Plautze.6290 Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 > @"Timo.1065" said: > > @"Game of Bones.8975" said: > > Another option is "I didn't even notice the change" > > How dare they change THEIR logo? Quickly, get your pitchforks and torches! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonSlayer.1087 Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 This thread is just asking for trouble. Close it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mea.5491 Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 We don't need an official LGBT event in the game, there will be one hosted by players (June 23/24, it was advertised on Reddit), that's more than enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaraki.5784 Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 > @"aspirine.6852" said: > No. And that is all I will say about it. Last time I got banned for giving my opinion. I can't express how much I agree with you, sadly we can't say anything more on this forum, else our posts get insta-deleted.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einlanzer.1627 Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 > @"Menadena.7482" said: > I am going to guess maybe you are not in the US or some other western country? It is pride month, it is pretty common to do rainbows on things (I assume that is what they did). Just like on St Patrick's day you will find things in the US turning green for a day. I am mostly ambivalent about changing the logo (I don't really think it's needed, but it's not harmful either - plenty of companies show this kind of LGBT support and are perfectly within their right to do so). But, this is an interesting point - handling of pride is no different than handling of St. Patty's day. If you oppose changing a logo because it's "political" you should also oppose changing the logo for events like St. Patty's Day. I'd guess that most of the naysayers don't have any problem with Anet doing similar things with other groups. This shows the issue is you, not pride and not Anet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarshallLaw.9260 Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 > @"sevenDEADLY.5281" said: > > @"Plautze.6290" said: > > > @"Timo.1065" said: > > > > @"Plautze.6290" said: > > > > I miss the "I don't give kitten" button, please fix! > > > > > > It is easy to say "I don't care" I did that on purpose. > > > > Of course you did that on purpose. Otherwise "I don't care" would dominate your poll. > > There's literally no options other than 3 choices of "what a great idea!" and 1 choice of "I'm a horrible person" while completely ignoring the broad spectrum of views. But I guess that's really all politics in general is today; agree with me or you're a bad person, while ignoring the broad spectrum of humanity. In all honesty, when it comes to opinionated polls on this forum where the OP is trying to prove that their pre-decided position on a topic is the correct one, you'll find they are all constructed from loaded questions and heavily biased voting choices. Most amateur polls like this have several options "for" their idea, and one or two suggesting that if you pick against, there is something wrong with you. The classic "decent people would like this and anyone who disagrees clearly hates babies/puppies/humanity etc". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leo G.4501 Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 > @"Turin.6921" said: > 1. Every piece of culture is political. Every expressions is political. Even the stance "i do not care about politics" is a political stance. Politics is just an expression of a viewpoint. And the viewpoint is basically how you view your life and the world, including what entertains you. How could it not, even unconsciously, part of any creative media. Its like asking to breath without oxygen. > > 2. The game is already taking a specific stance on the matter based on content. Its the logo that made the difference? > > 3. You are missing an option in the poll: I do not even care about a logo- why should I? There are more important things to care about. 1. You, as an individual, are free to take a political stance on a matter but the moment you infringe on that freedom of another individual to express their political view because you don't agree with it or you feel it is hateful or disruptive, you have mutated that notion of freedom and it should be stripped from you all the same. It's easier to just not dwell on politics in an environment that doesn't support free speech/expression. 2. The game is not an individual nor does it encompass the political views of all that fall under its logo. Saying that a game or company is taking a stance can only happen if it infringes on those involved to think and choose for themselves. 3. I agree with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plautze.6290 Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 > @"MarshallLaw.9260" said: > > @"sevenDEADLY.5281" said: > > > @"Plautze.6290" said: > > > > @"Timo.1065" said: > > > > > @"Plautze.6290" said: > > > > > I miss the "I don't give kitten" button, please fix! > > > > > > > > It is easy to say "I don't care" I did that on purpose. > > > > > > Of course you did that on purpose. Otherwise "I don't care" would dominate your poll. > > > > There's literally no options other than 3 choices of "what a great idea!" and 1 choice of "I'm a horrible person" while completely ignoring the broad spectrum of views. But I guess that's really all politics in general is today; agree with me or you're a bad person, while ignoring the broad spectrum of humanity. > > In all honesty, when it comes to opinionated polls on this forum where the OP is trying to prove that their pre-decided position on a topic is the correct one, you'll find they are all constructed from loaded questions and heavily biased voting choices. > Most amateur polls like this have several options "for" their idea, and one or two suggesting that if you pick against, there is something wrong with you. > The classic "decent people would like this and anyone who disagrees clearly hates babies/puppies/humanity etc". Literally, the emperor's new clothes. "If you can't see these clothes, you are hopelessly stupid". BTW, why hasn't there been a thread with pics of fabulous fashion? Right now, I'm thinking about coloring my warrior all merry and gay in fabulous colors in honor to pride month =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aodlop.1907 Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 I don't mind gay and trans people as individuals. I do despise the LGBT movement though. I'm pretty sure people who used to like or at least tolerate gay people started disliking them because of the LGBT movement. So sick if this propaganda. As if the whole "help refugees" thing in PoF wasn't enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leo G.4501 Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > @"sevenDEADLY.5281" said: > > As Ayakaru said, the demands become more and more until they're unreasonable. Anet already supports this through their content as many have pointed out. Now you're mad because that's not enough and you're demanding they change their logo. Then, if/when that's done, you'll decide that isn't enough and make another demand that's one step up, and so on and so on until it very quickly becomes unreasonable or more likely begins to infringe on another subgroup of people. Does Arenanet have to change their logo for black history month? Do they have to change their logo for jewish american heritage month? What about other places besides the united states? LGBT history month is February in the UK, but oh wait thats black history month is the US. Who gets to decide what anet does with their logo for February? Can't have one without excluding the other. LBGT isn't even the only celebrated group for June, why do they get June and the others are excluded? If you can't see the problem with going down this route, then you really are only making this suggestion to benefit yourself and no one else. > > Who is demanding what? > > Arenanet decided to do something with their own logo. Are you arguing that they shouldnt be allowed to do what they want with their own property? > I'd personally argue that, they can do what they want to with their logo but when someone on the forums goes and stirs the pot and pokes at the hornet's nest, expect people to get silenced and expect people to get mad about not being able to criticise the OP or Anet's choice of support. It's just best not to bring identity politics into the game...but Anet are the catalyst here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einlanzer.1627 Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 > @"Aodlop.1907" said: > I don't mind gay and trans people as individuals. > I do despise the LGBT movement though. > > I'm pretty sure people who used to like or at least tolerate gay people started disliking them because of the LGBT movement. So sick if this propaganda. As if the whole "help refugees" thing in PoF wasn't enough. I'm curious, what is it about the movement that you despise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashen.2907 Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 > @"Aodlop.1907" said: > I don't mind gay and trans people as individuals. > I do despise the LGBT movement though. > > I'm pretty sure people who used to like or at least tolerate gay people started disliking them because of the LGBT movement. So sick if this propaganda. As if the whole "help refugees" thing in PoF wasn't enough. Wait, what? Is there a problem with helping people fleeing an undead monster? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plautze.6290 Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > @"Aodlop.1907" said: > > I don't mind gay and trans people as individuals. > > I do despise the LGBT movement though. > > > > I'm pretty sure people who used to like or at least tolerate gay people started disliking them because of the LGBT movement. So sick if this propaganda. As if the whole "help refugees" thing in PoF wasn't enough. > > Wait, what? > > Is there a problem with helping people fleeing an undead monster? *mumble-screams*"They took our jooooobs!" =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goettel.4389 Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 Didn't know and don't care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leo G.4501 Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 > @"Einlanzer.1627" said: > > @"Aodlop.1907" said: > > I don't mind gay and trans people as individuals. > > I do despise the LGBT movement though. > > > > I'm pretty sure people who used to like or at least tolerate gay people started disliking them because of the LGBT movement. So sick if this propaganda. As if the whole "help refugees" thing in PoF wasn't enough. > > I'm curious, what is it about the movement that you despise? Likely that people with tolerance are constantly tested and pressured because LGBT(and all its additional letters and symbols) is constantly lumped in with any and all other groups of "marginalized" peoples to form a collective of cognative dissonant outcry over what mostly amounts to nothing. We don't need a pride month in western civilized countries just like we don't need a black history month in the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNecrosanct.4028 Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 As a gay person myself, I have to admit it's nice to see this small symbol of respect to a community. Every person, no matter who or what you are, appreciates it when someone gives them a sign of recognition. But on the other hand, it's not necessary. What I mean is, it's more important to show your respect and recognition through every day actions than one time/annual symbolic gestures or words. As for the "where does it end?" arguments, understandable. It's apparently human nature to demand more after you get something you want. A lot of little children do it, and a lot of adults are no different in that regard. But they forget one thing: respect is earned. You can't demand it. You have to earn it through your actions. This world is for all of us, which means none of us will get all our wishes catered to, nor should we. That's the nature of compromise, for all sides involved. All in all, I say it's nice to see this symbolic gesture, but I wouldn't have felt any different towards ANet if they hadn't. I already know they support the LGBT community, and that's not something you need to repeat over and over. As long as it's little gestures like this, I'm fine with it. Too much recognition, though, quickly turns to pandering. I do not need to be pandered to. I find it patronizing. We might be called a minority group, but in truth most minority groups are anything but a minority. And I don't think I speak only for myself when I say I do not want people to see me as a member of a minority group. I want people to see me for all I am, because orientation is just a small part of it. Most of us don't identify ourselves based on our orientation, but on more personal things. Treat it as matter-of-factly and as natural as we do, and everything will be just fine. The more people who do that, the less we need these kinds of actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alga.6498 Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 As a gay person myself, I support and it brings joy to my heart seeing ANet does something like this, :) Keep going, ANet! Free love to **everyone**! ?❤???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einlanzer.1627 Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 > @"Leo G.4501" said: > > @"Einlanzer.1627" said: > > > @"Aodlop.1907" said: > > > I don't mind gay and trans people as individuals. > > > I do despise the LGBT movement though. > > > > > > I'm pretty sure people who used to like or at least tolerate gay people started disliking them because of the LGBT movement. So sick if this propaganda. As if the whole "help refugees" thing in PoF wasn't enough. > > > > I'm curious, what is it about the movement that you despise? > > Likely that people with tolerance are constantly tested and pressured because LGBT(and all its additional letters and symbols) is constantly lumped in with any and all other groups of "marginalized" peoples to form a collective of cognative dissonant outcry over what mostly amounts to nothing. We don't need a pride month in western civilized countries just like we don't need a black history month in the US. I actually can't say that I wholly disagree with this assessment, and, being gay, I very frequently get annoyed by the degree to which other gay people become narcissistically obsessed with their gay identity and then operate from an assumption of victimhood all the time and, which is also true of pretty much every other minority group, because it's the version of reality they're constantly bombarded with from left-wing media and not because it's actual objective reality in most case. That said, I would not discount that marginalization is still a thing in the US, though - many gays grow up in families and social environments where they have their psychology warped and scarred through internalization of homophobia by religious nutjobs and outdated ideas of masculinity and femininity (which can affect straight people to). This is why it became an identity and organically transformed into a social movement in the mid 20th century. It's just that it's starting to become oudated for where we are now, but I think the movement is also slowly organically transforming to recognize this. The gay identity is slowly normalizing and being assimilated back into the mainstream, which is something that's very noticeable when you attend a pride event now vs. even 10 or 15 years ago - particularly in areas where it's very accepted, and the concept of pride has swelled to encompass a lot more than it once did. As someone who is liberal, I still think there's a strong argument to be made that identity politics is corrosive and causing more problems than it's solving. This is especially noteworthy since most of the problems that actually need solving at this point are economic in nature and not social, so it can start acting as a barrier to actual progress by dividing people that would otherwise be united. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aspirine.6852 Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 > @"Einlanzer.1627" said: > > @"aspirine.6852" said: > > No. And that is all I will say about it. Last time I got banned for giving my opinion. > > Probably because your opinion is bigoted and stupid, I would guess. > @"Einlanzer.1627" said: > > @"aspirine.6852" said: > > No. And that is all I will say about it. Last time I got banned for giving my opinion. > > Probably because your opinion is bigoted and stupid, I would guess. You would think so but it really was not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNecrosanct.4028 Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 > @"Einlanzer.1627" said: > > @"Leo G.4501" said: > > > @"Einlanzer.1627" said: > > > > @"Aodlop.1907" said: > > > > I don't mind gay and trans people as individuals. > > > > I do despise the LGBT movement though. > > > > > > > > I'm pretty sure people who used to like or at least tolerate gay people started disliking them because of the LGBT movement. So sick if this propaganda. As if the whole "help refugees" thing in PoF wasn't enough. > > > > > > I'm curious, what is it about the movement that you despise? > > > > Likely that people with tolerance are constantly tested and pressured because LGBT(and all its additional letters and symbols) is constantly lumped in with any and all other groups of "marginalized" peoples to form a collective of cognative dissonant outcry over what mostly amounts to nothing. We don't need a pride month in western civilized countries just like we don't need a black history month in the US. > > I actually can't say that I wholly disagree with this assessment, and, being gay, I very frequently get annoyed by the degree to which other gay people operate from an assumption of victimhood all the time, which is also true of pretty much every other minority group, because it's the version of reality they're constantly bombarded with from left-wing media and not because it's actual objective reality in most case. > > That said, I would not discount that marginalization is still a thing in the US, though - many gays grow up in families and social environments where they have their psychology warped and scarred through internalization of homophobia by religious nutjobs and outdated ideas of masculinity and femininity. This is why it became an identity and organically transformed into a social movement in the mid 20th century. It's just that it's starting to become oudated for where we are now. > > As someone who is liberal, I still think there's a strong argument to be made that identity politics is corrosive and causing more problems than it's solving. This is especially noteworthy since most of the problems that actually need solving at this point are economic in nature and not social, so it can start acting as a barrier to actual progress. I couldn't agree more. I also have the feeling that equal rights movements cause more harm than good. Not all of them, and not all the time, but it's like I mentioned in my own post: we get something we want, and then we want more. We teach our children not to indulge that impulse all the time, but we adults conveniently forget all about that when it comes to something we want. I also believe that solving our economic problems will also solve some of our social problems as well, since a lot of those come from feelings of fear and insecurity, which are in large part caused by political and economical problems affecting our every day lives and livelihoods. I think we have made our social issues too political. We've created a situation where you're either on this side of the fence, or the other side. One side is considered the right side, the other not so much. At least, it feels that way to me. Black and white thinking, while reality is much more intricate and complicated than that. I agree that there are still people who need others to fight for them and that this is a just fight, but I wish we would learn to apply more wisdom and consideration in doing that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leo G.4501 Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 > @"Einlanzer.1627" said: > > @"Leo G.4501" said: > > > @"Einlanzer.1627" said: > > > > @"Aodlop.1907" said: > > > > I don't mind gay and trans people as individuals. > > > > I do despise the LGBT movement though. > > > > > > > > I'm pretty sure people who used to like or at least tolerate gay people started disliking them because of the LGBT movement. So sick if this propaganda. As if the whole "help refugees" thing in PoF wasn't enough. > > > > > > I'm curious, what is it about the movement that you despise? > > > > Likely that people with tolerance are constantly tested and pressured because LGBT(and all its additional letters and symbols) is constantly lumped in with any and all other groups of "marginalized" peoples to form a collective of cognative dissonant outcry over what mostly amounts to nothing. We don't need a pride month in western civilized countries just like we don't need a black history month in the US. > > I actually can't say that I wholly disagree with this assessment, and, being gay, I very frequently get annoyed by the degree to which other gay people operate from an assumption of victimhood all the time, which is also true of pretty much every other minority group, because it's the version of reality they're constantly bombarded with from left-wing media and not because it's actual objective reality in most case. > > That said, I would not discount that marginalization is still a thing in the US, though - many gays grow up in families and social environments where they have their psychology warped and scarred through internalization of homophobia by religious nutjobs and outdated ideas of masculinity and femininity. This is why it became an identity and organically transformed into a social movement in the mid 20th century. It's just that it's starting to become oudated for where we are now. > > As someone who is liberal, I still think there's a strong argument to be made that identity politics is corrosive and causing more problems than it's solving. This is especially noteworthy since most of the problems that actually need solving at this point are economic in nature and not social, so it can start acting as a barrier to actual progress. As a centrist, I wouldn't discount marginalized groups either, but in the perspective of society as a whole, any marginalization that takes place can be overcome by the individual. And any marginalization that occurs that an individual cannot overcome, the majority sees as an infringement of freedom and oppressive and will collectively quash it. As a black man, it was more destructive to me overall to consume that my "group" was being marginalized or oppressed or attacked and until I took in more perspectives understood that it's the individual who must take responsibility for their lives and how they react to those around them. I'm sure it's tough for homosexuals growing up in strict religious or homophobic communities but everyone has their individual hardships that they must overcome. I suppose it depends on individual ego to judge whose hardship is harder to overcome which is likely the root of my distaste for most identity politics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einlanzer.1627 Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 > @"Leo G.4501" said: > > @"Einlanzer.1627" said: > > > @"Leo G.4501" said: > > > > @"Einlanzer.1627" said: > > > > > @"Aodlop.1907" said: > > > > > I don't mind gay and trans people as individuals. > > > > > I do despise the LGBT movement though. > > > > > > > > > > I'm pretty sure people who used to like or at least tolerate gay people started disliking them because of the LGBT movement. So sick if this propaganda. As if the whole "help refugees" thing in PoF wasn't enough. > > > > > > > > I'm curious, what is it about the movement that you despise? > > > > > > Likely that people with tolerance are constantly tested and pressured because LGBT(and all its additional letters and symbols) is constantly lumped in with any and all other groups of "marginalized" peoples to form a collective of cognative dissonant outcry over what mostly amounts to nothing. We don't need a pride month in western civilized countries just like we don't need a black history month in the US. > > > > I actually can't say that I wholly disagree with this assessment, and, being gay, I very frequently get annoyed by the degree to which other gay people operate from an assumption of victimhood all the time, which is also true of pretty much every other minority group, because it's the version of reality they're constantly bombarded with from left-wing media and not because it's actual objective reality in most case. > > > > That said, I would not discount that marginalization is still a thing in the US, though - many gays grow up in families and social environments where they have their psychology warped and scarred through internalization of homophobia by religious nutjobs and outdated ideas of masculinity and femininity. This is why it became an identity and organically transformed into a social movement in the mid 20th century. It's just that it's starting to become oudated for where we are now. > > > > As someone who is liberal, I still think there's a strong argument to be made that identity politics is corrosive and causing more problems than it's solving. This is especially noteworthy since most of the problems that actually need solving at this point are economic in nature and not social, so it can start acting as a barrier to actual progress. > > As a centrist, I wouldn't discount marginalized groups either, but in the perspective of society as a whole, any marginalization that takes place can be overcome by the individual. And any marginalization that occurs that an individual cannot overcome, the majority sees as an infringement of freedom and oppressive and will collectively quash it. As a black man, it was more destructive to me overall to consume that my "group" was being marginalized or oppressed or attacked and until I took in more perspectives understood that it's the individual who must take responsibility for their lives and how they react to those around them. I'm sure it's tough for homosexuals growing up in strict religious or homophobic communities but everyone has their individual hardships that they must overcome. I suppose it depends on individual ego to judge whose hardship is harder to overcome which is likely the root of my distaste for most identity politics. I very much agree with most of this. At some point, you're making a personal choice to revel in a state of victimhood, which in many cases is delusional, but, even when it's not, it won't do you _or the group you're associated_ with any favors. I remember reading an article by a black author a while back discussing this in the context of the black community, and he described it as a widespread cult of victimology leading to a cult of separatism, which is ironic because it's the opposite of what progressives in the mid 20th century were fighting for. This conservative movement that's happened on the left is why I can very comfortably consider myself liberal/progressive while agreeing with everything you wrote here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artemisa.9013 Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 I support LGBT+ and other minorities, and I'm more than okay with ANet using the rainbow colors to support these people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turin.6921 Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 > @"Leo G.4501" said: > 1. You, as an individual, are free to take a political stance on a matter but the moment you infringe on that freedom of another individual to express their political view because you don't agree with it or you feel it is hateful or disruptive, you have mutated that notion of freedom and it should be stripped from you all the same. It's easier to just not dwell on politics in an environment that doesn't support free speech/expression. I do not see how that relates on the notation "of removing politics from games". I am just saying that every act within a society is political and you cannot consciously remove the politics for the act. Especially with cultural creations. It is naturally there not matter how objective you try to be. > 2. The game is not an individual nor does it encompass the political views of all that fall under its logo. Saying that a game or company is taking a stance can only happen if it infringes on those involved to think and choose for themselves. A company and any collaborative venture can have a code of conduct and common values in which they operate. And an individual can choose to be a part of that knowing very well these values and code before hand. Thus any collaborative venture can take a political stance collectively without necessarily infringing on the individuality of the members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeanBB.4268 Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 Where is this logo to be found? I don't see it here, or gw2.com, or arenanet's site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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