did not fix problems of that build. it just threw that build out of meta . it was you complaining about how mesmer mains said 50% dmg nerf were bad . > > please , don't make it some self pity competition by saying : no , we got it worse . that wasn't the point . You don't seem to understand. Just because Chrono isn't meta doesn't mean its not viable. It just means its not the "Most. Effective. Tactic. Available." And no, they weren't correct. The major issue with that build was the extremely high damage coupled with extremely high survivability. The 50% damage nerf was justified and well deserved. Chrono is still fine. No reason to complain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musu.9205 Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > @"musu.9205" said: > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > @"musu.9205" said: > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > @"musu.9205" said: > > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > > It's funny watching the same people who defended chrono, defend mirage in the exact same way. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Chrono doesn't need damage nerfs. It's telegraphed." - Mesmer mains > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -receives 50% damage nerfs- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > lel > > > > > > > > > > > > yeah after the nerf , the core problem remains , but you know chrono is now literally out of meta and pretty much dead , and few skills are back to trash tier . > > > > > > sure mesmer main were wrong lol > > > > > > > > > > Chrono is fine. It's just not dominating like it was before. The build is still extremely tanky and does decent damage. > > > > > > > > tanky doesn't do anything , come on its not a support build . and did you read what i said , the problems of that build remain. its just far less useful . the 50% damage nerf fixed nothing .and stability overnerf or uncalled iwarlock nerf are just lol . mes gs and staff had all those bad nerfs for years by now . two weapon are carried by skill 2 . > > > > > > Druid isn't a support build either yet it has no damage, no utility, and no sustain. > > > > > > There are plenty of builds much worse off than chrono is atm. I don't see any reason for complaining especially since it's still a viable build. > > > > why you bring it up anyway or any worse build . > > > > I'm not complaining that it's weak of less useful , i was saying mesmer mains were correct , 50% damage nerf did not fix problems of that build. it just threw that build out of meta . it was you complaining about how mesmer mains said 50% dmg nerf were bad . > > > > please , don't make it some self pity competition by saying : no , we got it worse . that wasn't the point . > > You don't seem to understand. Just because Chrono isn't meta doesn't mean its not viable. It just means its not the "Most. Effective. Tactic. Available." > > And no, they weren't correct. The major issue with that build was the extremely high damage coupled with extremely high survivability. The 50% damage nerf was justified and well deserved. Chrono is still fine. No reason to complain. again i'm not arguing if chrono is viable or not . i don't play that build to begin with . double summon still gives mesmer too many benefits .there are still many pink phantasm filling screen . mesmer elite skills are still bad without chrono due to they are op with cs double cast . and it's not about chrono is fine or not , they nerfed things like iwarlock or stability from BD or idefender which are only op combined with chrono . now they are pretty much useless . follow this sort of balance , we will have more and more unhealthy game design because 50% dmg nerf "worked " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Ketsu.4569 Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 As has been stated many times, the problem is the devs took a class that was already considered a top pick and then massively overbuffed its core mechanics without asking themselves the basic question "What do we want this classes weakness to be?" Because the fact is mes is the only class that as a whole has no real weakness. You can name a problem with every other class that is objectively true, while on the flip side asking a mesmer main who thinks their class is balanced to name a single mes weakness results in them naming something that the class is merely A-tier in. People are getting so used to being class carried that anything below S-tier means "weak". It's actually disgusting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UfoCoffee.2084 Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 Mesmer's defense was meant to be fooling the opponent with clones. But they have access to Tons of evades, sword 2 and f4, torch or signet stealth, blinds etc if all this fails whilst safely applying condis with your pets then blink, jaunt or even portal away. Wait a bit come back and condi bomb again. It's just a pink mess when they attack and it happen in the space of a second from stealth. No time to react and you're covered in condi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Math.5123 Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 > @"musu.9205" said: > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > @"musu.9205" said: > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > @"musu.9205" said: > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > It's funny watching the same people who defended chrono, defend mirage in the exact same way. > > > > > > > > > > > > "Chrono doesn't need damage nerfs. It's telegraphed." - Mesmer mains > > > > > > > > > > > > -receives 50% damage nerfs- > > > > > > > > > > > > lel > > > > > > > > > > yeah after the nerf , the core problem remains , but you know chrono is now literally out of meta and pretty much dead , and few skills are back to trash tier . > > > > > sure mesmer main were wrong lol > > > > > > > > Chrono is fine. It's just not dominating like it was before. The build is still extremely tanky and does decent damage. > > > > > > tanky doesn't do anything , come on its not a support build . and did you read what i said , the problems of that build remain. its just far less useful . the 50% damage nerf fixed nothing .and stability overnerf or uncalled iwarlock nerf are just lol . mes gs and staff had all those bad nerfs for years by now . two weapon are carried by skill 2 . > > > > Druid isn't a support build either yet it has no damage, no utility, and no sustain. > > > > There are plenty of builds much worse off than chrono is atm. I don't see any reason for complaining especially since it's still a viable build. > > why you bring it up anyway or any worse build . > > I'm not complaining that it's weak of less useful , i was saying mesmer mains were correct , 50% damage nerf did not fix problems of that build. it just threw that build out of meta . it was you complaining about how mesmer mains said 50% dmg nerf were bad . > > please , don't make it some self pity competition by saying : no , we got it worse . that wasn't the point The team winning the mAT on eu ran two chronomancers even after the nerfs. I would say it's out of the meta, mirage is just a stronger choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Fear.1624 Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 Mesmer is fine. We just need every class to have some skils updated with "invulnerable breaker" abilities, and puslsing im> @"UfoCoffee.2084" said: > Mesmer's defense was meant to be fooling the opponent with clones. But they have access to Tons of evades, sword 2 and f4, torch or signet stealth, blinds etc if all this fails whilst safely applying condis with your pets then blink, jaunt or even portal away. Wait a bit come back and condi bomb again. > > It's just a pink mess when they attack and it happen in the space of a second from stealth. No time to react and you're covered in condi. They confused thief and mesmer...call it meef...or theifsmer...either way... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Fear.1624 Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 Why are the forums combining 2 of my comments and not allowing me to fix or edit the mistake I did not make? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apharma.3741 Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said: > > @"musu.9205" said: > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > @"musu.9205" said: > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > @"musu.9205" said: > > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > > It's funny watching the same people who defended chrono, defend mirage in the exact same way. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Chrono doesn't need damage nerfs. It's telegraphed." - Mesmer mains > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -receives 50% damage nerfs- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > lel > > > > > > > > > > > > yeah after the nerf , the core problem remains , but you know chrono is now literally out of meta and pretty much dead , and few skills are back to trash tier . > > > > > > sure mesmer main were wrong lol > > > > > > > > > > Chrono is fine. It's just not dominating like it was before. The build is still extremely tanky and does decent damage. > > > > > > > > tanky doesn't do anything , come on its not a support build . and did you read what i said , the problems of that build remain. its just far less useful . the 50% damage nerf fixed nothing .and stability overnerf or uncalled iwarlock nerf are just lol . mes gs and staff had all those bad nerfs for years by now . two weapon are carried by skill 2 . > > > > > > Druid isn't a support build either yet it has no damage, no utility, and no sustain. > > > > > > There are plenty of builds much worse off than chrono is atm. I don't see any reason for complaining especially since it's still a viable build. > > > > why you bring it up anyway or any worse build . > > > > I'm not complaining that it's weak of less useful , i was saying mesmer mains were correct , 50% damage nerf did not fix problems of that build. it just threw that build out of meta . it was you complaining about how mesmer mains said 50% dmg nerf were bad . > > > > please , don't make it some self pity competition by saying : no , we got it worse . that wasn't the point > > The team winning the mAT on eu ran two chronomancers even after the nerfs. I would say it's out of the meta, mirage is just a stronger choice. That same team then played the UGO for real money and dropped the chrono for scourge despite the scourge being one of the best mesmer players in the game now. Unless Frosty or anyone else from R55 is willing to comment why they dropped it then we have to assume they felt it wasn’t better than running a scourge FB combo. Likewise how many chronos are we seeing being played now by other teams? None, that’s ok because it’s a problem when chrono or mesmer is on every team but it’s not a problem when you see FB, scourge and either/or/both holo and spell breaker right? I’m not denying there’s problems with mirage (elusive mind, the sheer amount of confusion and torment, mirage thrust chase potential) however people are behaving like every other class isn’t very busted in areas too. The forums has their own agenda while being very biased and generally unhelpful, no wonder most top players avoid them. I’m still waiting for Mr Boyer to show me how mirage is banned from even half of the tournaments in the game considering it hasn’t been banned from daily or monthly AT, UGO or mist challengers and as far as I can tell not banned from the other NA PvP tournament (if it was banned it wasn’t reflected or updated on the forum post which is poor organisation to say the least) that happened yesterday that almost no-one covered or cared about in EU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Boyer.6524 Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 > @"Master Ketsu.4569" said: > As has been stated many times, the problem is the devs took a class that was already considered a top pick and then massively overbuffed its core mechanics without asking themselves the basic question "What do we want this classes weakness to be?" > > Because the fact is mes is the only class that as a whole has no real weakness. You can name a problem with every other class that is objectively true, while on the flip side asking a mesmer main who thinks their class is balanced to name a single mes weakness results in them naming something that the class is merely A-tier in. > > People are getting so used to being class carried that anything below S-tier means "weak". It's actually disgusting. I was trying to make a post to explain this very concept but you did it for me. @"apharma.3741" There are tournaments ran by guilds that no one ever even mentions in this forum or in reddit, due to private invite only. It's arguable whether you want to acknowledge these as "real tournaments" or not, but they comprise the large majority of tournament activity. Arenanet supported/Shout-casted tournaments are far and in between nowadays. Why private invite only? Because private tournament organizers get tired of seeing guild hosted events pump out thousands of gold to the same 5 guys who always win. Gotta keep it hush because they'll just show up on alts if they learn about it anyway. No offense to those people who always win, just it's nice for the majority of the community to be able to participate in B list tournaments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuka Cola.8520 Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 > @"musu.9205" said: > > @"Nuka Cola.8520" said: > > In the next 2 patches Mirage will be nerfed to the ground. > > > > Next QQ build will be condi thief. When that's nerfed (in the next 8 months), Spellbreaker will be the next class everyone will qq about cuz its too good at 1v1. When SB is nerfed... in a year, holo will be the thing people will cry about. During the whole duration of these nerfs, Scourge will also be changed to have less aoe spam. That's the future of this game until the next expansion. How exciting........................ > > friendly remind : people complaint about shatter mesmer before hot or trait rework . mesmer complaint thread is forever meta in pvp forum . > > people should focus on what's healthy and good gameplay , and give suggestion based on a relative practical standard instead of those overreaction over meta builds . > Less bandaid , more fundamental changes are what this game needs . > but anyway this is like every pvp forum , so don't expect it changes anytime soon . Im well aware on the mes qq'ing since launch, even when they weren't meta at all. But i've never seen so many people crying as we currently have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turk.5460 Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 > @"Nuka Cola.8520" said: > > @"musu.9205" said: > > > @"Nuka Cola.8520" said: > > > In the next 2 patches Mirage will be nerfed to the ground. > > > > > > Next QQ build will be condi thief. When that's nerfed (in the next 8 months), Spellbreaker will be the next class everyone will qq about cuz its too good at 1v1. When SB is nerfed... in a year, holo will be the thing people will cry about. During the whole duration of these nerfs, Scourge will also be changed to have less aoe spam. That's the future of this game until the next expansion. How exciting........................ > > > > friendly remind : people complaint about shatter mesmer before hot or trait rework . mesmer complaint thread is forever meta in pvp forum . > > > > people should focus on what's healthy and good gameplay , and give suggestion based on a relative practical standard instead of those overreaction over meta builds . > > Less bandaid , more fundamental changes are what this game needs . > > but anyway this is like every pvp forum , so don't expect it changes anytime soon . > > Im well aware on the mes qq'ing since launch, even when they weren't meta at all. But i've never seen so many people crying as we currently have. It's almost as if there's some sort of causality regarding the changes and the concerns. Hmmm.... I don't understand how the Mirage mains are so zealously defending such broken mechanics. You guys must be pretty sub-par on the other professions if you're used to being carried by Mirage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azure The Heartless.3261 Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 > @"EpicTurtle.8571" said: > Congratulations on making another Mesmer thread, the rest of them clearly weren't getting the job done. I feel bad for you because you're rational, and I've seen thief and war (which I play the most) implode due to poor balancing several times over. Sorry you have to read these so much lel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EpicTurtle.8571 Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said: > > @"EpicTurtle.8571" said: > > Congratulations on making another Mesmer thread, the rest of them clearly weren't getting the job done. > > I feel bad for you because you're rational, and I've seen thief and war (which I play the most) implode due to poor balancing several times over. > Sorry you have to read these so much lel. I'm considering moving to a more observational role. I have no illusions (no pun intended) that Mirage is overtuned right now, I'd mostly like people to stop implying that I think it's just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apharma.3741 Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > @"Master Ketsu.4569" said: > > As has been stated many times, the problem is the devs took a class that was already considered a top pick and then massively overbuffed its core mechanics without asking themselves the basic question "What do we want this classes weakness to be?" > > > > Because the fact is mes is the only class that as a whole has no real weakness. You can name a problem with every other class that is objectively true, while on the flip side asking a mesmer main who thinks their class is balanced to name a single mes weakness results in them naming something that the class is merely A-tier in. > > > > People are getting so used to being class carried that anything below S-tier means "weak". It's actually disgusting. > > I was trying to make a post to explain this very concept but you did it for me. > > @"apharma.3741" There are tournaments ran by guilds that no one ever even mentions in this forum or in reddit, due to private invite only. It's arguable whether you want to acknowledge these as "real tournaments" or not, but they comprise the large majority of tournament activity. Arenanet supported/Shout-casted tournaments are far and in between nowadays. > > Why private invite only? Because private tournament organizers get tired of seeing guild hosted events pump out thousands of gold to the same 5 guys who always win. Gotta keep it hush because they'll just show up on alts if they learn about it anyway. No offense to those people who always win, just it's nice for the majority of the community to be able to participate in B list tournaments. No I don’t acknowledge private tournaments that are never advertised, are not open to anyone and where it is likewise debatable if they even exist as evidence that any class is being banned in tournaments. Much less that a class is overpowered when these alleged tournaments are being carried out in secret because the people playing them are not good enough to beat the top 10 players in what I’m guessing NA as you’re NA much less top 10 EU. That’s without mentioning that these people certainly have their own agenda for balance if they are not likewise banning scourge and firebrand because those 2 classes make for an extremely boring game to view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Math.5123 Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 > @"apharma.3741" said: > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said: > > > @"musu.9205" said: > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > @"musu.9205" said: > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > > @"musu.9205" said: > > > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > > > It's funny watching the same people who defended chrono, defend mirage in the exact same way. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Chrono doesn't need damage nerfs. It's telegraphed." - Mesmer mains > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -receives 50% damage nerfs- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > lel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yeah after the nerf , the core problem remains , but you know chrono is now literally out of meta and pretty much dead , and few skills are back to trash tier . > > > > > > > sure mesmer main were wrong lol > > > > > > > > > > > > Chrono is fine. It's just not dominating like it was before. The build is still extremely tanky and does decent damage. > > > > > > > > > > tanky doesn't do anything , come on its not a support build . and did you read what i said , the problems of that build remain. its just far less useful . the 50% damage nerf fixed nothing .and stability overnerf or uncalled iwarlock nerf are just lol . mes gs and staff had all those bad nerfs for years by now . two weapon are carried by skill 2 . > > > > > > > > Druid isn't a support build either yet it has no damage, no utility, and no sustain. > > > > > > > > There are plenty of builds much worse off than chrono is atm. I don't see any reason for complaining especially since it's still a viable build. > > > > > > why you bring it up anyway or any worse build . > > > > > > I'm not complaining that it's weak of less useful , i was saying mesmer mains were correct , 50% damage nerf did not fix problems of that build. it just threw that build out of meta . it was you complaining about how mesmer mains said 50% dmg nerf were bad . > > > > > > please , don't make it some self pity competition by saying : no , we got it worse . that wasn't the point > > > > The team winning the mAT on eu ran two chronomancers even after the nerfs. I would say it's out of the meta, mirage is just a stronger choice. > > That same team then played the UGO for real money and dropped the chrono for scourge despite the scourge being one of the best mesmer players in the game now. Unless Frosty or anyone else from R55 is willing to comment why they dropped it then we have to assume they felt it wasn’t better than running a scourge FB combo. > > Likewise how many chronos are we seeing being played now by other teams? None, that’s ok because it’s a problem when chrono or mesmer is on every team but it’s not a problem when you see FB, scourge and either/or/both holo and spell breaker right? I’m not denying there’s problems with mirage (elusive mind, the sheer amount of confusion and torment, mirage thrust chase potential) however people are behaving like every other class isn’t very busted in areas too. > > The forums has their own agenda while being very biased and generally unhelpful, no wonder most top players avoid them. > > I’m still waiting for Mr Boyer to show me how mirage is banned from even half of the tournaments in the game considering it hasn’t been banned from daily or monthly AT, UGO or mist challengers and as far as I can tell not banned from the other NA PvP tournament (if it was banned it wasn’t reflected or updated on the forum post which is poor organisation to say the least) that happened yesterday that almost no-one covered or cared about in EU. No, they dropped a mesmer in mist Challenger. Not in Ugo. That was because Chronomancer was banned and you were not allowed to stack mirages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortrialus.3062 Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said: > > @"musu.9205" said: > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > @"musu.9205" said: > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > @"musu.9205" said: > > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > > It's funny watching the same people who defended chrono, defend mirage in the exact same way. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Chrono doesn't need damage nerfs. It's telegraphed." - Mesmer mains > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -receives 50% damage nerfs- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > lel > > > > > > > > > > > > yeah after the nerf , the core problem remains , but you know chrono is now literally out of meta and pretty much dead , and few skills are back to trash tier . > > > > > > sure mesmer main were wrong lol > > > > > > > > > > Chrono is fine. It's just not dominating like it was before. The build is still extremely tanky and does decent damage. > > > > > > > > tanky doesn't do anything , come on its not a support build . and did you read what i said , the problems of that build remain. its just far less useful . the 50% damage nerf fixed nothing .and stability overnerf or uncalled iwarlock nerf are just lol . mes gs and staff had all those bad nerfs for years by now . two weapon are carried by skill 2 . > > > > > > Druid isn't a support build either yet it has no damage, no utility, and no sustain. > > > > > > There are plenty of builds much worse off than chrono is atm. I don't see any reason for complaining especially since it's still a viable build. > > > > why you bring it up anyway or any worse build . > > > > I'm not complaining that it's weak of less useful , i was saying mesmer mains were correct , 50% damage nerf did not fix problems of that build. it just threw that build out of meta . it was you complaining about how mesmer mains said 50% dmg nerf were bad . > > > > please , don't make it some self pity competition by saying : no , we got it worse . that wasn't the point > > The team winning the mAT on eu ran two chronomancers even after the nerfs. I would say it's out of the meta, mirage is just a stronger choice. And the team they fought in the finals ran three! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apharma.3741 Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said: > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said: > > > > @"musu.9205" said: > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > @"musu.9205" said: > > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > > > @"musu.9205" said: > > > > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > > > > It's funny watching the same people who defended chrono, defend mirage in the exact same way. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Chrono doesn't need damage nerfs. It's telegraphed." - Mesmer mains > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -receives 50% damage nerfs- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > lel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yeah after the nerf , the core problem remains , but you know chrono is now literally out of meta and pretty much dead , and few skills are back to trash tier . > > > > > > > > sure mesmer main were wrong lol > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chrono is fine. It's just not dominating like it was before. The build is still extremely tanky and does decent damage. > > > > > > > > > > > > tanky doesn't do anything , come on its not a support build . and did you read what i said , the problems of that build remain. its just far less useful . the 50% damage nerf fixed nothing .and stability overnerf or uncalled iwarlock nerf are just lol . mes gs and staff had all those bad nerfs for years by now . two weapon are carried by skill 2 . > > > > > > > > > > Druid isn't a support build either yet it has no damage, no utility, and no sustain. > > > > > > > > > > There are plenty of builds much worse off than chrono is atm. I don't see any reason for complaining especially since it's still a viable build. > > > > > > > > why you bring it up anyway or any worse build . > > > > > > > > I'm not complaining that it's weak of less useful , i was saying mesmer mains were correct , 50% damage nerf did not fix problems of that build. it just threw that build out of meta . it was you complaining about how mesmer mains said 50% dmg nerf were bad . > > > > > > > > please , don't make it some self pity competition by saying : no , we got it worse . that wasn't the point > > > > > > The team winning the mAT on eu ran two chronomancers even after the nerfs. I would say it's out of the meta, mirage is just a stronger choice. > > > > That same team then played the UGO for real money and dropped the chrono for scourge despite the scourge being one of the best mesmer players in the game now. Unless Frosty or anyone else from R55 is willing to comment why they dropped it then we have to assume they felt it wasn’t better than running a scourge FB combo. > > > > Likewise how many chronos are we seeing being played now by other teams? None, that’s ok because it’s a problem when chrono or mesmer is on every team but it’s not a problem when you see FB, scourge and either/or/both holo and spell breaker right? I’m not denying there’s problems with mirage (elusive mind, the sheer amount of confusion and torment, mirage thrust chase potential) however people are behaving like every other class isn’t very busted in areas too. > > > > The forums has their own agenda while being very biased and generally unhelpful, no wonder most top players avoid them. > > > > I’m still waiting for Mr Boyer to show me how mirage is banned from even half of the tournaments in the game considering it hasn’t been banned from daily or monthly AT, UGO or mist challengers and as far as I can tell not banned from the other NA PvP tournament (if it was banned it wasn’t reflected or updated on the forum post which is poor organisation to say the least) that happened yesterday that almost no-one covered or cared about in EU. > > No, they dropped a mesmer in mist Challenger. Not in Ugo. That was because Chronomancer was banned and you were not allowed to stack mirages. We just had an UGO for EU which I’m guessing you didn’t watch, here’s the link. https://twitch.tv/videos/268887609 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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