Suggestion: Buying Expansion Should Unlock LS Up To that Expansion

[Tasida.4085]

I like how the system is.......and if you missed/missing a LS then you should have to buy it. You continue support for the game in this manner. Just log in when there's future releases and get them for free then. And leave S1 in the past to focus on new content for EVERYONE. I and many like me were there and don't want to live it again when new content awaits.

[Lord Krilik.3692]

> @"joneirikb.7506" said:

> > @"Lord Krilik.3692" said:

> > > @"joneirikb.7506" said:

> > > I think the system is fair, considering they do actually give them away to players that log on (player retention), that is more than fair, how many other MMO's you know of that gives away new content just to keep you logging in, with no monthly fee?

> > >

> > > The price itself is reasonable, had to buy up a couple of them myself after taking breaks.

> > >

> > > I think the thing that causes the most "problems" are that players are so used to other MMO/Games, where all the story comes in expansion packs, so they don't think/consider that this game does it slightly differently. So I'm betting that a lot of players play through the Personal Story, then stumbles into the Hero panel/story, and enables HOT or POF and skips completely past where it says Living Season 1/2.

> > >

> > > ANet could be better at communicating this, in-game. Definitively. But I don't think that shows something wrong with the current economy model.

> >

> > for those who don't get them for free during the log in window then I definitely understand their reason to sell the LW episodes. I think the issue is that the expac stories don't offer enough context if you jump into them without having done the bridging LW episodes. There is a reliance on buying those packs to understand the story properly., rather than them being additional story DLC in the traditional sense. I would say they either need to get better at creating the exacs in a way that should still be accessible to those without the LW or they need to better market them as bundles. For example, whenever they do a sale of expacs and bundle the 2 together, why don't they make a bundle with the LW included as well?

>

>

> So honestly, think most of this is just miss-communication from ANet, and players getting confused because they expect things done in a more traditional way/name.

 

I wanted to highlight this last part of your reply because I think we are in agreement. When I say they should better market them, what i mean is that they totally come across as optional, skippable content. Especially when up against actual expansion packs. I don't think we can really blame people for thinking that either. Those LW packs should be highlighted on the website too with pages to properly sell what they are about. Their expacs having their own websites are also strange. Put all the info on the main site. It's easier to find then.

[zealex.9410]

> @"Ayakaru.6583" said:

> > @"Haishao.6851" said:

> > > @"Ayakaru.6583" said:

> > > I think they buying any expansion should trigger the conversation "also buy the prequel or sequel chapter for 50% discount".

> > >

> > > With HoT, LS2 should be offered, and with PoF; LS3.

> > > LS4 seems sufficient of a standalone, unless of course it's finale is critical for expansion 3.

> > >

> > > But it seems weird that you can play LS2 which is about the waking of Mordremoth without HoT, but need HoT to play season 3 which is a prequel to PoF...

> >

> > Would make no sense to require the sequel to play its prequel.

> >

> >

>

> But that is its current model.

> You need HoT to play PoF's prequel which makes no sense at all.

> Instead, when buying an expansion, it should prompt you to buy the prequel if you don't already have it

 

Makes sense considering se3 takes places in hot areas at points and directly continues the events of hot.

[zealex.9410]

> @"yann.1946" said:

> OR something like unlock alle the episodes you couldn't have unlocked. (So basicly alle the existing once when you buy the game.)

>

> the system is Both extremely fair to veterans while extremely unfair for new players.

 

Whats extremely unfair for new commers? U are bound to get 1 episode for free at all tomes when you log in, even if you dont have the expansion u store said episode and each episode is incredibly cheap and farmable in game.

 

 

[particlepinata.9865]

That will be difficult, ls3 is tied together to the Hot masteries, just like Ls4 is to the Pof masteries/mounts. I think a better idea is to give every expac buyer of one of the two the apropiate unlocks for the season after it. In my opinion season 2 should be a free unlock now for all two expacs, its been 4 years now since it released.

[particlepinata.9865]

That will be difficult, ls3 is tied together to the Hot masteries, just like Ls4 is to the Pof masteries/mounts. I think a better idea is to give every expac buyer of one of the two the apropiate unlocks for the season after it. In my opinion season 2 should be a free unlock now for all two expacs, its been 4 years now since it released. I unlocked all of them in the past, but would be nice if newbies also got it, the more players on the ls maps, the better.

[mindcircus.1506]

> @"Gotejjeken.1267" said:

> Just something I thought of, admittedly somewhat selfishly as I'm missing the Flashpoint LS. I recently bought PoF, and thought it'd be cool that if you purchased an expansion you unlocked the story up to that point.

>

> Basically in my case for Flashpoint you'd have to own HoT (which I do), and when purchasing PoF it just unlocks the LS up to when PoF came out. Missing any of the PoF LS would be locked unless you buy it after the fact or until the next expansion comes out.

>

> I wouldn't even care if they made it as part of the 'deluxe' versions (like they do with char slots).

>

> Thoughts?

 

Thoughts...

If you didn't log in to get it for free, it's like what? 3 dollars?... 4?

 

Come on...

[Vayne.8563]

> @"mindcircus.1506" said:

> > @"Gotejjeken.1267" said:

> > Just something I thought of, admittedly somewhat selfishly as I'm missing the Flashpoint LS. I recently bought PoF, and thought it'd be cool that if you purchased an expansion you unlocked the story up to that point.

> >

> > Basically in my case for Flashpoint you'd have to own HoT (which I do), and when purchasing PoF it just unlocks the LS up to when PoF came out. Missing any of the PoF LS would be locked unless you buy it after the fact or until the next expansion comes out.

> >

> > I wouldn't even care if they made it as part of the 'deluxe' versions (like they do with char slots).

> >

> > Thoughts?

>

> Thoughts...

> If you didn't log in to get it for free, it's like what? 3 dollars?... 4?

>

> Come on...

 

It's not so much the price as the knowledge. That is people buy the expansions not knowing they're missing story or that they'd have to spend more money. This can leave a bad taste in people's mouths.

 

Some people, a minority, come for forums and research games. Others just buy stuff and expect to get the game. I'm buying both expansions, I should have everything. I run a pretty big guild now, and I've lost count of the number of people I've had to explain the living world to and why they have to buy it. More needs to be done to make it known that this stuff even exists at the point of purchase.

[Tanner Blackfeather.6509]

> @"Vayne.8563" said:

> It's not so much the price as the knowledge. That is people buy the expansions not knowing they're missing story or that they'd have to spend more money. This can leave a bad taste in people's mouths.

>

This!

 

Coming as a new player, the impression you get is that this game is a 3 chapter thing so far - Base (free), HoT (expansion), PoF (expansion)

In reality it's a 7 chapter thing:

* Base - free

* LS1 - unavailable

* LS2 - non-obvious purchase until you get to it

* HoT - expansion

* LS3 - as LS2

* PoF - expansion

* LS4 - as LS3 but ongoing

 

The main problem is that these separate purchases are not made clear enough until you hit that point in the story.

 

When I purchased HoT to upgrade my free account (pre LS3 began) I was under the impression that I had gotten all story there was. The need to purchase LS2 separately felt a bit like holding the expansion I had just purchased "hostage" - sure, I could play it, but it'd be like skipping a chapter of a book.

 

This is really only getting more confusing with each season for new players.

 

tl;dr Imagine buying a book series - you buy a bundle of three books only to realize it's actually books 1, 4 and 6, while books 3 and 5 are sold separately and book 2 is permanetly out of print.

[Ayakaru.6583]

> @"Haishao.6851" said:

> > @"Ayakaru.6583" said:

> > > @"Haishao.6851" said:

> > > > @"Ayakaru.6583" said:

> > > > I think they buying any expansion should trigger the conversation "also buy the prequel or sequel chapter for 50% discount".

> > > >

> > > > With HoT, LS2 should be offered, and with PoF; LS3.

> > > > LS4 seems sufficient of a standalone, unless of course it's finale is critical for expansion 3.

> > > >

> > > > But it seems weird that you can play LS2 which is about the waking of Mordremoth without HoT, but need HoT to play season 3 which is a prequel to PoF...

> > >

> > > Would make no sense to require the sequel to play its prequel.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > But that is its current model.

> > You need HoT to play PoF's prequel which makes no sense at all.

> > Instead, when buying an expansion, it should prompt you to buy the prequel if you don't already have it

>

> That's not how the story work.

> You need HoT for LS3 because LS3 is the follow up to HoT. They are directly linked together. LS3 starts like 1 week or so after the last HoT mission and the entire story is about events related to Mordremoth's death. It's a Prequel to PoF because it happen before PoF but it's completely unrelated to PoF until the very last moment when Balthazar go to the Crystal Desert.

>

> What you're asking is buying PoF and have the second half of HoT included.

>

>

>

 

What event, name just one, in season 3, is related to HoT, and not to PoF?

Because as far as I know, S3 is all about Lazarus’, chasing signals of dragons, and finding out about Balthazar, and why killing dragons is bad.

There is zero tying into the HoT story beyond the general sense. Everything is about Jormag, Primordus, and Lazalthazar, and thus is a prequel of PoF. You can entirely understand the story and all events in S3 without even knowing HoT exists

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @"Vayne.8563" said:

> More needs to be done to make it known that this stuff even exists at the point of purchase.

Yeah, I still feel as if there is a surprising amount of low-hanging fruit for ANet in terms of using existing tools to set people's expectations better. Sometimes I feel as if they are thinking, "well we told them this once during a blog post in 2014, so everyone should know by now."

 

 

 

 

[yann.1946]

> @"zealex.9410" said:

> > @"yann.1946" said:

> > OR something like unlock alle the episodes you couldn't have unlocked. (So basicly alle the existing once when you buy the game.)

> >

> > the system is Both extremely fair to veterans while extremely unfair for new players.

>

> Whats extremely unfair for new commers? U are bound to get 1 episode for free at all tomes when you log in, even if you dont have the expansion u store said episode and each episode is incredibly cheap and farmable in game.

>

>

 

We'll 1 episode is. The complete set of episodes a lot less. It feels unfair because when they buy the game, it feels like they have to buy something which they had no chance to get the normal way

[zealex.9410]

> @"yann.1946" said:

> > @"zealex.9410" said:

> > > @"yann.1946" said:

> > > OR something like unlock alle the episodes you couldn't have unlocked. (So basicly alle the existing once when you buy the game.)

> > >

> > > the system is Both extremely fair to veterans while extremely unfair for new players.

> >

> > Whats extremely unfair for new commers? U are bound to get 1 episode for free at all tomes when you log in, even if you dont have the expansion u store said episode and each episode is incredibly cheap and farmable in game.

> >

> >

>

> We'll 1 episode is. The complete set of episodes a lot less. It feels unfair because when they buy the game, it feels like they have to buy something which they had no chance to get the normal way

 

Ok and? They can farm for it and so long as they play they will get to unlock new stuff. Unlile other mmos u dont have to pay a sub fee and these updates arent exclusively paid rl money dlcs

[kurfu.5623]

I prefer the current system, as opposed to paying a monthly subscription fee.

 

 

[Bloodstealer.5978]

> @"Vayne.8563" said:

> > @"mindcircus.1506" said:

> > > @"Gotejjeken.1267" said:

> > > Just something I thought of, admittedly somewhat selfishly as I'm missing the Flashpoint LS. I recently bought PoF, and thought it'd be cool that if you purchased an expansion you unlocked the story up to that point.

> > >

> > > Basically in my case for Flashpoint you'd have to own HoT (which I do), and when purchasing PoF it just unlocks the LS up to when PoF came out. Missing any of the PoF LS would be locked unless you buy it after the fact or until the next expansion comes out.

> > >

> > > I wouldn't even care if they made it as part of the 'deluxe' versions (like they do with char slots).

> > >

> > > Thoughts?

> >

> > Thoughts...

> > If you didn't log in to get it for free, it's like what? 3 dollars?... 4?

> >

> > Come on...

>

> It's not so much the price as the knowledge. That is people buy the expansions not knowing they're missing story or that they'd have to spend more money. This can leave a bad taste in people's mouths.

>

> Some people, a minority, come for forums and research games. Others just buy stuff and expect to get the game. I'm buying both expansions, I should have everything. I run a pretty big guild now, and I've lost count of the number of people I've had to explain the living world to and why they have to buy it. More needs to be done to make it known that this stuff even exists at the point of purchase.

 

Agree with this.. it's about new players joining the GW2 community only to find they are almost instantly hit with a series of additional costs when they thought they had bought it already.

I understand the reasoning behind the LS charging, but like with core game when new players buy they get HoT included now so at the very least the system should be consistent and offer all LS up to that point and likewise if you purchase PoF and already have HoT then all LS should be available up to that point.. beyond all players fall into the same logging or pay system, which is fair imo.

The fact is new players don't get the opportunity to login during a window of opportunity for previous LS like we did so the system really ought to be a little fairer.

Maybe another way would be for new accounts to have trigger points like the birthday system, so that when they finish the personal story their is a pause and then a trigger mail similar to how we get with each update currently suddenly pops up stating the account must be logged back in during x-y dates to receive the next LS update or they will then be charged.. rinse repeat after completing each phase. If they don't login during that window then its like it is now.

 

EDIT - Having never needed to purchase any LS updates I have no idea how much each costs.. but then again I think that is irrelevant anyway :)

[maddoctor.2738]

First, about the topic title. Unlocking all the content up to an expansion, when you buy it, has one problem. The content of LS3 is tied to Heart of Thorns, you need Heart of Thorns specific mastery abilities to move around the maps, the story continues from Heart of Thorns and so on. Getting access to LS3 when you buy Path of Fire won't work.

 

Now, for your more specific example, someone that has Heart of Thorns AND Path of Fire, yes those should get access to the in-between content (LS3). This, I agree with and is something that should benefit the game as a whole. When the next expansion is released, if someone buys it AND has Path of Fire (or buys that at the same time), then LS4 should become available to them.

 

But in no way, should anyone buying an expansion get access to all the previous LS, without having the previous expansion as well.

[thruine.8510]

Living Story is content that has to be paid for. It doesn't just spring out of thin air. They could do a better job of highlighting it as an actual product that players (especially new ones) would want so perhaps before going for an expansion go for it first. Eventually I think they will just bundle it with an expansion purchase. I'm also sure eventually the old expansions themselves will be bundled. I bought GW1 and everything for it in one purchase. But no one, not even those of us who currently are getting Living World content for free deserve to benefit from someone else's work. Its nice they give current players the episodes. But we aren't entitled to it no matter how much we've logged in before hand. And certainly not entitled to it just because we decide to purchase another product.

 

Also, if you go to your story panel, it shows everything (with the option to purchase) in order if folks want things in order. It was the guide I used to make purchases after I started. Biggest complaint I have is being unable to play and purchases Season 1 but I understand why. I wish they'd forget about looking for ways to bring it all back but just get the most information and character met ups as possible so we aren't forever stuck with a synopsis of events. And I expect to purchase it. Living World may be tied to this expansion or that one but they are their own separate things. The day will come when you purchase PoF and get them all along with HoT. It eventually always happens.

 

And its rather nice to have something, if you want it, that bridges gaps between expansions that doesn't just drop us in cold. I'm sure HoT would have made enough sense without Season 2 but it was nice to have.

[Haishao.6851]

> @"Ayakaru.6583" said:

> > @"Haishao.6851" said:

> > > @"Ayakaru.6583" said:

> > > > @"Haishao.6851" said:

> > > > > @"Ayakaru.6583" said:

> > > > > I think they buying any expansion should trigger the conversation "also buy the prequel or sequel chapter for 50% discount".

> > > > >

> > > > > With HoT, LS2 should be offered, and with PoF; LS3.

> > > > > LS4 seems sufficient of a standalone, unless of course it's finale is critical for expansion 3.

> > > > >

> > > > > But it seems weird that you can play LS2 which is about the waking of Mordremoth without HoT, but need HoT to play season 3 which is a prequel to PoF...

> > > >

> > > > Would make no sense to require the sequel to play its prequel.

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > But that is its current model.

> > > You need HoT to play PoF's prequel which makes no sense at all.

> > > Instead, when buying an expansion, it should prompt you to buy the prequel if you don't already have it

> >

> > That's not how the story work.

> > You need HoT for LS3 because LS3 is the follow up to HoT. They are directly linked together. LS3 starts like 1 week or so after the last HoT mission and the entire story is about events related to Mordremoth's death. It's a Prequel to PoF because it happen before PoF but it's completely unrelated to PoF until the very last moment when Balthazar go to the Crystal Desert.

> >

> > What you're asking is buying PoF and have the second half of HoT included.

> >

> >

> >

>

> What event, name just one, in season 3, is related to HoT, and not to PoF?

> Because as far as I know, S3 is all about Lazarus’, chasing signals of dragons, and finding out about Balthazar, and why killing dragons is bad.

> There is zero tying into the HoT story beyond the general sense. Everything is about Jormag, Primordus, and Lazalthazar, and thus is a prequel of PoF. You can entirely understand the story and all events in S3 without even knowing HoT exists

 

**LS3E1 Out of the Shadows:**

_~Eir's Memorial in Hoelbrak_ - Is about Eir's Death in Prisoners of the Dragon Mission from HoT and the creation of Dragon's Watch guild

_~Research in Rata Novus_ - Entirely happen in Rata Novus and is about Taimi's discovery on the energy released by Mordremoth's death.

_~Blood and Stone_ - Almorra comes ask us to become the pact leader after Trahearne's death from the last mission of HoT. We then leave Rata Novus and get caught in the explosion above Bloodstone Fen, which is right north of Verdant Brinks.

_~A Shadow's Deeds_ - While investigating the bottom of the crater, Caithe arrives and we talk about her wyld hunt against Mordremoth and why she ran away with Glint's egg.

 

**LS3E2 Rising Flames:**

_~Taimi's Game_ - Starts in Rata Novus and we play Taimi's Simulation against destroyers. She also talks about her research on Chak organs and we learn that Destroyer are stronger because of energy left by the death of Zaithan and Mordremoth.

_~Dragon Vigil_ - We get a vision from Glint's Egg and go back to Tarir to learn it's about to hatch. Destroyers appear so we defend it. Marjory leaves with Balthazarus and Caithe stay behind. We learn the dragon will be named Aurene.

 

**LS3E3 A Crack in the Ice:**

_~Precocious Aurene_ - We play and train with Aurene in Tarir

_~Journey to Bitterfrost Frontier_ - We go to Bitterfrost Frontier to find an Ice Brood enhanced by Zaithan and Mordremoth energy because Taimi has a plan to make both Jormag and Primordus fight each other.

_~Frozen Out_ - See Braham for the first time since the end of HoT and talk about it and his mother and the new Dragon's Watch Guild.

 

**LS3E5 Flashpoint:**

_~Taimi's Pet Project_ - We go back to Rata Novus to see Taimi's device which she says works off the heart of Omadd's Machine (LS2). Balthazarus arrives and run away with the device.

_~Heart of the Volcano_ - We get into the volcano and Taimi shows up with her new Scuffy 2.0 and our character mention it's repaired since it was broken when entering Rata Novus in HoT

 

Now for the relation of LS3 to PoF

 

**LS3E6 One Path Ends:**

_~The Last Chance_ - We consult the Eye of Jantir and get a vision of Balthazar in the Crystal Desert. The very first mention of Crystal Desert is the very last line of Season 3 "The flames... Balthazar... OK. Looks like I'm going to the Crystal Desert."

 

The story leads to PoF because Balthazar runs off to the Crystal Desert. That's it.

LS3 uses assets from HoT, it use maps from HoT, it uses the Mastery system of HoT, and the story is directly related to the event of HoT. You need HoT to play it because LS3 is related to HoT

LS4 is entirely related to PoF. It Uses the Assets from PoF, Maps from PoF, the mastery system of PoF, and the story is directly related to the event of PoF. It will ultimately lead to either LS5 or the next expansion. Like a Tome 4 leads to Tome 5.

 

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

Just showing my support to this, not because of me, I've everything via login, but because of new players.

Few days ago I bought the expansions to someone from my family thinking she would get everything unlocked just to find out you've to shell extra € to unlock the LS.

What's even the point of selling something incomplete?!

Players who bought the expansions will be clueless storywise...

 

[Haishao.6851]

> @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> Just showing my support to this, not because of me, I've everything via login, but because of new players.

> Few days ago I bought the expansions to someone from my family thinking she would get everything unlocked just to find out you've to shell extra € to unlock the LS.

> What's even the point of selling something incomplete?!

> Players who bought the expansions will be clueless storywise...

>

 

You'd have to pay extra anyway since it's not free content unless you get it when it's live. The expansion would just be priced higher to make up for the LS cost. And people who already have some episode unlocked would be forced to pay that extra for content they already have just to accommodate a few people who can't buy them with gems, or gold.

 

[slayerking.3581]

> @"Haishao.6851" said:

>

> You'd have to pay extra anyway since it's not free content unless you get it when it's live. The expansion would just be priced higher to make up for the LS cost. And people who already have some episode unlocked would be forced to pay that extra for content they already have just to accommodate a few people who can't buy them with gems, or gold.

>

Up until a couple of years ago LS was FREE! You didn't need to login while it was active or anything else it was FREE.

If you were to buy the game today, You would be pissed when you got in game and saw you had to buy the content after you just paid for the game.

 

[Haishao.6851]

> @"slayerking.3581" said:

> > @"Haishao.6851" said:

> >

> > You'd have to pay extra anyway since it's not free content unless you get it when it's live. The expansion would just be priced higher to make up for the LS cost. And people who already have some episode unlocked would be forced to pay that extra for content they already have just to accommodate a few people who can't buy them with gems, or gold.

> >

> Up until a couple of years ago LS was FREE! You didn't need to login while it was active or anything else it was FREE.

> If you were to buy the game today, You would be pissed when you got in game and saw you had to buy the content after you just paid for the game.

>

 

Yes, LS1 was entirely free. You still needed to login while it was active because it was a 1 time be-there-or-miss-it-forever deal.

 

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @"Haishao.6851" said:

> > @"slayerking.3581" said:

> > > @"Haishao.6851" said:

> > >

> > > You'd have to pay extra anyway since it's not free content unless you get it when it's live. The expansion would just be priced higher to make up for the LS cost. And people who already have some episode unlocked would be forced to pay that extra for content they already have just to accommodate a few people who can't buy them with gems, or gold.

> > >

> > Up until a couple of years ago LS was FREE! You didn't need to login while it was active or anything else it was FREE.

> > If you were to buy the game today, You would be pissed when you got in game and saw you had to buy the content after you just paid for the game.

> >

>

> Yes, LS1 was entirely free. You needed to login while it was active because it was a 1 time be-there-or-miss-it-forever deal.

 

That plus ANet specifically changed their funding model because the gem shop alone wasn't generating enough income to keep progressing the game in the manner to which we have become accustomed. They can charge more for expansions and less for LS or more for LS and less for expansions. They can't charge less for both.

[mbhalo.1547]

I always get baffled by these type of posts. You get expansion for the price of the launch and you still demand free stuff...