Hell Nirvana.9045 Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 > @"DaShi.1368" said: > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > @"Zaklex.6308" said: > > > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > > > @"Zaklex.6308" said: > > > > > > @"Hyper Legend.3421" said: > > > > > > > @"Tolmos.8395" said: > > > > > > > > @"Zaklex.6308" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Zaklex.6308" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Zaklex.6308" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Zaklex.6308" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually, I'm disappointed in ArenaNet...and the vast majority of the GW community as well...this is 2018, we all need to move into the now and start learning to separate a persons freedom of speech on PERSONAL social media from what they say on BUSINESS related social media. This actually extends beyond social media and includes sports personal conduct clauses...what you or anyone does on their own PERSONAL time does not reflect on how well they perform a job. I'm going to be quite unpopular with the following, but all of this really started with the Ray Rice thing(look it up if you don't know about that) and the NFL. Now, before you think I condone any type of abuse against another person you'd be so far from the truth it would make me laugh, but having said that, even though what he did to his girlfriend in an elevator during the off-season was atrocious, I do not think it was anyone's business but his and hers alone. If you're going to hold someone else up as a role model, society has a serious issue, the only role models should be your parents(if you have them of course). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The only way society is going to advance is this way: what you do at work or while representing your employer is directly related to that employer; what you do or say on your own PERSONAL time has nothing to do with your employer and until the rest of the world learns this we're all screwed(that even includes if you reference your employer on your own PERSONAL social media handles). I DO NOT CARE what someone does on their own time, nor should anyone else but that person, even the employer should not care what that person does on their own PERSONAL time, but we as a society have forgotten how to separate work from personal time...that is what work hours are for, so those people unable to tell the difference can. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wake up world, this is 2018, not 1984 or 1950 or anyone other year...time to evolve or die out. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If the person, on their own time and personal social media accounts, is actively promoting themself as a company representative then they have decided to erase the line between personal and professional. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like I said, that's old school thinking, which almost everyone is still doing...either humankind evolves or it dies out, until humankind can learn to separate personal time from employee time...we as a society are screwed. I do not care if you mention in your private personal social media accounts who you work for, those are for your own private thoughts, I'm smart enough to realize they do not reflect the company you work for, but as we've all seen...there is another single person in America that is smart enough to be able to do that. I won't speak for the rest of the world...let me put my thinking into a simple example...I wear a uniform at work, while I'm wearing that uniform I am representing my employer, the minute I take off any part of the uniform that identifies my employer I am no on my PERSONAL time and I should be allowed to say anything I want that isn't illegal...even if completely contradicts my employers public image...that is the state the world needs to be in, separate the individual from the job, they are not the same thing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Right, but the person who chose to not separate the personal time from the professional was her. She chose to not evolve, as you put it, and suffered the, very unfortunate, consequences. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Apparently you're unable to comprehend what I'm saying...it isn't only the poster that has to do that, it's also the reader...EVERYONE needs to separate personal time from professional time, even if you list your professional associations on your PERSONAL social media...that is what I am saying. Let me put it this way, say you work an 8 - 5 job, what you say during those 8 - 5 hours reflects on your employer...anything you say outside of those hours, unless you're at a function representing your employer are your PERSONAL opinions and have no reflection on your employer....that is how we as a society need to evolve. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There's a very obvious fine line on this limitation though. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree with the seperation of work and private life.. I've even said it myself in a previous comment. > > > > > > > > > However the company/employee line can only be seperated by the individual not the company. > > > > > > > > > If the individual chooses to affiliate their private social media with their place of employment then whether they like it or not their work and home lives are no longer seperate on their social media. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think I can speak for everyone here when I say that none of us think that what JP said on her personal social media in any way reflects Anet as a company.. that would just be crazy. > > > > > > > > > However how can we expect Anet to maintain it's great reputation as an open an welcoming company that values and respects all its customers equally without prejudice when one of their employees is actively abusing the company's customers on a social media account that also happens to be directly affiliated to their company? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There's just no way any company can tolerate that kind of behavior and disrespect from an employee.. on the clock or not, personal media account or not.. > > > > > > > > > Public affiliation demands similar responsibilities and an employee that choses to represent their employer in their personal time needs to be held accountable for any and all negative publicity they bring towards the company that employs them through their behavior. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I do not agree with the things JP said but I do support her right to say those things and had she done so on a personal social media account that was not affiliated with Anet Almost none of us would even have known about it in the first place and chances are the original comments that started this mess probably wouldn't have even happened either since the vast majority of her followers are Anet customers and would not be following her in the first place. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Seperation of work and private life is definitely the best way to go we're very much agreed there. > > > > > > > > > However this is and should always be the responsibility of the individual. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Here's were you an I disagree...it should not be the individuals responsibility, it should be the companies responsibility to know the difference...after all, why do so many companies put out notices saying that the comments of so and so do not reflect the beliefs of this company? That tells me that companies already realize people are entitled to their opinions, but I actually do find fault with the other person in this case...and I've read what caused the uproar, that post was not an invitation to open a dialogue...it was a list of the facts stating why ArenaNet is constrained in telling the story they way they do...no where in that post did I see an invitation to offer an alternative or even open up a dialogue about it. I'm not sure how this Derior person is or if they're a native English speaker, but if they aren't then that could've been the problem, not understanding the context of the post, it wasn't an open invitation for discussion...it was more like a dissertation...this is how it is and why. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's pretty difficult to accomplish when the first thing folks do when they get mad is go straight to a person's employer and try to get them fired. Look at any other person who is ousted over negative comments involving gender, race, religion or nationality. Every time, folks immediately reach out to that person's employer and ask them "Do you condone this?" If the person isn't fired, people start boycotting. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's become the American way. > > > > > > > > > > > > It becomes an issue when you deviate from being a company ambassador of integrity to that of something personal, as if your customers are attacking you directly. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not sure if you read the entire argument, but she should've seen it coming. She made a mistake by bringing up company business in a private Twitter. If you want to share your political beliefs and opinions of similar sort in a social media venue, that's cool; however, once you start bringing your work into it, your opinions are now becoming reflected on behalf of your company. Surely she didn't intend to be the voice of ArenaNet in her words, but she made it so by starting a topic related to her job, then proceeding to get nasty with people. > > > > > > > > > > > > This is why you shouldn't talk about work on social media unless it's your job. Keep work at work, your outside life to yourself, and let the kitten go to the people in your life that care to lend an ear - NOT to your customers. > > > > > > > > > > > > And look, they had two ways they could've handled this. They could've let her apologize and keep her around on watch of what she says, or they could've gotten rid of her. From what I've read, JP has been toxic to the community for years. Her Twitter banner is even an indicator of this. She has low-tolerance toward people and is quick to become hostile. Chances are she would've been forced to apologize just to save face, only to grow bitter at the playerbase for trying to get her terminated. > > > > > > > > > > > > People were threatening to jump ship if ArenaNet didn't terminate her - myself included. I have to deal with enough political drama through the media and Hollywood; the last thing I want are salty developers hiding behind their irrelevant ideologies during simple conversation with honest, genuine players that want to have a conversation. > > > > > > > > > > > > I say MO did the right thing. Either way, it wasn't an easy decision, but keeping toxicity out lets fresh air in. > > > > > > > > > > I did the read the entire thing and the problem stems from Derior incorrectly determining that the tweet was open for discussion...it wasn't and I could tell it wasn't open for discussion. Sounds like we need to teach people how to understand context when reading as well, though context is part of reading comprehension, which is difficult if you're not a native English speaker(don't know whether or not Derior is) and you're trying to understand something written in English...you won't get the context. > > > > > > > > A point made in a public forum is open for discussion. > > > > > > That's BS, it's only open for discussion if you want to ignore the context...which is bad comprehension skills, or ignoring the context entirely. Obviously we're never going to agree on this so at this point we should just let it go...and I'm not changing my opinion. ArenaNet had the perfect opportunity to set the community straight on personal vs professional, but instead chose the easy way out...like all companies do. The customer is not always right, and sometimes they need to be told that. > > > > Nope. If you use a public forum to sound off publicly then you invite response from the public. JP chose to erase the line between private and professional. ANet has no ability to prevent this other than taking action after the fact. > > She works for Anet. They don't own her. Deroir had every right to post what he did. It was horrible, but she did have an open conversation. That does not mean that she has to accept that kind of behavior. He post was basically, "I think you're writing sucks. Now smile for me." And a large, toxic group of the fanbase got upset that a woman defended herself and just didn't take the abuse. She represents the company by bringing her work into her so-called private Twitter account. Private doesn't fly at that point. Neither she or you seem to realise this. What kind of terrible life you have to live to believe that critisism given by a male to a female is considered abuse...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pareth.3847 Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 > @"Koen.1327" said: > > @"Draco.9480" said: > > > @"Adotiln Urthadar.1823" said: > > > This was a very cowardly action. You have lost an incredible amount of respect in my eyes. > > > > most of the people gained respect from anet for firing those 2 aggressive employers. but somehow you lost respect? awkward. > > most of the people here are male reactionaries so yeah they loves bullying especially females > females get told how to do their job better all the time Men get told how to do their jobs better all the time, too. They just don't whine so much. I'm female. I get feedback and recommendations every now and then. I get told how I can improve in my jobs. But I guess I can't play the sexist card because my boss is a woman, too. In my other job, I get useful feedback from one male supervisor every now and then. I appreciate it, because if nobody gives me advice, how could I ever improve? Should I only ever listen to other women? Should I attack every man who actually DOES help with his statements? Maybe I'm the minority, maybe all other women only ever get sexist statements about their jobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hell Nirvana.9045 Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 > @"Belorn.2659" said: > What has been the most surprising in the last few days is the number of people who find celebrate a cancer victims death acceptable, and I can't imagine what kind of thinking could ever justify it. Maybe some people have been lucky enough to be spared seeing a loved one slowly die in a hospital bed through even so the lack of empathy required to celebrate a death is beyond me. > > Death is not peaceful. Seeing someone go from alive and healthy to suddenly be in constant pain and unable to walk is painful, and from here it only get worse. Pain medicine only do so much and after a point the pain is just constant every hour, every minute, every second. On a good day they may be awake a few hours and talk almost like it was a normal day, and then following that you have days where they don't even recognize you and are frozen in a face of agony. Open mouth but with a silent scream and a horrible slow breathing. You stay in the hospital for hours or days and doctors can't do anything while you watch the person hopelessly as they fade away in constant pain. > > Celebrating that a 32 year old human person has to go through that is not just harsh, its uncivil. Arguing that they have the opposing political view or did not control their follows does not even get close to justify celebrating the death of a cancer victim. If you hear or see someone defending this behavior please, make them stop. That is no way to behave online or offline for that matter. There is limits to what political polarization may result in and this is one of those. I really, really hope this is just a noisy minority in this community :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koen.1327 Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 > @"Menoitios.8375" said: > > @"Koen.1327" said: > > > @"Menoitios.8375" said: > > > > @"Koen.1327" said: > > > > > @"Draco.9480" said: > > > > > > @"Adotiln Urthadar.1823" said: > > > > > > This was a very cowardly action. You have lost an incredible amount of respect in my eyes. > > > > > > > > > > most of the people gained respect from anet for firing those 2 aggressive employers. but somehow you lost respect? awkward. > > > > > > > > most of the people here are male reactionaries so yeah they loves bullying especially females > > > > females get told how to do their job better all the time > > > > > > Why are you automatically assuming anyone's gender based on their viewpoints? That's pretty sexist in and of itself. > > > > how come ruling that the majority of the people here are reactionaries males is sexist? the analyzes of that is true, like for most of the games if not all. > > > > i'm not all in favor of statistical analyzes but females are underrepresented in in games, playing or developing, and that's not because females are inferior to males (that there is competition to begin with is another problem). > > Where are you pulling your data from to prove this is the truth? Let alone this is a single thread on the forums, not the entire game (let alone "most of the games"). > > Let alone assuming someone's gender based off their beliefs is horribly wrong, especially when in this thread alone there are people of different genders on both "sides" of the argument (and IMO there are more than 2 sides, it's not just black and white). my comment was based on what Draco said "most of the people gained respect from anet". As the story here is classic misogyny and most the people think this is okay i can only rule them are reactionary males. It also confirms my experience of playing online for about 15 years. Not sure if we have the same idea in mind but there is constant sexism (and other forms of oppressing ) in the chat, like 24/7 - and yes, in every game i've played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menoitios.8375 Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 > @"Koen.1327" said: > > @"Menoitios.8375" said: > > > @"Koen.1327" said: > > > > @"Menoitios.8375" said: > > > > > @"Koen.1327" said: > > > > > > @"Draco.9480" said: > > > > > > > @"Adotiln Urthadar.1823" said: > > > > > > > This was a very cowardly action. You have lost an incredible amount of respect in my eyes. > > > > > > > > > > > > most of the people gained respect from anet for firing those 2 aggressive employers. but somehow you lost respect? awkward. > > > > > > > > > > most of the people here are male reactionaries so yeah they loves bullying especially females > > > > > females get told how to do their job better all the time > > > > > > > > Why are you automatically assuming anyone's gender based on their viewpoints? That's pretty sexist in and of itself. > > > > > > how come ruling that the majority of the people here are reactionaries males is sexist? the analyzes of that is true, like for most of the games if not all. > > > > > > i'm not all in favor of statistical analyzes but females are underrepresented in in games, playing or developing, and that's not because females are inferior to males (that there is competition to begin with is another problem). > > > > Where are you pulling your data from to prove this is the truth? Let alone this is a single thread on the forums, not the entire game (let alone "most of the games"). > > > > Let alone assuming someone's gender based off their beliefs is horribly wrong, especially when in this thread alone there are people of different genders on both "sides" of the argument (and IMO there are more than 2 sides, it's not just black and white). > > my comment was based on what Draco said "most of the people gained respect from anet". As the story here is classic misogyny and most the people think this is okay i can only rule them are reactionary males. It also confirms my experience of playing online for about 15 years. Not sure if we have the same idea in mind but there is constant sexism (and other forms of oppressing ) in the chat, like 24/7 - and yes, in every game i've played. But all that shows is you are assuming, that's not fair to anyone for you to assume what their gender may be based off of who they give respect to and for what. Can you not see that being an issue? It's very sexist to assume anyone giving Arenanet respect for making a decision to be male. You yourself are exhibiting this 'constant sexism' by making that assumption on gender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voltekka.2375 Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 > @"Koen.1327" said: > > @"Menoitios.8375" said: > > > @"Koen.1327" said: > > > > @"Draco.9480" said: > > > > > @"Adotiln Urthadar.1823" said: > > > > > This was a very cowardly action. You have lost an incredible amount of respect in my eyes. > > > > > > > > most of the people gained respect from anet for firing those 2 aggressive employers. but somehow you lost respect? awkward. > > > > > > most of the people here are male reactionaries so yeah they loves bullying especially females > > > females get told how to do their job better all the time > > > > Why are you automatically assuming anyone's gender based on their viewpoints? That's pretty sexist in and of itself. > > how come ruling that the majority of the people here are reactionaries males is sexist? the analyzes of that is true, like for most of the games if not all. > > i'm not all in favor of statistical analyzes but females are underrepresented in in games, playing or developing, and that's not because females are inferior to males (that there is competition to begin with is another problem). What does this have to do with a dev being sexist and impolite (to say the least) against the community? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koen.1327 Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 > @"pareth.3847" said: > > @"Koen.1327" said: > > > @"Draco.9480" said: > > > > @"Adotiln Urthadar.1823" said: > > > > This was a very cowardly action. You have lost an incredible amount of respect in my eyes. > > > > > > most of the people gained respect from anet for firing those 2 aggressive employers. but somehow you lost respect? awkward. > > > > most of the people here are male reactionaries so yeah they loves bullying especially females > > females get told how to do their job better all the time > > Men get told how to do their jobs better all the time, too. They just don't whine so much. > I'm female. I get feedback and recommendations every now and then. I get told how I can improve in my jobs. But I guess I can't play the sexist card because my boss is a woman, too. In my other job, I get useful feedback from one male supervisor every now and then. I appreciate it, because if nobody gives me advice, how could I ever improve? Should I only ever listen to other women? Should I attack every man who actually DOES help with his statements? Maybe I'm the minority, maybe all other women only ever get sexist statements about their jobs. and why would females need to "toughen up" and accept their inferior position in the workplace? why is this context did the anet developer need to improve her skills based on a male's opinion? oh yeah, and males dominate the work environment so they don't get told how to do their jobs better all the time, they are on top of the chain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAmEstar.7681 Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 > @"soulwblood.1529" said: > Well. Even more disappointment then. Although I did not agree how the "sexism" call was pulled, I still believe terminating two employees to please the fans isn't the best option. But hey, we'll lI've. I just hope the content doesn't suffer with that Sorry, but i think _"terminating two employees to please the fans"_ is an ignorant statement. What they did **repercussed** in such way in the media that it presented a major problem to the company, at this point something HAD to be made. Social media mistakes can kill a business nowadays, drama and polemic spreads fast over the internet, and in the end the one that receives the bullet is the company. Heck, some articles online were made on the topic alreday, losing reputation and customers is not something to treat lightly. Now, NONE OF US don't know what they talked internally leading to their termination, we don't know if they were asked to just apologize publicly in company's behalf and they refused or something like that (but i think if that were the case, Jessica would probably have disagreed to do it anyway). To finish, these people are experienced and professionals (or at least supposed to be), they should know that everything they say and do on social media has just as many repercussions as in real life: if you say the wrong thing, leak confidential or whatever else, you’re totally liable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyvaine.3895 Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 Even I had to sign a contract that i have to behave accordingly when posting in social media under my real name (even more when officially connected to my company) and prevent doing harm to my company or causing negative publicity. And i´m working for a company not accociated with gaming and internet-stuff..... No company i ever heard of is chilled with such an behaviour - so they had it coming a long way now (she at least) this has nothing to do with growing up and "omg losing a job because of twitter". This is our world today. You have to be responsible with your social media apperarences when it can be tracked back to your professional life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowen.8157 Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 > @"franzi.8513" said: > I feel very sad that both of them were fired ... and it makes me really angry that so many people who were not even insulted by Jessica or Peter wanted them to get fired. Losing your job can cause severe depression and it raises the risk of suicide. Is it really worth to take that risk, just because of a Twitter discussion? Maybe her reaction was unacceptable, but I can understand her somehow. During my schooltime I was bullied a lot and after many years of bullying I started to overreact all the time. People always thought I had a bad character, but actually I was just stressed and couldn't take any more critique. Maybe Jessica Price felt stressed about all the critique and mean comments, too. Maybe she has burnout, maybe everything was too much for her. I think someone from Anet should have offered her help instead of firing her. But the only person who supported her, was fired, too - a dad who worked for Anet for 13 years. I don't like this decision at all. I don't think it's fair. Jessica and Peter both worked hard to make this game for us, too. The whole incident makes me so sad that I could cry ... I really don't understand how others can cheer that two people lost their job. I really hope that you never make mistakes in your life. That is your right, it is your right to feel sad and express why you feel like this. It's also my right to answer you since you post it on a forum. So is it my right to offend you and for you to feel offended as long as you don't take things out of context. It's not sexist nor racist of me to point this out or to respond to what you are saying. Well neither was there anything sexist in what deroir said. When you use social media to express your way of thinking or how you feel people will respond. When your only respons is that the other person is sexist for doing so you are abusing what million of women fought for, being equal rights. Add the fact that NO company will ever accept a person for calling their community (clients) names, which she did, and you'll end up with the same result over and over again. If you work for someone there are simple rules: 1) do what they pay you for, 2) don't talk bad about the company you work for 3) don't talk bad about the company's clients Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 > @"Koen.1327" said: > oh yeah, and males dominate the work environment so they don't get told how to do their jobs better all the time, they are on top of the chain This is hilarious, you are saying that every male is equal on the top of chain? You are saying that in a workplace that has only male developers, nobody tells anyone else how to do their job "better"? You will be surprised but the reality is, not everyone can fit at the top of the chain. Males get told how to do their jobs "better" all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menoitios.8375 Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 > @"Koen.1327" said: > > @"pareth.3847" said: > > > @"Koen.1327" said: > > > > @"Draco.9480" said: > > > > > @"Adotiln Urthadar.1823" said: > > > > > This was a very cowardly action. You have lost an incredible amount of respect in my eyes. > > > > > > > > most of the people gained respect from anet for firing those 2 aggressive employers. but somehow you lost respect? awkward. > > > > > > most of the people here are male reactionaries so yeah they loves bullying especially females > > > females get told how to do their job better all the time > > > > Men get told how to do their jobs better all the time, too. They just don't whine so much. > > I'm female. I get feedback and recommendations every now and then. I get told how I can improve in my jobs. But I guess I can't play the sexist card because my boss is a woman, too. In my other job, I get useful feedback from one male supervisor every now and then. I appreciate it, because if nobody gives me advice, how could I ever improve? Should I only ever listen to other women? Should I attack every man who actually DOES help with his statements? Maybe I'm the minority, maybe all other women only ever get sexist statements about their jobs. > > and why would females need to "toughen up" and accept their inferior position in the workplace? > why is this context did the anet developer need to improve her skills based on a male's opinion? > > oh yeah, and males dominate the work environment so they don't get told how to do their jobs better all the time, they are on top of the chain The constructive criticism had NOTHING to do with her skills or even her personally. It was simply a suggestion on how to possibly make the story more engaging, which is what her original post was on. There is nothing wrong with that, especially with how he wrote it. Let alone if you don't think men get told how to do their job better than you are sorely mistaken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatal Frame.9568 Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 > @"pareth.3847" said: > > @"Koen.1327" said: > > > @"Draco.9480" said: > > > > @"Adotiln Urthadar.1823" said: > > > > This was a very cowardly action. You have lost an incredible amount of respect in my eyes. > > > > > > most of the people gained respect from anet for firing those 2 aggressive employers. but somehow you lost respect? awkward. > > > > most of the people here are male reactionaries so yeah they loves bullying especially females > > females get told how to do their job better all the time > > Men get told how to do their jobs better all the time, too. They just don't whine so much. > I'm female. I get feedback and recommendations every now and then. I get told how I can improve in my jobs. But I guess I can't play the sexist card because my boss is a woman, too. In my other job, I get useful feedback from one male supervisor every now and then. I appreciate it, because if nobody gives me advice, how could I ever improve? Should I only ever listen to other women? Should I attack every man who actually DOES help with his statements? Maybe I'm the minority, maybe all other women only ever get sexist statements about their jobs. As a female also, I relish the opportunity to take on new approaches and suggestions from my peers. I agree that receiving criticism can be helpful and is a way to improve. They have a term for this, it's called "internalised misogyny". Basically a catch-22 to account for the "dissenters" like us. Also, I don't automatically assume I'm the authority on what I do because I'm a professional and have been in the industry for a long time; that's arrogant. I can always improve. To stay relevant to the topic at hand, she should've been let go. From a commercial point of view, she was unprofessional while representing the company. From my personal point of view, well, she was uncivil, to say the least. Almost neurotic. Some companies create and manage dedicated social media accounts for their employees to use to interface with their respective communities in a professional capacity, leaving their personal profiles separate/private. Doing so ensures that the company imposes clear boundaries between work and personal interaction, so that the two aren't muddied or confused, while taking that burden off the employee themselves. This kind of approach might be more sensible in the future, though I think these kinds of outbursts were generally contained to JP in ANet's case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hell Nirvana.9045 Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 Edit: Nevermind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManureTruck.7856 Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 > @"nosleepdemon.1368" said: > The vast majority of you have a great deal of growing up to do. I just hope society isn't scuppered by the unreal amount of triggering and thin-skinnedness shown in this thread. I also hope none of you ever get on the chopping block for something you wrote on a web site. Losing your job sucks. Your employer not having your back absolutely sucks. It's not a good thing, a good thing would have been the devs apologising, instead they're out of a job with bills to pay. Anyone who says that's a good thing has never left their mother's basement. Please review Jessica Price's Twitter history before speaking condescendingly to people more familiar with her history than you. The only person at fault for her getting fired is herself. I'm more sympathetic to Peter, but he shouldn't have hitched his trailer onto a truck speeding head-on over the rim of a volcano. He marked himself as a significant liability right at that moment. In some people's worlds, personal responsibility for how you behave while representing a company publicly, even off the clock, is still a big deal. In some peoples minds, being fired for awful behavior and opinions you have unrelated to a company is perfectly acceptable. It's called being a mature adult who takes responsibility for their choices, and how they reflect on their employer, family, and friends, and expects others to do the same. And for all we know, this may have simply been the final nail in the coffin for those two. Firing Jessica was likely a very easy decision, but letting a 10-year veteran go over a Twitter spat is a significant decision and likely involves much more internal company political stuff that we will never be privy to, and the Twitter spat was simply used as an excuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franzi.8513 Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 > @"Dried Donkey.8504" said: > and i'm sorry but if you're a creative in any field putting your work forward for the public to see then they can and will critique it if you want it or not and yes it's a hard pill to swallow sometimes especially when you worked hard on something, and also she sure as hell didn't pull any punches when she "critiqued" other people's work. > i got the impression that because she could say she was a professional in her field she felt she was above and beyond those who she felt wasn't on her level but the truth is professional is just a job title when it comes to these things, you shouldn't disregard a person's feed back because you see them as an amateur or if they don't work with you because an outside perspective can help > I don't think that you understood my comment. Of course someone like her should be able to deal with critique ... but when someone has to deal with with sexism, harassment and mean comments all the time, the person often becomes more sensitive about critique in general. Someone on Twitter wrote that "her writing is piss and that she never brought something to GW2 but bad PR". I wonder if that person was fired, too? I can totally understand Jessica Price's reaction to critique when she has to read comments like these every day. Being criticized every day can lead to depression and burnout, which is not an excuse, but a reason for an overreaction to critique. As I wrote before: I experienced something similar in my childhood and it's still very difficult for me not to overreact to critique. It hurts and stressed me. I'm sure that most people who complain about her behavior would react in a very similar way when they feel stressed out. If she struggles to stay professional, someone should have offered her help instead of firing her. It makes me extremely sad that people don't even seem to care that Peter Fries was fired. He just wanted to help a colleague who felt insulted and backed into a corner and I'm sure that he had good intentions. But only few people support him, instead everyone just cheers about Jessica Price being fired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowen.8157 Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 > @"Menoitios.8375" said: > > @"Kultakorppi.4769" said: > > I feel wrong about ever supporting arenanet after this. The fact that you would effectively ruin 2 developer's careers to sate the demands of this toxic, screaming mob of a 'community' is shameful. > > > > This is why game developers need to unionize. > > This community is far from toxic. If you want a toxic community just go play your ARTS (commonly referred to as MOBA) game of choice, that will show you what a toxic community truly is. Also, are you not part of this "screaming mob" since you are part of the community? Lastly, thanks for the generalization, does a lot of good painting everyone the same color when clearly the toxic people are a fringe case. exactly. This community is far from toxic and saw someone abusing the sexist card (yet again). You are in your right to express how you feel about it but don't pull this out of context. JP is the only person who is responsible for ruining her carreer. And the big problem is that she probably doesn't even realise it. She'll probably keep doing what she does. I remember there being a black child with a t-shirt saying "king of the jungle". Even the mother said it wasn't racist but other people decided it was. That's what people like her (JP) are doing to the world. in other words, If I throw a rock deep into a forest with no people around, would JP think it's sexist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManureTruck.7856 Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 > @"Koen.1327" said: > oh yeah, and males dominate the work environment so they don't get told how to do their jobs better all the time, they are on top of the chain Have you ever worked in a real office with real co-workers? I'm having trouble believing that you are saying this completely unironically. You are seriously brainwashed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manasa Devi.7958 Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 > @"nyvaine.3895" said: > Even I had to sign a contract that i have to behave accordingly when posting in social media under my real name (even more when officially connected to my company) and prevent doing harm to my company or causing negative publicity. > And i´m working for a company not accociated with gaming and internet-stuff..... > No company i ever heard of is chilled with such an behaviour - so they had it coming a long way now (she at least) > this has nothing to do with growing up and "omg losing a job because of twitter". > This is our world today. You have to be responsible with your social media apperarences when it can be tracked back to your professional life. Exactly. Losing a job because of what you twittered isn't an outrageous thing that should be condemned. It's a testament to you being unprofessional and misguided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koen.1327 Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > @"Koen.1327" said: > > oh yeah, and males dominate the work environment so they don't get told how to do their jobs better all the time, they are on top of the chain > > This is hilarious, you are saying that every male is equal on the top of chain? You are saying that in a workplace that has only male developers, nobody tells anyone else how to do their job "better"? You will be surprised but the reality is, not everyone can fit at the top of the chain. Males get told how to do their jobs "better" all the time. and why would a workplace have only male developers? how is this work environment not dominated by males? i'm referring to this as a problem. in reality males are on top of the chain, and they are fine with criticizing each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menoitios.8375 Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 > @"Koen.1327" said: > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > @"Koen.1327" said: > > > oh yeah, and males dominate the work environment so they don't get told how to do their jobs better all the time, they are on top of the chain > > > > This is hilarious, you are saying that every male is equal on the top of chain? You are saying that in a workplace that has only male developers, nobody tells anyone else how to do their job "better"? You will be surprised but the reality is, not everyone can fit at the top of the chain. Males get told how to do their jobs "better" all the time. > > and why would a workplace have only male developers? how is this work environment not dominated by males? i'm referring to this as a problem. > > in reality males are on top of the chain, and they are fine with criticizing each other. Not all men take criticism well, I have had the "pleasure" of seeing a few of them take it about as well as JP did. Also, males are not "on top of the chain", the boss is on top of the chain and the boss can be male, female, and anything in between or outside of those constraints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blocki.4931 Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 > @"Koen.1327" said: > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > @"Koen.1327" said: > > > oh yeah, and males dominate the work environment so they don't get told how to do their jobs better all the time, they are on top of the chain > > > > This is hilarious, you are saying that every male is equal on the top of chain? You are saying that in a workplace that has only male developers, nobody tells anyone else how to do their job "better"? You will be surprised but the reality is, not everyone can fit at the top of the chain. Males get told how to do their jobs "better" all the time. > > and why would a workplace have only male developers? how is this work environment not dominated by males? i'm referring to this as a problem. > > in reality males are on top of the chain, and they are fine with criticizing each other. Personal choice. And "male dominated" isn't a bad thing since that is a result of more men being interested in a field? Where are the female sewage workers? Your assumption that this is entirely based on prejudice is poor judgment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voltekka.2375 Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 You know the saddest part of all this? That particular dev getting fired will make all kittenfeministic people on social media to take advantage of it, for their own agendas. It has already begun on twitter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LetoII.3782 Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 > @"Lowen.8157" said: > 1) do what they pay you for, > 2) don't talk bad about the company you work for > 3) don't talk bad about the company's clients > Ima add a few 4) Don't bring your personal problems to work 5) Don't share your ideas on politics or religion 6) You might _think_ the customer is wrong..... That twitter account is a veritable cringefest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koen.1327 Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 > @"Blocki.4931" said: > > @"Koen.1327" said: > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > @"Koen.1327" said: > > > > oh yeah, and males dominate the work environment so they don't get told how to do their jobs better all the time, they are on top of the chain > > > > > > This is hilarious, you are saying that every male is equal on the top of chain? You are saying that in a workplace that has only male developers, nobody tells anyone else how to do their job "better"? You will be surprised but the reality is, not everyone can fit at the top of the chain. Males get told how to do their jobs "better" all the time. > > > > and why would a workplace have only male developers? how is this work environment not dominated by males? i'm referring to this as a problem. > > > > in reality males are on top of the chain, and they are fine with criticizing each other. > > Personal choice. And "male dominated" isn't a bad thing since that is a result of more men being interested in a field? Where are the female sewage workers? > > Your assumption that this is entirely based on prejudice is poor judgment. it's never personal, it's a structured problem. it's not only a result of men being more interested in a field (which is due gender discrimination to begin with), but also that females are bullied away like in this story. @ the rest who think that the top of the chain, the bosses, the shareholders, the money are not dominated by males and is totally equal (even that there should be such power structure); i will not even reply to this anymore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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