Let's discuss Elementalist class balance in GW2 (WVW)

[DarkSork.8637]

> @"Sephylon.4938" said:

> Makes sense, all the responses to you seem to be in a pve perspective, not a wvw one. You'll have to be more soecific next time, or post this in the wvw section.

 

Yes you're right (about topic) not sure what is wrong with the build.

[Acheron.4731]

everything he has said from a wvw perspective (without other classes contributing) is absolutely correct

There is not an appropriate risk-reward for ele roaming as you see with many other classes.

Fresh-air weaver was close b4 arcane changes but you still had less room for error.

 

[Sephylon.4938]

> @"DarkSork.8637" said:

> > @"Sephylon.4938" said:

> > Makes sense, all the responses to you seem to be in a pve perspective, not a wvw one. You'll have to be more soecific next time, or post this in the wvw section.

>

> Yes you're right (about topic) not sure what is wrong with the build.

 

It's a back line zerg build that you're using as a solo roamer. It expects 49 other people to act as a meat shield for you while giving you boons, barriers, and healing. It also expects to fight 50+/- that you can rain fiery death on.

[DarkSork.8637]

> @"Sephylon.4938" said:

> > @"DarkSork.8637" said:

> > > @"Sephylon.4938" said:

> > > Makes sense, all the responses to you seem to be in a pve perspective, not a wvw one. You'll have to be more soecific next time, or post this in the wvw section.

> >

> > Yes you're right (about topic) not sure what is wrong with the build.

>

> It's a back line zerg build that you're using as a solo roamer. It expects 49 other people to act as a meat shield for you while giving you boons, barriers, and healing.

 

Yes, that's how I mostly play. I tried to use vitality amulets and soldier exotic armor for roaming which gives vitality again (15K HP without food) but the difference was that I may die in 2 hits, not 1, while considerably less damage.

[Sephylon.4938]

try this build

https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Weaver_-_Celestial_Roamer

also check out

[Solori.6025]

> @"Sephylon.4938" said:

> Makes sense, all the responses to you seem to be in a pve perspective, not a wvw one. You'll have to be more specific next time, or post this in the wvw section.

>

> Edit

> Saw youe build, it's highly pve oriented. At best that's suited as a backliner at a zerg in wvw. Not meant for solo roaming.

 

This...all of this.

From a WvW perspective if you are roaming with staff and that build you may as well take your hands off the keyboard. Now it makes sense.

Step one..get marauder gear.

Step two.. stop roaming with staff...

Staff is a hard weapon to roam on. You have to play like a pro vs certain classes to even stand a chance

[Solori.6025]

When I get home I can link the marauder and marshal builds me and some guildies use to roam. I'm not sure if celestial ele or tempest is still a thing, would have to ask the class mains about that.

[Ardid.7203]

> @"Voltekka.2375" said:

> > @"Ardid.7203" said:

> > > @"HnRkLnXqZ.1870" said:

> > > You can also try another class. The necromancer is pretty newbie-friendly. Rangers are nice for long-range combat and allow you to learn the mechanics of the game step by step. Even the warrior-classes offer some mage-aspects. Of all the classes you can choose, I would recommend you to NOT pick the engineer. As I said above it is similar in controls, but a lot worse when it comes to efficiency.

> > On the contrary, I beg the OP to try to play Engie just a short time. **Compare Holo with DPS Ele**. Try to do anything in PvE with a Scrapper. PLEASE, play a Condi Engie just a couple of hours.

> > Then maybe we could talk about balance.

>

> Holo has small dps? Since when? I agree on scrapper and condi engi, tho... Dead specs...

 

I never said Holo had DPS problems. I only said to compare DPS Holo and DPS Ele, how different they work: IMO in the practice is easier to see Ele is a far more flexible profession, even for pure DPS. Holo is a one trick pony (Burst and run), and that is speaking of the only viable build Engie has for competitive modes!

[DarkSork.8637]

> @"Sephylon.4938" said:

> try this build

> https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Weaver_-_Celestial_Roamer

> also check out

>

 

Yeah I saw people doing this. What I can't get, with one hand I can reach WASD and maybe numbers 1-6, for others I need to leave mouse or click skill with mouse which is extremely hard while you need to use the mouse to change direction.

[Sephylon.4938]

> @"DarkSork.8637" said:

> > @"Sephylon.4938" said:

> > try this build

> > https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Weaver_-_Celestial_Roamer

> > also check out

> >

>

> Yeah I saw people doing this. What I can't get, with one hand I can reach WASD and maybe numbers 1-6, for others I need to leave mouse or click skill with mouse which is extremely hard while you need to use the mouse to change direction.

 

rebind your 6-0

[DarkSork.8637]

> @"Sephylon.4938" said:

> rebind your 6-0

 

I know, I guess it requires time to mechanically train your hand with all the keys. I think maybe Attunements -> QERT and 6 -> F and 7-0 -> CVB. Many times I died just unable to reach teleport or other skill while running.

 

[lLobo.7960]

Hi new player!

 

Seems you already got a few tips and examples of how elementalist can be played in WvW.

 

One thing that a lot of people dont understand is that Elementalist (and weaver) is not the highest dps of the game... it has the **highest dps potential**

Meaning to get that you will have do be very vulnerable (and be very good with your rotations)...

 

In WvW that potential is really hard to reach, as your opponent will be moving around and defending itself.

If you play on a zerg you can trust (you have voice coms, you are in a group that provides stability and defense, etc) you can really go all out dps with just a few re-positioning skills (telports, dodges, mist form). You also need to practice with your zerg on when and how to unleash your full burst, and learn how to stay away of the enemy burst.

 

If you play solo, or in small groups, A.K.A roaming/havoc, you just can't go all out dmg as others will be able to kill you too quick if you don't have defense.

Weaver again provides some good options, with good evades (both on sword and utility), barrier and some stability. But yes, to be able to avoid dmg you will also do less dmg. But as you have seen on the videos, if you can use your rotation to build up might stacks and time your burst right (with dagger offhand) you can get some nice high numbers...

 

Elementalist is a very versatile class, and its not easy to master, but you can have lots of fun with it, be it as a backline mage doing big dmg, or as a melee spell-weilding martial artist (dagger or word) that is very mobile and can sustain a fight and build up to big bursts

 

[ErgoProxy.9074]

Holy fack lol, i thought i wouldnt see it but i did. People complaining about a class not doing damage when it is one of the highest tier pve classes in the game. Fack all of you tbh.

 

Buff reaper.

[DarkSork.8637]

> @"ErgoProxy.9074" said:

> Holy kitten lol, i thought i wouldnt see it but i did. People complaining about a class not doing damage when it is one of the highest tier pve classes in the game. kitten all of you tbh.

>

> Buff reaper.

It's not just about potential dps. It's about trade off between dps and survivability. You can't use same tactics in pvp or wvw, you'll die pathetically, for having at best 18K hp with the best items, lowest defense and not having best dps in game is plain bad design. That's why I said it's not good enough for anything in particular because you don't need just DPS or just Defence or just HP to be able to play in wvw or pvp, you need a good balance between them where you encounter real people not stupid static mobs and if you try to get that balance, ele will be far from high dps.

 

Think of it as a bar on which you have dps, survivability and difficulty to master, if difficulty is high, you should get boon in dps or survivability , if survivability is low and difficulty is high, you should get huge dps boon for that. I don't see that in current class implementation, there seems to be more rewarding classes in this regard, yeah ele is fun to play with, it's like you always learn but that shouldn't be considered as an advantage on that bar. I feel like in pve would be fair to have dps even higher and in pvp/wvw a little bit more vitality, or weapon swap enabled.

 

[Ganathar.4956]

Ele is pretty decent for large scale because you can kill other players from range and you have zone denial. Yeah, ele is pretty undertuned in both roaming and PvP at the moment and it needs buffs. However, adding a weapon swap is a terrible idea. There are plenty of good ideas for elementalist. I suggest you play it more and learn the intricacies of the class, as well as read the ideas of more experienced players in other threads. If you think that the class is currently not worth the effort, then I can't tell you anything except to reroll, at least until Anet fixes the problem.

[DarkSork.8637]

> @"Solori.6025" said:

> When I get home I can link the marauder and marshal builds me and some guildies use to roam. I'm not sure if celestial ele or tempest is still a thing, would have to ask the class mains about that.

 

Waiting for your builds :)

 

OFF TOPIC: Please don't forget to live in real life too because you have only one shoot in life, there is no respawning, revival, there are things you can't repair and time lost is lost forever, you are like a burning candle. I limit my time to 2 hours per day max, I prefer to level up in real life.

[supreme.3602]

Would be nice if we could change attunements while gliding. It doesn't seem right that we can't even do that, whereas other classes are able to weapon swap with ease.

[Solori.6025]

> @"DarkSork.8637" said:

> > @"Solori.6025" said:

> > When I get home I can link the marauder and marshal builds me and some guildies use to roam. I'm not sure if celestial ele or tempest is still a thing, would have to ask the class mains about that.

>

> Waiting for your builds :)

>

> OFF TOPIC: Please don't forget to live in real life too because you have only one shoot in life, there is no respawning, revival, there are things you can't repair and time lost is lost forever, you are like a burning candle. I limit my time to 2 hours per day max, I prefer to level up in real life.

 

Sorry for the delay,

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQJAsYncMA94idOAG5CM5iFTA7+M3mnzFngSwVkIBEAaAA-j1RBQBaV9nyo0DAnAAN8AAwjegGpEEa7PQKgqUGB-w

 

This is the build I use for roaming ( when I roamed on ele, am now roaming on Rev cause it's harder)

You won't see giant huge numbers from this build, but a combination of condies and might stacking, will give you plenty of threatening killing power. The extra healing power will give you plenty of sustainability. Sword has very good healing and evasion. It should be easy to go back to 100% health with this build. I left the amulet slot open you can choose between more marshals, celestial, or even zerker if you want.

 

And the marauder build is basically the fresh air scepter/ focus build. With a mix of zerk trinkets and marauder gear. It hits like a truck and can 100-0 someone in a second

[Wizardauz.3761]

> @"DarkSork.8637" said:

> > @"Sephylon.4938" said:

> > rebind your 6-0

>

> I know, I guess it requires time to mechanically train your hand with all the keys. I think maybe Attunements -> QERT and 6 -> F and 7-0 -> CVB. Many times I died just unable to reach teleport or other skill while running.

>

 

Rebind Q, E, R, T, S, Z, X, C.

 

T should be the farthest key you "reach for".

 

If you still need skills binded (I.E. Profession Skills for Attunement Swaping) Do (SHIFT+ 1), (SHIFT + 2), etc.

[TheQuickFox.3826]

Elementalists [base health](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Health#Mechanics "base health") is way too low in my opinion. I see no reason why Ellies have only 1,645 , Mesmers have 5,922 and Necromancers have 9,212. All are low armor caster classes. Even with Celestial stats Ellies tend to get oneshot in WvW by high-damage professions.

[MyPuppy.8970]

> @"TheQuickFox.3826" said:

> Elementalists [base health](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Health#Mechanics "base health") is way too low in my opinion. I see no reason why Ellies have only 1,645 , Mesmers have 5,922 and Necromancers have 9,212. All are low armor caster classes. Even with Celestial stats Ellies tend to get oneshot in WvW by high-damage professions.

 

Because in 2012 eles had better sustain. Now mid-high hp classes also have better sustain. I think ele problem is it is stil stuck in 2012.

[DarkSork.8637]

> @"MyPuppy.8970" said:

> > @"TheQuickFox.3826" said:

> > Elementalists [base health](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Health#Mechanics "base health") is way too low in my opinion. I see no reason why Ellies have only 1,645 , Mesmers have 5,922 and Necromancers have 9,212. All are low armor caster classes. Even with Celestial stats Ellies tend to get oneshot in WvW by high-damage professions.

>

> Because in 2012 eles had better sustain. Now mid-high hp classes also have better sustain. I think ele problem is it is stil stuck in 2012.

 

Yeah you are right. There is a problem. You need to spend a lot of time working and remembering rotations for staff, sword and dagger which adds much complexity and being squishy doesn't help.

 

On the other hand having high end items makes a difference, for weaver you need to have 50% crit chance and 200% crit damage, you don't need to have power that high. Also having vitality on all set 6/6 helps with survivability, s/d weaver have potential in pvp/wvw but is very hard to play, you need to constantly switch between attunements and generate boons on the fly. Water/ arcane/ weaver is the way too go. Of course that makes you vulnerable to lags and small mistake in rotation may cost your life but this is situation at the moment.

 

I still think that weapon swap may be a thing because each weapon have it's fixed range and this will open the way for more flexibility and tactics for Ele. You'll be forced to switch not only attunements but weapons too, which will greatly increase chances to run/evade and heal. Another solution beside improving starting stats for the class will be to generate more barrier based on combos or some defensive boost with current skills/ new skills.

 

P.S. If anyone have doubts that weaver is the hardest spec to play in entire game and that in order to be useful in wvw/pvp you need to play him, which vast majority of players will be decent at best with him, then you haven't played it enough. If you have no life or you're skipping school a lot, yes maybe you are able to remember all the rotations and improving your dexterity to be crazy, then you will see few no life badass weavers doing good, but as far as I know good dexterity in games is the hardest thing to achieve as it depends on how much your hand muscles are trained and how fast you can react and that you don't panic in combat. This makes ele suitable only for hardcore no life players which probably may play Mozart backwards without much struggle. I know ele has good dps potential but as I proved, it's not worth it for casual players like me and even for majority of GW2 players.

 

[Waisenpai.6028]

(NORTH AMERICA WvW Tier 1 not EU different play style) This is a wvw thread not pve guys, hit boxes really. Have you tried to staff 1v1 or 1v3 lol. Have you even played sword Weaver vs Mirage or Holo. Half of the pve comments needs to go. And Staff marauder is old zerg build you're just backline dandruff. Unless your zerg is greater than your opponents and you never have to overlap zergs gg. But that's not the case in T1 you get 2-3 Green blobs vs 2 blue blobs vs 3 Red Blobs( BG). UM BG you are supposed to be Green not JQ. I guess people are on vacation. I mean guys go play a holo, Core warrior/SB , Mirage, even a cele Scourage you feel like kitten on roids. Weaver has survivability but you dagger attacks are weak damage and basic conditions. Sword damage is stationary and spammy with limited range, low condions damage/ variety. Pray your sword 2 lands is quite sad. In pvp atleast you have a ring in wvw your opponents won't let stand there and let you land a 1 second telegraphic low damage leap attack.

 

So Please buff main hand sword and daggers. Put a -25% damage environmental factor for ele in raids if you are so worried. It's like the environmental restrictions in Factions 12 man dungeons.

[supreme.3602]

Buff our traits and staff pls. That's all I want.

[Retsuko.2035]

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFUQFAWnUMAdOgVOA+4C8RgFKA7eR/or0EtgTQMQYOGAKAA-j1RBQBZU53+2fAAPAgEq+jGuAAmUJY+0BQKgyVGB-w

Staff weaver build I often use in WvW. It has alright damage, high HP to give me time to react and all utility skills are meant to keep me alive. Also, the traits are partly into DPS and partly into condition cleanse.

 

You should invest into ascended trinkets first once you figured out a viable build.