Diatribe on Joko and his purpose in the LWS4 story. Ep 3 Spoilers.

[Tyson.5160]

> @"Fenom.9457" said:

> The episode was a step forward in character dialogue but a bit back on overall plot. Good, not great

 

Noticed that a lot of people feel the plot was weak, I was alright with it. People are also saying that Scarlet had more screen time which I disagree with, if actually look it up on the wiki, Joko has many interactions during PoF and LW season 4. Like Scarlet he is also in a fractal. Then you have all his interactions from gw1. So really Joko has way more screen time and lore investment then Scarlet did.

 

Then again people said Scarlet had too much screen time and Joko not enough, I don’t know can’t please everyone I guess.

[Randulf.7614]

> @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > @"Fenom.9457" said:

> > The episode was a step forward in character dialogue but a bit back on overall plot. Good, not great

>

> Noticed that a lot of people feel the plot was weak, I was alright with it. People are also saying that Scarlet had more screen time which I disagree with, if actually look it up on the wiki, Joko has many interactions during PoF and LW season 4. Like Scarlet he is also in a fractal. Then you have all his interactions from gw1. So really Joko has way more screen time and lore investment then Scarlet did.

>

> Then again people said Scarlet had too much screen time and Joko not enough, I don’t know can’t please everyone I guess.

 

I'm not sure if it's right that she had more actual screentime, but her involvement in the arc for better or worst certainly was longer and presided over many more events (Festivals, Nightmare Tower, Secret Lair, all the alliance stuff, Marionette, Battle for LA, waking of Mordremoth). The issue was nothing felt connected due to a lack of a narrative. Scarlet had great potential, but was a squandered opportunity - some may argue more than any other villain. Here we had a strong narrative building with Joko and the Plague, but, the danger seemed to be killed off too soon and too easily.

[Tyson.5160]

Joko, probably had equal to or more time then Balthazar, I suppose, unless you count him in his other form. I guess the difference would be you fight Balthazar way more then any villain.

[Tyson.5160]

> @"Randulf.7614" said:

> > @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > > @"Fenom.9457" said:

> > > The episode was a step forward in character dialogue but a bit back on overall plot. Good, not great

> >

> > Noticed that a lot of people feel the plot was weak, I was alright with it. People are also saying that Scarlet had more screen time which I disagree with, if actually look it up on the wiki, Joko has many interactions during PoF and LW season 4. Like Scarlet he is also in a fractal. Then you have all his interactions from gw1. So really Joko has way more screen time and lore investment then Scarlet did.

> >

> > Then again people said Scarlet had too much screen time and Joko not enough, I don’t know can’t please everyone I guess.

>

> I'm not sure if it's right that she had more actual screentime, but her involvement in the arc for better or worst certainly was longer and presided over many more events (Festivals, Nightmare Tower, Secret Lair, all the alliance stuff, Marionette, Battle for LA, waking of Mordremoth). The issue was nothing felt connected due to a lack of a narrative. Scarlet had great potential, but was a squandered opportunity - some may argue more than any other villain. Here we had a strong narrative building with Joko and the Plague, but, the danger seemed to be killed off too soon and too easily.

 

We could deal with some plague current events between now and next release as it’s still out there in gen 1 and Gen 2.

[foozlesprite.8051]

> @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> (snip)

> I think the most annoying thing is that all my greatest S3 and S4 disappointments come from the same LW team. S3E3, S3E6, and now S4E3. The third team.

 

Out of curiosity, where are you all finding out which team is writing each episode? Is it just that they have three LW teams and one writes 1&4, one writes 2&5, and one writes 3&6? And is it just the writers, or also the artists, map designers, programmers, etc. that are assigned to those same episodes as well?

 

Also, I completely agree with just about every point you made regarding the plot choices. Joko is written off as a funny gag by a lot of people, but if you listen to some of the stuff he says _while_ he's joking, it's awful. To hear him drop that guise, to pick you apart seriously, was terrifying.

 

If I was the Commander I would have depression, anxiety, and PTSD already and god, he just twisted the knife, took it back out, switched to a more jagged rusty one, and stabbed us again. Even if they never touch Joko himself again, they had better not discount the serious effect this is going to have on the already-snappy, already-guilt-ridden Commander.

[Aaron Ansari.1604]

> @"foozlesprite.8051" said:

> > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > (snip)

> > I think the most annoying thing is that all my greatest S3 and S4 disappointments come from the same LW team. S3E3, S3E6, and now S4E3. The third team.

>

> Out of curiosity, where are you all finding out which team is writing each episode? Is it just that they have three LW teams and one writes 1&4, one writes 2&5, and one writes 3&6? And is it just the writers, or also the artists, map designers, programmers, etc. that are assigned to those same episodes as well?

 

It was mentioned in their AMA's and streams back in S3- I think the last time they directly acknowledged it was just after Flashpoint- that they had three teams working on that season in a rotation, with each one responsible for different episodes, so that they could hit their 2-3 month cadence while still providing episodes that represent 6-9 months of work. To my knowledge, we haven't heard anything since, so Konig is either assuming there that they're using the same model for S4, which is not an unreasonable guess since they're using the same cadence, or he's seen something that I haven't in the twitch streams that I skip.

 

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

> @"Tyson.5160" said:

> Then again people said Scarlet had too much screen time and Joko not enough, I don’t know can’t please everyone I guess.

 

> @"Tyson.5160" said:

> Joko, probably had equal to or more time then Balthazar, I suppose, unless you count him in his other form. I guess the difference would be you fight Balthazar way more then any villain.

 

Joko showed up once in PoF for a few minutes, once in A Bug in the System for a few minutes, and had interactions during the first instance, village sub-step, and final instance of Long Live the Lich. I wouldn't really count the statue recordings in LLtL because they're just recordings and not active interactions. That's five showings.

 

Balthazar we met in four instances in S3 (once in Ep1, once in Ep2, twice in Ep3), and then thrice in Path of Fire (Sacrifice, Departing, final battle). That's 7 showings. 8 if you count Beast of War and To Kill A God as separate showings, though I wouldn't personally.

 

Scarlet showed up in three instances during Queen's Jubilee/Clockwork Chaos, in all her invasion events, reactive recordings in Twilight Assault, in Tower of Nightmares, in Thaumanova reactor, had direct reactionary talks during Twisted Marionette, and of course during Battle for LA. We then had post-mortem recordings in Season 2 twice. We could also count her recordings during A Study in Scarlet and taunting in DR during Clockwork Chaos/in ToN zone but that's like the open world statues for Joko. So that's 9/10 interactions.

 

5, 7/8, and 9/10 interactions.

 

Balthazar wasn't so bad, but Joko was half of what Scarlet got.

 

I wouldn't say Scarlet got "too much screentime", but rather that she was a poorly developed character so people didn't like her, and as a character people didn't enjoy or find interesting, she got too much focus. Had the three largest flaws in her character not have existed, then she got the proper amount of screen time.

 

For fun: the flaws were 1) her background presented at her reveal, which made her out to be too perfect thus presented her as a mary sue villain; 2) constantly bad motivation writing and bending or breaking lore at nearly every major release in order to let Scarlet get away with whatever she did that month (looking at you, Toxic Alliance, and at you "she'd never attack us twice!" idiot ball handling captain's council); 3) the "British Harley Quinn" act that she was revealed with, with no clear motive in sight a mile wide beyond "chaos! chaos! chaos -british maniacal laughter-"

 

One thing Anet got right about Scarlet, is the one thing they've gotten wrong for almost every other villain: screentime before death.

 

> @"Aaron Ansari.1604" said:

> > @"foozlesprite.8051" said:

> > > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > > (snip)

> > > I think the most annoying thing is that all my greatest S3 and S4 disappointments come from the same LW team. S3E3, S3E6, and now S4E3. The third team.

> >

> > Out of curiosity, where are you all finding out which team is writing each episode? Is it just that they have three LW teams and one writes 1&4, one writes 2&5, and one writes 3&6? And is it just the writers, or also the artists, map designers, programmers, etc. that are assigned to those same episodes as well?

>

> It was mentioned in their AMA's and streams back in S3- I think the last time they directly acknowledged it was just after Flashpoint- that they had three teams working on that season in a rotation, with each one responsible for different episodes, so that they could hit their 2-3 month cadence while still providing episodes that represent 6-9 months of work. To my knowledge, we haven't heard anything since, so Konig is either assuming there that they're using the same model for S4, which is not an unreasonable guess since they're using the same cadence, or he's seen something that I haven't in the twitch streams that I skip.

 

The former. There's nothing to suggest things got changed, since Head of the Snake's team would have gone straight to Daybreak. Some devs worked with two teams, I know from AMA comments, and some no doubt switched around, but overall the teams seemed to have stayed the same.

 

However, with the reason for Long Live the Lich's delay being a reorganization for better quality and speed, the teams' composition may have changed.

[Randulf.7614]

> @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > Then again people said Scarlet had too much screen time and Joko not enough, I don’t know can’t please everyone I guess.

>

> > @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > Joko, probably had equal to or more time then Balthazar, I suppose, unless you count him in his other form. I guess the difference would be you fight Balthazar way more then any villain.

>

> Joko showed up once in PoF for a few minutes, once in A Bug in the System for a few minutes, and had interactions during the first instance, village sub-step, and final instance of Long Live the Lich. I wouldn't really count the statue recordings in LLtL because they're just recordings and not active interactions. That's five showings.

>

> Balthazar we met in four instances in S3 (once in Ep1, once in Ep2, twice in Ep3), and then thrice in Path of Fire (Sacrifice, Departing, final battle). That's 7 showings. 8 if you count Beast of War and To Kill A God as separate showings, though I wouldn't personally.

>

> Scarlet showed up in three instances during Queen's Jubilee/Clockwork Chaos, in all her invasion events, reactive recordings in Twilight Assault, in Tower of Nightmares, in Thaumanova reactor, had direct reactionary talks during Twisted Marionette, and of course during Battle for LA. We then had post-mortem recordings in Season 2 twice. We could also count her recordings during A Study in Scarlet and taunting in DR during Clockwork Chaos/in ToN zone but that's like the open world statues for Joko. So that's 9/10 interactions.

>

> 5, 7/8, and 9/10 interactions.

>

> Balthazar wasn't so bad, but Joko was half of what Scarlet got.

>

> I wouldn't say Scarlet got "too much screentime", but rather that she was a poorly developed character so people didn't like her, and as a character people didn't enjoy or find interesting, she got too much focus. Had the three largest flaws in her character not have existed, then she got the proper amount of screen time.

>

> For fun: the flaws were 1) her background presented at her reveal, which made her out to be too perfect thus presented her as a mary sue villain; 2) constantly bad motivation writing and bending or breaking lore at nearly every major release in order to let Scarlet get away with whatever she did that month (looking at you, Toxic Alliance, and at you "she'd never attack us twice!" idiot ball handling captain's council); 3) the "British Harley Quinn" act that she was revealed with, with no clear motive in sight a mile wide beyond "chaos! chaos! chaos -british maniacal laughter-"

>

> One thing Anet got right about Scarlet, is the one thing they've gotten wrong for almost every other villain: screentime before death.

>

> > @"Aaron Ansari.1604" said:

> > > @"foozlesprite.8051" said:

> > > > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > > > (snip)

> > > > I think the most annoying thing is that all my greatest S3 and S4 disappointments come from the same LW team. S3E3, S3E6, and now S4E3. The third team.

> > >

> > > Out of curiosity, where are you all finding out which team is writing each episode? Is it just that they have three LW teams and one writes 1&4, one writes 2&5, and one writes 3&6? And is it just the writers, or also the artists, map designers, programmers, etc. that are assigned to those same episodes as well?

> >

> > It was mentioned in their AMA's and streams back in S3- I think the last time they directly acknowledged it was just after Flashpoint- that they had three teams working on that season in a rotation, with each one responsible for different episodes, so that they could hit their 2-3 month cadence while still providing episodes that represent 6-9 months of work. To my knowledge, we haven't heard anything since, so Konig is either assuming there that they're using the same model for S4, which is not an unreasonable guess since they're using the same cadence, or he's seen something that I haven't in the twitch streams that I skip.

>

> The former. There's nothing to suggest things got changed, since Head of the Snake's team would have gone straight to Daybreak. Some devs worked with two teams, I know from AMA comments, and some no doubt switched around, but overall the teams seemed to have stayed the same.

>

> However, with the reason for Long Live the Lich's delay being a reorganization for better quality and speed, the teams' composition may have changed.

 

Didn't they state in the recent AMA they re-merged the teams? They are no longer split or at the very least not like they were for ls3

[Tyson.5160]

> @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > Then again people said Scarlet had too much screen time and Joko not enough, I don’t know can’t please everyone I guess.

>

> > @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > Joko, probably had equal to or more time then Balthazar, I suppose, unless you count him in his other form. I guess the difference would be you fight Balthazar way more then any villain.

>

> Joko showed up once in PoF for a few minutes, once in A Bug in the System for a few minutes, and had interactions during the first instance, village sub-step, and final instance of Long Live the Lich. I wouldn't really count the statue recordings in LLtL because they're just recordings and not active interactions. That's five showings.

>

> Balthazar we met in four instances in S3 (once in Ep1, once in Ep2, twice in Ep3), and then thrice in Path of Fire (Sacrifice, Departing, final battle). That's 7 showings. 8 if you count Beast of War and To Kill A God as separate showings, though I wouldn't personally.

>

> Scarlet showed up in three instances during Queen's Jubilee/Clockwork Chaos, in all her invasion events, reactive recordings in Twilight Assault, in Tower of Nightmares, in Thaumanova reactor, had direct reactionary talks during Twisted Marionette, and of course during Battle for LA. We then had post-mortem recordings in Season 2 twice. We could also count her recordings during A Study in Scarlet and taunting in DR during Clockwork Chaos/in ToN zone but that's like the open world statues for Joko. So that's 9/10 interactions.

>

> 5, 7/8, and 9/10 interactions.

>

> Balthazar wasn't so bad, but Joko was half of what Scarlet got.

>

> I wouldn't say Scarlet got "too much screentime", but rather that she was a poorly developed character so people didn't like her, and as a character people didn't enjoy or find interesting, she got too much focus. Had the three largest flaws in her character not have existed, then she got the proper amount of screen time.

>

> For fun: the flaws were 1) her background presented at her reveal, which made her out to be too perfect thus presented her as a mary sue villain; 2) constantly bad motivation writing and bending or breaking lore at nearly every major release in order to let Scarlet get away with whatever she did that month (looking at you, Toxic Alliance, and at you "she'd never attack us twice!" idiot ball handling captain's council); 3) the "British Harley Quinn" act that she was revealed with, with no clear motive in sight a mile wide beyond "chaos! chaos! chaos -british maniacal laughter-"

>

> One thing Anet got right about Scarlet, is the one thing they've gotten wrong for almost every other villain: screentime before death.

>

> > @"Aaron Ansari.1604" said:

> > > @"foozlesprite.8051" said:

> > > > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > > > (snip)

> > > > I think the most annoying thing is that all my greatest S3 and S4 disappointments come from the same LW team. S3E3, S3E6, and now S4E3. The third team.

> > >

> > > Out of curiosity, where are you all finding out which team is writing each episode? Is it just that they have three LW teams and one writes 1&4, one writes 2&5, and one writes 3&6? And is it just the writers, or also the artists, map designers, programmers, etc. that are assigned to those same episodes as well?

> >

> > It was mentioned in their AMA's and streams back in S3- I think the last time they directly acknowledged it was just after Flashpoint- that they had three teams working on that season in a rotation, with each one responsible for different episodes, so that they could hit their 2-3 month cadence while still providing episodes that represent 6-9 months of work. To my knowledge, we haven't heard anything since, so Konig is either assuming there that they're using the same model for S4, which is not an unreasonable guess since they're using the same cadence, or he's seen something that I haven't in the twitch streams that I skip.

>

> The former. There's nothing to suggest things got changed, since Head of the Snake's team would have gone straight to Daybreak. Some devs worked with two teams, I know from AMA comments, and some no doubt switched around, but overall the teams seemed to have stayed the same.

>

> However, with the reason for Long Live the Lich's delay being a reorganization for better quality and speed, the teams' composition may have changed.

 

Joko also has dialogue in the two instances of Daybreak as well.

 

Edit: Very minor dialogue.

[Tyson.5160]

The thing with Joko, is how much he was reflected in the environment, starting from the Elon Riverlands to Kourna. He has giant statues of himself everywhere, which almost feels like his character is apart of those zones. You are constantly bombarded by these statues, his subjects and minions, which almost becomes extensions of himself.

[Ephemiel.5694]

> @"Blocki.4931" said:

> > @"Blocki.4931" said:

> > I don't think Joko deserved to die the way he did, but I believe it's the right way to have ended him. All his pompous arrogance, his empty threats after we have smashed his plans one by one and actually faced him directly, regardless of what he tried. He played his role and **died a way that he certainly wouldn't have liked**. The great Joko reduced to a meal for a dragon. On that note: The fact he was so surprised about Aurene in the first instance meant to me that he didn't expect her to be this large already. Yes, he should have known that there is a dragon about (it was never mentioned anywhere, was it?) but assuming he has his connections he would know. But he didn't factor in her growth spurt(s) after absorbing the magic. The flaw that would cost him his life.

> >

>

> I just want to pat myself on the back for being correct on at least part of this one :sunglasses:

 

I don't think you should because the statue we can find after finishing the mission VERY heavily suggests that he lets us kill him.

[Blocki.4931]

> @"Ephemiel.5694" said:

> > @"Blocki.4931" said:

> > > @"Blocki.4931" said:

> > > I don't think Joko deserved to die the way he did, but I believe it's the right way to have ended him. All his pompous arrogance, his empty threats after we have smashed his plans one by one and actually faced him directly, regardless of what he tried. He played his role and **died a way that he certainly wouldn't have liked**. The great Joko reduced to a meal for a dragon. On that note: The fact he was so surprised about Aurene in the first instance meant to me that he didn't expect her to be this large already. Yes, he should have known that there is a dragon about (it was never mentioned anywhere, was it?) but assuming he has his connections he would know. But he didn't factor in her growth spurt(s) after absorbing the magic. The flaw that would cost him his life.

> > >

> >

> > I just want to pat myself on the back for being correct on at least part of this one :sunglasses:

>

> I don't think you should because the statue we can find after finishing the mission VERY heavily suggests that he lets us kill him.

 

He also killed Balthazar and two elder dragons btw

[Ephemiel.5694]

> @"Blocki.4931" said:

> > @"Ephemiel.5694" said:

> > > @"Blocki.4931" said:

> > > > @"Blocki.4931" said:

> > > > I don't think Joko deserved to die the way he did, but I believe it's the right way to have ended him. All his pompous arrogance, his empty threats after we have smashed his plans one by one and actually faced him directly, regardless of what he tried. He played his role and **died a way that he certainly wouldn't have liked**. The great Joko reduced to a meal for a dragon. On that note: The fact he was so surprised about Aurene in the first instance meant to me that he didn't expect her to be this large already. Yes, he should have known that there is a dragon about (it was never mentioned anywhere, was it?) but assuming he has his connections he would know. But he didn't factor in her growth spurt(s) after absorbing the magic. The flaw that would cost him his life.

> > > >

> > >

> > > I just want to pat myself on the back for being correct on at least part of this one :sunglasses:

> >

> > I don't think you should because the statue we can find after finishing the mission VERY heavily suggests that he lets us kill him.

>

> He also killed Balthazar and two elder dragons btw

 

:/ the fact he even made that recording in case he died should be more than enough proof that he expected it or even manipulated everything so you'd kill him.

[castlemanic.3198]

> @"Randulf.7614" said:

> Didn't they state in the recent AMA they re-merged the teams? They are no longer split or at the very least not like they were for ls3

 

That statement was about the raid and fractal teams being merged. I havent heard of anything about the living world teams being merged.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

> @"Tyson.5160" said:

> The thing with Joko, is how much he was reflected in the environment, starting from the Elon Riverlands to Kourna. He has giant statues of himself everywhere, which almost feels like his character is apart of those zones. You are constantly bombarded by these statues, his subjects and minions, which almost becomes extensions of himself.

 

I highly disagree. Flame Legion are never considered an extension of Gaheron deapite the fact they constantly call upon their 'god' Balefire. And White Mantle who shout out foe their Unseen Ones are not considered extensionsof the character that is Lazarus.

 

There may be a lack of Gaheron or Lazarus statues but the difference of landscape is not lacking. I think Joko might have had such a presence only becauae of players stronger familiarity with him and the whole 'new land's bit. If anything. But it still isn't Joko taking a stage.

[Tyson.5160]

> @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > The thing with Joko, is how much he was reflected in the environment, starting from the Elon Riverlands to Kourna. He has giant statues of himself everywhere, which almost feels like his character is apart of those zones. You are constantly bombarded by these statues, his subjects and minions, which almost becomes extensions of himself.

>

> I highly disagree. Flame Legion are never considered an extension of Gaheron deapite the fact they constantly call upon their 'god' Balefire. And White Mantle who shout out foe their Unseen Ones are not considered extensionsof the character that is Lazarus.

>

> There may be a lack of Gaheron or Lazarus statues but the difference of landscape is not lacking. I think Joko might have had such a presence only because of players stronger familiarity with him and the whole 'new land's bit. If anything. But it still isn't Joko taking a stage.

 

That’s cool.

 

I personally didn’t get that feeling from the flame legion or white mantle. Maybe it’s because the awakened are so bound to Joko’s will and it’s always Joko this and Joko that. As well as the constant announcements in Vabbi and the rest of Kourna, I felt Joko was far more on display then any villain in Gw2.

 

It’s just how I felt while playing PoF and season 4, not sure if anyone else felt this, which is why, I have no issue with his death.

[Eekasqueak.7850]

> @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > > @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > > The thing with Joko, is how much he was reflected in the environment, starting from the Elon Riverlands to Kourna. He has giant statues of himself everywhere, which almost feels like his character is apart of those zones. You are constantly bombarded by these statues, his subjects and minions, which almost becomes extensions of himself.

> >

> > I highly disagree. Flame Legion are never considered an extension of Gaheron deapite the fact they constantly call upon their 'god' Balefire. And White Mantle who shout out foe their Unseen Ones are not considered extensionsof the character that is Lazarus.

> >

> > There may be a lack of Gaheron or Lazarus statues but the difference of landscape is not lacking. I think Joko might have had such a presence only because of players stronger familiarity with him and the whole 'new land's bit. If anything. But it still isn't Joko taking a stage.

>

> That’s cool.

>

> I personally didn’t get that feeling from the flame legion or white mantle. Maybe it’s because the awakened are so bound to Joko’s will and it’s always Joko this and Joko that. As well as the constant announcements in Vabbi and the rest of Kourna, I felt Joko was far more on display then any villain in Gw2.

>

> It’s just how I felt while playing PoF and season 4, not sure if anyone else felt this, which is why, I have no issue with his death.

 

I got the same impression really, to me he'd had enough time and I was glad to finally move on from him. Liches are an overdone villain type anyway. Honestly I'm hoping for less undead in general going forward, between the awakened, the mordrem plant ghouls and all the way back to risen I'm ready for something really new.

[Ephemiel.5694]

> @"Eekasqueak.7850" said:

> > @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > > > @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > > > The thing with Joko, is how much he was reflected in the environment, starting from the Elon Riverlands to Kourna. He has giant statues of himself everywhere, which almost feels like his character is apart of those zones. You are constantly bombarded by these statues, his subjects and minions, which almost becomes extensions of himself.

> > >

> > > I highly disagree. Flame Legion are never considered an extension of Gaheron deapite the fact they constantly call upon their 'god' Balefire. And White Mantle who shout out foe their Unseen Ones are not considered extensionsof the character that is Lazarus.

> > >

> > > There may be a lack of Gaheron or Lazarus statues but the difference of landscape is not lacking. I think Joko might have had such a presence only because of players stronger familiarity with him and the whole 'new land's bit. If anything. But it still isn't Joko taking a stage.

> >

> > That’s cool.

> >

> > I personally didn’t get that feeling from the flame legion or white mantle. Maybe it’s because the awakened are so bound to Joko’s will and it’s always Joko this and Joko that. As well as the constant announcements in Vabbi and the rest of Kourna, I felt Joko was far more on display then any villain in Gw2.

> >

> > It’s just how I felt while playing PoF and season 4, not sure if anyone else felt this, which is why, I have no issue with his death.

>

> I got the same impression really, to me he'd had enough time and I was glad to finally move on from him. Liches are an overdone villain type anyway. Honestly I'm hoping for less undead in general going forward, between the awakened, the mordrem plant ghouls and all the way back to risen I'm ready for something really new.

 

Because of how Elder Dragon magic works, you're gonna keep seeing undead till the end since Zhaitan was the first to go down.

[Ardid.7203]

I only read the first page of the thread, sorry.

I concur with a lot of the points people are making here, I just wanted to say:

1- IMO, while it was sudden and "deux-ish", I think the death of Joko was way better than those of Lazarus and Balthazar. At least it got some flavour.

2- Specific parasitic organism preying on different very specific host species on super specific stages of their development are quite common in real life. In fact you could say this is the ONLY point in the scarab plague they got right... Although the internal coherency of such lore still suffered a ton with each chapter.

2.1- It took me a lot to understand the scarabs weren't vectors for a disease, but they actually caused the pain and death themselves. IMO they should have called it the "Scarab Infestation", not the Scarab "plague", because AFAIK the word plague is properly associated with germs and infectious diseases, therefore it is wrong to use it for parasitic infestations.

[Aaron Ansari.1604]

> @"Ardid.7203" said:

 

> 2.1- It took me a lot to understand the scarabs weren't vectors for a disease, but they actually caused the pain and death themselves. IMO they should have called it the "Scarab Infestation", not the Scarab "plague", because AFAIK the word plague is properly associated with germs and infectious diseases, therefore it is wrong to use it for parasitic infestations.

 

Agreed, but I do like their reasoning here- that it got labeled a plague because the first time it showed up, almost nine hundred years ago, no one had a clue what they were looking at. As best they could tell, it _was_ an infectious disease, one that resulted in [the spontaneous generation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spontaneous_generation) of the scarabs that burst from the boils. Makes for a nice touch, the kind of unreliable narrator that exists in the name of verisimilitude instead of as a smokescreen for retcons.

[Ardid.7203]

I certainly can agree with that logic. Making something accurate doesn't always make it look more authentic. Although I would have loved Gorrik pointing the inaccuracy of the naming.

[Kitty.6219]

So... how was Amnoon cleared? is there a magical crystal mop? >.>

[Okami Amaterasu.9237]

My guess is between the beginning of Daybreak and by the end of A Bug in the System Amnoon hired all of the refugees from Balthazar's war campaign and Joko's tyrannical kingdom to help clean up the mess after all the Branded were slain, probably in exchange for new homes or jobs and such. I just wish it was mentioned a liiiiittle bit so there's more flow and merging between the episodes, making it all connect better. I liked how they did that with a certain someone's Sword in this new Episode though after Path of Fire and all, so that's nice.

[Boreas The North.1892]

I stopped playing after they killed Joko, had been having a lot of issues with the plot and characters for a while, but that absurdly weak writing was the final nail. In his moment of triumph, when he'd lured us there, made us underestimate his immortality, and just as we are about to lose, a goddamn, fucking plot device swoops in. I'm beyond hurt by how little it seems they care about providing any depth to the story.

[Tyson.5160]

> @"Boreas The North.1892" said:

> I stopped playing after they killed Joko, had been having a lot of issues with the plot and characters for a while, but that absurdly weak writing was the final nail. In his moment of triumph, when he'd lured us there, made us underestimate his immortality, and just as we are about to lose, a kitten, kitten plot device swoops in. I'm beyond hurt by how little it seems they care about providing any depth to the story.

 

After playing episode 4, I’m actually glad they killed Joko off, as the plot is becoming more interesting, especially if this is all we will ever see of Elona.

 

Poor Elonians can’t catch a break when it comes to shifting realities, first nightfall, now the dragon.