Kovu.7560 Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said: > > @"Kovu.7560" said: > > > > > And yet, the professional athlete's that don't win still get paid. (albeit less in some sports.) Of course they're not going to speak like that to the media and most are under contract. > Yes, but they don't get a gold medal for finishing last place. > Gold medal? Last place? that's massively hyperbolic -- Neither does anyone here. Also completely sidestepped my point (in that athletes still get _paid_). Pips don't make you Legendary. > @"skillze.7689" said: > > @"Kovu.7560" said: > > > @"skillze.7689" said: > > > > > > How many professional athlete's do you know that say im not doing that because i don't get a big enough reward for competing. > > > > And yet, the professional athlete's that don't win still get paid. (albeit less in some sports.) Of course they're not going to speak like that to the media and most are under contract. > > They dont do it for money they do it because its what they enjoy doing. even none paid people still do it because they enjoy it. all you are trying to say is that in some way shape or form they still get the thrill because of the reward. That is completely false and by saying that you are just another person in the leaderboards for just the rewards and not the thrill of being the best. > > The more you say u need to be paid off to enjoy the thrill of besting the best shows to me that you are just like the other pve pip farmers > Whether someone _enjoys_ doing something, playing sports at a high level, playing a semi-competitive gamemode in an online game, working at mcdonalds -- whatever -- it doesn't change the fact that they do it _to get paid_ (with fake rewards or otherwise). For a lot of people the incentive to _play_ **any** gamemode is the rewards. Without that incentive, see my previous post about the gamemode dying. So yeah, the reward _is an incentive_. Not getting anything out of your hour because lost several matches in a row will kill your enthusiasm to continue or return later, not encourage you to get better. It doesn't even matter if its your fault or if you had awful/uncoordinated teammates. There's a reason that raids grant a few pity Shards/Crystals to players who unable to progress the content. That said, you can call me names all you want, I will never support changes that discourage general participation. Now rewarding a little extra to players who progress through higher tiers, or who contribute to a match more? I would sign onto that. ~ Kovu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damocles.4908 Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > Really.....I merely want to enjoy a pvp match, are we even allowed to have fun in this game anywhere other than pve? > > You sell the game trying to appeal to as many type of players as possible but then your only concern remain the pve playerbase....**then what was the point to even add pvp/wvw to this game?** , I am trying my hardest to understand why this shift in mentality from GW1 even occurred , it's like dealing with a completely different company and I bought this game in good faith with the memories of GW1 still fresh in my mind. > > In GW1 you would gain **fame** , **glory** and **faction points** only by winning matches but here in GW2 you reward people for simply showing up and it's ruining the mood for a good portion of your playerbase **that still spend in your gemstore regardless of them being fully committed pvers or not**; just check my account ...I buy gems on a regular basis maybe more than most pvers...and I am a pvper mostly so..why the different treatment? > > Your reward system in pvp is extremely flawed, I do understand that you want to new players to keep playing, a loss should not be discouraging in a free mode like ranked but...actively rewarding passive gameplay done on purpose..it's not what I would call : good design choice Before the had the awards the PVP realm was quiet and rather small but most of the players were the ones that were passionate about it. The worst part of the rewards are the level up tomes...players would rather use one at lvl 78 rather than explore orr and stuff because its easier...I mean I got over 500 of these..I DON'T WANT THEM... it ruins pve for me, I be like "ok to time explore and level up, conquer the world.....nah just gonna sit on a street corner reading a tome book..all 80 of them..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azizul.8469 Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 the best solution would be double the pips for winner and 0 to loser..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solidaris.5423 Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 Bad idea because: 1. It will only encourage people to just give up faster and AFK when they could win that game with just a bit more effort. Not once I had a match which looked like we would loose it but just needed a little bit of effort to put in and won. If loosing team would not get anything at all this kind of thing will reduce because why should they put an effort if the chance of getting nothing at the end is still high? 2. If you have a really close match lets say you loose with less than a 20 points difference and get nothing for your hard fight how would you feel? 3. People tend to forget that there are players out there who don't have time to play so much (real life is a thing you know). If you cut the opportunity for these people to get anything because they get less experience than you you will encourage them to leave. I get it you guys don't like "participation prizes" but saying loosing team should not anything at all would reduce the fun in-game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralkuth.1456 Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 Or maybe you could do consolation prize for a really close game, or have a kill-count side objective for the losing team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaga.5174 Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 I agree that pip farming is bad for the game mode, and would like to reduce it as much as possible. Yet, i do think its important people are rewarded for investing time into the game mode whether they win or lose. The key is to reward the playerbase on how well their team have done i think. What about this as a suggestion to at least reduce the circumstance (As there will always be some level of this occurring no matter what you do): * Increase the pips gained from winning a game. * Reduced the pips earned from losing the game to flat rate of 2, or something like this. For every 100 points achieved during the game on the losing team, they gain 1 more pip. This way, you are not only more incentivised to win, but losing badly is hardly farmable, and would encourage you to try and gain as much points as you can. Also, you wont feel like you havn't been rewarded at all for investing some time into your game. If you wanted to make it a little more rewarding than this maybe something like: * Increase the Win flat rate by 2 per division. * Increase the loss flat pip rate by 1 per division. This way it incentivises gaining skill points to get into a higher division for more pips. The main thing is that pip should definitely NOT be moved into unranked. That is only bad for the game mode and is a typical suggestion from somebody who wants to do less for more rewards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarshallLaw.9260 Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 > @"Vague Memory.2817" said: > I think that people in ranked playing classes they have no experience on because it is a requirement to get their legendary wings is a far bigger problem. I seriously doubt there are people trying to get 3 pips from a defeat to get rewards. It makes little sense, and I very rarely see people afking from start. The Ascension requires people to complete some achievements with only 3 classes total. IMO it's not a big ask to be semi-proficient with 2 classes other than your main in PvP. > @"Abelisk.4527" said: > Without rewards PVP will literally be empty. The current DUO Q/SOLO Q system coupled with 0 rewards will be catastrophic. Track rewards still remain regardless. . I'll just rip my post from another thread since it's more relevant > Perhaps the better solution is to remove "pips on loss" and reduce how "farmable" ranked is. > Another option would be to increase rewards for players ending the season within the top 250 - extra GM Marks perhaps - and simultaneously reduce the rewards outside of the top 250 - e.g. only 1 GM Mark instead of the 3 we normally get, same number of dyes, less gold. > I see this as being something which would discourage farming for the sake of farming rather than playing the mode as intended. It's still important to have some rewards outside of the top 250 to encourage genuinely interested players who are trying to climb. > -another idea is to split rewards for ranks: > Using GM marks as example: > 1 for ending in Bronze > 2 for Silver > 3 for Gold (the same as current full run of league reward track) > 5 for Plat > 10(?) for Leg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck.2864 Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 Stop thinking this will change anything. No one farms pips at 3 pips per match by losing every game, else these people would have just afk'd at spawn from the start. People understand they need to win to get the rewards in a reasonable time. The people who farm pips will continue to do it by just queueing and hoping they get carried. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinful.2165 Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 The kind of people farming straight losses are at the bottom of bronze. The problem is that ranked offers too much incentive for bad people to queue up just to farm the 3 grandmaster marks win OR lose without any real spirit of competition. This undermines the whole purpose of a competitive game mode. This feels like a major flaw in the sPvP system and makes you wonder who is running the show over at Anet to make such a clearly flawed design choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ukuni.8745 Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 make it award no pips unless you get a minimum on your score card, for example no pips unless you get atleast 100k damage or 100k healing or 10 kills or 10 revives or 100 in the offensive or defense catagorys, at least that way people will have to try to get something done and not just get awarded for participation, at the very least it would give people incentive to try at the start of the match making those snowball matchs less likely until people had hit the cap for rewards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayce.5632 Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 Agree with ukuni.8745's concept. Below is a listing of more ideas. All items listed does not need to apply. Numbers are subject to change. Difference is, pips are awarded during the match and not at the end of match. Something like: * 1 pip for each 100k damage inflicted * 1 pip for each 100k healing to allied players - not self * 1 pip for each 100k damage mitigated to allied players - not self * gain 1 additional pip anytime a pip is gained while contesting a point * 1 pip for 1st contested point captured awarded to whole team * 1 pip for 1st blood kill awarded to whole team * rezing now cost 1 pip - just kidding, just the opposite * Now have a choice to spend pips gained during the match to offset rating loss less than 0 (warning, can not offset a ratings loss into a ratings gain) at the end of the match, or spend pips gained during the match towards rewards chest - warning, this choice is either/or not both, this will consume all pips gained during the match Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lLobo.7960 Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 This will not improve your pvp experience. Currently there are a few reasons people afk in a match: - They want to tank their rating (to either boost someone else up or to stay in low div for easy games) - Wintrading - AFK pip farm (only really common on bronze or low silver if at all) By removing pip rewards on loss you will only impact one of those reasons while also impacting a major section of the community who wants to pvp but also want to get rewards and would leave if they feel they are better spending their time elsewhere. Those are the ones who are not good enough for the top 250 rewards but stay in high silver to gold and have a win-ratio of around 50%. They will feel like its pointless to play and they are better off farming pve or wvw. Removing pips on loss will have another major impact that will make people afk as soon as they see the game as a loss. What you want to do to improve the match quality is increase rewards for the loosing team for close games and reduce (maybe in this case remove) rewards for loosing a quick blow-out. In this way people **might** feel that trying hard will give them better rewards, even if loosing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGrimm.5624 Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 4372 be nice, its late and will try and get the point across. OP, the difference here is thinking about this as work versus a sport. In a sport, 2nd place is losing, at work second place is still making bank for the business. Teams should be awarded for how well they did overall and how well their opponents did against them. Example I would award each team more as they got closer to 500. Would award them more the higher their opponents got since it was a closer match. So in a 500 to 499 match the winners would receive more for winning and winning at high close match, but the losing side would also be rewarded quite well for scoring in a high bracket. In a 500 to 100 match I would still reward the win the same for the high scoring, but less in the second stage since it wasn't a good match up, and the losers would receive less since they didn't score much at all. So in effect this isn't everyone get a ribbon, but everyone gets paid if the work is done. Good hunting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwaihir.1745 Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 Flow chart to pip farmers v pvp players: Are you bronze? -> Are you a pip farmer? -> Yes -> Continue on your way. Are you bronze? -> Are you a pip farmer? -> No -> Climb out ez and be on your way. This thread is now resolved. Mods may now lock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother.1504 Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 > @"Kovu.7560" said: > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said: > > > @"Kovu.7560" said: > > > > > > > > And yet, the professional athlete's that don't win still get paid. (albeit less in some sports.) Of course they're not going to speak like that to the media and most are under contract. > > Yes, but they don't get a gold medal for finishing last place. > > > Gold medal? Last place? that's massively hyperbolic -- Neither does anyone here. Also completely sidestepped my point (in that athletes still get _paid_). Pips don't make you Legendary. > > > > @"skillze.7689" said: > > > @"Kovu.7560" said: > > > > @"skillze.7689" said: > > > > > > > > How many professional athlete's do you know that say im not doing that because i don't get a big enough reward for competing. > > > > > > And yet, the professional athlete's that don't win still get paid. (albeit less in some sports.) Of course they're not going to speak like that to the media and most are under contract. > > > > They dont do it for money they do it because its what they enjoy doing. even none paid people still do it because they enjoy it. all you are trying to say is that in some way shape or form they still get the thrill because of the reward. That is completely false and by saying that you are just another person in the leaderboards for just the rewards and not the thrill of being the best. > > > > The more you say u need to be paid off to enjoy the thrill of besting the best shows to me that you are just like the other pve pip farmers > > > Whether someone _enjoys_ doing something, playing sports at a high level, playing a semi-competitive gamemode in an online game, working at mcdonalds -- whatever -- it doesn't change the fact that they do it _to get paid_ (with fake rewards or otherwise). For a lot of people the incentive to _play_ **any** gamemode is the rewards. Without that incentive, see my previous post about the gamemode dying. So yeah, the reward _is an incentive_. Not getting anything out of your hour because lost several matches in a row will kill your enthusiasm to continue or return later, not encourage you to get better. It doesn't even matter if its your fault or if you had awful/uncoordinated teammates. There's a reason that raids grant a few pity Shards/Crystals to players who unable to progress the content. > > That said, you can call me names all you want, I will never support changes that discourage general participation. Now rewarding a little extra to players who progress through higher tiers, or who contribute to a match more? I would sign onto that. > > ~ Kovu If anet cant attract new players to the mode, spvp is dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ok I Did It.2854 Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 They tried the Pips only on win before and the number of players actually playing was absurdly low, to the point people complained about match ups, so Anet changed it, they had a influx of players, so match ups changed and Queue times dropped, sadly due to the way the system works, the AFK farmers who go unpunished can ruin an entire match, This is nearly impossible for Anet to fix, if they go back to award pips on win only, the already insanely low number of players will drop even further, then you are back to massive Queue times and terrible match ups, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 Between those saying that PVP will die if they remove the rewards from losing and those that find it pointless to play a long game only to get nothing, I'd suggest a compromise. Remove rewards from the losing team, but give rewards to those members of the losing team that got top stats. An incentive for the losing team to "stay" in the game, because if losing gives no rewards, what's the point in playing a game when you are well behind in the first few minutes? I think that would be fair for both sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airdive.2613 Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > Between those saying that PVP will die if they remove the rewards from losing and those that find it pointless to play a long game only to get nothing, I'd suggest a compromise. Remove rewards from the losing team, but give rewards to those members of the losing team that got top stats. An incentive for the losing team to "stay" in the game, because if losing gives no rewards, what's the point in playing a game when you are well behind in the first few minutes? I think that would be fair for both sides. We've been through it before. Top stats are not indicative of a given player's performance. victory > top stat farm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChronosCosmos.9450 Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 > @"Vague Memory.2817" said: > I think that people in ranked playing classes they have no experience on because it is a requirement to get their legendary wings is a far bigger problem. I seriously doubt there are people trying to get 3 pips from a defeat to get rewards. It makes little sense, and I very rarely see people afking from start. You'll be surprised. There is a reason why people afk in PvP. They want the 3 pips from losing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyelogix.1654 Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 > @"lLobo.7960" said: > This will not improve your pvp experience. > > Currently there are a few reasons people afk in a match: > - They want to tank their rating (to either boost someone else up or to stay in low div for easy games) > - Wintrading > - AFK pip farm (only really common on bronze or low silver if at all) haven't seem that many afkers in silver thou.. might be more common in bronze.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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