Blocki.4931 Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 > @"Glider.5792" said: > > @"Blocki.4931" said: > > I always enjoy buying 10 stacks of chests at 5 silver and selling them next time they update their contents. Price jumps to 15 silver regularly. Good times > > Sharing this kind of stuff will make more people do the same thing (if its true), and due to that less overall profit, if any. On that note, thanks for info, gonna check it out ;) It's hardly a secret :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lelouch Lamperouge.3716 Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > @"Dante.1763" said: > > I..like the chests..and they arent gambling. You /always/ get something, might not be what you wanted, but its always something. I buy keys once or twice month when i buy gems. The materials they give you are a nice little boost too. > > It is gambling. The "you always get sth" argument is a hole in law that allows gaming companies to avoid gambling regulations. It applies to all games, not just GW2. Better call the cops on your local game store selling booster packs of trading cards since it's clearly gambling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 > @"Lelouch Lamperouge.3716" said: > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > @"Dante.1763" said: > > > I..like the chests..and they arent gambling. You /always/ get something, might not be what you wanted, but its always something. I buy keys once or twice month when i buy gems. The materials they give you are a nice little boost too. > > > > It is gambling. The "you always get sth" argument is a hole in law that allows gaming companies to avoid gambling regulations. It applies to all games, not just GW2. > > Better call the cops on your local game store selling booster packs of trading cards since it's clearly gambling. You can trade unwanted cards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante.1763 Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > @"Lelouch Lamperouge.3716" said: > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > @"Dante.1763" said: > > > > I..like the chests..and they arent gambling. You /always/ get something, might not be what you wanted, but its always something. I buy keys once or twice month when i buy gems. The materials they give you are a nice little boost too. > > > > > > It is gambling. The "you always get sth" argument is a hole in law that allows gaming companies to avoid gambling regulations. It applies to all games, not just GW2. > > > > Better call the cops on your local game store selling booster packs of trading cards since it's clearly gambling. > > You can trade unwanted cards. You can sell the unwanted dyes or unwanted weapon skins. You can use all the boosters they drop, you can use /all/ the items they give you wither you wanted them or not, so whats the difference? Do please explain, because saying this is gambling also means that TCG are too, cause you dont know what you will get, even though you always get something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaklex.6308 Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > @"Dante.1763" said: > > I..like the chests..and they arent gambling. You /always/ get something, might not be what you wanted, but its always something. I buy keys once or twice month when i buy gems. The materials they give you are a nice little boost too. > > It is gambling. The "you always get sth" argument is a hole in law that allows gaming companies to avoid gambling regulations. It applies to all games, not just GW2. > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > @"Dante.1763" said: > > > @"cesmode.4257" said: > > > I think a lot of you missed my point and jumped to conclusions. > > > > > > The acquisition of the chests is not in question. Its what is required to open them and the reward for it. As it stands, you need to spend real $$, roll the dice (aha which is gambling) and hope you get something worth while. Sure, its an assumption, but people that have been playing for years might want something other than Large Fangs or Gossamer silk or something. > > > > > > Just suggesting tweaks to the contents, the article says to remove the chests entirely. > > > > The only thing thats even remotely gambling about it is that you dont know what you are gonna get, because you /are/ guaranteed something, might not be what you wanted but you get *SOMETHING* everytime. > > > > Unlike REAL LIFE gambling, in which, you can actually and often do *LOSE* money, get nothing, or worse. > > Don't forget we don't even know chances of dropping certain items. Citizens of western, free world. Meanwhile players from communist China know this, because law made Anet reveal chance %. It's not a hole in the law in the United States, it's the legal definition of gambling as written in the Federal Register, as for knowing the percentages, actually it's not that difficult to figure out roughly what they are, if someone was willing to put in the work....you're arguments don't have a legal leg to stand on in the country where ArenaNet is based(and don't even think the current regime is going to be interested in changing things, especially with how they decided sports betting was legal). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGrimm.5624 Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 I am a gambler and a buyer of keys. Its one way I like to support game development and its a good gift for other GW2 gamers. The problems I am seeing with the chests over time is that they are used to devalue other things in game. Spent 2000 gems on a skin 3 years ago and now its a random drop in the chest that cost you 84 gems. Took a while to acquire full blacklion weapon ticket and acquire a skin to see its a full drop directly in the chest and now you could have just bought it from the TP for 3 gold where it was 300 gold the week before. And before someone says devaluing is good, its only good for the people at the end transactions and it creates ill will for the ones that acquired things earlier and makes them question does that item have any value and should you be buying gems to support the game. And agree with the above, the chests shouldn't contain materials players can acquire in game. If the value of chest was less than directly converting those same gems into gold than the transaction is a loss. I am fine with things being for direct purchase but if they are in the chests too they should be at drop rate that's in line with the direct purchase price. Now as far as the gambling, yes ok with some items being chests only and being in the rare drop category, but its should be a rare occurrence where something is account bound on acquire, players should be able to resell most stuff they find to make more from there chest transaction and also provide items to other people that may not want to gamble on the chests. Anyway, 2 cents from a buyer of keys. Good Gaming! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlippyCheeze.5483 Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 > @"TheGrimm.5624" said: > I am a gambler and a buyer of keys. Its one way I like to support game development and its a good gift for other GW2 gamers. The problems I am seeing with the chests over time is that they are used to devalue other things in game. Spent 2000 gems on a skin 3 years ago and now its a random drop in the chest that cost you 84 gems. How many years did you have the skin before it became available in the box? There is often a price-premium on "now" vs "later". Not that I think you are wrong with most of what you said, just that this example is perhaps weaker than you intended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zet.9130 Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 A thought occurred to me; I've always lamented that GW2 has no loot that excites. There are not one or two drops that players call out in guild chat or tell a friend - just a wall of salvage. But here is the opportunity for Anet to address that situation. BL keys could drop at the average rate as Black Dyes did in GW1. Hopefully that drop rate wouldn't "ruin" the cash cow sales of keys and perhaps prime the pump for additional sale. It is one of the experiences that GW1 had and that GW2 lacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyanchiv.2583 Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 I have, in the past, purchased keys using gems. I have since decided that is not the best use of my gems and now only use keys from weekly key runs and map exploration rewards. I do get a sense of excitement opening chests, and I like to think that excitement pays off more when I'm opening the chest only once or twice a week and I get something good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ugrakarma.9416 Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 > @"Cyanchiv.2583" said: > I have, in the past, purchased keys using gems. I have since decided that is not the best use of my gems and now only use keys from weekly key runs and map exploration rewards. I do get a sense of excitement opening chests, and I like to think that excitement pays off more when I'm opening the chest only once or twice a week and I get something good. Same, Last time i gambled hard was to get balthazar outfit pack. I still buy gems to support the game, but I prefer to leave it accumulated for when something interesting comes up. With the mounts, the frequency with which they have put new skins in the TP was very high, making it better to save the gems and wait for new skins come up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illconceived Was Na.9781 Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > Don't forget we don't even know chances of dropping certain items. Citizens of western, free world. Meanwhile players from communist China know this, because law made Anet reveal chance %. The loot in the two versions of the game isn't comparable. There's a subscription for the China version, whereas there isn't for the NA/EU version. Lots of the things that we take for granted (lootwise) over here don't happen there. I would prefer that ANet make it easier for us to determine drop rates (they mostly don't like to publish them because they like to leave it as an exercise for the player to discover... and that does turn out to be fun for some of us). But... let's not pretend that would make any notable difference to anyone. Most of us care about the anticipation, not about the actual loot. We like the idea that we might beat the odds, whatever they are. The odds for state-sponsored lotteries available to "citizens of western, free world" are published... and it doesn't stop people from buying those tickets, even though the "loot" is worse and the odds are infinitesimal. (Typically, the **total** reward value, including the jackpot, is 50% of the ticket price, so unless you win the jackpot or the near-jackpots, it's a money loser ... i.e. the vast majority of people will spend far more than they earn). tl;dr it's a red herring to worry that ANet doesn't publish drop rates (even if many or most of us wish they would). It won't affect most people's purchasing habits, but it will diminish what little "magic" there is in the process, i.e. lose-lose rather than win-win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 > @"Dante.1763" said: > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > @"Lelouch Lamperouge.3716" said: > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > @"Dante.1763" said: > > > > > I..like the chests..and they arent gambling. You /always/ get something, might not be what you wanted, but its always something. I buy keys once or twice month when i buy gems. The materials they give you are a nice little boost too. > > > > > > > > It is gambling. The "you always get sth" argument is a hole in law that allows gaming companies to avoid gambling regulations. It applies to all games, not just GW2. > > > > > > Better call the cops on your local game store selling booster packs of trading cards since it's clearly gambling. > > > > You can trade unwanted cards. > > You can sell the unwanted dyes or unwanted weapon skins. You can use all the boosters they drop, you can use /all/ the items they give you wither you wanted them or not, so whats the difference? Do please explain, because saying this is gambling also means that TCG are too, cause you dont know what you will get, even though you always get something. Dyes are close to worthless unless you hit a jackpot. Most of BLC stuff in untradable I dare to say - trash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > Don't forget we don't even know chances of dropping certain items. Citizens of western, free world. Meanwhile players from communist China know this, because law made Anet reveal chance %. > > The loot in the two versions of the game isn't comparable. There's a subscription for the China version, whereas there isn't for the NA/EU version. Lots of the things that we take for granted (lootwise) over here don't happen there. > > I would prefer that ANet make it easier for us to determine drop rates (they mostly don't like to publish them because they like to leave it as an exercise for the player to discover... and that does turn out to be fun for some of us). But... let's not pretend that would make any notable difference to anyone. Most of us care about the anticipation, not about the actual loot. We like the idea that we might beat the odds, whatever they are. > > The odds for state-sponsored lotteries available to "citizens of western, free world" are published... and it doesn't stop people from buying those tickets, even though the "loot" is worse and the odds are infinitesimal. (Typically, the **total** reward value, including the jackpot, is 50% of the ticket price, so unless you win the jackpot or the near-jackpots, it's a money loser ... i.e. the vast majority of people will spend far more than they earn). > > tl;dr it's a red herring to worry that ANet doesn't publish drop rates (even if many or most of us wish they would). It won't affect most people's purchasing habits, but it will diminish what little "magic" there is in the process, i.e. lose-lose rather than win-win. I'm not comparing loot. I'm comparing basic feature - show us percantege chance of dropping items. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scud.5067 Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > I'm not comparing loot. I'm comparing basic feature - show us percantege chance of dropping items. +1 Yeah, the only reason not to include the odds is to not put off would be key purchasers gamblers. If Anet showed you the odds, chances are less folks would risk their dime. Bottom line - hiding the odds is not in our, the player's, interests but rather Anets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandlero.6312 Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 I used to buy a lot of keys ($50+ per month) - guess I had the gambling bug. I feel the chests used to be more valuable than they are now. I never got a super-rare drop from a chest, but I at least used to get the unique skins and things that I considered more desirable or valuable. Since the changes to the chest, and the guaranteed drop, at first it seemed ok. One round of chests we got a vendorable item that sold for 1 gold a pop (so part of our chest was a gems-to-gold conversion.) Then we started getting crafting material bags. The minis weren't too bad since they sold good initially. But honestly, overall, the changes to chests have devalued them a lot. Also, it feels like they made the more desirable drops more expensive. The chest do feel like a lot more of a gamble now. We used to get at least 1 skin claim ticket scrap per chest; if not more or at least a completed claim ticket. Now, you get the statues; which at their drop rate, instead of basically 1 claim ticket per 10 chests, its now about 20+ chests to get a single claim ticket. Now I understand their logic behind the black lion statues - guarantees everyone can get stuff eventually. The problem is, they essentially raised the price on everything too (if you only consider acquiring the items via the black lion chests only.) They actually feel a lot more gambling now. The last time I bought keys was when the griffon mini was a guaranteed unlock. From like 50 keys, all I basically got was griffon minis, crafting material bags, and black lion statues. I got nothing rare, unique, or desirable. Everything else was junk. After that I am not buying keys ever again. Oh, and after all of the 100s of chests I've bought after they introduced the black lion statues, I still have only acquired about 30-something of the black lion statues. I never have gotten lucky and gotten large quantity drops of those. So it really feels like, what used to take maybe 50 black lion chests to acquire now takes 200 chests to get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrilana.1396 Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > @"Dante.1763" said: > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > @"Lelouch Lamperouge.3716" said: > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > @"Dante.1763" said: > > > > > > I..like the chests..and they arent gambling. You /always/ get something, might not be what you wanted, but its always something. I buy keys once or twice month when i buy gems. The materials they give you are a nice little boost too. > > > > > > > > > > It is gambling. The "you always get sth" argument is a hole in law that allows gaming companies to avoid gambling regulations. It applies to all games, not just GW2. > > > > > > > > Better call the cops on your local game store selling booster packs of trading cards since it's clearly gambling. > > > > > > You can trade unwanted cards. > > > > You can sell the unwanted dyes or unwanted weapon skins. You can use all the boosters they drop, you can use /all/ the items they give you wither you wanted them or not, so whats the difference? Do please explain, because saying this is gambling also means that TCG are too, cause you dont know what you will get, even though you always get something. > > Dyes are close to worthless unless you hit a jackpot. Most of BLC stuff in untradable I dare to say - trash. And those unwanted cards are likely close to worthless too. The trading cards would fall under gambling based on the definition that you’ve been using. Just because you can sell or trade the prizes, this doesn’t change that as the act of gambling occurred before that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cragga the Eighty Third.60 Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 > @"Bandlero.6312" said: >Oh, and after all of the 100s of chests I've bought after they introduced the black lion statues, I still have only acquired about 30-something of the black lion statues. Just wondering if I misunderstood something here. Every chest has at least one statuette in it, so from hundreds of chests, you must have acquired hundreds of statuettes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klowdy.3126 Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 > @"cesmode.4257" said: > I think a lot of you missed my point and jumped to conclusions. > > The acquisition of the chests is not in question. Its what is required to open them and the reward for it. As it stands, you need to spend real $$, roll the dice (aha which is gambling) and hope you get something worth while. Sure, its an assumption, but people that have been playing for years might want something other than Large Fangs or Gossamer silk or something. > > Just suggesting tweaks to the contents, the article says to remove the chests entirely. I get free keys quite often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGrimm.5624 Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 > @"SlippyCheeze.5483" said: > > @"TheGrimm.5624" said: > > I am a gambler and a buyer of keys. Its one way I like to support game development and its a good gift for other GW2 gamers. The problems I am seeing with the chests over time is that they are used to devalue other things in game. Spent 2000 gems on a skin 3 years ago and now its a random drop in the chest that cost you 84 gems. > > How many years did you have the skin before it became available in the box? There is often a price-premium on "now" vs "later". > > Not that I think you are wrong with most of what you said, just that this example is perhaps weaker than you intended. For this example take the Fused Skin, though this works for any BL skin as well that is re-released as a full drop versus released for additional tickets. Its more of the point that its ok to reward timeliness. I might be odd but I think its cool that people have skins from the year before I started (did beta but then went away for a year) that I wouldn't be able to get. That's their reward for being active at that time that I wasn't. Each time I unlock via a BL chest or Wardrobe unlock something from an event I wasn't in it cheapens that experience and makes me question supporting development via gem sales. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > @"Dante.1763" said: > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > @"Lelouch Lamperouge.3716" said: > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > @"Dante.1763" said: > > > > > > > I..like the chests..and they arent gambling. You /always/ get something, might not be what you wanted, but its always something. I buy keys once or twice month when i buy gems. The materials they give you are a nice little boost too. > > > > > > > > > > > > It is gambling. The "you always get sth" argument is a hole in law that allows gaming companies to avoid gambling regulations. It applies to all games, not just GW2. > > > > > > > > > > Better call the cops on your local game store selling booster packs of trading cards since it's clearly gambling. > > > > > > > > You can trade unwanted cards. > > > > > > You can sell the unwanted dyes or unwanted weapon skins. You can use all the boosters they drop, you can use /all/ the items they give you wither you wanted them or not, so whats the difference? Do please explain, because saying this is gambling also means that TCG are too, cause you dont know what you will get, even though you always get something. > > > > Dyes are close to worthless unless you hit a jackpot. Most of BLC stuff in untradable I dare to say - trash. > > And those unwanted cards are likely close to worthless too. > > The trading cards would fall under gambling based on the definition that you’ve been using. Just because you can sell or trade the prizes, this doesn’t change that as the act of gambling occurred before that. That's okay, if it's gambling it should be restricted. Just like child gambling in games, eg this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGrimm.5624 Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > > tl;dr it's a red herring to worry that ANet doesn't publish drop rates (even if many or most of us wish they would). It won't affect most people's purchasing habits, but it will diminish what little "magic" there is in the process, i.e. lose-lose rather than win-win. Agree, publishing the odds wouldn't impact the decision on to gamble or not. Its what out there to gamble for. The less value in the chest the less reason and less fun. Why do people play Roulette? If you have never hit the straight up number multiple times in a row, its makes no sense. But if you have, its magic from there forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inculpatus cedo.9234 Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 > @"Bandlero.6312" said: > I used to buy a lot of keys ($50+ per month) - guess I had the gambling bug. I feel the chests used to be more valuable than they are now. I never got a super-rare drop from a chest, but I at least used to get the unique skins and things that I considered more desirable or valuable. Since the changes to the chest, and the guaranteed drop, at first it seemed ok. One round of chests we got a vendorable item that sold for 1 gold a pop (so part of our chest was a gems-to-gold conversion.) Then we started getting crafting material bags. The minis weren't too bad since they sold good initially. But honestly, overall, the changes to chests have devalued them a lot. Also, it feels like they made the more desirable drops more expensive. The chest do feel like a lot more of a gamble now. > > We used to get at least 1 skin claim ticket scrap per chest; if not more or at least a completed claim ticket. Now, you get the statues; which at their drop rate, instead of basically 1 claim ticket per 10 chests, its now about 20+ chests to get a single claim ticket. Now I understand their logic behind the black lion statues - guarantees everyone can get stuff eventually. The problem is, they essentially raised the price on everything too (if you only consider acquiring the items via the black lion chests only.) They actually feel a lot more gambling now. > > The last time I bought keys was when the griffon mini was a guaranteed unlock. From like 50 keys, all I basically got was griffon minis, crafting material bags, and black lion statues. I got nothing rare, unique, or desirable. Everything else was junk. After that I am not buying keys ever again. Oh, and after all of the 100s of chests I've bought after they introduced the black lion statues, I still have only acquired about 30-something of the black lion statues. I never have gotten lucky and gotten large quantity drops of those. So it really feels like, what used to take maybe 50 black lion chests to acquire now takes 200 chests to get it. If Black Lion Statuettes are a guaranteed drop in BL Chests (they are), and you've purchased '100s of chests after they introduced the black lion statues', how can you have only acquired '30-something of the black lion statues'? You should have '100s'. If not, a ticket to the CS Team seems to be in order. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarcShriek.5829 Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 There is no evidence that publishing the odds decrease the number of customers. In fact, every video poker machine has to work like a real deck of cards, therefore the odds and payouts of every video poker machine have been published. Despite this, people still play machines that have lower paying odds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 > @"TheGrimm.5624" said: > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > > > > > tl;dr it's a red herring to worry that ANet doesn't publish drop rates (even if many or most of us wish they would). It won't affect most people's purchasing habits, but it will diminish what little "magic" there is in the process, i.e. lose-lose rather than win-win. > > Agree, publishing the odds wouldn't impact the decision on to gamble or not. If that was true, companies wouldn't be afraid to publish this information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrilana.1396 Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > @"TheGrimm.5624" said: > > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > > > > > > > > tl;dr it's a red herring to worry that ANet doesn't publish drop rates (even if many or most of us wish they would). It won't affect most people's purchasing habits, but it will diminish what little "magic" there is in the process, i.e. lose-lose rather than win-win. > > > > Agree, publishing the odds wouldn't impact the decision on to gamble or not. > > If that was true, companies wouldn't be afraid to publish this information. > One problem is that the playerbase is terrible at understanding odds/probabilities. They’ll open a few chests, not get what they feel they should have gotten with a given probability percentage, and then proceed to complain to Anet that the chests are broken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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