GW 2 Devs/Playerbase Twitter Discussion

[Harper.4173]

> @"thruine.8510" said:

> > @"Harper.4173" said:

> >

> > What would you say Anet's problem is?

>

> I think there is a political issue in part of it. You never fire two people for one person's offense unless that person can use the firing to prove their point. We see how JP is trying to do this but the actual sexism she's screaming about with ArenaNet is when you look at PF being fired. They want to keep the so called feminist and sacrificed him to do so. As a way of saying see, we agree with her its just that she insulted a player. Why are women burning out so fast is another concern there. Especially when there's supposed to be all this care about such issues. And who is wanting something happening on Reddit all the time but I don't think that's as related.

 

There's nothing political here. You have one employee who makes the bad choice of insulting customers. And then - another one who makes the bad call of siding with his colleague **against** the customers. You fire both of them. Especially the second because he's shown where his loyalties lie. If he was a loyal employee he'd have sat it out. If he chose to take a stance AGAINST customers then even if you hadn't fired him it was only a matter of time until he put company interest below his own "agenda".

When a person is no longer able to tow the line you drop him - plain and simple. PF was fired not because they want to appear egalitarian (or maybe it was part of it) but most likely **PF was fired because he showed he valued a colleague more than he valued the company's stance and well being**. No sane company keeps this sort of person on board fast. And no sane employee (in today's market) shows the company he works for this unless he's looking to get fired.

 

One ( you) can only wonder why women are burning out so fast all over the place in the western world.

 

Again - in the case of Peter I think you're reading into the "feminist" angle too much. He was with the company for 12 years and still wasn't loyal. I wouldn't keep a person like that on board.

[Drogot.4629]

As I predicted this thing takes to much of my time and especially my mental stability so now just a few final remarks:

 

1. If you think JPs remarks are so bad I honestly think you are a bit sensitive to put it nicely.

2. If you actually are happy (without mixed feelings) that 2 people lost their job then yes. You are a bad person. You can disagree but it is still true.

3. To the people who think actions should have consequences: Yes they should and they do. However what those consequences should be is up for debate here. I don't know how anyone could think JPs actions are reason enough for the consequences she suffered.

4. If you just decide to fire 2 people without trying to work something like this out first (which takes longer than 2 days) then you are a coward.

 

These are harsh words. If you disagree... fine. You are free to do so. I have better things to do than to argue with you over things that we ultimately always going to disagree on. You can quote me here but I will do my best not to look at this forum for a while. So don't expect an answer.

[DarkReign.4503]

> @"Drogot.4629" said:

> As I predicted this thing takes to much of my time and especially my mental stability so now just a few final remarks:

>

> 1. If you think JPs remarks are so bad I honestly think you are a bit sensitive to put it nicely.

> 2. If you actually are happy (without mixed feelings) that 2 people lost their job then yes. You are a bad person. You can disagree but it is still true.

> 3. To the people who think actions should have consequences: Yes they should and they do. However what those consequences should be is up for debate here. I don't know how anyone could think JPs actions are reason enough for the consequences she suffered.

> 4. If you just decide to fire 2 people without trying to work something like this out first (which takes longer than 2 days) then you are a coward.

>

> These are harsh words. If you disagree... fine. You are free to do so. I have better things to do than to argue with you over things that we ultimately always going to disagree on. You can quote me here but I will do my best not to look at this forum for a while. So don't expect an answer.

 

I'm just going to play the game tonight and stay off of this topic as well these arguments are just back and forth never ending even in RL. This may go until the game and servers are shutdown or they lock the thing. Anyway I will see you peoples in game ?.

 

[Loukious.7346]

> @"Drogot.4629" said:

> As I predicted this thing takes to much of my time and especially my mental stability so now just a few final remarks:

>

> 1. If you think JPs remarks are so bad I honestly think you are a bit sensitive to put it nicely.

> 2. If you actually are happy (without mixed feelings) that 2 people lost their job then yes. You are a bad person. You can disagree but it is still true.

> 3. To the people who think actions should have consequences: Yes they should and they do. However what those consequences should be is up for debate here. I don't know how anyone could think JPs actions are reason enough for the consequences she suffered.

> 4. If you just decide to fire 2 people without trying to work something like this out first (which takes longer than 2 days) then you are a coward.

>

> These are harsh words. If you disagree... fine. You are free to do so. I have better things to do than to argue with you over things that we ultimately always going to disagree on. You can quote me here but I will do my best not to look at this forum for a while. So don't expect an answer.

 

1. She took a MILD situation that could have been handled MUCH better and blew it into a situation that now gives ANet on the whole a black eye. EX of how to hand it and not....first how it SHOULD have been handled by her: JP-long original post. D-his well thought out opinion. JP-While this is a good thought it doesn't work with our narrative direction. (OR) JP-Doesn't respond. WRONG WAY: The way JP handled it

2. I feel bad for PF getting let go. He stood up for a co-worker and paid the price for her stupidity. JP? I hope she is blacklisted by companies.

3. JP's actions are off of this situation and the TB comments. Then plus whatever happened behind closed doors when she was talked to by MO about all of this.

4. I'd have fired JP the next day if she felt she was not in the wrong for this (WHICH she was very much so in the wrong). PF I'd have pulled aside and given him a choice. Apologize and move forward....or sit there and be fired.

[Ashen.2907]

> @"Drogot.4629" said:

> As I predicted this thing takes to much of my time and especially my mental stability so now just a few final remarks:

>

> 1. If you think JPs remarks are so bad I honestly think you are a bit sensitive to put it nicely.

> 2. If you actually are happy (without mixed feelings) that 2 people lost their job then yes. You are a bad person. You can disagree but it is still true.

> 3. To the people who think actions should have consequences: Yes they should and they do. However what those consequences should be is up for debate here. I don't know how anyone could think JPs actions are reason enough for the consequences she suffered.

> 4. If you just decide to fire 2 people without trying to work something like this out first (which takes longer than 2 days) then you are a coward.

>

> These are harsh words. If you disagree... fine. You are free to do so. I have better things to do than to argue with you over things that we ultimately always going to disagree on. You can quote me here but I will do my best not to look at this forum for a while. So don't expect an answer.

 

1) I think that abuse directed at customers and business partners merited disciplinary action.

 

2) I am not happy that anyone lost their employment.

 

3) No, what the consequences should have been are not up for debate. I mean, sure one can argue...but unless you, or I, buy the company, we have no say in employment decisions within the company.

 

4) Is calling strangers online names while you are covered by the anonymity of the internet, because they, with a job to do, did their job in a manner with which you disagree a sign of courage?

[Deihnyx.6318]

> @"Drogot.4629" said:

> As I predicted this thing takes to much of my time and especially my mental stability so now just a few final remarks:

>

> 1. If you think JPs remarks are so bad I honestly think you are a bit sensitive to put it nicely.

> 2. If you actually are happy (without mixed feelings) that 2 people lost their job then yes. You are a bad person. You can disagree but it is still true.

> 3. To the people who think actions should have consequences: Yes they should and they do. However what those consequences should be is up for debate here. I don't know how anyone could think JPs actions are reason enough for the consequences she suffered.

> 4. If you just decide to fire 2 people without trying to work something like this out first (which takes longer than 2 days) then you are a coward.

>

> These are harsh words. If you disagree... fine. You are free to do so. I have better things to do than to argue with you over things that we ultimately always going to disagree on. You can quote me here but I will do my best not to look at this forum for a while. So don't expect an answer.

 

- Being "a bit too sensitive" is the whole reason Jessica even exploded in the first place. Can't tell people not to be sensitive to sexism and death celebration while the whole thing started with an excess of sensitivity. As always double standards.

- Most of the people you will see talking about 'celebrating' firings are the people pretending the whole community is celebrating it, while that's not the case.

- Consequences of something going on internally within a company can be discussed but ultimately it's not up to anyone here (unlike again what the "medias" wants us to believe). If you're outraged by her firing, I hope I will find you defending all these other devs who got fired before for the same reasons. Roseanne got fired for her tweets, I don't recall people defending her (with reason).

- No, it means you're a businessman (or woman) who acts upon a situation rationally, instead of emotionally.

[Healix.5819]

She's made some more comments on twitter. It's pretty much what you'd expect, like she did nothing wrong and blames ArenaNet, claiming they're harassing her by staying silent and letting this continue. She didn't like how MO credited her only for the 1 scene, so...

 

Apparently she was in charge of season 4 and influenced all of it. She starts out saying everything is done by teams, but she led meetings and all dialogue went through her, following with "Everything you've seen of the story so far this season is my work, and you're going to be seeing my work in it for a long time." She goes on to say that a lot of the work we'll be seeing is led by women and it'll be the best content GW2 has ever produced because of it.

[Bloodstealer.5978]

> @"Drogot.4629" said:

> As I predicted this thing takes to much of my time and especially my mental stability so now just a few final remarks:

>

> 1. If you think JPs remarks are so bad I honestly think you are a bit sensitive to put it nicely.

> 2. If you actually are happy (without mixed feelings) that 2 people lost their job then yes. You are a bad person. You can disagree but it is still true.

> 3. To the people who think actions should have consequences: Yes they should and they do. However what those consequences should be is up for debate here. I don't know how anyone could think JPs actions are reason enough for the consequences she suffered.

> 4. If you just decide to fire 2 people without trying to work something like this out first (which takes longer than 2 days) then you are a coward.

>

> These are harsh words. If you disagree... fine. You are free to do so. I have better things to do than to argue with you over things that we ultimately always going to disagree on. You can quote me here but I will do my best not to look at this forum for a while. So don't expect an answer.

 

OK.. finished spilling my coffee down my chin whilst wiping the tears from my eyes after the game....

1 - This whole thing derived from a dev being way overly sensitive to a content partner having a "slight disagreement" with some work related content she decided was befitting for twitter chatter.. I never once saw deroir being anything but cordial so not sure where you even got even remotely close to sensitive.

2a - No not happy at all.. no one wins we loose 2 devs, one being a 12yr vet with the company and a family to consider, the other.. well tbh I don't actually think it will take too long hopefully for ANET to replace this person with someone carrying way less baggage and controversial agenda, no matter how good she might of been at story telling.. which from what I have read this week seems to be the case, either way it will have an internal effect on the rest of the teams and maybe the game schedule, quality of narrative etc.

2b - Again not nice when anyone looses their job, but really not nice when someone looses their life and leaves a young family behind either.. something I can very much relate to, but thankfully I didn't have to endure twitter trolling and garbage commentary from a toxic game dev at least.

3 - Yes actions do have consequences, so when you make yourself out to be a veteran professional in your field of expertise you should of learned how to conduct yourself when putting some work related content out for public perception and dealing with challenges, critique and everyday cordial discussion in a way that alleviates the need for consequence like we have seen.. lets not forget this isn't her first rodeo, there is previous form. Then of course there is the old adage.. don't bite the hands that feed ya.

4 - A business protecting their image, their customer good will, their revenue and ultimately their entire workforce, from potential fallout .. hardly a cowardly act, I call it a sound professional business decision. Add to that your only reading one side of the interweeb gamerjourno's cherry picked dross, oh and JP's incessant desires to double down for more controversy. You have no clue what discussions took place, you have no clue whether their was already underlying issues to factor in to the decision making process. Why does it take more than 2 days, you can apologise, sign a HR letter of warning regarding conduct unbecoming and you can get back to work.. whether ANET wanted that or felt that was not possible is up to them. However if you mean it would take more than 2 days to work out a way for JP to cull her toxic controversial attitudes and bad mouthing of anyone who dare have a differing opinion.. yeah it would likely take an eternity.

 

These are not harsh words they are reasoned points of debate, and my opinions around them differ from yours - but wow look there is no aggressive undertone towards you, there is no offensive language directed at you, there is no gender card thrown at you and their is no malice towards you.. see it's easy to do and I am only a 30yr veteran... perhaps I should of taken that course at the school of controversy when I had the chance.. my bad :)

[Walhalla.5473]

> @"Healix.5819" said:

>"Everything you've seen of the story so far this season is my work, and you're going to be seeing my work in it for a long time."

 

Uhhm.... Is she saying that basically everything thats gonna be good is only due to her? The whole stuff is a team effort and now saying " THATS MY WORK" is basically reducing the part others in the story department had done to nothing. Yeah, very classy to complain that MO is reducing her efforts to only one scene but reducing the efforts of everyone else to basically nothing.

 

And seriously, that woman should start to reflect on why she was fired. She was acting like an ass to a customer, escalating it more and more and fails to recognize that she was wrong. There was no second chance possible here. Let's assume the second chance was given ( we don't know if the meeting was just to instantly fire her or to remind her first on how to interact with customers etc ), do you think that she would take it? Or just yell at her superiors?

[fizzypetal.7936]

.........................................

[Dashingsteel.3410]

A man can question or criticize a man. A woman can question or criticize a man. A woman can question or criticize a woman. A MAN ABSOLUTELY CANNOT QUESTION OR CRITICIZE A WOMAN!

 

This kind of thinking is what is toxic. All those rushing to defend JP and condemn Mike O'Brien don't really care about JP but rather defending the PC orthodoxy of vicitimhood. This is a culture war and unfortunately Anet is now involved in it. PC victimhood is a way to achieve power through artificial means rather than relying on merit. Jessica Price obviously feels she has the moral highground because she is a woman and Deroir is a man. How dare he make a suggestion to her. Doesn't he know his place.

 

I keep reading that it was this toxic mob that took JP down. No, it was the toxic ideology of PC that was her undoing. Her assumption that any suggestion from a man was instantly a sexist attack. She felt emboldened by this ideology to react the way she did and even now thinks she is the righteous crusader in all of this.

 

Thank you Mike O'Brien for not bowing at the altar of political correctness. You looked at the merits of the case and applied swift justice.

 

 

[Cyrin.1035]

> @"Healix.5819" said:

> "Everything you've seen of the story so far this season is my work, and you're going to be seeing my work in it for a long time."

 

That certainly explains the Joko filler detour. I hope she didn't ruin the next arc as well. I'm very excited about it since we get back on track. One good thing about Price touching the next arc is that Braham (a male) will likely be killed off. Hallelujah!

[Zaklex.6308]

> @"Loli Ruri.8307" said:

> > @"juhani.5361" said:

> > > @"Loli Ruri.8307" said:

> > > > @"juhani.5361" said:

> > > > > @"Zabi Zabi.3561" said:

> > > > > > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said:

> > > > > > There's only one winner in this situation:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > + Not Ms. Price: She lost her job, which might have added to her stress.

> > > > > > + Not Mr. Fries: He lost his job which he seems to have valued.

> > > > > > + Not ANet management: at best they've acted in the way that was less of a loss, but no matter what they did, some group was going to be unhappy with them.

> > > > > > + Not ANet staff: this kind of situation is going to have repercussions and effect staff's sense of camaraderie.

> > > > > > + Not Deroir: though by comparison, his loss is almost not worth mentioning, this situation has got to leave a bad taste in the mouth.

> > > > > > + Not the GW2 community: some are satisfied with ANet's reaction, some are not, but the affair has highlighted the divides between us more than any other interaction I've followed.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The winner? The winner is people who like watching things burn.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > That means we all lost.

> > > > >

> > > > > Price would have been hazardous to the company if she was kept around and kept insulting the PLAYER BASE OF THE GAME AND COMPANY SHE WORKED FOR!

> > > > >

> > > > > Anet did the right thing by putting the COMMUNITY OF THE GAME FIRST before TOXIC EMPLOYEES!

> > > > >

> > > > > So the true winners are Anet, and the Community.

> > > > >

> > > > > Some will have disagreeing opinions and will probably leave the game HOWEVER! I have noticed more new players coming in and that's a good thing!

> > > >

> > > > I'm a part of the community, and I definitely _don't_feel like this is a win. And, honestly, this whole situation is a setback for women in the gaming industry-- not to mention in society as a whole. Anet's actions were necessary, but they're nothing to be celebrated. All of this brigading and mob mentality does nothing but degrade the GW2 community.

> > > How does removing a terrible person make it a setback for women in the gaming industry? I'm in the gaming industry, and I don't feel a setback at all. Wat? XD

> >

> > Been debating about answering this, since it taps into a lot of personal experience I'd rather forget. Reading a lot of the comments puts me back a good decade, with all the emotions and frustrations I felt as a female student in various IT classrooms around the Silicon Valley. I got singled out a few times, including one encounter with a professor I ended up taking to the dean, met with constant skepticism from male students, etc. You could walk into that environment as a complete clueless male noob who didn't know where the on button was and not be met with the same kind of condescension you'd get as a hardcore computer hobbyist with a server certification under her belt. I'm pretty laid back and easy-going, so I'd usually post stellar grades, help others with labs, etc. and "earn" respect by being better than most. But it really wears on you after a while. I got sick of it and quit, eventually. I can't imagine what dealing with that professionally would have been like.

> >

> > I think any woman in the tech and gaming industry has to have a steel spine, just like any man becoming an elementary school teacher or a nurse. I really don't. And I can imagine, knowing how I get, that I'd probably explode under the stress like JP may have.

> >

> > Reading the press out of this-- which is what most people in the industry are going to do-- would definitely deter me from wanting to enter the industry. Knowing that I could be targeted by internet mobs because a friend of mine exploded under such pressures would deter me from remaining in the industry. <--Been reading that a few female devs who knew JP have been bullied by the mobs. This whole scenario has a chilling effect on women's participation both now and in the future.

> >

> > Like I said before-- I think the firing decision was the right one. But none of the side-effects are good or beneficial in the long run. It's a titanic mess that's only getting worse.

> This was a good read. But the reality is, I don't get the same experience. Maybe it's different here. But as a woman, I just don't get people giving me crap just for being a woman. In fact, I have learned to talk their language, and how to present myself in a manner that does not detract. Maybe it's because I don't expect the world to change for me, but for me to fit in. If somebody is giving me crap tho, I will call it out, but not to their face, but to HR, or to my boss. Because it's their job to handle those who don't want to work as a part of a team. Griping goes up, not down.

 

Let's see here...first off, you shouldn't have to fit in, but neither should the world have to change for you...there has to be give and take on both sides to reach a middle ground. I'm also curious to know if when you do bring something up to HR or to your boss, do they investigate first and then offer solutions; or do they set up a meeting between you and the alleged harasser so you can sit down and talk it over between yourselves to see if you can come up with your own solution? Because honestly, that's the way it should start, you start with a peer to peer meeting between the harasser and the harassee, if nothing can be worked out,, then you start moving up the ladder, first with your immediate superior...with an HR representative present at all time, but they're not there to say or do anything except observe and take notes.

[Greyraven.4258]

What I find most disheartening is the way Bill Murphy a gaming journo over at MMORPG.com is pretty much assassinating MO's character and reputation with Impunity, I also think that one of the posters there stated pretty darned clearly how this is going to end up affecting the Community.......

 

>On who actually loses in all of this, though I don't think they realize it yet.

 

>Gaming journalism. I spent a good deal of time talking to folks I know in the industry, and they are not actually scared the way Jessica Price said.....if anything they are doing the "I told you so" to their superiors and marketers, who are in turn discussing future narrative and how Naive it is to allow just any Tom, Dick or Henrietta (see what >I did there?) to form a narrative they have zero control over.

 

>My prediction from what I am hearing....

 

>Expect much less cooperation from developers in the future, expect fewer con showings, and more controlled (As in developer run ) gaming news sites, also much less developer backed revenue. It won't stop fans from still shouting their opinion, but it's going to be damn hard to make any revenue from it.....and the masses will hear the controlled message, they just will.

 

>I remember gaming journalism sites started because people that loved games, wanted to talk to the awesome folks that made games, and for a time it was a mutual >admiration society......like everything else human nature touches that went to shit, for reasons.

 

>My prediction is by 2020, there will be maybe one or two independent game journalism sites ran by hard core fans doing it out of just love making zero dollars......the >larger game conglomerates will either buy out the more popular sites or will give theme the middle finger, sue them any time they publish something about their >company without permission and send their controlled narrative to the news outlet they created, which will have very strict controlled means of communication.

 

>Congratulations to RPS, The Verge, Kotaku and Ploygon........you created your own demise. Warhawk80 MMORPcom 7/11/2018

_

 

I think they are spot on we really lose here considering that game journos have just more or less proven that every accusation about GG is more or less true.

[dost.4209]

I don’t even understand. This behavior is not even open to discussion. She clearly insulted a person who expressed his opinion without hatred nor sexism. Yet she called them asshat. I don’t know the laws where you live but, in my country, you get jailed for 2 years for insulting. And since 2016 I think everything you shared in social media is taken as evidence.

[Cyrin.1035]

> @"Healix.5819" said:

> She's made some more comments on twitter. It's pretty much what you'd expect, like she did nothing wrong and blames ArenaNet, claiming they're harassing her by staying silent and letting this continue. She didn't like how MO credited her only for the 1 scene, so...

>

> Apparently she was in charge of season 4 and influenced all of it. She starts out saying everything is done by teams, but she led meetings and all dialogue went through her, following with "Everything you've seen of the story so far this season is my work, and you're going to be seeing my work in it for a long time." She goes on to say that a lot of the work we'll be seeing is led by women and it'll be the best content GW2 has ever produced because of it.

 

There are too many falsities and too much narrative/perception twisting in her most recent Twitter messages.

 

It seems she isn't the creative necessity I had assumed from her interviews. She was fake there as well.

[Trise.2865]

The issue here is tact. "Tact," Winston Churchill said, "is telling someone to go to hell in such a way they look forward to the trip."

 

Some people forgot to use it, and the Internet is an anti-tact elemental.

[Walhalla.5473]

> @"dost.4209" said:

> I don’t even understand. This behavior is not even open to discussion. She clearly insulted a person who expressed his opinion without hatred nor sexism. Yet she called them kitten. I don’t know the laws where you live but, in my country, you get jailed for 2 years for insulting. And since 2016 I think everything you shared in social media is taken as evidence.

 

Sounds like Germany, but with the things she is doing now ( with malicious intent ) I guess there would be more than just 2 years jail possible here.

[Ashen.2907]

> @"dost.4209" said:

> I don’t even understand. This behavior is not even open to discussion. She clearly insulted a person who expressed his opinion without hatred nor sexism. Yet she called them kitten. I don’t know the laws where you live but, in my country, you get jailed for 2 years for insulting. And since 2016 I think everything you shared in social media is taken as evidence.

 

Free speech, in terms of government interference, is enshrined here in the US. But there is nothing to say that a company cannot choose to distance itself from individuals whose words or actions adversely impact the company.

[morrolan.9608]

> @"dost.4209" said:

> I don’t even understand. This behavior is not even open to discussion. She clearly insulted a person who expressed his opinion without hatred nor sexism. Yet she called them kitten. I don’t know the laws where you live but, in my country, you get jailed for 2 years for insulting. And since 2016 I think everything you shared in social media is taken as evidence.

 

Jail for insults is clearly ridiculous. On reddit I get rude and insulting comments every week similar to what Price said.

 

> @"Walhalla.5473" said:

> Sounds like Germany, but with the things she is doing now ( with malicious intent ) I guess there would be more than just 2 years jail possible here.

 

What malicious intent?

 

 

[morrolan.9608]

> @"Greyraven.4258" said:

> What I find most disheartening is the way Bill Murphy a gaming journo over at MMORPG.com is pretty much assassinating MO's character and reputation with Impunity, I also think that one of the posters there stated pretty darned clearly how this is going to end up affecting the Community.......

 

Just read this and the only thing that stands out as poor is the paragraph about ex anet staff speaking about MOB. The rest of it is basically saying everyone made mistakes in this whole saga which I agree with. OTOH the stuff on MOB is hardly new, its basically the impression I've gathered from reading ex devs online but its probably best left for an article on its own at some point in the future.

[Vayne.8563]

> @"thruine.8510" said:

> > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said:

> >

> > But you are surmising that MO made the decision to fire PF solely on this latest transgression.. if so then I could perhaps agree with you it might of been overly harsh.. but that's just it, we don't know anything other than PF's bad judgement, in my opinion, to jump into something and tweet out in defence of another dev who had decided to use her attack on a fan as a way to set a much darker unwarranted and worse unfounded narrative regarding her employer.

>

> But we do. Mike gave that followup statement. He basically ignored PF to focus on JP as the internet as a whole has done. Its not going to change that narrative any way. Those that think as they do are going to think that way. Those in her camp are seeing a very different thing than those not. But I think MO has had enough time to at least craft a reason but he's keeping it to himself. Or the reason is already out there in that article. He was fired because a outspoken female dev was.

>

> > What constant feedback is being ignored.. I am confused because if your meaning ANET ignore community feedback then I think you might have a hard time backing that up because there has been lots of things altered, ,added and given by ANET based on community feedback, opinion, ideas and complaints. But remember everyone is a critic and to act on every piece of feedback would just be hugely unrealistic and believe me I have been a critic of this game a lot over the years.

>

> I've seen, and this is because I've gone back through past material, dungeons, personal story, combat ignored. I've experience these things. Gone back to researched them and why they are as they are. Then you want feedback. You've had it. Ignored it. You can't tell someone feedback is welcomed when clearly it isn't. You just want me to think it is but that to me is a major issue with any game. I think most of us would rather people are clear than outright lie to us. But I get that lying is much easier than facing what the truth can bring. I think I'm seeing a lot of lying concerning this company.

 

Nope., you can't tell when someone's feedback is ignored or not, because you don't know how much feedback you receive, or how good that feedback is. It's that simple. I ran a business myself and I got feedback all the time. Within the scope of the feedback I received, much of it was contradictory. As an example a lot of people said Orr was too hard. A lot of people felt it was fine the way it is and a few thought it should be harder. Orr was nerfed based on feedback that made a certain percentage of the fan base happy while hurting another percentage of the fan base.

 

Dungeons are a perfect example. Anet knows exactly what percentage of the population actually ran dungeons. I'm willing to wager it's not as high as people that like dungeons think it is. So they get a lot of loud feedback coming from a small percentage of the playerbase. However, even in that case....originally dungeons weren't very rewarding at all. So based on feedback, Anet added rewards to dungeons making them profitable and people did run them. Probably not most people in the game, but there was a dungeon running community that ran them all the time. Whatever percentage of the playerbase that is. Anet felt they could replace dungeons with Fractals and for the most part, that was successful. A lot of people liked Fractals and ran them. Dungeon rewards were gutted. People complained and though it did take some time (as things do in most bigger businesses) Anet restored much of the dungeon rewards. To this day they're far closer to the original profit than they are to the nerfed profit. Anet listened. They also changed HoT significantly based on complaints. they changed the WvW borderlands based on complaints and even ran polls so that WvW people could get involved in some of the decisions more directly.

 

Saying someone doesn't listen because you don't get what you want, indicates nothing at all. Except that you think everyone or most people want what you want.

 

The first time I remember Anet changing their mind based on fan response was prelaunch when they said there would be no RP walk in the game, and there would be no way to change eye color. Fans complained and Anet changed the narrative and put them in. But that doesn't mean they're going to implement every single thing that every single fan wants, because sometimes fans want conflicting things. Anyone who doesn't think Anet listens to us hasn't been paying attention. After all, there was a huge wave of people who didn't like stuff in hot from complexity of zones to how hard it was to grind for mastery points. Every single one of those complaints were addressed in PoF. POF is like the anti HOT for a reason. And now people are complaining that POF isn't good enough because it's not like HoT. So exactly how are they not listening to the playerbase?

[FrizzFreston.5290]

> @"Healix.5819" said:

> She's made some more comments on twitter. It's pretty much what you'd expect, like she did nothing wrong and blames ArenaNet, claiming they're harassing her by staying silent and letting this continue. She didn't like how MO credited her only for the 1 scene, so...

>

> Apparently she was in charge of season 4 and influenced all of it. She starts out saying everything is done by teams, but she led meetings and all dialogue went through her, following with "Everything you've seen of the story so far this season is my work, and you're going to be seeing my work in it for a long time." She goes on to say that a lot of the work we'll be seeing is led by women and it'll be the best content GW2 has ever produced because of it.

 

I can't understand her at all. I mean, some of it, mostly at the beginning I could see as understandable and I feel MO could've worded it more carefully (in hindsight) and maybe been a bit more protective of a female employee, who painted a target on her gender herselves, but okay, I guess, in order to protect other female employees from her drivel about gender I can see how that would be needed after that.

 

But other stuff doesn't make sense; where it's "Team effort" but "this whole season is "mine" Influence wise? what does that even mean? That you influenced everything at least a little? What about other devs contributions?

 

Twisting the the wording like: "he only credits me for one scene" where it was one of the best ones, which obviously means there's way more, while willfully ignoring the whole paragraph where MO says "we do not tolerate harassment", by saying MO doesn't condemn it (probably not enough I guess? ).

 

And what just infuriates me the most is the whole "Lots of other female developers in GW2!" Like anyone is surprised, we, well I, have known this for years if not a decade, thank you very much. Not naming them doesn't make much difference either. In fact I rather want to know who makes the amazing content to give credit where credit is due, but I guess she means the women need to be protected against criticism, which means, they can't receive praise either. I mean it's almost insulting to the female devs. They are just as amazing as the male devs.

[Bloodstealer.5978]

> @"Zaklex.6308" said:

> > @"Loli Ruri.8307" said:

> > > @"juhani.5361" said:

> > > > @"Loli Ruri.8307" said:

> > > > > @"juhani.5361" said:

> > > > > > @"Zabi Zabi.3561" said:

> > > > > > > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said:

> > > > > > > There's only one winner in this situation:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > + Not Ms. Price: She lost her job, which might have added to her stress.

> > > > > > > + Not Mr. Fries: He lost his job which he seems to have valued.

> > > > > > > + Not ANet management: at best they've acted in the way that was less of a loss, but no matter what they did, some group was going to be unhappy with them.

> > > > > > > + Not ANet staff: this kind of situation is going to have repercussions and effect staff's sense of camaraderie.

> > > > > > > + Not Deroir: though by comparison, his loss is almost not worth mentioning, this situation has got to leave a bad taste in the mouth.

> > > > > > > + Not the GW2 community: some are satisfied with ANet's reaction, some are not, but the affair has highlighted the divides between us more than any other interaction I've followed.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > The winner? The winner is people who like watching things burn.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > That means we all lost.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Price would have been hazardous to the company if she was kept around and kept insulting the PLAYER BASE OF THE GAME AND COMPANY SHE WORKED FOR!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Anet did the right thing by putting the COMMUNITY OF THE GAME FIRST before TOXIC EMPLOYEES!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > So the true winners are Anet, and the Community.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Some will have disagreeing opinions and will probably leave the game HOWEVER! I have noticed more new players coming in and that's a good thing!

> > > > >

> > > > > I'm a part of the community, and I definitely _don't_feel like this is a win. And, honestly, this whole situation is a setback for women in the gaming industry-- not to mention in society as a whole. Anet's actions were necessary, but they're nothing to be celebrated. All of this brigading and mob mentality does nothing but degrade the GW2 community.

> > > > How does removing a terrible person make it a setback for women in the gaming industry? I'm in the gaming industry, and I don't feel a setback at all. Wat? XD

> > >

> > > Been debating about answering this, since it taps into a lot of personal experience I'd rather forget. Reading a lot of the comments puts me back a good decade, with all the emotions and frustrations I felt as a female student in various IT classrooms around the Silicon Valley. I got singled out a few times, including one encounter with a professor I ended up taking to the dean, met with constant skepticism from male students, etc. You could walk into that environment as a complete clueless male noob who didn't know where the on button was and not be met with the same kind of condescension you'd get as a hardcore computer hobbyist with a server certification under her belt. I'm pretty laid back and easy-going, so I'd usually post stellar grades, help others with labs, etc. and "earn" respect by being better than most. But it really wears on you after a while. I got sick of it and quit, eventually. I can't imagine what dealing with that professionally would have been like.

> > >

> > > I think any woman in the tech and gaming industry has to have a steel spine, just like any man becoming an elementary school teacher or a nurse. I really don't. And I can imagine, knowing how I get, that I'd probably explode under the stress like JP may have.

> > >

> > > Reading the press out of this-- which is what most people in the industry are going to do-- would definitely deter me from wanting to enter the industry. Knowing that I could be targeted by internet mobs because a friend of mine exploded under such pressures would deter me from remaining in the industry. <--Been reading that a few female devs who knew JP have been bullied by the mobs. This whole scenario has a chilling effect on women's participation both now and in the future.

> > >

> > > Like I said before-- I think the firing decision was the right one. But none of the side-effects are good or beneficial in the long run. It's a titanic mess that's only getting worse.

> > This was a good read. But the reality is, I don't get the same experience. Maybe it's different here. But as a woman, I just don't get people giving me crap just for being a woman. In fact, I have learned to talk their language, and how to present myself in a manner that does not detract. Maybe it's because I don't expect the world to change for me, but for me to fit in. If somebody is giving me crap tho, I will call it out, but not to their face, but to HR, or to my boss. Because it's their job to handle those who don't want to work as a part of a team. Griping goes up, not down.

>

> Let's see here...first off, you shouldn't have to fit in, but neither should the world have to change for you...there has to be give and take on both sides to reach a middle ground. I'm also curious to know if when you do bring something up to HR or to your boss, do they investigate first and then offer solutions; or do they set up a meeting between you and the alleged harasser so you can sit down and take it over between yourselves to see if you can come up with your own solution? Because honestly, that's the way it should start, you start with a peer to peer meeting between the harasser and the harassee, if nothing can be worked out,, then you start moving up the ladder, first with your immediate superior...with an HR representative present at all time, but they're not there to say or do anything except observe and take notes.

 

Irs not what I would do for sure.. If I had such a serious complaint happen internally I wouldn't want either party sat in a room left to discuss

I would firstly investigate if there is anything of merit or just some redditor troll sounding off. If the claim has merit and there are definite grounds to investigate then that is what is done and all parties placed apart, perhaps with both placed on temporary while its happening.. when all the facts are known and all the boxes are ticked then a decision on how to move forward will be debated by the business leadership, HR, legal.

Put yourself in the shoes of the man or women if such claims are real and true.. how would you feel about sitting in a room for discussion with the other party.. no that is not how to handle it imo, in fact it could well serve to exacerbate the problem in other serious ways... any mediation should always be undertaken after the facts are known and all parties concerned have been briefed individually. Even if mediation is accepted by both parties, it should be carried out under proper senior management/HR or qualified / legal supervision imo.

[dontlook.1823]

I'm gonna be COMPLETELY honest. A LOT of people are side-stepping the fact that she was actually NICE to begin with. Although she was sarcastic, she ended her first response with 'my dude.' For those of you that don't know that's a term of endearment. I mean like look at it. Jessica is a professional developer she is not going to feed the ego of somebody who is not even in her field. Lets be real, someone who is as experienced as she is doesn't want to have a discussion with someone who completely lacks the nuance knowledge to even hold a conversation. The girl knows fluff spare me the bullshit. And for people attacking her character for what she said about totalbiscuit? That's clearly a reflection of people jumping to his defense not hers. She was kind enough to give the guy a shout out.

 

I am for sure going have to say I'm getting a BIG double standard here.

 

GUY walks up to experienced worker(male) with half an idea of what he is talking about gets dismissed goes and does it again to some other guy

GUY walks up to experienced worker(female) with half an idea of what he is talking about gets dismissed he engages with her... why? to try to prove his dominance. Because ultimately that's what this stupid rat race is all about.

the thread should have ended there no more or no less. take it or leave it. She was spot on with a bruised ego.

 

Such a shame, like, in the Guild chat that I apparently wasted my time in She even said she isn't afraid to speak up. That and she was pulled out of orientation which is live recorded on Twitch.tv. I mean the President of the United States does this shit on a Daily Basis. GTFO....

 

I was really looking forward to what she had to offer she was like a breath of fresh air. The stuff she came up with fit in nicely within the GW2 world. You could tell she worked really hard on her stuff.

 

Firing Peter Fries was just to cover Anets butts. Get real.