Would you like phantasms to be more like renegade?

[Artyport.2084]

Every since the game came out..

I've kinda hated phantasms. They never really felt great because I was always looking to shatter my clones.

They always felt hard to work with while at the same time using clones.

after the playing the renegade I realized that this is what they should have been like in the first place.

They shouldn't count in the clone bar and should be things we summon and attack and no longer persist.

having them stick around has made Mesmers hard to balance and kinda dysfunctional.

 

This would also help out elite specs like the mirage where I don't even really want to cast phantasms.

 

So would you like it if clones were fire and forget spells.

 

 

 

[Durzlla.6295]

I would love phantasms to be more like revenant summons, they show up, do their thing, and then die, or better yet, turn into a clone.

[PANIC ITS WILL.2748]

I've had similar thoughts.

The only thing I disagree with is the fact that they shouldn't count in the clone bar.

I think limiting the number of active illusions is way of potentially preventing the mesmer from being OP.

I do agree though that it would be nice to see more of a difference between Phantasms and Clones.

 

I think it would've been cool if Phantasms were originally designed as utility skills...

Like the Renegade's summons (cannot recall what they're actually called) it'd be nice if Phantasms could be these stationary-turret like illusion that provide some AoE capability. All of the current phantasm summon skills could easily summon a clone, instead, that performs an attack.

 

[Esplen.3940]

Warband ?

[OriOri.8724]

> @"PANIC ITS WILL.2748" said:

> I've had similar thoughts.

> The only thing I disagree with is the fact that they shouldn't count in the clone bar.

> I think limiting the number of active illusions is way of potentially preventing the mesmer from being OP.

> I do agree though that it would be nice to see more of a difference between Phantasms and Clones.

>

> I think it would've been cool if Phantasms were originally designed as utility skills...

> Like the Renegade's summons (cannot recall what they're actually called) it'd be nice if Phantasms could be these stationary-turret like illusion that provide some AoE capability. All of the current phantasm summon skills could easily summon a clone, instead, that performs an attack.

>

 

They should definitely still count as illusions, it allows mesmer more meaningful trait choices (assuming some traits were changed to support this change to phantasms), to focus on clones for shattering, or for phantasms for more persistent utility/damage (can still shatter, but lose all your setup when you do).

[PANIC ITS WILL.2748]

> @OriOri.8724 said:

> > @"PANIC ITS WILL.2748" said:

> > I've had similar thoughts.

> > The only thing I disagree with is the fact that they shouldn't count in the clone bar.

> > I think limiting the number of active illusions is way of potentially preventing the mesmer from being OP.

> > I do agree though that it would be nice to see more of a difference between Phantasms and Clones.

> >

> > I think it would've been cool if Phantasms were originally designed as utility skills...

> > Like the Renegade's summons (cannot recall what they're actually called) it'd be nice if Phantasms could be these stationary-turret like illusion that provide some AoE capability. All of the current phantasm summon skills could easily summon a clone, instead, that performs an attack.

> >

>

> They should definitely still count as illusions, it allows mesmer more meaningful trait choices (assuming some traits were changed to support this change to phantasms), to focus on clones for shattering, or for phantasms for more persistent utility/damage (can still shatter, but lose all your setup when you do).

 

My bad.

What a typo to make....

I'm 100% in agreement with you.

What I meant to say was "The only thing I disagree with is the fact that they should count in the clone bar."

[Swagg.9236]

I always thought that Phantasms should be part of the F skills and independent of targets, so that Mesmers could position them freely and play around them. Given how pet AI works in GW2, having Mesmers rely on the same sort of mechanic for their summons was bound to deny them creative play-styles.

[zealex.9410]

Oh pls god no.

[Arshay Duskbrow.1306]

Phantasms should've been minions from the very start, free to change targets and follow you around between mobs. Five years of a design mistake left to fester because of cowardice and laziness, that's where we are now.

[Yoseue.4251]

Let's keep this thread and discussion alive. When you're on Mirage one of your skills kinda becomes useless if you rely on clones to ambush..and that on each weaponset(depending on the build and playstyle). One time attacks which then become Illusions would be a simple to implement but not so easy to balance solution I guess...

[bart.3687]

I'm not sure, but in Everquest 2 there was an illusionist class that had its illusion up permanently and I think that it could deal some damage (didnt really play this game for too long tho so I might be wrong). I'd like to see this done to phantasm in gw2. Basically, you'd have your phantasm up all the time and it would deal some damage to your target every now and then. You would be able to command it to use special attacks with phantasm skills (for example: if you used Phantasmal Mage, your phantasm would burn your foe; if you used Disenchanter, it would fire that bouncing orb etc.). You wouldn't be able to shatter it, it would always change its target to your target and it would follow you around. Your enemies would be able to disable it for some time simply by dealing enough damage to it (it would be tankier than current phantasms tho so that it wouldnt get instantly disabled by some random aoe dmg).

[OriOri.8724]

> @"Arshay Duskbrow.1306" said:

> Phantasms should've been minions from the very start, free to change targets and follow you around between mobs. Five years of a design mistake left to fester because of cowardice and laziness, that's where we are now.

 

I have no problem with this, but it would require some balancing changes. Namely, we should only be allowed 1 of each phantasm. That way no opening on a target with 3 iDuelists using unload, or 3 iZerkers rushing through the target. Or possibly even just 1 offensive phantasm max, but they would need significant buffs for that

[Artyport.2084]

> @OriOri.8724 said:

> > @"Arshay Duskbrow.1306" said:

> > Phantasms should've been minions from the very start, free to change targets and follow you around between mobs. Five years of a design mistake left to fester because of cowardice and laziness, that's where we are now.

>

> I have no problem with this, but it would require some balancing changes. Namely, we should only be allowed 1 of each phantasm. That way no opening on a target with 3 iDuelists using unload, or 3 iZerkers rushing through the target. Or possibly even just 1 offensive phantasm max, but they would need significant buffs for that

 

yes.. I would like to get rid of having three phantasms. Id like them to use the ammo system where you shoot it out it does its trick and disappears and goes back on its charge. I don't need to have it constantly out doing nothing anyway as they are generally really slow.

I want to say I would like this to be a base Mesmer change not an elite spec change.

[Cantatus.4065]

> @Yoseue.4251 said:

> Let's keep this thread and discussion alive. When you're on Mirage one of your skills kinda becomes useless if you rely on clones to ambush..and that on each weaponset(depending on the build and playstyle). One time attacks which then become Illusions would be a simple to implement but not so easy to balance solution I guess...

 

I think there's a good argument to be made for why this would be a negative change to Mesmer, but adding something like this to Mirage would really set it apart and make it feel more unique compared to other Mesmer builds. Chronomancer has it so you can shatter and have a phantasm immediately resummon, meaning you don't have to worry about wasting them in a shatter. Mirage could have it so they turn into clones so you have more available for ambushes and maybe so ambushes could be balanced better vs. having 2-3 phantasms out. Even having it so this only happen on a shatter could make some interesting gameplay with Self-Deception. It's something that could open up Mirage to other changes to its playstyle to the point where it feels more like its own thing and not just a slightly different spin on a Mesmer.

[glenndevis.8327]

I'm still a fan of keeping phantasms & clones even out of combat.

Even though I guess hat would mess up a lot of hings balance wise.

 

There are too many skills that summon something that does a thing & then dissapears now. I'd be sad to see Phantasms to become the next Spirit Weapons.

I like the Idea of having them on a charge system though if Anet would decide to do it after all.

[Panda.1967]

I've been saying this since beta...

[Yoseue.4251]

> @Cantatus.4065 said:

>

> I think there's a good argument to be made for why this would be a negative change to Mesmer, but adding something like this to Mirage would really set it apart and make it feel more unique compared to other Mesmer builds. Chronomancer has it so you can shatter and have a phantasm immediately resummon, meaning you don't have to worry about wasting them in a shatter. Mirage could have it so they turn into clones so you have more available for ambushes and maybe so ambushes could be balanced better vs. having 2-3 phantasms out. Even having it so this only happen on a shatter could make some interesting gameplay with Self-Deception. It's something that could open up Mirage to other changes to its playstyle to the point where it feels more like its own thing and not just a slightly different spin on a Mesmer.

 

True thing about Chronomancer, however those traits could be reworked as well if phantasms were to be changed to be utility only(trigger the effect twice or something). I really like your idea about mirage turning phants into illusions after shatter. That would open up more variety for builds, combining phantasms and ambush when needed. Also it doesn't require fundamental mechanic changes.

[Artyport.2084]

> @Yoseue.4251 said:

> > @Cantatus.4065 said:

> >

> > I think there's a good argument to be made for why this would be a negative change to Mesmer, but adding something like this to Mirage would really set it apart and make it feel more unique compared to other Mesmer builds. Chronomancer has it so you can shatter and have a phantasm immediately resummon, meaning you don't have to worry about wasting them in a shatter. Mirage could have it so they turn into clones so you have more available for ambushes and maybe so ambushes could be balanced better vs. having 2-3 phantasms out. Even having it so this only happen on a shatter could make some interesting gameplay with Self-Deception. It's something that could open up Mirage to other changes to its playstyle to the point where it feels more like its own thing and not just a slightly different spin on a Mesmer.

>

> True thing about Chronomancer, however those traits could be reworked as well if phantasms were to be changed to be utility only(trigger the effect twice or something). I really like your idea about mirage turning phants into illusions after shatter. That would open up more variety for builds, combining phantasms and ambush when needed. Also it doesn't require fundamental mechanic changes.

 

Mesmer needs fundamental mechanic changes tho..

his idea is only a bandaid.

[Zenith.7301]

No, thanks. Why would you want your mechanic to mimick that of the other mechanically broken class in the game?

 

Renegade currently channels their elite on each legend until they run out of energy and swap. They don't have enough energy for any other utilities, and can barely squeeze the energy into their mace skills 2 and 3.

[Artyport.2084]

> @Zenith.7301 said:

> No, thanks. Why would you want your mechanic to mimick that of the other mechanically broken class in the game?

>

> Renegade currently channels their elite on each legend until they run out of energy and swap. They don't have enough energy for any other utilities, and can barely squeeze the energy into their mace skills 2 and 3.

 

that spec is broken because you don't have an option to swap out skills.

I'm not asking for energy here. I'm simpy asking for them to be. SPELLS that you cast that do a thing and go away. Having them constantly out.. especially for the mirage is not worth it.