6 Years of worthlessness in wvw as this class is basically barred from enjoying the gamemode

[Arheundel.6451]

**STOP RIGHT THERE** Before you even start...I am bored to death with roaming.....because there is no roaming anymore in this game, if you try to roam these days you'll just spend hours and hours running from full mesmer/thief/holosmith ganking teams ...YES teams because roaming in GW2 means running in group of 5-6 stealth/CC/burst specs suited to chase a single poor soul for half map only to kill him and dump siege on his body while laughing/dancing.

 

I believe here in T1 EU you find a willing and honour bound duellist , once every 2-3 weeks during odd hours while rest of the time is just a complete waste of bloody time as you basically achieve nothing , you can't even attempt to cap a single camp without being forced to face 3-4 scourges "defending" it

 

So Dear Anet what is left for this class?

-Not only roaming remains mostly unrewarding....now it's not even fun anymore

-This class still lack a zerg build,because longbow sucks outside single target and we're talking about the archer archetype....which was supposed to be a main pillar of every army....

[Dadnir.5038]

In this 6 years, the ranger have had some great moment in WvW. Maybe not in zerg but still some good time. Like in the first year before they nerfed pet into oblivion, when you could send them atop the wall and 2 shot players on it. Or the trap build that was devastating and granted stealth on top of that. Or even druid having fun being virtually unkillable... Plus I don't think the ship war wasn't/isn't friendly for rangers.

[intox.6347]

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> In this 6 years, the ranger have had some great moment in WvW. Maybe not in zerg but still some good time. Like in the first year before they nerfed pet into oblivion, when you could send them atop the wall and 2 shot players on it. Or the trap build that was devastating and granted stealth on top of that. Or even druid having fun being virtually unkillable... Plus I don't think the ship war wasn't/isn't friendly for rangers.

 

Doesnt matter how goes builds for roaming or some weird variants, he was never good in zerg play .... yeah few heroes come and say something "its not that bad..." ofc if you have room in squad... but once is full sq vs full sq ... you dont have room for any of ranger variants.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

The single biggest problem Ranger has is that it has no viable Weapon for zerg fight.

Rev = Hammer

Ele = Staff

Nec = Staff

Guard = Staff

 

Warrior and Mesmer also have no viable Zerg Weapon but they have crazy strong utility skills.

Something Ranger also lacks.

 

Before Ranger can be good at zerging , one of the 2 has to change.

[EnderzShadow.2506]

> @"DanAlcedo.3281" said:

> The single biggest problem Ranger has is that it has no viable Weapon for zerg fight.

> Rev = Hammer

> Ele = Staff

> Nec = Staff

> Guard = Staff

>

> Warrior and Mesmer also have no viable Zerg Weapon but they have crazy strong utility skills.

> Something Ranger also lacks.

>

> Before Ranger can be good at zerging , one of the 2 has to change.

 

Despite Anets best intentions, players in mmos will mold their own requirements and find a 'best spec, class, team for any content.

People will get left behind and left out.

Anet was really hitting this point hard before GW2 released, I remember all the mmorpg.com/forum discussions.

 

Dont mind me, just a side note from the past...

 

 

@"Arheundel.6451" Stop banging your head against the wall. The choice is simple, play another class that DOES fit the WvW meta.

 

 

[brittitude.1983]

I know you might not want to hear this, but I play Ranger, now Soulbeast, every week for hours in WvW. I join zergs, roam alone or with others. I run SB or LB with axe/torch. I have fun and I rarely die. I am NA and not T1, so I can't _really _understand your plight.

 

But since you are EU T1 and if you want to stay there, maybe try out scourge, they seem to do well on any server. Or, if it really, really bothers you, you have the option to changes servers, maybe a lower server gives you more freedom to play how you want to play. I think your best option though is to be patient and hope things get better when alliances are added because I can't imagine a time when ranger would be the go to class or even _a_ go to class, no matter how many people come to the forums asking for it to change (which, for the record, I would really love to see happen).

[Durzlla.6295]

I mean, honestly I don’t understand your complaint, Ranger has been hated in Zerg comps forever (even though LB is very good at sniping out the other zergs squishies) yet that has never stopped me, nor other Rangers from running with the Zerg, it’s not like they can exactly STOP you from zeroing with them anyway. What are they gonna do? Waypoint away? There’s like 4 waypoints on the map and it’s not like a Zerg can exactly outrun you as a ranger. If you want to run with a Zerg you can do so with or without their permission.

 

Last I checked though Soulbeast was pretty damn good for WvW from Dolyak stance share alone, but who knows I don’t really follow the WvW meta.

[Soilder.3607]

So you mean to tell me you've been playing this game for six years and... have yet to make another profession for zerging? If it's that important to you, create a guardian, or an ele, or a revenant, necro, warrior etc.

 

 

[Lord Trejgon.2809]

> @"DanAlcedo.3281" said:

> The single biggest problem Ranger has is that it has no viable Weapon for zerg fight.

> Rev = Hammer

> Ele = Staff

> Nec = Staff

> Guard = Staff

>

> Warrior and Mesmer also have no viable Zerg Weapon but they have crazy strong utility skills.

> Something Ranger also lacks.

>

> Before Ranger can be good at zerging , one of the 2 has to change.

 

GS for awesome evade uptime ;)

 

I did have two attempts at making zerg ranger and both of them were GS based. one in old days of preHoT (tanky gear, non-throwable traps and GS for zerg-tier survi and unblockable circles during melee rushes , was during dunker-meta) and other was stance-sharing soulbeast, altho only the first one I had ability to seriously playtest and it performed up to assumed predictions :) (never completed the build for testing on soulbeast, was too preoccupied at the time with spellbreaker buildcrafting, and later kinda forgot/lost interest in that soulbeast)

 

but then frankly - considering range of stancesharing - if this trait was not made with wvw zerging in mind then I have no idea what it was meant for.

 

as for roaming can't really relate, it kinda sounds overblown to me, but then highest matchup our server had in past few weeks was t2, so dunno maybe t1's are overly stacked and actually can afford splitting THAT much most of the time...

[DanAlcedo.3281]

> @"Lord Trejgon.2809" said:

> > @"DanAlcedo.3281" said:

> > The single biggest problem Ranger has is that it has no viable Weapon for zerg fight.

> > Rev = Hammer

> > Ele = Staff

> > Nec = Staff

> > Guard = Staff

> >

> > Warrior and Mesmer also have no viable Zerg Weapon but they have crazy strong utility skills.

> > Something Ranger also lacks.

> >

> > Before Ranger can be good at zerging , one of the 2 has to change.

>

> GS for awesome evade uptime ;)

>

> I did have two attempts at making zerg ranger and both of them were GS based. one in old days of preHoT (tanky gear, non-throwable traps and GS for zerg-tier survi and unblockable circles during melee rushes , was during dunker-meta) and other was stance-sharing soulbeast, altho only the first one I had ability to seriously playtest and it performed up to assumed predictions :) (never completed the build for testing on soulbeast, was too preoccupied at the time with spellbreaker buildcrafting, and later kinda forgot/lost interest in that soulbeast)

>

> but then frankly - considering range of stancesharing - if this trait was not made with wvw zerging in mind then I have no idea what it was meant for.

>

> as for roaming can't really relate, it kinda sounds overblown to me, but then highest matchup our server had in past few weeks was t2, so dunno maybe t1's are overly stacked and actually can afford splitting THAT much most of the time...

 

I have to say , with the no downstate rule.

I LOVE having some Soulbeast in my squad.

 

They can now legit kill slacker almost instantly with longbow.

 

Before, with downstate, they could be rezzed to fast.

 

If they remove downstate from wvw forever , then (atleast) i would welcome ranger in the meta family.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[starlinvf.1358]

> @"DanAlcedo.3281" said:

> > @"Lord Trejgon.2809" said:

> > > @"DanAlcedo.3281" said:

> > > The single biggest problem Ranger has is that it has no viable Weapon for zerg fight.

> > > Rev = Hammer

> > > Ele = Staff

> > > Nec = Staff

> > > Guard = Staff

> > >

> > > Warrior and Mesmer also have no viable Zerg Weapon but they have crazy strong utility skills.

> > > Something Ranger also lacks.

> > >

> > > Before Ranger can be good at zerging , one of the 2 has to change.

> >

> > GS for awesome evade uptime ;)

> >

> > I did have two attempts at making zerg ranger and both of them were GS based. one in old days of preHoT (tanky gear, non-throwable traps and GS for zerg-tier survi and unblockable circles during melee rushes , was during dunker-meta) and other was stance-sharing soulbeast, altho only the first one I had ability to seriously playtest and it performed up to assumed predictions :) (never completed the build for testing on soulbeast, was too preoccupied at the time with spellbreaker buildcrafting, and later kinda forgot/lost interest in that soulbeast)

> >

> > but then frankly - considering range of stancesharing - if this trait was not made with wvw zerging in mind then I have no idea what it was meant for.

> >

> > as for roaming can't really relate, it kinda sounds overblown to me, but then highest matchup our server had in past few weeks was t2, so dunno maybe t1's are overly stacked and actually can afford splitting THAT much most of the time...

>

> I have to say , with the no downstate rule.

> I LOVE having some Soulbeast in my squad.

>

> They can now legit kill slacker almost instantly with longbow.

>

> Before, with downstate, they could be rezzed to fast.

>

> If they remove downstate from wvw forever , then (atleast) i would welcome ranger in the meta family.

>

 

 

The glory days of the Pirateship meta

[Artaz.3819]

> @"DanAlcedo.3281" said:

> The single biggest problem Ranger has is that it has no viable Weapon for zerg fight.

> Rev = Hammer

> Ele = Staff

> Nec = Staff

> Guard = Staff

>

> Warrior and Mesmer also have no viable Zerg Weapon but they have crazy strong utility skills.

> Something Ranger also lacks.

>

> Before Ranger can be good at zerging , one of the 2 has to change.

 

Ranger (Druid) = Staff

... the DPS on auto is garbage but good for tagging, the healing is meh, the soft CC/support wall is meh (but when you add the versatility all together it is actually pretty good) especially with Celestial Avatar

The _problem_ is you need to play Druid.

 

Soulbeast is pretty good with Unstoppable Union setup in spike/no down mode but that is not going to last.

[Mil.3562]

Yesterday in WvW, there was this 'small time' commander commenting that he is going back to his other character which is in another server where there are no ' sheetty ' ranger class in the zerg.

 

I cannot understand the hate for rangers in WvW. To me, rangers may not be meta in WvW but are they really that bad? Like many have commented here, Soulbeast has her share of kills and boon sharing with the zerg, we are not totally useless in zerg fight right?

 

I used to main heal/support druid in WvW and I love my ranger in open world pve and roaming. But, recently ANet nerfed heals in CA so much that i switched to Tempest now.

 

I will convert my support druid to dps soulbeast and use her solely for PVE since she is treated like an outcast in WvW zerg ;_;

[Eleazar.9478]

Ranger is a gdamn monster this event I wish they would keep it

[Deax.1572]

Im in EU T1 was well, i roam with my Soulbeast. Every now and then i'll tag along with zergs, but rarely join them as i'll wonder off anyway when i'll see a camp being contested or red dots near a sentry.

There aren't that many groups of roamers in this current matchup, but you're exaggerating.

[Lazze.9870]

> @"DanAlcedo.3281" said:

> The single biggest problem Ranger has is that it has no viable Weapon for zerg fight.

> Rev = Hammer

> Ele = Staff

> Nec = Staff

> Guard = Staff

>

> Warrior and Mesmer also have no viable Zerg Weapon but they have crazy strong utility skills.

> Something Ranger also lacks.

>

> Before Ranger can be good at zerging , one of the 2 has to change.

 

Greatsword is useable, Soulbeast stance and support beast skill are certainly good utility skills. You can easily run in a zerg. You're just not optimal. You're not gonna lose fights just because you have a couple of stance share rangers in your squad.

[Substance E.4852]

> @"Lazze.9870" said:

> > @"DanAlcedo.3281" said:

> > The single biggest problem Ranger has is that it has no viable Weapon for zerg fight.

> > Rev = Hammer

> > Ele = Staff

> > Nec = Staff

> > Guard = Staff

> >

> > Warrior and Mesmer also have no viable Zerg Weapon but they have crazy strong utility skills.

> > Something Ranger also lacks.

> >

> > Before Ranger can be good at zerging , one of the 2 has to change.

>

> Greatsword is useable, Soulbeast stance and support beast skill are certainly good utility skills. You can easily run in a zerg. You're just not optimal. You're not gonna lose fights just because you have a couple of stance share rangers in your squad.

 

Stance share is borderline useful and completely outclassed by Firbrand and Ele support.

 

Good rangers wont be a major drain on your zerg but it's still slots that can be filled by objectively better classes (by a large margin).

 

It also requires GOOD rangers which is a very rare thing in WvW. Longbow allows people to be lazy and prevents them from learning proper positioning and skill use while camping in turbo glass gear.

[Mokk.2397]

The biggest reason rangers get a bad rap from commanders is not because the ranger is bad .It's because the commander is bad.The best commanders I have ever followed could command from any class.The commanders that complain are the ones that spec full tank and just want to tap everything in their path while the zerg buffs them up.So they think the ranger isn't pulling its weight because the commander thinks they aren't getting buffed from the ranger. Every class has a role to play ,but that role does not mean the class needs to be on point with the commander.That,s not the role of the ranger! The ranger is the artillery to provide cover fire and to pin snipe threats or disrupt the opposing teams sequences.Unfortunately these hair brained metas don't recognize real strategy.The only strategy these metas have is smash and bash and don't include the surgical strike. A half dozen rangers pouring cover on the front line of an opposing team or picking of scourge or firebrand is very disruptive and a force to be reckoned with. A good commander would know this.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

> @"Substance E.4852" said:

>

> Good rangers wont be a major drain on your zerg but it's still slots that can be filled by objectively better classes (by a large margin).

 

When I log in to Eternal Battlegrounds and see nobody standing afk by the vendors or the WP, then I might take a moment and consider the impact my presence has in the skirmish. But until that day (lol, right), I'll keep playing my SB Ranger, floating between flipping objectives and running with the zerg. If the commander kicks me (hasn't happened yet) or requires an invite to their squad - no biggie, it's not like I can't follow the group. In the end that will just diminish my effectiveness more, but so long as reward tracks are filled and loot chests bounce in the corner of my screen, I'm happy.

[Zero.3871]

i think SB stances would be a good support mechanic for beeing an alternative stabi caster to Guardian, also druids could support great with their healing. but atm FB is sooo strong in healing and buffing that no other supporter in this game have a Chance against that thing. the spots for dmg dealer are already fix, rev, scourge, ele. cause better AOE dmg skills. i think only FB nerfs could bring ranger back to zergs as supporter.

[Blocki.4931]

> @"Turkeyspit.3965" said:

> > @"Substance E.4852" said:

> >

> > Good rangers wont be a major drain on your zerg but it's still slots that can be filled by objectively better classes (by a large margin).

>

> When I log in to Eternal Battlegrounds and see nobody standing afk by the vendors or the WP, then I might take a moment and consider the impact my presence has in the skirmish. But until that day (lol, right), I'll keep playing my SB Ranger, floating between flipping objectives and running with the zerg. If the commander kicks me (hasn't happened yet) or requires an invite to their squad - no biggie, it's not like I can't follow the group. In the end that will just diminish my effectiveness more, but so long as reward tracks are filled and loot chests bounce in the corner of my screen, I'm happy.

 

This.

 

Playing a class that isn't very useful in squads doesn't mean you can't run with them anyway. Squads are only about concentrating boons + heals/barrier anyway on the individual subgroups and it's a choice between being put into a subgroup of "non squad" classes or just running outside of it with them lol

 

That said I like having rangers around because I feel like the ranged pressure doesn't hurt & for example would supplement my melee only play

[DeceiverX.8361]

It's the same boat all of the Adventurer professions (thief, ranger, engi) have been in since launch. If anything, ranger's the most usable of the three for zerg play right now and has been for a while.

 

The problem with why rangers are excluded from zergs has little to do with the ranger being weak as a whole. It's a strong class. The problem is that people who don't play it exactly how it needs to be played actively kill its allies (longbow glass into reflects). It's been especially egregious in past metas where permanent projectile reflection was a thing.

 

It's kind of just the nature of blobbing, though. You can't really do anything on a thief as far as solo-diving the blob goes, because despite bursting someone down, you're forced to disengage and they'll just get resurrected. So you need to wait for the proper time to try and assassinate.

 

The same is said for the ranger. You need to wait for unblockables and for your zerg to go in and then pump out damage while your attacks cannot be reflected, and then halt as soon as you no longer have unblockables as you'll otherwise potentially kill your own members.

 

Getting people to play ranger correctly is hard to do, and while still functional, has generally been less effective than most other options thanks to skills like CoR on revenant and meteor shower on ele with powercreeped defenses on guard.

[anduriell.6280]

> @"DeceiverX.8361" said:

> The problem with why rangers are excluded from zergs has little to do with the ranger being weak as a whole. It's a strong class. The problem is that people who don't play it exactly how it needs to be played actively kill its allies (longbow glass into reflects). It's been especially egregious in past metas where permanent projectile reflection was a thing.

i will say you are very wrong.

Last months ive been playing with scourge and although playing with that class depress me deeply (so lately i play very little ) the utility and strength of that class leaves the ranger class as whole as some waste of coding. Also the amount of loot and experience you get is massive compared to ranger, which also directly affects to the amount of rewards you get in this game mode. It's not only we don't provide nothing to the team but also we are hindering ourselves every time we enter with a ranger in wvw.

 

If you think it thru all classes in some of their specs except the ranger has a place in wvw, even the Holosmith has a role in havock\zergs. Even the thief is useful in zerg fights as can kill easily the stranded not risking dead. And not, a partialy dodged RF from a glass cannon ranger won't take even quarter of my 29k hp and 2.5k armor while i sit comfortingly with spikesof 8k dps and average of 6.5k dps (source arcdps ).

 

I recommend using arcdps while you do zerg as you can see some reference about your contribution to the team.

 

Just saying, core ranger could benefit greatly from AoEs as it was designed at the not so beginning with throwaway traps and mobile spirits. And Soulbeast needs a boost in condition damage and self-sustain not in power\hybrid as the core already has a lot of power damage modifiers.

 

Core profession is stuck in the original 2012 design which does not work anymore, with the grievance of lost functionality over the years (lost of ranged aoes and incidentally team support because of the removal of key traits), and although there has been efforts to keep the weapons in line of the actual times those have been shown to be insufficient because when the removal of the mechanics happened no compensation was given. As such ranger ended up with a diluted and watered mechanics.

 

This would have been the case if Grace of the Land would have been removed instead replaced by might generation.

 

Once core is updated to current times i'm pretty sure specs will look much better than they do now.

 

 

 

 

 

[DeceiverX.8361]

There's a big flaw in your argument...

 

Scourge is busted overpowered for WvW blobbing to the point it's breaking the game. There's zero justification in setting the ranger to be compared that high up. It'd be akin to a thief complaining that firebrand is tanky despite its low HP and the thief should be just as tanky as well. No. A busted spec is busted and shouldn't be used as the benchmark for others to buffed to. That's why we have the problems we have today.

 

A few days ago we had some people running some numbers in this subsection about dealing 8-12k AA's at 1800 range via longbow. You can't seriously tell me that the ranger is bad at picking off targets when it can kill most backliners from within the safety of its own group in two AA's.

 

The ranger has been a dominant spec in the roaming scene since the CDI and especially since HoT with druid. I've only got like a hundred or two hours on ranger and Soulbeast is my best performing roaming character right now. And I'm not even good.

 

Ranger is strong. It's just not useful in zergs because it's too risky for most commanders to take on unorganized/unskilled people playing them since they can kill their own line, and the benefits of the ranger only start occurring as the fight is just starting.

 

Ranger isn't going to be in demand in WvW blobbing unless Guardian and warrior both fall out of the zerg meta, which is definitely never happening. There are some tweaks to ranger utilities that could be made that may make it less selfish, but nothing is changing its strategic value.

 

Spammable AoE is a problem. Adding more isn't a reasonable solution. There need to be less of it.

[anduriell.6280]

> @"DeceiverX.8361" said:

> A few days ago we had some people running some numbers in this subsection about dealing 8-12k AA's at 1800 range via longbow. You can't seriously tell me that the ranger is bad at picking off targets when it can kill most backliners from within the safety of its own group in two AA's.

>

> The ranger has been a dominant spec in the roaming scene since the CDI and especially since HoT with druid. I've only got like a hundred or two hours on ranger and Soulbeast is my best performing roaming character right now. And I'm not even good.

 

Actually compared to ranger any class is busted, firebrand is aburdily tanky, mirage and DE are a burst machine which are almost untouchable.

Warrior is the same, can deal 5k AA while being tanky. Holo is also broken with that permanent CC + burst.

I would even say even weaver is broken compared to ranger, but that class requires a lot of a skill compared to ranger.

 

So i will leave this open question here:

when everybody else seems to be better than you, could it be you may be the problem and not them?