Please stop with the jump puzzles. I genuinely do not enjoy any of them.

[otto.5684]

> @"Dashingsteel.3410" said:

> Jumping puzzles are not optional if the are REQUIRED for any collection.

>

 

Collections are optional content...

 

On another note, I think JPs should not be in the daily rotation. There is nothing fun in doing a JP more than once.

[Ardid.7203]

> @"Turkeyspit.3965" said:

> It's not quite as cut and dry as that though, given that platforming isn't something you would expect to find in an MMO style game, just like you wouldn't expect to find to find extensive crafting, outfit customization, or combat rotations in a Super Mario platforming game. That isn't to say they can't both be present in the same title, but the frustration against JPs in GW2 is perfectly understandable.

 

GW2 is a GREAT game precisely because it is not typical . The platforming and action combat features are a big part of what make it fly high, outstanding over a sea of mediocre and repetitive "MMO style games". When will people stop trying to make GW2 like other generic games? If you are so frustrated because an aspect of a game doesn't fit with your prejudiced expectations, why do you keep playing it? Why don't play the many unsurprising, perfectly predictable and tired of cliché games there are available?

[Kal Spiro.9745]

Yeah, I don't particularly enjoy WvW, and since my opinion is clearly superior to all other opinions that could be had, we should probably get rid of that. Good argument, glad we had this chat.

[CrimeDog.5614]

I miss new JPs in PoF and LS4. I want a new one, even if it's not a difficult one. Just an extra feature out of the hundreds that this game has to offer that I truly enough and have missed for a while now.

[Ol Nik.2518]

As someone with carpal tunnel syndrome on both hands (and therefore impaired fine motor skills), I absolutely hate JPs. They are a true and very physical torture for me. Not to mention all the textures and camera issues that cause disorientation, motion sickness, nausea, and, frequently, migraines.

 

With that said, **I wish JPs were completely optional content for those who enjoy them**. As it is now, they are required for:

* mastery points (necessary for character progression and unlocking certain content such as legendaries crafting and fractals);

* map completion;

* collections;

* achievements.

 

One can argue that all these things are optional. And it is true. However, since so many things are connected to JPs game options become very limited very soon. I am a new player and I already feel how my disability negatively affects available to me content, since crafting and collecting are the most enjoyable parts of the game for me.

 

It would be fair to mention that mastery points can be obtained through LW (gemstore only for new players); map completion can be made much easier with mounts and gliding (requires HoT and PoF). So, it is not completely hopeless.

 

I wish there was some workaround for collections as well. It can be as grindy and tedious as farming gold to buy LW/HoT/PoF from the gem store. I do not mind that. I just want it to be there, so people with not so agile fingers could also enjoy the game to the fullest.

 

P.S. Please spare me from the 'ask for help' advice.

I am not shy to ask for help with JPs and mini versions of JPs. I am also known for offering gold for mesmer portal services. However, even with very kind, nice, and dedicated helpers JPs like 'Not so Secret' are impossible for me. Even after hours of trying I could not complete the goggles achievement required for a mastery point. And to be frank, hours do not do any good in my case. In 15 minutes my hands are in so much pain that I have to take a long break. And I always feel bad for mesmers that help me out: I start to miss portals, press wrong keys, and everybody becomes highly frustrated.

 

[Ryou.2398]

> @"Selminus.1490" said:

> Just left Tangled Depths. This is genuinely the first time in 20 years an MMO has turned me off with zone design. Getting HP for alts is an absolute nightmare in these places. Really, really not feeling these layouts.

>

> There's challenge and and innovation and then there's over engineering and these maps are without a doubt the latter.

 

I really think this depends on the build, class, and gear your using for hot two, but to be honest its much better in groups and hp trains.

[LucianDK.8615]

pretty sad when people beg for content to be removed because they cant cope with it. If you dont want to make the effort, then you dont need whats beyond it.

[Plautze.6290]

Despite hating JPs when I started playing GW2, I must admit that I like them right now (ofc, there are some exceptions like Not so Secret and those labyrinths in LS3 maps).

That being said, nobody is forced to do those JPs and even if it's part of dailies, there are always a few mesmers around who portal all the time.

[Steve The Cynic.3217]

Permit me to invoke Steve The Cynic's special "Jennur's Horde" rule. Jennur's Horde is a mission in the Nightfall campaign of GW1. Some members of the audience know about it, and I ask them to bear with me.

 

It is a step up in difficulty compared to the earlier missions, and an otherwise reasonably successful approach that you can apply to many of the earlier ones, charging through at a dead run, will absolutely fail, every time. You will be buried under a mountain of Margonites that are all 4 to 8 levels higher than your max-level character, and the guy you have to protect who's by the entrance will be killed.

 

So you have to learn to slow down, control what your heroes are doing, limit the number of enemies you engage, and pay close attention to the mechanics.

 

Once you learn those things enough to play Jennur's Horde successfully, your life elsewhere in GW1 will be much easier.

 

The "Jennur's Horde" rule, therefore is best formulated as "Something that you find difficult is an opportunity to learn to play better."

 

I'm not really very good at jumping, and since the Tyrian Mastery point for "Master Diver" requires you to dive from the top of the Not So Secret JP (not from the end of it, but even higher), that one sat incomplete in my list for ages. But I chipped at it now and then, and eventually my experience doing JPs for the daily had increased my confidence enough that I went back and engaged in a campaign to do it. I controlled the jumps more precisely by doing it on a Daredevil (Vault FTW!)(1), and all of a sudden, it just clicked into place and hop hop hop, there I was, on the wheel at the top, looking at the goggles lying there on the ground.

 

And I made the dive on the first try.

 

(1) It's not a total solution. There are jumps in that JP for which Vault is not vaulty enough, and it doesn't help at all in Portmatt's Lab.

[Donutdude.9582]

Whilst I can understand your frustration, you must also understand that there are many out there (I include myself in this) that enjoy jumping puzzles.

 

Simply avoid doing them and enjoy the rest of the content that this fabulous game has to offer.

 

All the best.

[Udolpho.1209]

Please, please, please keep jumping puzzles as dailies! Because I like them? NOOOOO.

 

I decided recently to try the Dive Master achievement. Got all but the last one at the end of Not So Secret. Gave up after a few hours of not even getting past the initial easy jumping parts... and at a time when NO ONE is doing this puzzle. No one. The only way I am ever getting this achieve is if Not So Secret becomes a daily (on a day I happen to log in) so that people will actually be there (hopefully a few kindly mesmers).

 

I don't personally know any mesmers good enough to do this, nor would I randomly ask someone to do something so horrifically unpleasant, just for me. But if the daily is up, I might get lucky. If you hate the hard jumping puzzles, dailies are ~~a great way~~ _the only_ way to (not) do them.

[Bloodstealer.5978]

> @"Udolpho.1209" said:

> Please, please, please keep jumping puzzles as dailies! Because I like them? NOOOOO.

>

> I decided recently to try the Dive Master achievement. Got all but the last one at the end of Not So Secret. Gave up after a few hours of not even getting past the initial easy jumping parts... and at a time when NO ONE is doing this puzzle. No one. The only way I am ever getting this achieve is if Not So Secret becomes a daily (on a day I happen to log in) so that people will actually be there (hopefully a few kindly mesmers).

>

> I don't personally know any mesmers good enough to do this, nor would I randomly ask someone to do something so horrifically unpleasant, just for me. But if the daily is up, I might get lucky. If you hate the hard jumping puzzles, dailies are ~~a great way~~ _the only_ way to (not) do them.

 

Hit me up in game... my mesmer is parked there currently and always willing to help players out on JP's they can't do.

Personally I like them they offer something away from the normal day to day stuff. Sure some cause me to wear my teeth down but that is half the fun, of course for some players JP's can be a step to far (No pun intended) ... so if I have some free time my mesmer is on hand. The only one I seem to have real issues with is clock tower (still after all this time :) )but I think when all the stars align, my connection has zero latency and mad king turns away for a second I will get it...one Halloween soon!!

[Underdark.3726]

I actualy always hoped they will put some exclusive rewards in the jp chests. Still hoping.

[brittitude.1983]

I completed all 20 of the collections to create the original precursers because I have never in almost 6 years been lucky enough to get one as a drop, even with maxed out luck. If there was one required JP for a collection, like coddler's cove or aetherblade, that I haven't been able to complete in a relatively short amount of time and without tears, I waited for the daily and had a friendly Mesmer port me to it. Without help from Mesmer ports or teleport to friend tokens, I don't think I would have completed them, so I agree with Bloodstealer.5978 and think that they need to be kept in as part of the daily rotation.

And, while I can't do all the JPs, I have been able to get to a point where I can complete most of them. I can't see a reason to use precious development resources to remove something that can be easily overcome with a friendly request for help. And JPs add dimension, challenge, and fun for a lot of players. I don't raid or pvp or run fractals or dungeons, but those are things that add content, challenge, diversity, and fun to the game for other players too.

Raging about things you don't like to try to get them removed is impractical. It will likely never happen. Best use of your time is to suggest things that you would like to see added or comment on how you didn't like how something was implemented and why. For example, mounts was a hot topic of discussion for years about whether or not to add them. And now they are added and they are awesome (I had my doubts and didn't really want them). The crazy levels of the HoT maps was a discussion that went on (After taking 15 alts through HoT HP trains, the maps are much easier to navigate, although I can still find myself lost in TD) and with PoF we have flatter, wider maps.

[zealex.9410]

> @"Klowdy.3126" said:

> > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > As far as I can remember, all jumping puzzles are optional in the game. If you don’t like them, you can simply skip them.

>

> That is true, but jumping puzzles are sometimes part of the daily quests. Not doing them finds you left out of those rewards.

 

The main reward fir dailies is doing 3 of them so you cab skip on jp and do some other.

 

Also no problem it rewarding loot, players can decide wether the reward is worth the effort.

[zealex.9410]

> @"Selminus.1490" said:

> Just left Tangled Depths. This is genuinely the first time in 20 years an MMO has turned me off with zone design. Getting HP for alts is an absolute nightmare in these places. Really, really not feeling these layouts.

>

> There's challenge and and innovation and then there's over engineering and these maps are without a doubt the latter.

 

Subjective. I think td and the hot maps in general are some of the best iv seen in an mmo.

[Dante.1763]

> @"zealex.9410" said:

> > @"Selminus.1490" said:

> > Just left Tangled Depths. This is genuinely the first time in 20 years an MMO has turned me off with zone design. Getting HP for alts is an absolute nightmare in these places. Really, really not feeling these layouts.

> >

> > There's challenge and and innovation and then there's over engineering and these maps are without a doubt the latter.

>

> Subjective. I think td and the hot maps in general are some of the best iv seen in an mmo.

 

I despise Tangled Depths, but i love the rest of the zones. But that map *lives* up to its name. Its a tangled multi layer map and as frustrating as it is, its not that hard to navigate..mostly. The in game map if it worked better, especially the mini map, would ease a lot of the problems ive had with that zone in particular, same with Draconis Mons.

[Ayrilana.1396]

> @"Dante.1763" said:

> > @"zealex.9410" said:

> > > @"Selminus.1490" said:

> > > Just left Tangled Depths. This is genuinely the first time in 20 years an MMO has turned me off with zone design. Getting HP for alts is an absolute nightmare in these places. Really, really not feeling these layouts.

> > >

> > > There's challenge and and innovation and then there's over engineering and these maps are without a doubt the latter.

> >

> > Subjective. I think td and the hot maps in general are some of the best iv seen in an mmo.

>

> I despise Tangled Depths, but i love the rest of the zones. But that map *lives* up to its name. Its a tangled multi layer map and as frustrating as it is, its not that hard to navigate..mostly. The in game map if it worked better, especially the mini map, would ease a lot of the problems ive had with that zone in particular, same with Draconis Mons.

 

The map does work fairly well. It’s just that most people are used to flat maps so don’t know how to use it beyond that.

[Dante.1763]

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > @"Dante.1763" said:

> > > @"zealex.9410" said:

> > > > @"Selminus.1490" said:

> > > > Just left Tangled Depths. This is genuinely the first time in 20 years an MMO has turned me off with zone design. Getting HP for alts is an absolute nightmare in these places. Really, really not feeling these layouts.

> > > >

> > > > There's challenge and and innovation and then there's over engineering and these maps are without a doubt the latter.

> > >

> > > Subjective. I think td and the hot maps in general are some of the best iv seen in an mmo.

> >

> > I despise Tangled Depths, but i love the rest of the zones. But that map *lives* up to its name. Its a tangled multi layer map and as frustrating as it is, its not that hard to navigate..mostly. The in game map if it worked better, especially the mini map, would ease a lot of the problems ive had with that zone in particular, same with Draconis Mons.

>

> The map does work fairly well. It’s just that most people are used to flat maps so don’t know how to use it beyond that.

 

It works..."okay" is how id describe. The mini map is god awful, and its impossible to enlarge it to how big id want it to be so i could zoom in on things, on top of that, it snaps back to you the moment you start moving which is just irritating when finding the right path. The main map is no better either, the different "layers" are still visible on the map and make it confusing to read.

[Ayrilana.1396]

> @"Dante.1763" said:

> > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > @"Dante.1763" said:

> > > > @"zealex.9410" said:

> > > > > @"Selminus.1490" said:

> > > > > Just left Tangled Depths. This is genuinely the first time in 20 years an MMO has turned me off with zone design. Getting HP for alts is an absolute nightmare in these places. Really, really not feeling these layouts.

> > > > >

> > > > > There's challenge and and innovation and then there's over engineering and these maps are without a doubt the latter.

> > > >

> > > > Subjective. I think td and the hot maps in general are some of the best iv seen in an mmo.

> > >

> > > I despise Tangled Depths, but i love the rest of the zones. But that map *lives* up to its name. Its a tangled multi layer map and as frustrating as it is, its not that hard to navigate..mostly. The in game map if it worked better, especially the mini map, would ease a lot of the problems ive had with that zone in particular, same with Draconis Mons.

> >

> > The map does work fairly well. It’s just that most people are used to flat maps so don’t know how to use it beyond that.

>

> It works..."okay" is how id describe. The mini map is god awful, and its impossible to enlarge it to how big id want it to be so i could zoom in on things, on top of that, it snaps back to you the moment you start moving which is just irritating when finding the right path. The main map is no better either, the different "layers" are still visible on the map and make it confusing to read.

 

Unfortunately there really isn’t any better way to represent a 3D map in 2D.

[Dante.1763]

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > @"Dante.1763" said:

> > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > > @"Dante.1763" said:

> > > > > @"zealex.9410" said:

> > > > > > @"Selminus.1490" said:

> > > > > > Just left Tangled Depths. This is genuinely the first time in 20 years an MMO has turned me off with zone design. Getting HP for alts is an absolute nightmare in these places. Really, really not feeling these layouts.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > There's challenge and and innovation and then there's over engineering and these maps are without a doubt the latter.

> > > > >

> > > > > Subjective. I think td and the hot maps in general are some of the best iv seen in an mmo.

> > > >

> > > > I despise Tangled Depths, but i love the rest of the zones. But that map *lives* up to its name. Its a tangled multi layer map and as frustrating as it is, its not that hard to navigate..mostly. The in game map if it worked better, especially the mini map, would ease a lot of the problems ive had with that zone in particular, same with Draconis Mons.

> > >

> > > The map does work fairly well. It’s just that most people are used to flat maps so don’t know how to use it beyond that.

> >

> > It works..."okay" is how id describe. The mini map is god awful, and its impossible to enlarge it to how big id want it to be so i could zoom in on things, on top of that, it snaps back to you the moment you start moving which is just irritating when finding the right path. The main map is no better either, the different "layers" are still visible on the map and make it confusing to read.

>

> Unfortunately there really isn’t any better way to represent a 3D map in 2D.

 

Sure there is. They could have an option on the map that completely hides the above layers so they arent visible at all.

[Ayrilana.1396]

> @"Dante.1763" said:

> > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > @"Dante.1763" said:

> > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > > > @"Dante.1763" said:

> > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said:

> > > > > > > @"Selminus.1490" said:

> > > > > > > Just left Tangled Depths. This is genuinely the first time in 20 years an MMO has turned me off with zone design. Getting HP for alts is an absolute nightmare in these places. Really, really not feeling these layouts.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > There's challenge and and innovation and then there's over engineering and these maps are without a doubt the latter.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Subjective. I think td and the hot maps in general are some of the best iv seen in an mmo.

> > > > >

> > > > > I despise Tangled Depths, but i love the rest of the zones. But that map *lives* up to its name. Its a tangled multi layer map and as frustrating as it is, its not that hard to navigate..mostly. The in game map if it worked better, especially the mini map, would ease a lot of the problems ive had with that zone in particular, same with Draconis Mons.

> > > >

> > > > The map does work fairly well. It’s just that most people are used to flat maps so don’t know how to use it beyond that.

> > >

> > > It works..."okay" is how id describe. The mini map is god awful, and its impossible to enlarge it to how big id want it to be so i could zoom in on things, on top of that, it snaps back to you the moment you start moving which is just irritating when finding the right path. The main map is no better either, the different "layers" are still visible on the map and make it confusing to read.

> >

> > Unfortunately there really isn’t any better way to represent a 3D map in 2D.

>

> Sure there is. They could have an option on the map that completely hides the above layers so they arent visible at all.

 

They are hidden to an extent. Completely removing them would make things worse.

[Dante.1763]

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > @"Dante.1763" said:

> > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > > @"Dante.1763" said:

> > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > > > > @"Dante.1763" said:

> > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Selminus.1490" said:

> > > > > > > > Just left Tangled Depths. This is genuinely the first time in 20 years an MMO has turned me off with zone design. Getting HP for alts is an absolute nightmare in these places. Really, really not feeling these layouts.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > There's challenge and and innovation and then there's over engineering and these maps are without a doubt the latter.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Subjective. I think td and the hot maps in general are some of the best iv seen in an mmo.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I despise Tangled Depths, but i love the rest of the zones. But that map *lives* up to its name. Its a tangled multi layer map and as frustrating as it is, its not that hard to navigate..mostly. The in game map if it worked better, especially the mini map, would ease a lot of the problems ive had with that zone in particular, same with Draconis Mons.

> > > > >

> > > > > The map does work fairly well. It’s just that most people are used to flat maps so don’t know how to use it beyond that.

> > > >

> > > > It works..."okay" is how id describe. The mini map is god awful, and its impossible to enlarge it to how big id want it to be so i could zoom in on things, on top of that, it snaps back to you the moment you start moving which is just irritating when finding the right path. The main map is no better either, the different "layers" are still visible on the map and make it confusing to read.

> > >

> > > Unfortunately there really isn’t any better way to represent a 3D map in 2D.

> >

> > Sure there is. They could have an option on the map that completely hides the above layers so they arent visible at all.

>

> They are hidden to an extent. Completely removing them would make things worse.

 

Didnt say remove them, i said an option to make them invisible, much like you can with hiding the navigation points(banks and such) on those maps at least for me, it would be helpful because it would only show the layer you would be on, and hide everything above or below you.

[Ayrilana.1396]

> @"Dante.1763" said:

> > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > @"Dante.1763" said:

> > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > > > @"Dante.1763" said:

> > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > > > > > @"Dante.1763" said:

> > > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"Selminus.1490" said:

> > > > > > > > > Just left Tangled Depths. This is genuinely the first time in 20 years an MMO has turned me off with zone design. Getting HP for alts is an absolute nightmare in these places. Really, really not feeling these layouts.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > There's challenge and and innovation and then there's over engineering and these maps are without a doubt the latter.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Subjective. I think td and the hot maps in general are some of the best iv seen in an mmo.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I despise Tangled Depths, but i love the rest of the zones. But that map *lives* up to its name. Its a tangled multi layer map and as frustrating as it is, its not that hard to navigate..mostly. The in game map if it worked better, especially the mini map, would ease a lot of the problems ive had with that zone in particular, same with Draconis Mons.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The map does work fairly well. It’s just that most people are used to flat maps so don’t know how to use it beyond that.

> > > > >

> > > > > It works..."okay" is how id describe. The mini map is god awful, and its impossible to enlarge it to how big id want it to be so i could zoom in on things, on top of that, it snaps back to you the moment you start moving which is just irritating when finding the right path. The main map is no better either, the different "layers" are still visible on the map and make it confusing to read.

> > > >

> > > > Unfortunately there really isn’t any better way to represent a 3D map in 2D.

> > >

> > > Sure there is. They could have an option on the map that completely hides the above layers so they arent visible at all.

> >

> > They are hidden to an extent. Completely removing them would make things worse.

>

> Didnt say remove them, i said an option to make them invisible, much like you can with hiding the navigation points(banks and such) on those maps at least for me, it would be helpful because it would only show the layer you would be on, and hide everything above or below you.

 

Same thing; it’s removed from sight. Doing exactly what you want would remove context and make matters worse. The OP would have even more reasons to complain about in their post.

 

Mock up an example of what you’d like to see and then you’d see what I mean.

[Menadena.7482]

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> As far as I can remember, all jumping puzzles are optional in the game. If you don’t like them, you can simply skip them.

 

That was my attitude as well, I only noticed them when gliding around, but now they are in almost every round of dailies. If you are only doing PVE ones then the other 3 things better be something you can do in a short amount of time.