GW2: A Community Spoiled by Solo? Help me understand.

[Ayrilana.1396]

There’s nothing wrong with having some content in the game that requires players to team up with one another. Over 90% of the game is solo as it is.

[DragonForHire.3621]

I can't speak for anyone but myself, but the OP asked for help understanding the reluctance to join groups so here a few of my reasons:

 

1) If I spent time trying to group up when I play, I would never get anything done. I rarely get more than an hour at a time, and since I have small children I have to be prepared to drop what I'm doing at any given moment to deal with their various "emergencies".

 

2) By extension, any time when I sit down to play I have no idea how long it will be before I have to quit. I feel like it would be rude of me to force my uncertainties on other players.

(not an actual conversation, for illustrative purposes only)

"Hey lets group up and do this thing!"

"Sure, let's go."

"Oh wait, kid's out of bed again, gotta run."

"WTH?"

 

3) Another issue is simply the fact that I am not capable of paying attention to the chat window and combat at the same time. My brain just can't do it. I've tried in multiple games. It doesn't work. Adding in trying to *type* anything on top of that is just right out. Coordinating a group without that ability just seems...futile.

[mortrialus.3062]

GW2 has been a game that struggles with feeling like you're Playing Alone Together. Because grouping together is easy and automatic, because there's no competition for mobs, because most things in the open world are soloable and only scale up, you don't really have to do anything to initiate group play so it doesn't feel like group play.

 

Compare the leveling experience of Vanilla WoW. There were open world areas that were infested with Elite Mobs and quests with good rewards frequently asked you to go there. So you had to manually go into chat and look for assistance with that area. Heck, this happened frequently with areas that didn't have elite mobs. If a quest wanted you to kill X enemies, if you saw a friendly player in that area already killing them you'd initiate a party so you aren't competing over kills. Yeah, competing for mobs and drops sucked, but partying up meant you didn't have to compete for them.

 

And it was the same with dungeons, too. If you wanted to group up for a dungeon, you had to literally talk to people to form a group. And in a lot of ways, that's inconvenient and looking for a party feels like busy work. But when you got that group, and if people were good, if the run went smoothly, you'd add them to your friends list to do more group content with them later more quickly and with less time waiting around. I think the way Vanilla WoW moved your through both solo content and group content was genius.

 

Sadly, there's a lot of top down systemic reasons why GW2's grouping often feels really lonely for lack of better term. It isn't until raids were a thing where group content, having to look for a quality group of players, to form statics and stuff.

 

And even in the modern era, WoW isn't the way it used to be anymore. Now all dungeon grouping is through LFR and done automatically. Open world questing never presents a challenge what so ever. I don't think group quests are even a thing anymore. When you make something super effortless and inconvenient, it's something you can't ever undo. GW2's world would feel more massive if you actually had to travel from place to place physically. But they can never get rid of the waypoints at this point. WoW can never get rid of LFR and flying mounts. Because once you make things too easy, you can't undo it without your player base revolting.

 

This is one of those things that's never going to change about the game and something you get used to over time. But it's fascinating to speculate that if this issue with feel was more widely apparent during concepting GW2, what could the developers have done to make the game and group content outside raids feel more involved and substantial while promoting more socialization the way older MMORPGs did without sacrificing the pick up and play nature of GW2.

[LucianDK.8615]

Automated grouping is far better. I well remember trying for hours to assemble a group for instances back in TBC and vanilla. And if the tank dcs or leaves, then back to the city to find a replacement. No thank you. People doesnt know how good they have it.

[Dante.1763]

I still remember the nightmare of looking for a monk in EotN or for hard mode dungeons in GW1...im glad we can do most things by ourselves...

[milo.7198]

Personally I view the grouping thing this way (sorry, kinda long).

First the pedantic. Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game does not demand grouping , even in its name. It simply means that there are a lot of living people online in the same game at the same time. It does not mean grouping is a requirement. That has been inferred because of the earliest games to employ this moniker put the bulk of the content behind 'groups only' barriers. Just like the Ranger is interpreted incorrectly. Ranger was a title originally given to explorers and nomads because they would Range far and wide. Why people assume it means that the professions main weapons must be ranged weapons, I don't know for sure.

With that out of the way, my personal view. I like the amazing mix of things in Guild Wars. First, it's not your typical elf, dwarf, human game. I also like that the most important parts of the story can be solo'd. Why? Because between work and family, I'm on call nearly 24/7. Also, I've had bad experiences with being kicked from groups because I was playing the wrong class or because the group didn't announce it was speed clearing and I 'wasted time' watching the cinematics. Many of the past MMOs, like Everquest and WoW hid the story behind group content. In each of those games I never experienced the story. Like I said, I rarely know how long I can play before I have to quit, so I don't group often.

Guild Wars 2 is great for people like me. I avoid Fractals and Dungeons and Raids because I don't want to disappear from an organized group and mess up all that planning. Dynamic events, however; allow me to play with others but I can leave instantly, when needed, without ruining everyone else's game and wasting their time.

Being solo-able also allows me to play at my pace. If i want to linger in a particular instance to admire the work put into it, i can. Unlike many of the achievements, I'm not forced to race to complete content before the bulk of the players devour the new stuff and move to a different zone. Let's be honest. Some of the achievements become extremely hard to get people for after a couple of weeks after new content release.

I've seen a lot of people compare this game to a sports team. 'Why bother if you're not going to throw the ball to someone else' or 'Why bother if you are not going to run down field with everyone else?' I don't see it that way. I see if from the point of view of the audience of said sports teams. As an audience member, i can be part of an organized cheer or not without ruining it for the people who join in. I can go with friends to enjoy the game, or enjoy it just as much by myself. I can talk to the person in the next seat, but I can also sit quietly and not be seen as rude. Guild War 2 is like that. I can solo or I can group and enjoy the same content. Again, remember, MMO does not mean Can Only Play In Groups. It simply means that there are more real people interacting with the game than just you and couple of friends, like in a single player/co-op game.

[blambidy.3216]

To be honest I don’t understand the people who complain about wanting it to be solo. This in an mmorpg. Dungeons are meant to be partied up. FrActals, raids, hp hunting. Now everyone wants the game to be super easy but the purpose of the game was to do everything with a community. Not to be alone.

 

Gw2 is a great community. And we will help anyone who asks. I have asked before and was given great help when I first joined. I honestly do not understand why people want the game to be easier and finish alone.

 

As a person we want to overcome things. When I first started and struggled with things. I didn’t yell at arenanet, all I thought about was, I want to get better. So instead of making the devs take years to compensate how hard the game is. Everyone should instead ask for help, read guides. Take time in crafting, fractals and raids. Get involved in guilds, watch videos. And most of all have fun. If the game was easy in all things, this game would truly be boring.

 

It’s no different then shooters. Progress, learn recoil, learn places to stay, places to never stand or run through. But make the devs make the game easier? No. Csgo, rainbow six. All team work. So hopefully people would like to do team work.

 

Just take your time and have fun. And ask people in map, especially lions arch. Someone will gladly help. And you won’t be stuck on wanting arenanet to make the game soloable. Tbh hot mobs and hps and map journey are Better then pof. Which pof is by far more soloable then hot.

 

 

[Dante.1763]

> @"blambidy.3216" said:

> To be honest I don’t understand the people who complain about wanting it to be solo. This in an mmorpg. Dungeons are meant to be partied up. FrActals, raids, hp hunting. Now everyone wants the game to be super easy but the purpose of the game was to do everything with a community. Not to be alone.

>

> Gw2 is a great community. And we will help anyone who asks. I have asked before and was given great help when I first joined. I honestly do not understand why people want the game to be easier and finish alone.

>

> As a person we want to overcome things. When I first started and struggled with things. I didn’t yell at arenanet, all I thought about was, I want to get better. So instead of making the devs take years to compensate how hard the game is. Everyone should instead ask for help, read guides. Take time in crafting, fractals and raids. Get involved in guilds, watch videos. And most of all have fun. If the game was easy in all things, this game would truly be boring.

>

> It’s no different then shooters. Progress, learn recoil, learn places to stay, places to never stand or run through. But make the devs make the game easier? No. Csgo, rainbow six. All team work. So hopefully people would like to do team work.

>

> Just take your time and have fun. And ask people in map, especially lions arch. Someone will gladly help. And you won’t be stuck on wanting arenanet to make the game soloable. Tbh hot mobs and hps and map journey are Better then pof. Which pof is by far more soloable then hot.

>

>

 

To you: I personally hated the fact i had to rely on other people to complete the HoTs hero points, i still am annoyed they are champions. I despise asking for help, and it makes me feel good on a personal level when i do something by myself. Some things i agree should require a group: map completion, and the personal story arent among them to me.

[blambidy.3216]

> @"Dante.1763" said:

> > @"blambidy.3216" said:

> > To be honest I don’t understand the people who complain about wanting it to be solo. This in an mmorpg. Dungeons are meant to be partied up. FrActals, raids, hp hunting. Now everyone wants the game to be super easy but the purpose of the game was to do everything with a community. Not to be alone.

> >

> > Gw2 is a great community. And we will help anyone who asks. I have asked before and was given great help when I first joined. I honestly do not understand why people want the game to be easier and finish alone.

> >

> > As a person we want to overcome things. When I first started and struggled with things. I didn’t yell at arenanet, all I thought about was, I want to get better. So instead of making the devs take years to compensate how hard the game is. Everyone should instead ask for help, read guides. Take time in crafting, fractals and raids. Get involved in guilds, watch videos. And most of all have fun. If the game was easy in all things, this game would truly be boring.

> >

> > It’s no different then shooters. Progress, learn recoil, learn places to stay, places to never stand or run through. But make the devs make the game easier? No. Csgo, rainbow six. All team work. So hopefully people would like to do team work.

> >

> > Just take your time and have fun. And ask people in map, especially lions arch. Someone will gladly help. And you won’t be stuck on wanting arenanet to make the game soloable. Tbh hot mobs and hps and map journey are Better then pof. Which pof is by far more soloable then hot.

> >

> >

>

> To you: I personally hated the fact i had to rely on other people to complete the HoTs hero points, i still am annoyed they are champions. I despise asking for help, and it makes me feel good on a personal level when i do something by myself. Some things i agree should require a group: map completion, and the personal story arent among them to me.

 

That’s great that you need to give yourself a pat on the back for doing things alone. However somethings should stay group effort. To be honest I only had that problem within the beginning of playing. But playing much longer with people, I can just ask them and we can all go ahead and do it. It’s just that easy.

 

 

[juhani.5361]

> @"Dante.1763" said:

> > @"blambidy.3216" said:

> > To be honest I don’t understand the people who complain about wanting it to be solo. This in an mmorpg. Dungeons are meant to be partied up. FrActals, raids, hp hunting. Now everyone wants the game to be super easy but the purpose of the game was to do everything with a community. Not to be alone.

> >

> > Gw2 is a great community. And we will help anyone who asks. I have asked before and was given great help when I first joined. I honestly do not understand why people want the game to be easier and finish alone.

> >

> > As a person we want to overcome things. When I first started and struggled with things. I didn’t yell at arenanet, all I thought about was, I want to get better. So instead of making the devs take years to compensate how hard the game is. Everyone should instead ask for help, read guides. Take time in crafting, fractals and raids. Get involved in guilds, watch videos. And most of all have fun. If the game was easy in all things, this game would truly be boring.

> >

> > It’s no different then shooters. Progress, learn recoil, learn places to stay, places to never stand or run through. But make the devs make the game easier? No. Csgo, rainbow six. All team work. So hopefully people would like to do team work.

> >

> > Just take your time and have fun. And ask people in map, especially lions arch. Someone will gladly help. And you won’t be stuck on wanting arenanet to make the game soloable. Tbh hot mobs and hps and map journey are Better then pof. Which pof is by far more soloable then hot.

> >

> >

>

> To you: I personally hated the fact i had to rely on other people to complete the HoTs hero points, i still am annoyed they are champions. I despise asking for help, and it makes me feel good on a personal level when i do something by myself. Some things i agree should require a group: map completion, and the personal story arent among them to me.

 

Totally agree. I love helping, but I hate asking people for help. Things like map completion and hero points are intended for personal progression. By design and intent, they _shouldn't_ require a group to complete simply for consistency's sake. I'm glad Anet reversed course in designing PoF maps. Most of the hero points are difficult to solo but doable, unlike HoT.

[Poseidon.3852]

For all the ones that will read this comment, I must explain one thing, again: I find GW2 amazing (also the single-player experience)! Most of the community too! My post is aimed towards that part of the community that COMPLAINS about group content or more difficult content... in an MMORPG. It is aimed at those people that tend to complain about PvP "why can't I win 1vs1 against any profession as any other?" and refuse to play as a team. It is to those people who refuse to do Fractals & Raids, BUT COMPLAIN that they actually have to group up with a competent group and play, god beware, in a PARTY and coordinate. It is fine by me if you choose to opt out of it, but why complain? It would be also fine if that group who complain was just a minor one, but it doesn't seem so to me. Lastly, more than to change ANYTHING, I want just to understand, because for me it seems that EVERYTHING is different about the community and the stance of people towards MMOs in general than what it was 10 years ago. I just want to understand all those silent types, never uttering a word in chat, ignoring when asked to group up, ignoring attempts to coordinate in PvP and so onm and why would people come and play an MMO and complain about staple characteristics of an MMORPG. Like I already said, for me, it is like if somebody would like a chocolate cake but intentionally buys a hamburger instead and complains that it is not chocolaty at all... but in all this, I still realize that I am ignorant of how the industry and community evolved over the years so I made this discussion to inquire about it. Sorry for the title. It is a little bit offensive, but it was written to incite responses... which seemed successful enough. Thank you all for your kind (and less kind) answers, I see things more clearly now.

 

> @"Randulf.7614" said:

 

I fully agree that it is not how an MMO function and should function... I, personally (without wanting everybody to abid to my opinion) would rather have a slow progression as an adult devoided of time in a "proper" MMORPG focused on collaborative achievements than a faster single-player experience, because I would simply choose a single-player game if I wanted that. That thing is which baffles me. In my opinion, most single-player games have the superior single-player game experience compared to most MMORPGs with single-player aspects.

 

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> @"otto.5684" said:

 

I can understand now, thanks to the thing brought up about mobile gaming and target groups, that the arrow went from developers incorporating more and more single-player in their games over the years, followed by single-player minded gamers coming to the game, not the other way around. That's a shame, that the industry went down that road because there was and is a huge part focused on the single-player experience (and I LOVE IT!), but if it completely seeps into the MMO part of the industry, that will ultimately destroy diversity... Or is the goal to make games that do all, so the only difference will be franchise and setting and graphical style (design) in the (possibly far) future?

 

> @"Segrrock.8041" said:

> @"Endless Soul.5178" said:

> @"milo.7198" said:

 

Thanks! You all made me realize why a lot of single player gamers play MMOs. Thank you for not complaining about the group content in an MMO! Oh, I just perceived that the people actually complaining about group content and such is not an entirely "minor" vocal group in GW2. But be it minor or major, (or superior ;) ), I would like to understand that part of the community dearly.

 

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

 

I can understand that perfectly, being very busy myself... but why not focus on single-player games instead? Also, thanks for giving me answers and understanding what I was asking about. Also, players like you (and me for the most part, like I said I am not as free as I used to be in my teens either), should be welcome... as long as they do not complain about content where you actually need to group up and invest time... in an MMORPG.

 

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> @"blambidy.3216" said:

 

It is what it is and I agree with you on all points. However, I made peace with what GW2 is and I am quite fine with it... the community, that is not fine with the pieces of content that jump out of the rule is what baffles me since this is an MMORPG after all, isn't it? I must say that I would love a game that feels like vanilla WoW when it comes down to the community aspects and grouping up, mainly because I enjoy spending time alone. I have no social anxiety and have flourishing relationships and career, but in general, it makes me really tired to be around people a lot, that's why I used to turn to MMO communities in my teens to "feel part of something". As I said, I went on a nearly 10-year hiatus from that to build my life in what I want and found, after I achieved most other things, that I really crave to have more "me-time" and be part of an MMORPG community again. I came back, only to find out that most MMOs are now for players who do not want to be part of a community and make effort, but who see MMOs just as a more complicated Candy Crush game... you know, something you play on the fly, or sometimes or just to relieve stress, not to be part of it. Not to make amazing stories and so on. I was an avid role-player and Dungeons & Dragons tabletop enthusiast, and I found that GW2 is so perfect for roleplaying, better than WoW in my opinion, yet you hardly ever see more serious role-players in the world, and I think that this is the norm across all MMORPGs today. The main base are not players who love RPGs... the main base are players who just want to relieve a little stress after whatever else they have been doing in their life at the end of the day. While I find that fine, I fear that "niche" games that are made for roleplaying enthusiasts and something like Vanilla WoW will die out forever. Until maybe proper full-dive VR comes (if it ever comes)...

 

 

> @"juhani.5361" said:

> > @"Pusseidon.9534" said:

>

> > Now, I found that GW2 has an excellent community with great guilds and is full of helpful player. Naturally, not everybody is like that (and is not expected to!), but a lot are, which is great.

> >

> > However, it may be just me, maybe I only see what I want to see or whatever, but it seems that a major part of the player-base is complaining A LOT (or mostly) about content not being solo-able, or actually needing group coordination as opposed to just a gathering of people in one place.

> >

> > Like I said, I haven't been part of an MMO community since early 2010, and I have no clue how and in what ways the world has changed. Back then. not solo-able content was the norm, i.e. you expected that you HAD TO group up, you expected that you had to coordinate with your party to clear anything major... and that is actually why you played stuff. You chose to play an MMORPG because you wanted to group up to clear content; otherwise, you would just play an Ego-Shooter or whatever. But first of all, 80% of all Guild Wars 2 content is solo-able or doable without any group coordination. Yet, a seemingly major part of the community seems to complain about A LOT about the 20% of the game that is not...

>

> Oh, hey look, it's another "attack the solo players" thread! Woo hoo! Haven't had one of those in a while. Sorry to be a little snarky, but as a solo player, I'm getting pretty sick of being attacked for having different preferences than group players. This isn't a new "inquiry" by any stretch of the imagination, but it's a popular one in pretty much every forum in every MMORPG.

 

It's a "attack the solo-players who complain about group content in an MMORPG" thread. Not a "attack the players who choose to opt out of group content without complaining about it" thread.

>

> If you haven't been a part of any MMO community since 2010, chances are your information and experience is _far_ out of date. Solo play has gotten more prevalent as 1) the MMO population has aged and no longer has time for formal grouping and b) as the more casual focus of most games, including WoW, has made the solo audience expand. It's a shift in game development and playstyle as the audience's lifestyles have changed. Companies go to where the money is if they want to be successful. Solo players have money.

 

Yep, it is outdated, thus the thread. Sure they have, can't disagree with that, but what about the niche for which MMORPGs where once aimed at? Not everything can, or should be, casual. But that is honestly another thing completely, because I am fine with what GW2 is, I was just baffled about parts of the community that I perceived (and still do) as not just a minor vocal group.

 

> >

> > Could somebody help me to understand this and how the times have changed? I fail to even possibly fathom this behavior in an MMORPG. I mean... if you want a single-player experience, what the heck are you doin' in an MMO? And then you even have the audacity to complain about a staple mark of MMORPGs?! Why? What is wrong with you?

>

> I'm going to try to step back from the hostility in your words to answer your question. What am I doing here? I'm making do with what games are being made these days. I'm a AAA-ish single-player CRPG addict with some hack'n'slash tendencies. I started gaming with Dungeon Siege 1 and shifted into games with more serious storylines, like the Bioware stable. There hasn't been a decent AAA CRPG released since ME:A, and there aren't many more on the horizon. So, what's left? More solo-friendly online games. I don't like the trend toward super indie games with pixel graphics in the genre, so I play the closest thing I can find.

>

> Why do I have the "audacity to complain?" I'm a paying customer just like everyone else here. I have a right to voice my needs. If Anet or other MMO companies choose not to listen, they lose my money. Simple. Fortunately, Anet kind of listens.

 

Well, I did say sorry for the rant, tho. I see. That's unfortunate.

 

> >

> > Sorry for the rant, but I feel disconnected and more than that, I fear that the devs of ANet (and any other current or future MMO) will listen more to that player-base and that every future MMO will just turn into a glorified single-player experience with optional grouping up. That is a really scary thought for me.

>

> If it's so scary, why haven't you been a part of an MMO community since 2010? I'm curious, not attacking. It seems strange to me that you're worried about changes when you've been out of the loop. People still group in MMOs. It just isn't as prevalent. So you have to find your friends and people who share your gaming preferences. It might be a little harder now, but the way you prefer to play isn't dead. Join a guild or-- in this game's case-- five. You'll probably find a few souls who share your preferences.

>

 

I've been busy with life in general. I came from a poor family, so I went abroad to work a 70 hrs waiter job that paid well to get save money for university. After my bachelor's degree in physics, I went to make a freelance business in a totally unrelated industry to my field, while I pursued my masters. All the while focusing a lot on my other hobbies besides gaming. I saw half the world (quite literally) in those years and had some of the most fulfilling relationships in my life. Now I want to focus on passive income and live humbly with one of the most loving persons I have ever met and a few friends. I realized that being around people, except when I volunteer for social work and helping the ones in need or in academic work, is tiring me more than anything else, even tho I have no social anxiety whatsoever. I enjoy time alone, with books and games, and I hate "social games" that people paly of status and power, "taboo" topics and so on more than anything, while disagreeing with a lot of values which the modern world holds true, but I also long to feel like a part of a strong community so I turned to MMOs again. Therefore, I play to become a part of a community, not just to relieve a little stress at the end of the day or just play. Oh... and I absolutely hate and despise social media.

 

I hope that satisfies your curiosity.

 

> Just remember, as little as you understand us solo folks, we're helping to fund your games and keep them afloat.

>

> >

> > I mean, raids are supposed to be super-hard and have story and substance to them, fractals need coordination and be somehow gated, PvP requires coordination and not every spec is supposed to be able to go 1vs1 with every other spec (this incentives group play!). If every profession can do everything, that was is your place in a party? How do you coordinate with others and for what reason if you just have to dish out a lot of DPS with no regards to playing with your team? There needs to be some structure, some NEED to rely on your team and others and play coordinated and enjoy it, for a good MMORPG.

>

> Well, if you're raiding, you won't have to worry about us solo players ;) Seriously, find some guilds who meet your needs. There's a lot of game tailored to your preferences-- dungeons, fractals, raids. There are huge meta events that require coordination in some of the expansion maps (HoT specifically).

 

Thanks! I already did. I have a great guild with an amazing discord and it is quite fun. I was taken aback by how vocal or how big the part of the community is that complains about group content in an MMO and I couldn't grasp it all and "What happened?" ... It is like when you come to your hometown that you haven't seen in 10 years and see that everything has changed. That caffe you loved so much and which played great music is totally renovated now and plays some horrendous pop-music, kids don't enjoy their time in the park anymore in the same way you and your friends used to and you feel like you just don't understand the world anymore. I know that times change, and I can accept it... but not just like that! I need data, I need answers, I need information and elaborate explanations before I can accept anything, therefore the thread. Thank you for taking the time to answer it in such a manner. Cheers!

 

 

 

 

[otto.5684]

@"Pusseidon.9534" I think there is little about MMOs that is really MMOs anymore. It seems that all games involving third person characters are diverging. I mean take a look at any recent action game or RPGs:

 

1. They have various skills, typically tied to weapons.

2. They typically have some sort of utility skill on a CD.

3. They have gear.

4. They have level progression.

5. They have skill trees.

6. Most of them have multiplayer.

 

Action games and RPGs have been fishing in the MMO territory for a while and vice versa, where the MMOs have been adding story and solo content. Even gun games have jumped on the same train. This is why we have Destiny, the Division, Warframe and Anthem coming soon.

 

Outside of racing and sports games, it seems games have been more focused on designing a "world" then slamming in all MMO progression template, solo content and story. Then add multiplayer (PvP, PvE or both).

 

Is this good or bad? I dunno. Reality is games are becoming less about unique game play and much more about creating massive worlds to explore.

[juhani.5361]

> @"Pusseidon.9534" said:

> For all the ones that will read this comment, I must explain one thing, again: I find GW2 amazing (also the single-player experience)! Most of the community too! My post is aimed towards that part of the community that COMPLAINS about group content or more difficult content... in an MMORPG.

 

Okay, let me break this down a little. There are a couple of things going on that you're agglomerating into one thing here.

 

When people complain about difficulty, they're talking about solo story instances. The difficulty spikes from the personal story to several of the expansions to the Living World content are massive. Most of the boss fights require massive amounts of dexterity, etc. This is content that is intended to be run solo-- not in a party. Personally, as I'm getting older and my reflexes are dying, I'm finding my skill level just skirts the edge of a number of these instances in the expansion content while Anet keeps ramping up the difficulty and the weird mechanics. Many other games have added difficulty settings for their most recent instanced solo content-- SWTOR is a good example. You can choose your difficulty, and the rewards adjust accordingly. Since story instance content is a lot more difficult than the open world areas that surround it, us reflex-challenged folks would like to achieve a little more parity and maybe be able to play some of this stuff without screaming and ripping out our hair.

 

Another problem is what happens on overflow maps in some of the expansions. PoF, especially, is beset by this. Tons of events happen constantly, but they don't scale to the map's lower population. So you get a lot going on that gets in the way of your exploration, but you can't finish the event yourself and there's no one else around to help you end it. Mob density is out of control. Even if you had someone to group with, you'd still have trouble mowing down every single thing that can dismount you. That's because the density doesn't scale to map population either. Populated maps are bustling and mobs are manageable when the instance is full. When it isn't, though, you have problems. And that's not fun.

 

>It is to those people who refuse to do Fractals & Raids, BUT COMPLAIN that they actually have to group up with a competent group and play, god beware, in a PARTY and coordinate. It is fine by me if you choose to opt out of it, but why complain? It would be also fine if that group who complain was just a minor one, but it doesn't seem so to me.

 

Sorry, but who is this, exactly? If people are refusing to raid or do fractals, why do they need to be in a party? I guess I'm not understanding who you're talking about, exactly. I've never heard of anyone who wanted to do a fractal refusing to group. I also haven't really seen any requests for soloable fractals, either. Dungeons, maybe, but that's apparently "dying" content-- and there is precedent in other MMOs to have equivalent options. SWTOR's solo flashpoints, for example.

 

>Lastly, more than to change ANYTHING, I want just to understand, because for me it seems that EVERYTHING is different about the community and the stance of people towards MMOs in general than what it was 10 years ago. I just want to understand all those silent types, never uttering a word in chat, ignoring when asked to group up, ignoring attempts to coordinate in PvP and so onm and why would people come and play an MMO and complain about staple characteristics of an MMORPG.

 

Okey doke, this one's going to be interesting to address because a lot of the problem comes with GW2's crappy privacy settings. It's also due to shifting etiquette when it comes to grouping. I don't think anyone's really "at fault" here, per se.

 

1) The silent thing. I have nothing to say in chat, so I don't. If I do and I'm fighting something, I wait until I'm done and safe before I try to click through all the chat options. JMHO, the whole "say/map" thing feels convoluted and I mess up frequently. In real life, I'm an introvert. I know more people than I can keep up communicating with so adding more in a video game is not something I want to do. I'm already crappy enough at doing the reach out and touch someone thing with people I know in meatspace.

 

2) Grouping etiquette has kind of changed. Invites out of the blue aren't usually welcome by a lot of players as you're running in the open world (or in other games, either: this is a common complaint in SWTOR and SWL too, I believe). In most games, it's polite to whisper first before inviting someone to join your party. Game mechanics already allow you to help or be helped by passing players, so the additional formality of having a group isn't required. A lot of times, it isn't desired. Personally, I dread that little squeaky hinge sound. Which leads to the next part:

 

3) There aren't any options to allow those who don't want to group to opt out of squad invites. So, if you're running around doing your solo thing, and someone wants to join you, you can't preemptively keep them from inviting you to a group. It would solve a lot of pain if you could opt out of those kinds of annoyances, like grouping spam or guild spam. But you can't. I'd love to see some granularity in privacy controls so that both social you and solo me won't bother each other. Settings like that are found in most current games-- I know SWTOR and SWL both featured that kind of social control. Not sure about ESO.

 

>Like I already said, for me, it is like if somebody would like a chocolate cake but intentionally buys a hamburger instead and complains that it is not chocolaty at all... but in all this, I still realize that I am ignorant of how the industry and community evolved over the years so I made this discussion to inquire about it. Sorry for the title. It is a little bit offensive, but it was written to incite responses... which seemed successful enough. Thank you all for your kind (and less kind) answers, I see things more clearly now.

 

Ah, the Molotov cocktail approach. Well, it seems to work wonders :bleep_bloop: *shrug* Part of the problem I'm seeing is not just that you're getting culture shock, but that you haven't encountered some of the problems yet that you're attributing to solo players. Take a little time to experience and digest first because some of the "tone it down" requests aren't just from solo players, but from people who have to deal with empty expansion maps. The second you hit one, you'll see what a lot of the complaints are about.

 

> It is what it is and I agree with you on all points. However, I made peace with what GW2 is and I am quite fine with it... the community, that is not fine with the pieces of content that jump out of the rule is what baffles me since this is an MMORPG after all, isn't it? I must say that I would love a game that feels like vanilla WoW when it comes down to the community aspects and grouping up, mainly because I enjoy spending time alone.

 

Have you played WoW recently? I gave it a shot a couple of months ago to see if I could actually make it through the lvl 20 trial. It's all solo players, just like GW2. Chat's more trollish and childishly active, but that's about it. You might see someone partying up here and there, but for the most part everyone's soloing the starter areas.

 

> > @"juhani.5361" said:

> > > @"Pusseidon.9534" said:

> >

> > > Now, I found that GW2 has an excellent community with great guilds and is full of helpful player. Naturally, not everybody is like that (and is not expected to!), but a lot are, which is great.

> > >

> > > However, it may be just me, maybe I only see what I want to see or whatever, but it seems that a major part of the player-base is complaining A LOT (or mostly) about content not being solo-able, or actually needing group coordination as opposed to just a gathering of people in one place.

 

That's because there are two major audiences that I see here: us casual carebear types who love to relax and chill, and the more hardcore raiding/PvP/meta fractal sorts. We tend to have opposite requests because our needs are so different. Unfortunately that makes designing expansions that cater to the entire population difficult for Anet. I don't envy them, honestly ;)

> > >

> > > Like I said, I haven't been part of an MMO community since early 2010, and I have no clue how and in what ways the world has changed. Back then. not solo-able content was the norm, i.e. you expected that you HAD TO group up, you expected that you had to coordinate with your party to clear anything major... and that is actually why you played stuff. You chose to play an MMORPG because you wanted to group up to clear content; otherwise, you would just play an Ego-Shooter or whatever. But first of all, 80% of all Guild Wars 2 content is solo-able or doable without any group coordination. Yet, a seemingly major part of the community seems to complain about A LOT about the 20% of the game that is not...

 

The market's totally different now. A lot of that is because there are fewer and fewer games that aren't catering to specific niches. A good general interest game is getting harder and harder to find. As are decent single player games. Take a little browse around MassivelyOp to get a snapshot of what the industry and audience look like these days. The gap between audience and developer seems to be wider than ever.

>

> It's a "attack the solo-players who complain about group content in an MMORPG" thread. Not a "attack the players who choose to opt out of group content without complaining about it" thread.

 

That's not what was in your rant. And still isn't from the block of text I addressed above. No one needs to be attacked or made to feel unwelcome. TBH, the entire tone of that initial post was off-putting to say the least. Exclusionary. Incendiary. Counter to the spirit of general cooperation and welcomeness that is a big hallmark of the GW2 community, whether the member be silent or social.

 

> Yep, it is outdated, thus the thread. Sure they have, can't disagree with that, but what about the niche for which MMORPGs where once aimed at? Not everything can, or should be, casual. But that is honestly another thing completely, because I am fine with what GW2 is, I was just baffled about parts of the community that I perceived (and still do) as not just a minor vocal group.

 

Seriously, take a look at some of MassivelyOp's archives. There's a lot of interesting stuff about guilds in general, and some of the comments from regulars can be enlightening. Being a lone wolf is getting to be more and more common.

 

> Sorry for the rant, but I feel disconnected and more than that, I fear that the devs of ANet (and any other current or future MMO) will listen more to that player-base and that every future MMO will just turn into a glorified single-player experience with optional grouping up. That is a really scary thought for me.

 

FWIW, there are some projects in the works and in the wilds that require hardcore grouping. Solo players definitely aren't the intended audience for a lot of the stuff that's in the works. I'm dreading when games like GW2 reach their end, because none of what's in the pipeline is friendly for my playstyle. [see Saga of Lucimia (sp?), Shroud of the Avatar, etc.]. Heck, look at Bioware's recent project, Anthem, or Sea of Thieves. Open world, online, game as service, difficult to play solo-- these are the new trends even in the "single player" marketplace.

 

> I've been busy with life in general. I came from a poor family, so I went abroad to work a 70 hrs waiter job that paid well to get save money for university. After my bachelor's degree in physics, I went to make a freelance business in a totally unrelated industry to my field, while I pursued my masters. All the while focusing a lot on my other hobbies besides gaming. I saw half the world (quite literally) in those years and had some of the most fulfilling relationships in my life. Now I want to focus on passive income and live humbly with one of the most loving persons I have ever met and a few friends. I realized that being around people, except when I volunteer for social work and helping the ones in need or in academic work, is tiring me more than anything else, even tho I have no social anxiety whatsoever. I enjoy time alone, with books and games, and I hate "social games" that people paly of status and power, "taboo" topics and so on more than anything, while disagreeing with a lot of values which the modern world holds true, but I also long to feel like a part of a strong community so I turned to MMOs again. Therefore, I play to become a part of a community, not just to relieve a little stress at the end of the day or just play. Oh... and I absolutely hate and despise social media.

>

> I hope that satisfies your curiosity.

 

Thanks for the insight. :)

 

> I mean, raids are supposed to be super-hard and have story and substance to them, fractals need coordination and be somehow gated, PvP requires coordination and not every spec is supposed to be able to go 1vs1 with every other spec (this incentives group play!). If every profession can do everything, that was is your place in a party? How do you coordinate with others and for what reason if you just have to dish out a lot of DPS with no regards to playing with your team? There needs to be some structure, some NEED to rely on your team and others and play coordinated and enjoy it, for a good MMORPG.

 

What people complain about with raids, so far as I can gather, is that some professions are totally blackballed and undesirable. People have been playing some professions and elite specs for years, only to find that their most-loved characters can't get into groups. This isn't a solo complaint at all, but a balance issue. These are people who *want* to group, but can't.

 

> Thanks! I already did. I have a great guild with an amazing discord and it is quite fun. I was taken aback by how vocal or how big the part of the community is that complains about group content in an MMO and I couldn't grasp it all and "What happened?" ... It is like when you come to your hometown that you haven't seen in 10 years and see that everything has changed. That caffe you loved so much and which played great music is totally renovated now and plays some horrendous pop-music, kids don't enjoy their time in the park anymore in the same way you and your friends used to and you feel like you just don't understand the world anymore. I know that times change, and I can accept it... but not just like that! I need data, I need answers, I need information and elaborate explanations before I can accept anything, therefore the thread. Thank you for taking the time to answer it in such a manner. Cheers!

 

Glad you've found your home :) I just think the next step is for you to forget the old park, and enjoy the benefits of the NEW MODERN LOOKIT ALL THE COOL NEW SHINIES park. Because there's a lot of good stuff here if you're patient.

 

 

[joneirikb.7506]

Interesting thread. So as a person that has moved from a mostly soloist/singleplayer player to a more group content interested person:

 

Back when I started, I enjoyed solo content (world explorations mostly). And been having fun for years trying to solo as much as possible. Didn't really get into grouping at all until I started learning WvW (for map completion), and found a couple of guilds focused around WvW.

 

In the last few years, I've become much more interested in group content in the rest of the game, but don't have many to play with, and (same as you) found that the community as a whole tends to split up into "Guilds" or "Soloists". So I'm going to have to find a guild I like for this kind of content, I guess.

 

The reason I've played and stuck with GW2 ? Well honestly I started GW1 and played it as a single player game, it basically served as a replacement for Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale after I had played them to death. By the end I was getting more and more annoyed by the combat/build system in GW1, so when they announced gw2 with action combat I got tempted, and just continued to play it like a singleplayer game, because that was how I had played GW1. But I just really love the action combat in this game (and couldn't go back to GW1 again, because of that).

 

I haven't played all that many MMO's in the past (tried a little bit of UO, some UO clone, D&D Online, GW1+2. Every other MMO I've played has been after GW2, mostly because I'm interested/curious about game designs, and comparing to GW2 etc).

 

But looking back, I find that the memorable moments for me in all MMO's are the group content. I kept trying to solo things in DDO (D&D Online), which at launch was impossible past level 4 or so, but had some epic group adventures I still remember fondly and love telling people about etc. And the more I look back over all the years I've spent in GW2, I'm coming to the same conclussion, the most memorable are the times I've played in groups, I'm hard pressed to remember most of the time I've played solo (except for a couple of things like finally beating that boss or challenge solo).

 

Basically, DDO was built around every "dungeon" was instanced, and you needed 5 people for most of them (after the starting areas), while this could seem very restrictive (it did to me back then), nowadays I really appreciate that it did because it basically forced me into grouping, which I ended up enjoying more than I hated. Bad groups happen, but on the whole I had a lot more awesome groups.

 

It really is quite telling that DDO, a game I played for 4-5 months or so at launch, gave me more "group memories" than GW2 has done in 6 years. DDO forced me out of my comfort zone to try new and different things. GW2 is a game that really tries to make you comfy in your comfort zone. I can definitively see why that would appeal to many, personally I think that pushing the comfort zones is a good thing to help players advance and improve as a player.

 

GW2 on the other hand solves this with the "passive grouping" like we see around events etc, which removes the entire player interaction from the grouping (for good and bad). And I absolutely loved that back at launch (solo yay!), but nowadays every time I see this in action I'm reminded of a lyrics from Stabbing Westward:

 

> "If I must be lonely, I think I'd rather be alone."

[NotOverlyCheesy.9427]

I think it has to do with expectations as people have pointed out already. When those who want everything to be soloable clash with those who want challenge through needed group effort, conversation is generated and it can seem a bit disproportionate. In the end it's a good thing though as Anet can use those discussions (or shouting contests) to analyze what their playerbase is thinking.

[serialkicker.5274]

It's not as simple as want to solo mostly - go single player game or want group content - go mmo. Even if you are lone wolf, mmo environment feels and plays differently. You have a feeling you are part of the huge world or universe that doesn't wait for you to turn on the game and continue where you left off. Life goes on even if you are not logged in. People are progressing, farming, fighting, saving lives, socializing and much more. It's a living world. It also gets updated "regularly", so there is always something to work on and feel progress in any way. Pretty much everything depends on the players. You can't exploit market as easy as in single player game and become a god over night. Even as a lone wolf, you'll be part of community when you take on world boss or big event. You know there are real people fighting beside you.

I'm a huge fan of single player games and gw2 is one of rare exceptions of online games I play, but yeah, can't compare it simply like you did. There is much more into mmo than how you described it.

[Etria.3642]

I personally enjoy grouping with my friends and family...which I could not do in a single player game...but I enjoy playing solo most of the rest of the time. Sure I do the odd Tequatl or HOT meta but I do a lot of farming. Those legendary weapons!

 

It is somewhat irritating that my skill level on my tempest is subpar that I literally cannot do the later story quests on my own. I have to wait for when my daughter is available to carry me through.

 

Yes I could ask for help elsewhere but I /should/ be able to do it myself. So embarrassment. My daughter doesn't mind. Bless her heart.

 

But where else could I play ONE game where I could spend four hours in the morning gathering materials then complete an Auric Basin meta (PANIC) followed by daily fractals with friends followed by some exhilarating wvw after dinner?

 

Also the first poster asked what is 'wrong' with me that I might not ALWAYS want to be in a group. Nothing, thank you very much.

[Steve The Cynic.3217]

I've seen too many of this particular comment here to call out names, but...

 

A: "I don't like *having* to do group content."

B: "It's an MMORPG. If you want to do solo only, play a single player game."

 

B's reasoning is erroneous because it overlooks the key aspect of A's objection: obligation. I dropped FFXIV because the main storyline of the base game has frequent and *mandatory* group dungeons that if you don't do them, you cannot advance the story. That is, taking on the role of a unique heroic saviour, you have to group up with several other unique heroic saviours in order to advance.

 

Compare that with GW2 dungeons or SWTOR flashpoints, both of which are structurally similar to the FFXIV story dungeons, but in neither game is it necessary to do them to advance the story. In both GW2 and SWTOR, the dungeonlikes are *linked* to the main stories, but they are not *part* of them. In FFXIV, those dungeons are an *essential* part of the story.

 

I don't mind playing group content. OK, I'm not really a fan of endless speedrunning through such content, but I don't mind playing it. What I *do* mind is that content being a *mandatory* part of advancing the story and (by extension) of advancing my character. (In FFXIV, some story steps are required if you want to get to areas where you can level up your character some more, and those steps include the dungeons.)

[Dami.5046]

There are a couple of reasons why I won't group/join squad/lick my lolly pop

 

1, I can do what I want.

2,If i cock up it's my fault.

3, No toxic people. Please see 2.

4, If required to group then I will, for example a meta. Other wise see 2.

5 I don't need to group to see a tag. I may have to AFK at a moments notice and therefore risk being kicked. #nopointjoining

6. See 1.

 

As a side note, what I choose to do and with whom is no ones business but my own, and what i'm increasingly seeing on these forums I'd wish they would bring back hero/Hench.

They can't answer back.

 

[SkyShroud.2865]

Gw2 has created a culture of "solo" and thus people solo not because they are good but because of the culture. This culture is set in by the fact that loots are shared in open world and the super easiness to LFG thus in some ways create this illusion that it is "solo-able" while in fact, you are not solo-ing but doing it with random strangers. In other words, people are delusional to think they are doing most of the contents alone.

[Majic.4801]

I could say I prefer solo play because zerg warfare bores me to tears, I don't find standing inside or outside designated circles or dodging on cue all that challenging, I don't like waiting around, and I'm not all that thrilled about having to do a lot of typing or installing the latest voice chat client just to play a game.

 

Instead, let's pretend I play solo because I enjoy the fact that it offends people who can't tolerate the idea of me doing what I want instead of what they want.

 

Actually, that's probably a good enough reason right there.

 

tl;dr: Because Fun™

 

.

 

P.S. The folk psychology that invariably breaks out in these sorts of threads is absolutely priceless. On par with phlogiston, phrenology and spontaneous generation. Well worth the price of admission on its own.

[Raizel.8175]

-sigh-

 

This topic. Again.

 

I'm not against single-player-friendly MMORPGs. That's fine. But GW2 burns me out lately because it feels too much like a single-player-game and because it probably is the least sociable MMORPG I've ever played. I miss the sense of community and meaningful social interaction a lot lately. It feels like GW2 doesn't have a real sense of community though. Due to game-design, social interaction and community-building is quite strongly suppressed (no benefits for actually teaming up with other people, no world-chat, no server-identity due to megaserver-architecture, no guild-browser, a very rudimentary LFG-system, with exception of a few crucial or heavily bashed classes: no class-identity, "community" too fractured between game-modes, etc.).

 

I do think that some more focus on actual multiplayer-experience would be welcomed. I also think that it's good game-design that crucial content requires people to team up (like HPs in HoT-maps and stuff like that). At the very least, they could implement a decent guild-browser to make it easier to find statics for team-based content like raids, fractals or stuff like WvW (which will be necessary anyway with the upcoming guild-based WvW-system), since that's really hard with the current methods ANet offers (ingame-mechanisms, forum).

 

Another aspect I don't really like about GW2s "solo-friendlyness" is, that - in a certain sense - it's not necessarily solo-friendly, but rather too faceroll. I'd be ok with soloable content if it would teach people basic gameplay. Most open-world- and story-content isn't though. Plus, content that forces people to learn the basics of GW2s combat-system gets nerfed really fast. Best example here would be the Eater of Souls in the PoF-storyline. There should be a clear distinction between soloable/solo-friendly content on one side and faceroll-content on the other side and people should also accept that a healthy and well-made MMORPG always should teach its players basic gameplay to set a minimum skill-level.

[SlippyCheeze.5483]

> @"Raizel.8175" said:

> This topic. Again.

 

We are never required to be involved in these discussions.

 

> I'm not against single-player-friendly MMORPGs. That's fine. But GW2 burns me out lately because it feels too much like a single-player-game and because it probably is the least sociable MMORPG I've ever played. I miss the sense of community and meaningful social interaction a lot lately. It feels like GW2 doesn't have a real sense of community though. Due to game-design, social interaction and community-building is quite strongly suppressed (no benefits for actually teaming up with other people, no world-chat, no server-identity due to megaserver-architecture, no guild-browser, a very rudimentary LFG-system, with exception of a few crucial or heavily bashed classes: no class-identity, "community" too fractured between game-modes, etc.).

 

I would describe GW2 as a game that did not provide in-game "financial" incentives to form groups, rather than one that "strongly suppressed" them. That is: unlike, for example, WoW, where you have mechanical advantages (eg: kill sharing, completion sharing), or financial advantages (eg: funnel income from guild members to the guild bank), GW2 doesn't have those things.

 

This doesn't discourage anyone from, for example, grouping up together, working on a common goal, forming or joining guilds, etc. It simply doesn't make it, unlike WoW, profitable to run a guild that grabs as many members as possible to boost cashflow into the bank, and thus to the people at the top. It doesn't penalize people for not explicitly forming a group, instead of implicitly forming one.

 

To your concrete objections:

 

I am yet to understand why people continue to bring up "server identity" as a key part of their idea of communal gaming. I get the impression it usually revolves around one of two things -- either an "us vs them" attitude defined, in part, by WvW style combat, or the idea that it forcibly keeps the number of players small enough that you know them off-hand. Is either of those accurate to your view on how it would benefit the game?

 

To the "class identity" and "fractured between game modes", I'd have to ask for something more concrete; I don't believe those are problems, but I'd welcome you presenting whatever supporting evidence or arguments you have, and I'm open to changing my view based on those. I simply don't believe, based on either personal experience, or the metrics we occasionally see, that there is a significant issue there.

 

To the guild browser subject, having played games where that does exist, I think that ANet have actually taken the better, smarter path. The idea is great, but it simply does not scale. Once you get past a couple of hundred guilds, it becomes impossible to distinguish them on any meaningful basis, as the level of nuance in how they approach the game can't be captured in anything but the free-text (and usually unsearchable) description field.

 

If you get 100 guilds that are "PvP, WvW, PvE, Fractals, Raids, friendly and helpful, discord", which one do you pick? Randomly? Why not just join the first to /y at you, then?

 

 

I'd also say that I have never in my life met an in-game "guild" messaging system that was even remotely as usable as Facebook, or even a horrible web based forum, without third party addons that, in essence, rewrite it to the same. Since that frequently comes up in the discussion just after a guild browser, and just before an in-game guild Calendar -- which, again, Facebook Events or Google Calendar are vastly superior to in features and integration with the outside universe.

 

 

I'd like to hear what you think would be an improvement over the current LFG system. It seems to me at least as capable as the WoW version, sans automatic matchmaking. Even that was never really much of a thing, as it would throw together completely random tanks, healers, and DPS professions, without regard to synergy or personal goals for the event. Actual choice is, in my opinion, a stronger tool for making this work.

 

I'd also note that the addon based distributed peer to peer LFG system built on top of WoW, which did increase the resolution of filtering, mostly only did so for competitive -- PvP -- game modes. The non-PvP content was still pretty much down to exactly what you get in GW2.

 

 

Finally, you mention the lack of "world chat" as a drawback, which I'm surprised about in contrast to your position on developing stronger server identity, but... I don't honestly believe is significantly more useful than map chat is, overall, in terms of developing actual connections with others. Server-wide chat channels available in WoW did not produce chat content that, uh, encouraged community, shall we say.

 

> Another aspect I don't really like about GW2s "solo-friendlyness" is, that - in a certain sense - it's not necessarily solo-friendly, but rather too faceroll. I'd be ok with soloable content if it would teach people basic gameplay. Most open-world- and story-content isn't though.

 

I suspect you are not mindful of just how good you are at the game when you say this, compared to the experience of a new player. You are too far through the "git gud" stage to be challenged by what are almost insurmountable walls to other players, and who would benefit from a gentler ramp through the learning process.

 

> Plus, content that forces people to learn the basics of GW2s combat-system gets nerfed really fast. Best example here would be the Eater of Souls in the PoF-storyline. There should be a clear distinction between soloable/solo-friendly content on one side and faceroll-content on the other side and people should also accept that a healthy and well-made MMORPG always should teach its players basic gameplay to set a minimum skill-level.

 

Ghostcrawler, talking about WoW, noted that they tried applying the "make it hard, they will improve" philosophy, and they found that in truth, they didn't. Wildstar built an entire MMO on the promise of doing the same thing, because players said they wanted it, and found that in truth, they didn't. Wizardry Online built an MMO with an extreme penalty for dying, because players said they wanted it, and found that in truth, they didn't.

 

I'd have to say that, to date, the preponderance of evidence is that this is a well intentioned belief that is not true for the vast majority of players, if any, and that those who will step up to the challenge are too few in number, or too spread out, to sustain an MMO.

 

That may mean that the genre is, sadly, lost to them. That would be regrettable, of course, but that does not necessarily make it less true.

[Steve The Cynic.3217]

> @"SlippyCheeze.5483" said:

> I suspect you are not mindful of just how good you are at the game when you say this, compared to the experience of a new player. You are too far through the "git gud" stage to be challenged by what are almost insurmountable walls to other players, and who would benefit from a gentler ramp through the learning process.

 

I wanted to give you a thumbs up AND a helpful just for this, but the forum won't let me do that. That said, the rest of your post was very good, and I agree with pretty much the whole analysis. I have direct experience of a "Guild Directory" feature in an MMORPG. It failed miserably for exactly the reason you cited. It was just a huge list of guilds with almost nothing useful available to distinguish them, and no way to search or anything.

[Lanhelin.3480]

GW2 educated its players to not necessarily need to form a group for 90% of its content that in other MMOs definitely would be content that required a group. Mainly thanks to the loot-system which prevents kill-stealing at all. Everyone can hit the same mob and becomes rewarded more or less. Except for Raids and higher Fractals the main reason to join a party or squad is to easily get into the same map or instance but not because of the content to beat. GW2 broke through the "hard(er)-content-needs-a-group-rule" any other MMO followed so far. Except for Raids and higher Fractals ofc, where the Bosses can only be beaten in case the party or squad also knows how their mechanics work and what they have to do in their different phases.

In the open world there are just a few encounters that actually need some sort of group coordination to fulfill different tasks during a battle, like Tequatl or Triple Trouble.