After last weeks event, I can't get myself to play WvW anymore...

[sephiroth.4217]

> @"TheQuickFox.3826" said:

> > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > @"hobotnicax.7918" said:

> > > I've been a WvW player since beta weekends and last week has been the most fun I've had since 1st WvW Season on SFR. But now that it's over, I just can't get myself to play WvW anymore and it's only been a couple of days. It should be made permanent, maybe even only on Desert map to get people to actually play there (as the map is a pile of garbage)... a man can dream.

> >

> > i think ebg would be better for no downstate if it is permanent on one map. [...]

>

> No.

 

Yes.

[sephiroth.4217]

> @"Musty.3148" said:

> > @"Menzo.2185" said:

> > Cya!!!!!!

> > Desert = BEST MAP EVER

> > ppl... no downed state CAN'T be permanent. There are several skills/traits related to this. STOP complaining about this on the forum.

> >

>

> Those skills/traits can be changed...

>

 

To give 3k health or 3s invuln on fatal blows....

 

That would be cool

[Cirian.8917]

(edit: moved to another thread)

 

I did really enjoy no downed state, although I think it should exist at times as a buff, like around upgraded objectives you own or around WvW banners like Dragon, Turtle and Centaur. Imagine assassinating a banner bearer and the enemy zerg's downed state access vanishes... oops.

[MUDse.7623]

> @"Cirian.8917" said:

> How about : downed state becomes an objective upgrade, and otherwise you don't have it.

>

> In this system, players would have downed state if they are in the area of a Tier 2+ objective owned by their team. Paper objectives wouldn't give it (so you can't just flip a tower/camp and get access to downed state, you have to hold and upgrade the objective first).

>

> I would also consider attaching downed state to being within the radius of a WvW banner, such as Dragon, Centaur and Turtle, to give attackers a way of getting it. Obviously it would make assassinating a banner bearer a big deal! Without their banners, attackers would have no downed state.

 

an auto upgrade or an improvement like iron guards, hardened gates etc?

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> I find it very amusing that people have played the game for 6 years... and then after 1 week of no downed state its like "nope cant play anymore its not fun!". What where you doing for *six years* then? Not having fun?

>

> When I play now I sometimes see the advantages of no downed state while raging over them ressing, true - and just like we figured out before the event, it makes good players on meta builds far better with far easier fights so *of course* a certain type of people love it

 

Nah, makes good players on unique builds way better as they are harder to counter before the fight begins.

 

I see a SB/scourge/holo...etc and I know at least 85% what they are running as most ppl run meta (imo meta = boring...but that just my opinion)

 

[ProverbsofHell.2307]

Mid-way through the event, I hadn't really enjoyed no downstate... everyone was afraid to push with me and I got quite frustrated with it.

 

However, I had a complete turn around in regards to my opinion, when I joined a squad where people became confident to push with my bubble, and when I finally got into more confident and aggressive fights, I started to have a lot of fun, and now I really miss no-downed state! I would gladly see it return.

[Garrus.7403]

I think most of you see no downed state out of a roamers perspective. Sure its frustating to down someone and you can not finish him because his 3 friends come for help.

But its also frustrating to have your commander sniped before the fight starts and so its over in 1 sec. Also if you attack t3 keep with 20 acs on inner ring and enemy blob who is freecasting on you while you push in, how do you want to take it? Your squad goes down in 3 secs. Its even hard enough to take it with downstate but its impossible with no downstate. So what do you do? You wait until the enemy sleeps? No downstate will just promote more cheesy tactics. More acs, more commanderfocus, more deadeyes, more mirages which are broken btw, less fights overall. Why would ppl attack t3 keeps when they know they will loose the fight 100%. This gives the nightcap servers even a bigger advantage. You downgrade everything from enemy and siege your objectives and the other servers wake up and can do nothing to take it back because its sieged. Permanent no downstate could only be a thing if you change all of wvw. A-net has to nerf acs massively. Also they have to nerf thief and mirage and many other things.

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

> @"Garrus.7403" said:

> I think most of you see no downed state out of a roamers perspective. Sure its frustating to down someone and you can not finish him because his 3 friends come for help.

> But its also frustrating to have your commander sniped before the fight starts and so its over in 1 sec. Also if you attack t3 keep with 20 acs on inner ring and enemy blob who is freecasting on you while you push in, how do you want to take it? Your squad goes down in 3 secs. Its even hard enough to take it with downstate but its impossible with no downstate. So what do you do? You wait until the enemy sleeps? No downstate will just promote more cheesy tactics. More acs, more commanderfocus, more deadeyes, more mirages which are broken btw, less fights overall. Why would ppl attack t3 keeps when they know they will loose the fight 100%. This gives the nightcap servers even a bigger advantage. You downgrade everything from enemy and siege your objectives and the other servers wake up and can do nothing to take it back because its sieged. Permanent no downstate could only be a thing if you change all of wvw. A-net has to nerf acs massively. Also they have to nerf thief and mirage and many other things.

 

tbh ive dont no down week from both ZvZ (as I like the fighting aspect of a zerg...noth the braindead 1 pressing aspect) and roamer/small scale. From a ZvZ aspect it encouraged more strategy (which imo WvW should have) as opposed to who can spam scourge shades the fastest. It separated the bad coms from the good ones (which is needed). Heck, I suggested strats that I Havent seen used in years and they worked...due to acting strategic in war. Only those complaining from a zerg sense are those who are not as coordinated and/or have comms that are scared or bad.

 

Small scale and roamer perspective it was even better. Ive also saw less scourges and thieves and mirages and more reapers, berzerkers and DH's (which were a sight for sore eyes in WvW). Obv I cant speak for every server, however from the week and pairing I was in, this was my experience/observation from all aspects (Zerg/Small Scale/Solo roaming)

[Menzo.2185]

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > @"Menzo.2185" said:

> > > @"Musty.3148" said:

> > > > @"Menzo.2185" said:

> > > > Can you change your mind? lol

> > >

> > > No, can you? And who are you to tell me what I can and cannot talk about? Your points are no more valid than mine. :)

> >

> > The game has water skills, earth skills, flying skills and downed skills.

> > Why would your opinion be important to Anet in order to make them change something that has be there about 6 years?

> > I like the way it is.

> >

>

> No downstate was clearly an experiment. Why did they remove for a week in the first place? To see how the community reacts to the change.

>

 

Did you see the Anet streams? Just for fun!! they said that

[Farout.8207]

Seems a lot of people really like the downstate crutch.

[Garrus.7403]

> @"Farout.8207" said:

> Seems a lot of people really like the downstate crutch.

 

Ye because it makes gw2 unique and different from other mmos.

[Wisty.1867]

I'm in the same boat. I liked the no downed state as the types of builds I run are support/control with damage, mostly things like condi trap ranger with soft and hard CC traited in. While seiging a back wall, I'd lay traps on a perimeter some ways out to "scout" while helping with seige. The damage would be enough to make most consider engaging or blowing important cooldowns to prep for the fight, and if they engaged I had my CC and skills ready to turn and fight. It felt WAY more useful and thoughtful than dropping my traps on a blob/door and hoping for the best.

 

It also served as good practice for the types of builds I need to work on facing. Mostly Thieves and Mesmers, as per usual, but it did show where I excelled and what my weaknesses were in addition to helping me manage my skills better in this setting.

 

All in all, it was fun. I liked it - a lot! I'd love to see it back, and soon.

[Farout.8207]

> @"Garrus.7403" said:

> > @"Farout.8207" said:

> > Seems a lot of people really like the downstate crutch.

>

> Ye because it makes gw2 unique and different from other mmos.

 

To me it rewards bad players and gives an unfair advantage to the larger group but I guess you could call that "unique and different." I personally don't care for it.

[Aeolus.3615]

> @"Garrus.7403" said:

> > @"Farout.8207" said:

> > Seems a lot of people really like the downstate crutch.

>

> Ye because it makes gw2 unique and different from other mmos.

 

Yeah but all those casual helps make the game really bad, and for that we already have the unbalance towards make players buy the new gimmicks called class progression where it should be horizontal but it isnt.

[Aeolus.3615]

"My edit buton is still being punished :("

 

Having downstate can make the game different but, atm is clutch more than an interesting mechanic, need to envolve into something, i would not mind to remove it totally but for that Anet would have the triple of the work to make game run towards direct kill, so downstate will stay, it is easyer to tune it rather than create a new death system IMO.

 

Maybe a hybrd system could be the solution, keep down state make players take more damage while on it, remove rally, add rez skills to make players sacrifice some utility or elite skill for a rez etc..

 

 

[mortrialus.3062]

> @"Menzo.2185" said:

> > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > @"Menzo.2185" said:

> > > > @"Musty.3148" said:

> > > > > @"Menzo.2185" said:

> > > > > Can you change your mind? lol

> > > >

> > > > No, can you? And who are you to tell me what I can and cannot talk about? Your points are no more valid than mine. :)

> > >

> > > The game has water skills, earth skills, flying skills and downed skills.

> > > Why would your opinion be important to Anet in order to make them change something that has be there about 6 years?

> > > I like the way it is.

> > >

> >

> > No downstate was clearly an experiment. Why did they remove for a week in the first place? To see how the community reacts to the change.

> >

>

> Did you see the Anet streams? Just for fun!! they said that

 

And it ended up being more fun than WvW usually is by orders of magnitude.

 

> @"Garrus.7403" said:

> > @"Farout.8207" said:

> > Seems a lot of people really like the downstate crutch.

>

> Ye because it makes gw2 unique and different from other mmos.

 

I think it's inappropriate to call Downstate a crutch. And I would normally be a big defender of it and would have defended it before getting my hands on No Downstate, but without it GW2's combat felt so fun, snappy and decisive without it that I think parts of WvW should be seriously restructured to include No Downstate as a standard mechanic of content.

[Phzt.9864]

There's a large player reduction from mag's perspective. Almost a 40% drop in kills across all of NA/EU (this is the best indicator players have to activity, I know it's not perfect) compared to last week.

 

Downed state was designed for 5-man gameplay. WvW is often times much more than 5-man. It gets increasingly worse as numbers scale beyond that.

[aspirine.5839]

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> WvW is so freaking boring now without the No Downed State.

 

It's blobby as ever.

For instance going up against a terrible guild on GH, Will not name names but it starts with a K :)

Last week we could easily win even though they have a full map blob. Just kill them and they cannot autorez, that is what their whole group is composed for.

Today you can down them just has hard, only to see them up and going in seconds. And down them again, and up they are. It's aggravating.

[Gwaihir.1745]

T2 is pretty abandoned besides fa, alot of the players have no interest in wvw after seeing no downstates potential.

[Hoxworth.7318]

I really do not see why no downstate should come back, Sure it was fun for 1-2 days but its stale for people who actually prefer to not spam 1111 in WvW. Unless you want to play paranoid 24/7 because you have to dodge one shot builds (that's great fun btw) Downstate (and with it Downstate pressure) is a big part of WvW imo.

[bigo.9037]

> @"hobotnicax.7918" said:

> I've been a WvW player since beta weekends and last week has been the most fun I've had since 1st WvW Season on SFR. But now that it's over, I just can't get myself to play WvW anymore and it's only been a couple of days. It should be made permanent, maybe even only on Desert map to get people to actually play there (as the map is a pile of garbage)... a man can dream.

 

I HAVE BEEN SAYING THIS **** FOR YEEARRS.............. PEOPLE FINALLY FUCKING GET IT NOW THAT IT WAS IMPLEMENTED TEMPORARILY HOLYY.......

 

But for real. So often have i talked to people in /tchat or /m or /w about this stuff. most wvw ppl dont listen at all. they think im just an idiot. boohoo but what if you get "ganked" ? its so annoying to run all the way back!

 

I REALLY get their point. DE's with quickness dealing 20k dmg within 1 second on my 2350 armor... its not fun. but downed state HAS to go.

WHY did anet create a system where THE LARGER GROUP GETS MORE EXTRA CHANCES THAN THE SMALL ONE????

 

1v2..... they have more players. so its basically already unfair in terms of numbers in that fight. they should be expected to win. BUT.. if they screw up and make really bad mistakes.... they should lose. but with downed state... that does not happen. THEY, THE 2 PLAYERS... GET AN EXTRA CHANCE............ all they gotta do is press like 2 buttons.

1 button to pop some stability. and then F. thats it. thats all you need. youd have to be extremely bad and have literally 0 coordination to fail that res. that means the first guy should get such a huge hit to his health that his teammate just was not ready for it and couldnt start ressing on time. but it gets worse because of downed skills.

 

The 1 player needs to be SO much better than them that he has to have stability ready for a stomp depending on who he fights, he might even need some kinda dmg invulnerability that prevents him from getting cleaved while stomping like endure pain, stealth, SOS, mirage stuff and shatters. AND he has to be quick enough to do it before his teammate can get him back up. i mean its nearly impossible to pull off a 1v2 against players who have HALF A BRAIN....

they dont need to be good at ALL to win a 1v2 that they dont deserve whatsoever. all they need to do is be able to get ready for their teammate going down and then pressing F.

 

its the same story with 2v4. heck even 2v3 its an issue. you STILL have 2 players ready to insta res while you can either try to cleave them ( which is useless because 2 ppl ressing 1 dude takes like.. 1 second. you cant cleave 2 ppl in 1 second. not happening ) OR hope that you somehow get to stomp them... but even then, what are the odds????

 

and yeaaaa i know im ONLY talking from a roaming perspective but ... the same logic still applies to zergs and blobs. its the eexact same thing. big group full of noobs who dont know what they are doing even tho theyve been in the game for 4 years just tank their way through and all they have to do to win is be ready to press F when their teammates go down..

 

 

ANET.. i can see why you thought downed state was a good idea. i really can. i get the appeal. but the implementation is terrible for wvw and pvp. its TOO EASY...

press F. is that really all? i mean cmon. heck i bet even my younger siblings could learn how to get their teammates up if i made them play this game and still beat people whove played the game for years even tho they never have.

[Traveller.7496]

I enjoyed No downed state a lot. It felt like it rewarded skill instead of numbers. I mean, if you died to a one-shot build, you'll probably die to a one-shot build, no downed state or not. Maybe sometime you have a friend to rez you, but you likely die anyway.

 

I really hope they either keep it in regular rotation (more probable) or - a longshot probably - rework a lot of skills and traits WvW-side only.

[Zero.3871]

> @"bigo.9037" said:

 

> 1v2..... they have more players. so its basically already unfair in terms of numbers in that fight. they should be expected to win. BUT.. if they screw up and make really bad mistakes.... they should lose. but with downed state... that does not happen. THEY, THE 2 PLAYERS... GET AN EXTRA CHANCE............ all they gotta do is press like 2 buttons.

> 1 button to pop some stability. and then F. thats it. thats all you need. youd have to be extremely bad and have literally 0 coordination to fail that res. that means the first guy should get such a huge hit to his health that his teammate just was not ready for it and couldnt start ressing on time. but it gets worse because of downed skills.

>

> The 1 player needs to be SO much better than them that he has to have stability ready for a stomp depending on who he fights, he might even need some kinda dmg invulnerability that prevents him from getting cleaved while stomping like endure pain, stealth, SOS, mirage stuff and shatters. AND he has to be quick enough to do it before his teammate can get him back up. i mean its nearly impossible to pull off a 1v2 against players who have HALF A BRAIN....

> they dont need to be good at ALL to win a 1v2 that they dont deserve whatsoever. all they need to do is be able to get ready for their teammate going down and then pressing F.

 

this

 

 

 

> @"Traveller.7496" said:

> I enjoyed No downed state a lot. It felt like it rewarded skill instead of numbers. I mean, if you died to a one-shot build, you'll probably die to a one-shot build, no downed state or not. Maybe sometime you have a friend to rez you, but you likely die anyway.

>

> I really hope they either keep it in regular rotation (more probable) or - a longshot probably - rework a lot of skills and traits WvW-side only.

 

its absolutely not that big work to Change the traits. every class has just 1 trait specific for reviving someone, so there are just 9 traits to Change in the same way, Maybe get some heal when you get a hit that would kill you. other revive traits or skills have revive just as extra effect. you just need to take that effect out and you are done.

for example warrior banner. grants a lot of boons + revive 100 %. take revive out and you still have the boongain.

 

thats the whole work. cause every class is loosing the same. so it would be still balanced.

 

[Hyper Cutter.9376]

> @"Aeolus.3615" said:

>add rez skills to make players sacrifice some utility or elite skill for a rez etc..

We literally have these already, in both trait and utility skill form, and their existence is ironically one of the biggest stated reasons for people opposing the existence of downstate.

[reikken.4961]

This is the "problem" Riot Games had with URF

 

methinks it's a sign that the game could use some changes rather than an actual problem