Massive disappointment - spoilers inside.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

> @"The Spiral King.2483" said:

> > @Harper.4173 said:

> > > @Grebcol.5984 said:

> > > Look this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcFEe2odAuo and compare that with ending of PoF. xD Gw was much more mature then Gw 2.

> >

> > The tone in the entire franchise has shifted. And honestly I don't like it at all. Even though Gw1's depiction of the desert wasn't as graphically complex as today's it felt like so much of a deadlier place. It built atmosphere ? How? Through simple but effective means - like text.

> > https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Bleached_Bones

> > Read those. When I read that it made the hair on my arms stand up. That's what GW1 writing was about. It set the scene and atmosphere.

> > The desert we venture into today feels much less threatening or lethal - mostly because it's not even as barren as it should be. It is FULL of stuff everywhere. That takes away from the notion of an accursed, inhospitable place that you have no business being in.

>

> It's because GW2 is a persistent world. They lose a lot of the charm when the areas aren't tailor made for a set party with a specific number. It's just a hodge-podge of event filled areas connected with lone vendor-trash mobs scattered about. It's pretty, but has no character.

 

It's more than that for the Crystal Desert. I would say what caused the Crystal Desert to lose its charm is that it went from a literal ghost town, where the only living, civilized group was yourself, to being a nomadic land where everyone and their mother can easily live albeit in harsh ways. The place is simply _too populated_ to really feel like the same desert that had been said for a thousand years to be fully inhospitable to human civilization.

 

In GW1, in the open world parts of the map (read: outside of instances), you had a handful of nomadic centaurs, then you had wildlife. No one else. No major armies, no civilized towns, no nothing. Even the Forgotten, the only true civilization in the Crystal Desert, were restricted to the mission areas in large. But in GW2, you have Elonians, Awakened, and Forged in every nook and cranny (and no centaurs in sight, oddly enough).

[Kenagin.3529]

> @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> In GW1, in the open world parts of the map (read: outside of instances), you had a handful of nomadic centaurs, then you had wildlife. No one else. No major armies, no civilized towns, no nothing. Even the Forgotten, the only true civilization in the Crystal Desert, were restricted to the mission areas in large. But in GW2, you have Elonians, Awakened, and Forged in every nook and cranny (and no centaurs in sight, oddly enough).

 

As for the centaurs, a student in the academy in the map Domain of Vabbi states that Palawa Joko has made all centaurs extinct.

You have to correct him by saying he only made them extinct within the Crystal Desert/Elona.

 

[Killerbot.8645]

> @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > @"The Spiral King.2483" said:

> > > @Harper.4173 said:

> > > > @Grebcol.5984 said:

> > > > Look this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcFEe2odAuo and compare that with ending of PoF. xD Gw was much more mature then Gw 2.

> > >

> > > The tone in the entire franchise has shifted. And honestly I don't like it at all. Even though Gw1's depiction of the desert wasn't as graphically complex as today's it felt like so much of a deadlier place. It built atmosphere ? How? Through simple but effective means - like text.

> > > https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Bleached_Bones

> > > Read those. When I read that it made the hair on my arms stand up. That's what GW1 writing was about. It set the scene and atmosphere.

> > > The desert we venture into today feels much less threatening or lethal - mostly because it's not even as barren as it should be. It is FULL of stuff everywhere. That takes away from the notion of an accursed, inhospitable place that you have no business being in.

> >

> > It's because GW2 is a persistent world. They lose a lot of the charm when the areas aren't tailor made for a set party with a specific number. It's just a hodge-podge of event filled areas connected with lone vendor-trash mobs scattered about. It's pretty, but has no character.

>

> It's more than that for the Crystal Desert. I would say what caused the Crystal Desert to lose its charm is that it went from a literal ghost town, where the only living, civilized group was yourself, to being a nomadic land where everyone and their mother can easily live albeit in harsh ways. The place is simply _too populated_ to really feel like the same desert that had been said for a thousand years to be fully inhospitable to human civilization.

>

> In GW1, in the open world parts of the map (read: outside of instances), you had a handful of nomadic centaurs, then you had wildlife. No one else. No major armies, no civilized towns, no nothing. Even the Forgotten, the only true civilization in the Crystal Desert, were restricted to the mission areas in large. But in GW2, you have Elonians, Awakened, and Forged in every nook and cranny (and no centaurs in sight, oddly enough).

250 years

 

This thread really turned into a circlejerk, what a shame.

 

 

[RyuDragnier.9476]

> @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > @"The Spiral King.2483" said:

> > > @Harper.4173 said:

> > > > @Grebcol.5984 said:

> > > > Look this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcFEe2odAuo and compare that with ending of PoF. xD Gw was much more mature then Gw 2.

> > >

> > > The tone in the entire franchise has shifted. And honestly I don't like it at all. Even though Gw1's depiction of the desert wasn't as graphically complex as today's it felt like so much of a deadlier place. It built atmosphere ? How? Through simple but effective means - like text.

> > > https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Bleached_Bones

> > > Read those. When I read that it made the hair on my arms stand up. That's what GW1 writing was about. It set the scene and atmosphere.

> > > The desert we venture into today feels much less threatening or lethal - mostly because it's not even as barren as it should be. It is FULL of stuff everywhere. That takes away from the notion of an accursed, inhospitable place that you have no business being in.

> >

> > It's because GW2 is a persistent world. They lose a lot of the charm when the areas aren't tailor made for a set party with a specific number. It's just a hodge-podge of event filled areas connected with lone vendor-trash mobs scattered about. It's pretty, but has no character.

>

> It's more than that for the Crystal Desert. I would say what caused the Crystal Desert to lose its charm is that it went from a literal ghost town, where the only living, civilized group was yourself, to being a nomadic land where everyone and their mother can easily live albeit in harsh ways. The place is simply _too populated_ to really feel like the same desert that had been said for a thousand years to be fully inhospitable to human civilization.

>

> In GW1, in the open world parts of the map (read: outside of instances), you had a handful of nomadic centaurs, then you had wildlife. No one else. No major armies, no civilized towns, no nothing. Even the Forgotten, the only true civilization in the Crystal Desert, were restricted to the mission areas in large. But in GW2, you have Elonians, Awakened, and Forged in every nook and cranny (and no centaurs in sight, oddly enough).

 

200+ years is a lot of time for things to change in.

[maxwelgm.4315]

> @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > @"The Spiral King.2483" said:

> > > @Harper.4173 said:

> > > > @Grebcol.5984 said:

> > > > Look this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcFEe2odAuo and compare that with ending of PoF. xD Gw was much more mature then Gw 2.

> > >

> > > The tone in the entire franchise has shifted. And honestly I don't like it at all. Even though Gw1's depiction of the desert wasn't as graphically complex as today's it felt like so much of a deadlier place. It built atmosphere ? How? Through simple but effective means - like text.

> > > https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Bleached_Bones

> > > Read those. When I read that it made the hair on my arms stand up. That's what GW1 writing was about. It set the scene and atmosphere.

> > > The desert we venture into today feels much less threatening or lethal - mostly because it's not even as barren as it should be. It is FULL of stuff everywhere. That takes away from the notion of an accursed, inhospitable place that you have no business being in.

> >

> > It's because GW2 is a persistent world. They lose a lot of the charm when the areas aren't tailor made for a set party with a specific number. It's just a hodge-podge of event filled areas connected with lone vendor-trash mobs scattered about. It's pretty, but has no character.

>

> It's more than that for the Crystal Desert. I would say what caused the Crystal Desert to lose its charm is that it went from a literal ghost town, where the only living, civilized group was yourself, to being a nomadic land where everyone and their mother can easily live albeit in harsh ways. The place is simply _too populated_ to really feel like the same desert that had been said for a thousand years to be fully inhospitable to human civilization.

>

> In GW1, in the open world parts of the map (read: outside of instances), you had a handful of nomadic centaurs, then you had wildlife. No one else. No major armies, no civilized towns, no nothing. Even the Forgotten, the only true civilization in the Crystal Desert, were restricted to the mission areas in large. But in GW2, you have Elonians, Awakened, and Forged in every nook and cranny (and no centaurs in sight, oddly enough).

 

Your posts are usually very well thought out but this one maybe needs a call to some things. When you explore the Domain of Vabbi zone you come across a plethora of civilized people that actually worship Joko as if they were on a rising totalitarian country during its golden years. In spite of completely wasting southern Elona, Joko (iirc) reverted the flow of the Elon river which caused the regions alongside the Crystal Desert to flourish (probably unintended to him, even if the wiki mentions it "supplied his domains with precious water", but probably also worth it to pull the prank on the Sunspears). He is also much more of a bureaucrat than a warmonger apparently, since Amoon Oasis is allowed to exist north of the Riverlands as an independent trade hub. Inside of his domain everyone is hit with lies telling people he conquered Zhaitan and saved the world (lol). In sum, Palawa did a lot of things in 200+ years and a very meaningful one, was turning the desert into a sprawling (bizarre and twisted, but still sprawling) civilization of both living and undead, going as far as having neighbors he could bargain with (maybe he's just addicted to bargaining?). The non-civilization features like all the wildlife can simply be a result of migration induced by the dragons; the Deep Sea Dragon alone apparently has caused most sea life to escape from the depths of Tyria (which are supposedly very rich in life) to shallow waters near the coast, and I'd wager Kralk has probably caused more than Ogres to migrate from the eastern lands.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

> @Killerbot.8645 said:

> 250 years

>

> This thread really turned into a kitten, what a shame.

 

> @RyuDragnier.9476 said:

> 200+ years is a lot of time for things to change in.

 

Never said otherwise.

 

However, to counter that argument: **1,000 years**, with at least 5 attempts (Margonites, Elonians x2, Ascalonians, and Seekers) to settle the desert all failed. Now, Joko has allowed it to succeed... somehow even where the Elon doesn't touch.

 

That said, I'm not actually arguing against the lore of the maps (ya'll way too defensive). I was stating why the maps feel so different compared to GW1, and what was lost with the sensation the Crystal Desert gave in GW1 compared to what it gives in GW2. I wasn't talking about the quality of the lore and whether or not it makes sense.

[ThatOddOne.4387]

I guess at this point I felt that the humans in general, as a race, speaking meta, needed a bit of a 'pick-me-up' with everything that has happened, and a "The Gods are still there and they still care" would have been perfect. But even that was stripped away to push a narrative and close the door on the Gods completely.

[Gorgaan Peaudesang.8324]

> @ThatOddOne.4387 said:

> I guess at this point I felt that the humans in general, as a race, speaking meta, needed a bit of a 'pick-me-up' with everything that has happened, and a "The Gods are still there and they still care" would have been perfect. But even that was stripped away to push a narrative and close the door on the Gods completely.

 

The problem with "The Gods are still there and they still care" is that it doesn't fit with what the game shows and tell. We didn't see a sight of God intervention in Tyria for ages, until the not-so-god-anymore Balthazar showed up.

[ThatOddOne.4387]

... That's because they CAN'T intervene because that would destroy the world anyways, as has already been covered as a sensible enough reason. They can still care whilst not being able to do physically do anything for fear of making it worse. Were you being intentionally obtuse?

[Gorgaan Peaudesang.8324]

Then they would've been bound to do nothing but watch Tyria be destroyed. How interesting that would have been.

[Thalador.4218]

If they cared, they would've done one of the following:

 

A.) Evacuate the Tyrian human population and everyone else who wanted to escape "certain" doom to another world that doesn't have eldritch abominations feasting on life and magic. Just like they saved humanity in the first place and brought them to Tyria from an unknown calamity that possibly destroyed their homeworld.

B.) Understand that Glint and the Forgotten were working on multiple viable projects that could fix the extremes of the dragon cycles and prevent the destruction of life and the disappearance of magic in draconic bellies. They could've worked from their realms through proxies (avatars, champions, priests, priestesses, divine interventions, etc.) to further that plan and help Glint realize her designs to save Tyria.

 

They did nothing but chose to flee and condemn the people they had saved millennia ago to a slow, painful destruction. This would never have happened if the writers actually cared about the lore and paid attention. The Six has been retconned into a bunch of uncaring, incompetent idiots that do nothing good with their eternal power and wisdom.

[Sarrs.4831]

> @Thalador.4218 said:

> The Six has been retconned into a bunch of uncaring, incompetent idiots that do nothing good with their eternal power and wisdom.

 

Tbh I like that slant. I like capricious, flawed gods.

[Inc.4753]

I wouldn't be surprised if Anet tries to (ironically) humanize the Six. How we view the Six has mostly been influenced by the humans, who see them as Gods. The other playable races don't revere them as such. If the Six might return to the story Anet might want to change the human race's view to something more equal to the views of the other races (just powerful beings, not gods). A first step would be to show the Six have flaws and make mistakes too. In PoF they used Kasmeer to show this change, she witnessed both Balthazar's shenanigans and the departing/fleeing of Kormir and in the end was in favor of killing on of her gods.

[ThatOddOne.4387]

We already knew this though.

We literally already knew the gods make mistakes and are not omnipotent, that they were more similar to Greek gods than anything.

It is pointless and at this point a kick in the nuts to humans. "Ahahaha you're idiots for believing in these people who aren't gods and don't care about you. Religion is stupid ahahaha"

> @Sarrs.4831 said:

> > @Thalador.4218 said:

> > The Six has been retconned into a bunch of uncaring, incompetent idiots that do nothing good with their eternal power and wisdom.

>

> Tbh I like that slant. I like capricious, flawed gods.

And it's been done to death. They can be flawed but being uncaring is just counter to everything else we have been told about them before this.

[Rognik.2579]

> @Harper.4173 said:

> 3. Balthazar was never good - but he was never bad either. Let's not forget that - Balthazar was on humanity's side - it's him that helped them conquer lands on Tyria in the first place. It feels off. The way they've written it feels very off considering old GW1 lore.

This here is part of the problem. He was on *human*ity's side. Not asuran, not norn, and definitely not charr or sylvari (them being dragon minions and all). You character might be a human and that's fine and all, but we all need to live here and him beating up dragons is not good for any of us, including humans.

[Gorgaan Peaudesang.8324]

> @ThatOddOne.4387 said:

> The sylvari still have the Pale Tree.

> And that still does not address the underlying issues and the problems it causes for the narrative to just have the Gods completely gone.

 

The sylvari need a Pale Tree to prosper as a race. Nothing indicate that humans need gods to achieve that.

[Thalador.4218]

As ThatOddOne put it so well, the Six were flawed and had a mortal side to their divinity to begin with. But with an average of 2,100 years of experience, wisdom, knowledge amplified by divine perspectives they wouldn't be useless, incompetent and foolish not to see there are many viable ways to save Tyria. Now it's just the weak storytelling trying through retcons and illogical reasoning to shove it down our throats that these aren't real gods and they are not worthy of worship.

 

Rognik, what you said is true, but in a creative and interesting story there would've been a chance to make Balthazar see that the times of old are long gone and unity between the races has accomplished more than he thought was possible for mortals. He could've been made to realize that his former human supremacist views are flawed and Tyrians of all races are formidable allies. Then again, that is something the real Balthazar of Guild Wars could've seen and understood - not the whining un-Balthazar from PoF.

[KryTiKaL.3125]

> @Harper.4173 said:

> I would rather stay in the "The gods are still around but not intervening" cycle - because it opens up the possibility to go the their realms and explore a lot of that lore without much issue.

> Perhaps a " with the current unstable magic situation in Tyria the gods can't intervene or take part in Tyrian issues BUT can still remain in the mists, guarding over their respective realms".

> Balthazar being a bad guy is wrong because they made two mistakes:

>

> 1. They didn't foreshadow this at all - there's really no indication in the past that Balthazar would go "KILL DRAGONS insane". Kormir states that the gods retreated to the mists because they realized that the dragons were coming and they didn't want to interfere. If anything it would have been *at that point* that Balthazar should have acted up - and chronologically speaking *that moment took place before GW1*.

> So he was fine with it for a while then went all crazy? Why? It's not consistent.

>

> 2. They made him incredibly one-dimensional - he wants revenge and he wants to kill the dragons and that's it. I expected better. I expected perhaps an arc where he ends up in the same spot but you can sort of sympathize with him. He's doing the wrong thing but maybe he was forced into this situation. I expected a more mature character development arc - one that wasn't just "I'm the god of WAR and I'll kill everyone BWUHAHAHAHAHA".

> 3. Balthazar was never good - but he was never bad either. Let's not forget that - Balthazar was on humanity's side - it's him that helped them conquer lands on Tyria in the first place. It feels off. The way they've written it feels very off considering old GW1 lore.

>

> 4. It's one man with a magical artifact. And one dragon that's incredibly weak. The problem is that the sword is the only thing different than before. Where he easily stomps both you AND Aurene before he kills you. I don't really accept that the sword would make THAT much of a difference without any sort of set-up. If anything - if he reignited the sword he should be able to take the power away from it, no?

> Also don't forget Balthazar has absorbed far more power than Aurene has - he's basically taken all the Bloodstone power and a lot of power from Jormag and Primordus. If you want the sword to matter that much it should have been pointed out that the sword is THAT powerful. It was pulled out of nowhere. You can't deny that.

>

> Yeah - I guess going 1 v 1 with a god and winning is something that doesn't please me as it destroys all suspension of disbelief.

> How are they going to justify that in the future we don't just take the sword and solo every boss/threat/encounter? I mean - we're that strong aren't we?

>

> I guess it comes down to the fact that the direction we're moving in is not something I enjoy. GW2 was about to be about every race - but it turns out it's about none of them. In trying to make it all-inclusive all flavor and relevant uniqueness in the story has been lost.

 

Okay here are the issues with your understanding of the plot in PoF.

 

1. This is true, there was no foreshadowing of one of the gods becoming an antagonist however it also stands to reason that how could that have been foreshadowed at all? The gods were in the Mists at the time and the story hadn't delved there quite yet in HoT. The focus was on the dragons. Kormir said that the gods retreated to the Mists not because they realized the dragons were coming, but because they knew a conflict between the gods and the Elder Dragons would have been catastrophic for Tyria. She explained herself that the Crystal Desert was the result of their conflict against Abaddon. Also Balthazar *did* act up at the point the gods retreated to the Mists, Kormir explained it. That is the event that resulted in him being imprisoned and had his powers stripped from him. The only reason he was able to act up at the point of LS3 was due to Rytlock having freed him. Again...all that gets detailed in the story. To summarize that, Balthazar had been chained up since the gods retreated to the Mists due to their unwillingness to endanger Tyria with a conflict with the Elder Dragons, Rytlock then freed him and unintentionally set in motion what we see Balthazar do.

 

2. What you just described wouldn't be considered one dimensional, granted it isn't terribly deep either but nonetheless. He did want revenge, he also wanted to kill the dragons due to his own pride, again...described by Kormir. Pride can make someone do tremendously crazy things, mostly due to their unwillingness to either admit fault, admit they are wrong, admit they should/can't do anything. Lots of problems with it. Big indications of that in todays society. Look at the US Government :anguished: . It was Balthazar's pride that lead to him trying to defy what his fellow gods had decided, and his subsequent imprisonment, seclusion and stripping of his divine power is what lead that pride to turn to what we see in PoF. Similar thing happened with Abaddon, except this had no prophecy.

 

3. True, he was in a gray area due to him being the literal god of war, however in that same thought he did not believe what he was doing to be evil, or wrong because it was conflict and he is the god of war, he was meaning to put an end to the Elder Dragons and didn't care of the consequences. One of the priests of Balthazar you interact with put it pretty well, he said "Pfft, he's the god of war! I don't worship him because he loves puppies." in response to the Commander saying Balthazar doesn't care about Kryta or Tyria.

 

4. Yes it was one man/woman with a magical artifact, one we know has some pretty significant magical power due to what we know its sister blade did, Magdaer and the Foefire, and Sohothin had been reignited by Balthazar himself meaning it was his own magic imbued into the weapon. Sohothin and Magdaer, if you remember, were magical swords gifted to Ascalon by Orr as a sign of peace. Balthazar could have been the one who had initially imbued them with their fire. He *is* also the god of fire and we know the gods had a presence in Orr for a period of time and that Magdaer and Sohothin existed during the time when the gods did walk Tyria. Stands to reason that these weapons were pretty powerful just within their own rights. As for Aurene, we learned in the story that Glint and her offspring seemed to be key in containing magical power and keeping it in balance. We learned quite a bit about how maybe the magic held by the elder dragons needed to be transferred and they needed to be "replaced" to maintain balance. It was more the combined power of you, Sohothin, and Aurene that was able to bring down Balthazar, also don't forget that Kralkatorrik got involved in the fight a bit even if he didn't care who he hit. Aurene may have been young, but she is still a dragon and has some pretty potent magical power. We even got to use the lil trick we learned with her in one of the earlier living story chapters.

 

Now see I can understand your issues, I can, and you have every right to be dissatisfied with the plot. Can't please everyone. However, you missed a number of points in the plot that I think would have cleared up some of those misunderstandings I pointed out. Maybe try playing through it again, get a better grasp of what happened.

 

Also lets be clear here...GW1 story was good, but it wasn't great. Nor was the lore that great. It is *good* but please don't go acting like GW1 is some sort of saint. The voice acting was not good, by any margin, there were a number of cliches, Kormir herself was an issue (that is a whole other debate), and the characters you traveled with were quite a bit meh until much later into the game when they introduced the hero teams. I loved GW1, its story, and its lore, still love it, but don't make the mistake of thinking it was miles better than what we have in GW2, especially with the direction PoF went and the quality of the details (the voice acting, the animations, cinematics, etc).

[ThatOddOne.4387]

I don't think people are acting like the Guild Wars story was amazing, but what we would like is if ArenaNet kept to what was previously established in said story, instead of coming up with completely new, completely unrelated tangents for GW2 instead of weaving it into the original story. It should be a development, not a retcon.

[KryTiKaL.3125]

> @ThatOddOne.4387 said:

> I don't think people are acting like the Guild Wars story was amazing, but what we would like is if ArenaNet kept to what was previously established in said story, instead of coming up with completely new, completely unrelated tangents for GW2 instead of weaving it into the original story. It should be a development, not a retcon.

 

I mean...this was development. I don't remember seeing anything getting retconned. What exactly do you think was retconned and what exactly do you think they didn't follow up on in the previously established story? The Elder Dragons themselves were a carry over from GW1 story in Eye of the North, the gods departing and then the subsequent explanation of the "Why?" was given in PoF, we also saw the repercussions of said departure due to Balthazar's pride getting in the way of his reason.

 

I'm curious as to what you think they retconned or haven't followed up on **yet**.

[Harper.4173]

> @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > @"The Spiral King.2483" said:

> > > @Harper.4173 said:

> > > > @Grebcol.5984 said:

> > > > Look this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcFEe2odAuo and compare that with ending of PoF. xD Gw was much more mature then Gw 2.

> > >

> > > The tone in the entire franchise has shifted. And honestly I don't like it at all. Even though Gw1's depiction of the desert wasn't as graphically complex as today's it felt like so much of a deadlier place. It built atmosphere ? How? Through simple but effective means - like text.

> > > https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Bleached_Bones

> > > Read those. When I read that it made the hair on my arms stand up. That's what GW1 writing was about. It set the scene and atmosphere.

> > > The desert we venture into today feels much less threatening or lethal - mostly because it's not even as barren as it should be. It is FULL of stuff everywhere. That takes away from the notion of an accursed, inhospitable place that you have no business being in.

> >

> > It's because GW2 is a persistent world. They lose a lot of the charm when the areas aren't tailor made for a set party with a specific number. It's just a hodge-podge of event filled areas connected with lone vendor-trash mobs scattered about. It's pretty, but has no character.

>

> It's more than that for the Crystal Desert. I would say what caused the Crystal Desert to lose its charm is that it went from a literal ghost town, where the only living, civilized group was yourself, to being a nomadic land where everyone and their mother can easily live albeit in harsh ways. The place is simply _too populated_ to really feel like the same desert that had been said for a thousand years to be fully inhospitable to human civilization.

>

> In GW1, in the open world parts of the map (read: outside of instances), you had a handful of nomadic centaurs, then you had wildlife. No one else. No major armies, no civilized towns, no nothing. Even the Forgotten, the only true civilization in the Crystal Desert, were restricted to the mission areas in large. But in GW2, you have Elonians, Awakened, and Forged in every nook and cranny (and no centaurs in sight, oddly enough).

 

This is exactly how I felt as well. On every map, everywhere you turn it's just FILLED with activity. It's filled with stuff happening - factions fighting - it doesn't seem alien, barren and inhospitable - it feels too "alive".

[Harper.4173]

> @Killerbot.8645 said:

> > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > > @"The Spiral King.2483" said:

> > > > @Harper.4173 said:

> > > > > @Grebcol.5984 said:

> > > > > Look this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcFEe2odAuo and compare that with ending of PoF. xD Gw was much more mature then Gw 2.

> > > >

> > > > The tone in the entire franchise has shifted. And honestly I don't like it at all. Even though Gw1's depiction of the desert wasn't as graphically complex as today's it felt like so much of a deadlier place. It built atmosphere ? How? Through simple but effective means - like text.

> > > > https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Bleached_Bones

> > > > Read those. When I read that it made the hair on my arms stand up. That's what GW1 writing was about. It set the scene and atmosphere.

> > > > The desert we venture into today feels much less threatening or lethal - mostly because it's not even as barren as it should be. It is FULL of stuff everywhere. That takes away from the notion of an accursed, inhospitable place that you have no business being in.

> > >

> > > It's because GW2 is a persistent world. They lose a lot of the charm when the areas aren't tailor made for a set party with a specific number. It's just a hodge-podge of event filled areas connected with lone vendor-trash mobs scattered about. It's pretty, but has no character.

> >

> > It's more than that for the Crystal Desert. I would say what caused the Crystal Desert to lose its charm is that it went from a literal ghost town, where the only living, civilized group was yourself, to being a nomadic land where everyone and their mother can easily live albeit in harsh ways. The place is simply _too populated_ to really feel like the same desert that had been said for a thousand years to be fully inhospitable to human civilization.

> >

> > In GW1, in the open world parts of the map (read: outside of instances), you had a handful of nomadic centaurs, then you had wildlife. No one else. No major armies, no civilized towns, no nothing. Even the Forgotten, the only true civilization in the Crystal Desert, were restricted to the mission areas in large. But in GW2, you have Elonians, Awakened, and Forged in every nook and cranny (and no centaurs in sight, oddly enough).

> 250 years

>

> This thread really turned into a kitten, what a shame.

>

>

 

I would argue that if you're going to lose the feeling and atmosphere of a certain location then what's the point of returning to it? Why go to the Crystal Desert if it's going to be something else entirely?

Just so you can make some money off nostalgia?

The point of the crystal desert is not just being a place - but a certain type of place. It evokes a certain feeling and a certain sentiment. If you're going to change all that why not just make a new place?

[Feanor.2358]

> @Harper.4173 said:

> So we all know by now how the expansion story turned out. I feel it is by far the *weakest* part of the expansion, which overall stands out as a very good expansion - to me at least.

> The problem I'm having is with how straight forward their approach to making Balthazar the villain was. And how quickly the door was closed on old lore, the gods, and anything that has to do with the human-aspect of the lore.

>

> Back when Balthazar was first introduced in the LS and teased as a major part of PoF I was both excited and afraid - afraid something like this might happen. Still - I believed and held hope that they'd work something *interesting* and engaging into the expansion. I hoped that it wouldn't be just "This is Balthazar - he's the new bad guy - go fight, pursue and eventually kill him".

> I had hopes that maybe there'd be a plot twist, that they wouldn't serve one of the core elements of this game's lore up as just another filler enemy that you fight and kill on the premise of "he's the new bad guy now, go get him". I hoped that as we progressed through the story we'd find a complex situation, with nuances, tones of grey not just - he's bad and you're good.

>

> I'm also disappointed by the ending - one man and an underdeveloped elder dragon spawnling going toe to toe with an incredibly powerful entity and killing him. I never imagined they'd go this far.

> When it became clear to me we'd eventually haven o big twist, no reveal, nothing more than killing Balthazar I still imagined it would go down differently - perhaps he'd fight it out with Kralk only for us to step in and surprise him when he's distracted or weak - but no - you fight him one on one and beat him. The absurdity still sticks in my mind and I fear may never go away.

> I had to write this up because I feel it was very poorly handled. It was very clear they want to shut the door on the old lore. I personally hate it.

 

There's truth in that. But personally, I prefer to see this as a bridge story. First, it set up the next immediate threat right away. Something I did not expect. And there's a twist there all right - unlike all the immediate threats so far, we *can't* go and kill Kralkatorrik.

Second, it underlined the bond between Aurene and the Commander. I'm fairly certain this is going to be a key part of the story. Which makes the way Balthazar gets defeated sort of justified.

 

I fully agree he's still wasted potential though. "Grrrr, moar power" is quite boring as far as villain motivations go. But it seems to me they're using this story to set up something more interesting. Could be just wishful thinking. We'll see soon enough.

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

> @Thalador.4218 said:

> If they cared, they would've done one of the following:

>

> A.) Evacuate the Tyrian human population and everyone else who wanted to escape "certain" doom to another world that doesn't have eldritch abominations feasting on life and magic. Just like they saved humanity in the first place and brought them to Tyria from an unknown calamity that possibly destroyed their homeworld.

> B.) Understand that Glint and the Forgotten were working on multiple viable projects that could fix the extremes of the dragon cycles and prevent the destruction of life and the disappearance of magic in draconic bellies. They could've worked from their realms through proxies (avatars, champions, priests, priestesses, divine interventions, etc.) to further that plan and help Glint realize her designs to save Tyria.

 

To be perfectly honest, this is the same way gods, or ascendant beings, are portrayed in basically every medium. Stargate did the same with its "ancients", and Star Trek does the same with the Organians.

 

10 dollars says they know, or know of, some way to beat the Elder Dragons without screwing up the planet, they just wont tell us because "we are supposed to stand on our two feet and figure it out". Then, after its all over ,they will send some token avatar and be like "good job guys, we knew you could do it!"

[Harper.4173]

> @Rognik.2579 said:

> > @Harper.4173 said:

> > 3. Balthazar was never good - but he was never bad either. Let's not forget that - Balthazar was on humanity's side - it's him that helped them conquer lands on Tyria in the first place. It feels off. The way they've written it feels very off considering old GW1 lore.

> This here is part of the problem. He was on *human*ity's side. Not asuran, not norn, and definitely not charr or sylvari (them being dragon minions and all). You character might be a human and that's fine and all, but we all need to live here and him beating up dragons is not good for any of us, including humans.

 

So why is him being on humanity's side a problem? Why does everyone have to be on everyone else's side in GW2?

The norn have their own spirits that aid and guide them. The asura have their own thing with the Eternal Alchemy and superior magitech. The charr have a huge military industrial complex. None of that was taken away.

The point here is that each race has unique attributes and things going for them. The humans had the gods.

I'm not saying that we should have let him beat up the dragon and blow up Tyria - I'm saying WHY did they write the gods off and write him into such a cliche in the first place.