Night capping needs to go....like 5 years ago.

[Kaiser.9873]

Does anyone really care about this anymore?

Servers with OT coverage push up tiers. Servers without OT coverage drop tiers. All servers have NA coverage so primetime is active.

[Balthazzarr.1349]

> @"hunkamania.7561" said:

> Why does it even matter when PPT Means nothing? Those guys night capping and you getting angry about it is a waste of energy.

 

Exactly. ya, let's penalize people for coming online when they can and trying to have some fun in the game that most paid for. Let's also get upset about the "night capping" because we might.... lose? Lose what? At the worst we get papered and guess what.. you GET PIPS for all that back capping. THAT is all that's really left in WvW other than the fight groups. Seriously people have to stop getting upset about "losing our stuff". Can you imagine if we never lost our stuff? What would we gain? No pips, no xp, nothing.... Let it go! so we can get it back...winning means zero in WvW so just try to have fun... get some good fights in... and let the k-train (not really k-train since you don't get crap for karma anymore)... do their thing and get their own pips where they can.. :)

[SkyShroud.2865]

Ermm.....

 

First, let's talk about timezones because a lot of people ahve very poor understanding of timezones.

 

The coverage can split into many timezones but I will simplify the WvW time slice to the followings

* EST

* PST

* Late / Early OCX

* OCX

* SEA

* Late SEA / Early EU

* EU

* Late EU / Early EST

 

Now, you see, it isn't a simple NA or SEA/OCX or EU. It is split into many timezones. Inbetween some of these timezones, also has their own populations. There are timezone like MST (Mountains Standard Time), CST (Central Standard Time), BRT (Brasília time), UTC +9 (Koreans, Japan, Part of Indonesia).....etc.

 

For NA servers, there are tons of people in EST. However, once we move towards PST, a lot of servers will start to show lack of people. Then move on to late/early ocx when even more servers will has lesser people. The problems start to arise in particularly as early as PST and stretch along the way. Mind you, PST is still NA region timezone.

 

What I can say is a lot of this timezones issue arise due to stacking. It isn't that we don't have people to go around evenly but people chose to stack.

[HazyDaisy.4107]

This is not a 5 year old issue it's a 5 day issue.

[Israel.7056]

> @"Balthazzarr.1349" said:

> Exactly. ya, let's penalize people for coming online when they can and trying to have some fun in the game that most paid for. Let's also get upset about the "night capping" because we might.... lose? Lose what? At the worst we get papered and guess what.. you GET PIPS for all that back capping. THAT is all that's really left in WvW other than the fight groups. Seriously people have to stop getting upset about "losing our stuff". Can you imagine if we never lost our stuff? What would we gain? No pips, no xp, nothing.... Let it go! so we can get it back...winning means zero in WvW so just try to have fun... get some good fights in... and let the k-train (not really k-train since you don't get crap for karma anymore)... do their thing and get their own pips where they can.. :)

 

They should get penalized because they have consistently ruined the game for all the NA players who bought the game thinking that their actions might actually matter on NA servers.

 

But you have given some great advice for NA players playing on servers with no OCX/SEA; You're going to lose everything you get in your timezone no matter how hard you work to get it upgraded or how well you played in the four hours it probably took you to crack it from being t3 in the first place, might as well not worry about it and just k train some towers and backcap stuff wherever you can. Don't worry about how your stuff is all paper every day you log in and their stuff is all t3, that's just the way it is.

 

This consistent reality of NA meaning absolutely nothing has been largely responsible for killing NA player morale and giving NA players a very simple choice: Care about winning and try to stack a server with OCX/SEA (BG/JQ historically) or don't care about winning and play anywhere else with the understanding that nothing you do will ever matter because it will be erased once you go to bed.

[X T D.6458]

> @"Ceriph.3518" said:

> I know people don't take the "week" scheme of WvW seriously because winning means literally nothing....but as of right now I'm sitting in an outnumbered EBG with like 3 people watching a guild group of ~15 people just destroy everything. NSP and WvW hype?

 

Winning doesn't matter, and people don't take the matchup seriously...and you wonder why you lack numbers? /facepalm

[Aeolus.3615]

> @"X T D.6458" said:

> > @"Ceriph.3518" said:

> > I know people don't take the "week" scheme of WvW seriously because winning means literally nothing....but as of right now I'm sitting in an outnumbered EBG with like 3 people watching a guild group of ~15 people just destroy everything. NSP and WvW hype?

>

> Winning doesn't matter, and people don't take the matchup seriously...and you wonder why you lack numbers? /facepalm

 

That's WvW biggest issue, it is just a place to ktrain and bail out after a few 111111 spammed.... cause was designed for casuals only,

[Optimator.3589]

> @"X T D.6458" said:

> > @"Ceriph.3518" said:

> > I know people don't take the "week" scheme of WvW seriously because winning means literally nothing....but as of right now I'm sitting in an outnumbered EBG with like 3 people watching a guild group of ~15 people just destroy everything. NSP and WvW hype?

>

> Winning doesn't matter, and people don't take the matchup seriously...and you wonder why you lack numbers? /facepalm

 

Getting some good fights=winning in my book. EBG and blue BL were lit in T3 last night with NSP and YB double-teaming Mag objectives. Unfortunately, lower tiers usually have fewer nights like this, so some PPT is required to stay out of T4, and we're generally lacking in anything but NA prime coverage. Winning PPT is meaningless in and of itself. It's just a means to an end.

[XenesisII.1540]

Those were like garbage fights with ppters, nothing "lit" about that.. Seems like it's true mag just wants to stay in t3/4 for easy fights, they don't care to defend or disappear when it's time to get out of the gutter tiers. Then again it isn't any better in t2, t1 might actually be the "lit" tier again.

 

[TheQuickFox.3826]

I like the nightly capping sessions. More structured gameplay, better rewards and less red circle seas.

[Optimator.3589]

> @"XenesisII.1540" said:

> Those were like garbage fights with ppters, nothing "lit" about that.. Seems like it's true mag just wants to stay in t3/4 for easy fights, they don't care to defend or disappear when it's time to get out of the gutter tiers. Then again it isn't any better in t2, t1 might actually be the "lit" tier again.

>

 

Some of those fights were just bag deliveries, sure. And you're right that we have players who vanish when a comped enemy guild group appears. But there were some pretty good tussles too. Either way, not really my point, which remains that PPT is a means to an end. Obviously, many players are going to disagree on that, but w/e.

[coglin.1496]

> @"Dayra.7405" said:

> > @"SlippyCheeze.5483" said:

> > How would you propose to solve this, without preventing people from playing WvW during the time they have free?

>

> The community worked hard to work out many proposals for that. But it was ignored till it was to late. The skirmish system now balance it a bit. You only get a skirmish win per 2h, but you no longer get 10 times as much score-difference during the night than during primetime.

 

It was ignored because most of what the community offered were horrible ideas, and not a single idea that would really resolve the issue was offered at all in my opinion.

 

> But since some years it's irrelevant, as every Veteran sees the scoring as irrelevant, at best it is something to manipulate to meet the opponent you want to meet.

 

So what? If it's irrelevant why do you care? If you Proclaim none of it matters what are you worried about when something is or is not capped? If it is so irrelevant why do you care what time of day something is or is not capped?

 

> Nightcapping is now mostly: force your primetime population into matches they cannot stand.

 

No it is not. As far as I can tell it is simply you trying to turn the term "Nightcapping" into a derogatory statement to use as a personal attack against anybody who cannot play the same time you can.

 

> That's ok, as it's self regulating, i.e. **people that night-cap harm their own server** , by taking away fight-balance for the majority of the population :)

 

I work 12 night shifts. So many of the days I am off work I am up for 12 hours at night as I sleep during the day, and spend time in the evening hours with my wife and kids, until my family goes to bed.

 

The problem here is you are so self-centered that you dubbed me an evil night camper because I rather spend time with my family when you're playing, and play when it is convenient for me and enjoyable for me to play with my co-workers who work the same shift.

 

 

[Brujeria.7536]

> @"SlippyCheeze.5483" said:

> > @"Ceriph.3518" said:

> > I know people don't take the "week" scheme of WvW seriously because winning means literally nothing....but as of right now I'm sitting in an outnumbered EBG with like 3 people watching a guild group of ~15 people just destroy everything. NSP and WvW hype?

>

> How would you propose to solve this, without preventing people from playing WvW during the time they have free?

 

Simple. You dont. If population of servers decrease during certain times of the day limit the amount of players that can access the map or even force remove them after a period. Either that or simply only open them for 12 hours a day (these 12 hours are based on the servers that fight each other, measured trough players at peak time)

 

For every person that does not agree with this: This was why EotM was invented in the first place.

[Lord Trejgon.2809]

> @"Brujeria.7536" said:

> > @"SlippyCheeze.5483" said:

> > > @"Ceriph.3518" said:

> > > I know people don't take the "week" scheme of WvW seriously because winning means literally nothing....but as of right now I'm sitting in an outnumbered EBG with like 3 people watching a guild group of ~15 people just destroy everything. NSP and WvW hype?

> >

> > How would you propose to solve this, without preventing people from playing WvW during the time they have free?

>

> Simple. You dont. If population of servers decrease during certain times of the day limit the amount of players that can access the map or even force remove them after a period. Either that or simply only open them for 12 hours a day (these 12 hours are based on the servers that fight each other, measured trough players at peak time)

>

> For every person that does not agree with this: This was why EotM was invented in the first place.

 

correction - EotM was invented to give something to do to all those people wanting to WvW but "stuck in the queue for hours"

 

which is not the same as booting out everyone from servers for half of possible playtime just because you didn't like them getting some skirmishes won when you were asleep/in work/whatever - and then telling them to go to that other map were half wvw functionalities does not even work properly.

[azizul.8469]

what nightcapping ? there is no such thing. when you think it is night, it is bright daylight for me here....

[CrimsonNeonite.1048]

People already started the double wxp event here.

http://i.imgur.com/ch9deML.jpg

Although I agree you can't stop players playing at times they can, the gameplay can be mindless.

 

Skirmishes definitely lessen the impact of night capping though. I wish we had this, when PPT was more competitive between communities.

 

 

[DemonSeed.3528]

> @"azizul.8469" said:

> what nightcapping ? there is no such thing. when you think it is night, it is bright daylight for me here....

 

I believe "lack of coverage" is the euphemism for "night capping".

[Israel.7056]

> @"azizul.8469" said:

> what nightcapping ? there is no such thing. when you think it is night, it is bright daylight for me here....

 

But if we peg the region to NA which is where the servers are supposed to be located then we can get a clear anchor for what we call "NA prime." This time period is when most of the actual North American players are playing and it's between about 12pm est and maybe 4am est at the latest for the west coast NA players. So if your usual playtime doesn't fall within that range you're considered an offhours player on NA servers and anything you take in that period of time is considered "nightcapping." On EU servers it's anyone who plays outside of EU prime which is somewhere around 2pm est and 6-7pm est for me. We could constrain the range even further for NA because 12pm falls within what is usually referred to as EU timezone on NA servers but for the sake of argument let's just say that there's about an eight hour gap which is mostly covered by Australians and Asians that constitutes the "offhours" or "nightcapping" timezones. It is precisely this 8 hr "nightcapping" gap which has historically been the prime determinant in the actual outcome of matches even after the addition of skirmishes to the game.

[LetoII.3782]

Every time this argument comes up we pretend like there's not a massive population disparity between NA primetime population and NA offhours

Offprime times are offprime times because far far far far less people are present during off prime hours.

 

Maybe your daytime IS offhours. It's still offhours and actions during the least populated hours are too impactful compared to the amount of people contributing.

[Gop.8713]

The only solution I could see for this is weighting points based on how many players are present, but that would create even more angst over ppl not pulling weight or being afk in spawn etc. . . .

 

For me I'm NA but I play mostly in low-pop hours, OCX I think? Reset +6-8ish, whatever that is. I'd be fine with the hours I play being weighted less due to lower pop though . . .

 

I do find it a little odd that the ppl most worked up about their contribution not counting enough seem to be ppl who run with the large groups, where the individual's contribution is always smaller than it would be if they were able to function more independently. Unless they're all tags ofc, in which case it makes a bit more sense . . .

[SweetPotato.7456]

Night to you is day to other people.

 

footnote:

althought there is know to have commander who doesn't sleep lol.

[coglin.1496]

> @"Dayra.7405" said:

> > @"coglin.1496" said:

> > > @"Dayra.7405" said:

> > > > @"SlippyCheeze.5483" said:

> > The problem here is you are so self-centered

>

> Interesting judgement. Given that you argue with your personal story against my analysis of the effects on the far majority. ;)

>

>

 

Yes, I am not demanding your prime availablity to the game be locked out as you are mine. If you feel it is self-centered for me to believe it is reasonable for players to play at the time it is convenient for them, then you do not understand what that term means in this application. As you are specifically demanding that other players outside of what is convenient for you be disallowed to play.

[Dayra.7405]

> @"coglin.1496" said:

> As you are specifically demanding that other players outside of what is convenient for you be disallowed to play.

 

I never did, neither now, nor years ago. I proposed once that three time-sliced matches run in parallel: The 0-8 match, the 8-16 match and the 16-24 match so each match run 7x8 instead of 7x24 (in a way the skirmishes are going in this direction) and more important that ranking and match-making is done for each time zone sperately (that's still missing), with the INTENDED EFFECT that: strong night-crews play against strong night-crew and strong prime-crew play against strong prime-crews and NOT AS STILL TODAY that strong night-crews play against doors and strong prime-crews play against walking-loot-bags.

 

I think, it can be in the night-cappers interest as well, as at least in my view, fighting people is still more interesting that fighting doors. But I am also aware that probably (the opposition against changes suggest it) night-cappers don't want anything else than farming doors without opposition, i.e. they choose to play at night because they hate opposition.

 

And the difference of my previous opinion to my current one is: I have accepted that WvW is not competitive, i.e. that anything that takes longer than 2-4hours cannot be competitive. Which I still think is a pity, as it wastes motivation and commitment, i.e. looses players and play-time.

[Shura.4280]

lol @nightcapping. there's no way to stop this. dont forget people live in different time zones accross the world and play in the same server. while you sleep, for other people its a day time, so they play as they wish. nightcapping needs to go, lol, get over urself

[Gop.8713]

> @"Dayra.7405" said:

> > @"coglin.1496" said:

> > As you are specifically demanding that other players outside of what is convenient for you be disallowed to play.

>

> I never did, neither now, nor years ago. I proposed once that three time-sliced matches run in parallel: The 0-8 match, the 8-16 match and the 16-24 match so each match run 7x8 instead of 7x24 (in a way the skirmishes are going in this direction) and more important that ranking and match-making is done for each time zone sperately (that's still missing), with the INTENDED EFFECT that: strong night-crews play against strong night-crew and strong prime-crew play against strong prime-crews and NOT AS STILL TODAY that strong night-crews play against doors and strong prime-crews play against walking-loot-bags.

>

> I think, it can be in the night-cappers interest as well, as at least in my view, fighting people is still more interesting that fighting doors. But I am also aware that probably (the opposition against changes suggest it) night-cappers don't want anything else than farming doors without opposition, i.e. they choose to play at night because they hate opposition.

>

> And the difference of my previous opinion to my current one is: I have accepted that WvW is not competitive, i.e. that anything that takes longer than 2-4hours cannot be competitive. Which I still think is a pity, as it wastes motivation and commitment, i.e. looses players and play-time.

 

I think having time-zone tiers is a great idea, but I can see how server-based matchups made it difficult to implement. The alliance system may make it easier, but how would it work exactly? Would each player have one alliance for each time zone . . ?

 

I think you may be revealing some bias in the second paragraph though, and you might be surprised how much more active pvp is during off hours vs primetime. I play primarily at the tail end of your 0-8 match, but when I'm available to play at reset I usually do, and there is much less opportunity for pvp at that hour, with everything being dominated by large groups. Still fun, but not as much opportunity for an individual to find content . . .