Nerf Winds of Disenchantment

[iKeostuKen.2738]

> @"revox.8273" said:

> ikeo, im confused about your confusion. when u will understand why warriors in zergs use hammer and not shields we will be in next expansion.

> all i see from you is complaining about everything but yourself, and from what i see u have no clue even about your class. engi is sooo amazing in wvw (if played right)

> just check [vT] xan on youtube, maybe u learn how engi works cuz ppl are tyred from explaining you the game

> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKxKCu6hIWMtgnkVRHCiMYA there ya go

 

You linked me a guy that mainly talks about holosmith, which isnt in a terrible position and doesnt really have a issue with a WoD Bubble because using photon forge atleast means that they are still able to engage in the fight. It doesnt really combat the issue at hand in anyway on projectiles vs WoD whether it is in a zerg or roaming small groups. If your party goes down and a Warrior drops a bubble on their bodies, as a Engineer (Not holosmith, scrapper), there is nothing you can do unless you have a melee weapon equipped.

 

Lets for instance turn this around. If a necromancer was able to place a large radius bubble that negated non projectile attacks, would this be balanced for those with a melee focused archetype?

 

Also, it seems people think I want to nerf the skill into the ground, All I want is for projectiles to still be effective against teams that decide to stack this crap around. If similar less powerful skills/build got nerfed for what they did well, I expect the same treatment for something that is currently providing to much for what it is and how its used.

[Bugabuga.9721]

Eh, maybe apply all the same nerfs other classes had?

 

Size will be much smaller (think ele's staff static field)

Limit number of targets that get boons ripped to three.

Cut the duration by half. If warrior wants it back to large bubble with 5 target give them a traits that also doubles the cooldown (3 minute wait for elite, yay)

Cut the applied damage, change number of ripped boons to 2 per second maximum, enemies can only be affected by one bubble at a time.

 

Am I missing anything? ?

[LetoII.3782]

> @"Bugabuga.9721" said:

 

> Am I missing anything? ?

 

Caster actually dies when attacked

[Aeolus.3615]

> @"LetoII.3782" said:

> > @"Bugabuga.9721" said:

>

> > Am I missing anything? ?

>

> Caster actually dies when attacked

 

What about the that skill that makes warriors invulnerable the entire week?> @"iKeostuKen.2738" said:

> > @"revox.8273" said:

> > ikeo, im confused about your confusion. when u will understand why warriors in zergs use hammer and not shields we will be in next expansion.

> > all i see from you is complaining about everything but yourself, and from what i see u have no clue even about your class. engi is sooo amazing in wvw (if played right)

> > just check [vT] xan on youtube, maybe u learn how engi works cuz ppl are tyred from explaining you the game

> > https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKxKCu6hIWMtgnkVRHCiMYA there ya go

>

> You linked me a guy that mainly talks about holosmith, which isnt in a terrible position and doesnt really have a issue with a WoD Bubble because using photon forge atleast means that they are still able to engage in the fight. It doesnt really combat the issue at hand in anyway on projectiles vs WoD whether it is in a zerg or roaming small groups. If your party goes down and a Warrior drops a bubble on their bodies, as a Engineer (Not holosmith, scrapper), there is nothing you can do unless you have a melee weapon equipped.

>

> Lets for instance turn this around. If a necromancer was able to place a large radius bubble that negated non projectile attacks, would this be balanced for those with a melee focused archetype?

>

> Also, it seems people think I want to nerf the skill into the ground, All I want is for projectiles to still be effective against teams that decide to stack this crap around. If similar less powerful skills/build got nerfed for what they did well, I expect the same treatment for something that is currently providing to much for what it is and how its used.

 

Unblockables and AOE still hit trough it...

[iKeostuKen.2738]

> @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> > @"LetoII.3782" said:

> > > @"Bugabuga.9721" said:

> >

> > > Am I missing anything? ?

> >

> > Caster actually dies when attacked

>

> What about the that skill that makes warriors invulnerable the entire week?> @"iKeostuKen.2738" said:

> > > @"revox.8273" said:

> > > ikeo, im confused about your confusion. when u will understand why warriors in zergs use hammer and not shields we will be in next expansion.

> > > all i see from you is complaining about everything but yourself, and from what i see u have no clue even about your class. engi is sooo amazing in wvw (if played right)

> > > just check [vT] xan on youtube, maybe u learn how engi works cuz ppl are tyred from explaining you the game

> > > https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKxKCu6hIWMtgnkVRHCiMYA there ya go

> >

> > You linked me a guy that mainly talks about holosmith, which isnt in a terrible position and doesnt really have a issue with a WoD Bubble because using photon forge atleast means that they are still able to engage in the fight. It doesnt really combat the issue at hand in anyway on projectiles vs WoD whether it is in a zerg or roaming small groups. If your party goes down and a Warrior drops a bubble on their bodies, as a Engineer (Not holosmith, scrapper), there is nothing you can do unless you have a melee weapon equipped.

> >

> > Lets for instance turn this around. If a necromancer was able to place a large radius bubble that negated non projectile attacks, would this be balanced for those with a melee focused archetype?

> >

> > Also, it seems people think I want to nerf the skill into the ground, All I want is for projectiles to still be effective against teams that decide to stack this crap around. If similar less powerful skills/build got nerfed for what they did well, I expect the same treatment for something that is currently providing to much for what it is and how its used.

>

> Unblockables and AOE still hit trough it...

 

Engie doesnt really have those, aside from bomb kit(lol). Pretty much everything else is a projectile based skill.

[Aeolus.3615]

> @"iKeostuKen.2738" said:

> > @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> > > @"LetoII.3782" said:

> > > > @"Bugabuga.9721" said:

> > >

> > > > Am I missing anything? ?

> > >

> > > Caster actually dies when attacked

> >

> > What about the that skill that makes warriors invulnerable the entire week?> @"iKeostuKen.2738" said:

> > > > @"revox.8273" said:

> > > > ikeo, im confused about your confusion. when u will understand why warriors in zergs use hammer and not shields we will be in next expansion.

> > > > all i see from you is complaining about everything but yourself, and from what i see u have no clue even about your class. engi is sooo amazing in wvw (if played right)

> > > > just check [vT] xan on youtube, maybe u learn how engi works cuz ppl are tyred from explaining you the game

> > > > https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKxKCu6hIWMtgnkVRHCiMYA there ya go

> > >

> > > You linked me a guy that mainly talks about holosmith, which isnt in a terrible position and doesnt really have a issue with a WoD Bubble because using photon forge atleast means that they are still able to engage in the fight. It doesnt really combat the issue at hand in anyway on projectiles vs WoD whether it is in a zerg or roaming small groups. If your party goes down and a Warrior drops a bubble on their bodies, as a Engineer (Not holosmith, scrapper), there is nothing you can do unless you have a melee weapon equipped.

> > >

> > > Lets for instance turn this around. If a necromancer was able to place a large radius bubble that negated non projectile attacks, would this be balanced for those with a melee focused archetype?

> > >

> > > Also, it seems people think I want to nerf the skill into the ground, All I want is for projectiles to still be effective against teams that decide to stack this crap around. If similar less powerful skills/build got nerfed for what they did well, I expect the same treatment for something that is currently providing to much for what it is and how its used.

> >

> > Unblockables and AOE still hit trough it...

>

> Engie doesnt really have those, aside from bomb kit(lol). Pretty much everything else is a projectile based skill.

 

I really tough holos had it cause mos holos melt me trough Rev blocks shield and herald heal.

[iKeostuKen.2738]

> @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> > @"iKeostuKen.2738" said:

> > > @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> > > > @"LetoII.3782" said:

> > > > > @"Bugabuga.9721" said:

> > > >

> > > > > Am I missing anything? ?

> > > >

> > > > Caster actually dies when attacked

> > >

> > > What about the that skill that makes warriors invulnerable the entire week?> @"iKeostuKen.2738" said:

> > > > > @"revox.8273" said:

> > > > > ikeo, im confused about your confusion. when u will understand why warriors in zergs use hammer and not shields we will be in next expansion.

> > > > > all i see from you is complaining about everything but yourself, and from what i see u have no clue even about your class. engi is sooo amazing in wvw (if played right)

> > > > > just check [vT] xan on youtube, maybe u learn how engi works cuz ppl are tyred from explaining you the game

> > > > > https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKxKCu6hIWMtgnkVRHCiMYA there ya go

> > > >

> > > > You linked me a guy that mainly talks about holosmith, which isnt in a terrible position and doesnt really have a issue with a WoD Bubble because using photon forge atleast means that they are still able to engage in the fight. It doesnt really combat the issue at hand in anyway on projectiles vs WoD whether it is in a zerg or roaming small groups. If your party goes down and a Warrior drops a bubble on their bodies, as a Engineer (Not holosmith, scrapper), there is nothing you can do unless you have a melee weapon equipped.

> > > >

> > > > Lets for instance turn this around. If a necromancer was able to place a large radius bubble that negated non projectile attacks, would this be balanced for those with a melee focused archetype?

> > > >

> > > > Also, it seems people think I want to nerf the skill into the ground, All I want is for projectiles to still be effective against teams that decide to stack this crap around. If similar less powerful skills/build got nerfed for what they did well, I expect the same treatment for something that is currently providing to much for what it is and how its used.

> > >

> > > Unblockables and AOE still hit trough it...

> >

> > Engie doesnt really have those, aside from bomb kit(lol). Pretty much everything else is a projectile based skill.

>

> Both rev and engie do it, was it fixed on engie?

 

Which skill are you refering to for engie? I know revs can since theres arent really projectile based and more like ground targeted actions.

[Aeolus.3615]

> @"iKeostuKen.2738" said:

> > @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> > > @"iKeostuKen.2738" said:

> > > > @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> > > > > @"LetoII.3782" said:

> > > > > > @"Bugabuga.9721" said:

> > > > >

> > > > > > Am I missing anything? ?

> > > > >

> > > > > Caster actually dies when attacked

> > > >

> > > > What about the that skill that makes warriors invulnerable the entire week?> @"iKeostuKen.2738" said:

> > > > > > @"revox.8273" said:

> > > > > > ikeo, im confused about your confusion. when u will understand why warriors in zergs use hammer and not shields we will be in next expansion.

> > > > > > all i see from you is complaining about everything but yourself, and from what i see u have no clue even about your class. engi is sooo amazing in wvw (if played right)

> > > > > > just check [vT] xan on youtube, maybe u learn how engi works cuz ppl are tyred from explaining you the game

> > > > > > https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKxKCu6hIWMtgnkVRHCiMYA there ya go

> > > > >

> > > > > You linked me a guy that mainly talks about holosmith, which isnt in a terrible position and doesnt really have a issue with a WoD Bubble because using photon forge atleast means that they are still able to engage in the fight. It doesnt really combat the issue at hand in anyway on projectiles vs WoD whether it is in a zerg or roaming small groups. If your party goes down and a Warrior drops a bubble on their bodies, as a Engineer (Not holosmith, scrapper), there is nothing you can do unless you have a melee weapon equipped.

> > > > >

> > > > > Lets for instance turn this around. If a necromancer was able to place a large radius bubble that negated non projectile attacks, would this be balanced for those with a melee focused archetype?

> > > > >

> > > > > Also, it seems people think I want to nerf the skill into the ground, All I want is for projectiles to still be effective against teams that decide to stack this crap around. If similar less powerful skills/build got nerfed for what they did well, I expect the same treatment for something that is currently providing to much for what it is and how its used.

> > > >

> > > > Unblockables and AOE still hit trough it...

> > >

> > > Engie doesnt really have those, aside from bomb kit(lol). Pretty much everything else is a projectile based skill.

> >

> > Both rev and engie do it, was it fixed on engie?

>

> Which skill are you refering to for engie? I know revs can since theres arent really projectile based and more like ground targeted actions.

 

NVM me on that one... i changed the text, initially tough i was quoting another thread...

 

Achievement unlocked "the failed multitasker "

[Hot Boy.7138]

I think it's a good skill and worthy of being an elite. I don't think it should be changed.

[Aeolus.3615]

> @"Hot Boy.7138" said:

> I think it's a good skill and worthy of being an elite. I don't think it should be changed.

 

 

IT isnt so bad nowadays..i kinda share that tough has in a good skill, but... i have to criticize the weak/poor skills system this game has.

 

DH and Jalis rev's with force engagement need to be prepared to pull/tount the poor soul. :<.

 

Issue is most do it to the midle of the zerg xD since every one tryed to be stacked in same cell....rather than pull/ppush this guys from hitting the main group.

 

And reason we need stance enders like we had in GW1, ending shouts is not needed since most poop's boons at left and right and in center, and shouts loosed their identity, but stances dont have counter. (rahter than have a clever system skill they made everything boon and boon removal it resulted in a mess where impossible to balance towards decent and interesting gameplay).

 

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Stance

Players using stance and shouts should have their respestive icon on the "BoonsBar" and a visual arround toon so a counter could be applied if needed or available, not from the massive boon hate vs boon spam...

 

Still..Endure pain is 2 seconds, it was nerfed to avoid getting a counter xD that's the only window they have to drop it

[iKeostuKen.2738]

Weird how when you have too many skills, things tend to somehow balance itself out more then when you lower the amt of skills in a game and then somehow struggle to balance it.

[Kiroshima.8497]

Personally, I'd actually prefer to move WoD's power to the spellbreaker's burst skills, like reducing the target cap and then adding disenchantment to the bursts (not full counter).

 

HOWEVER, another interesting thing to do would be to categorize all aoe effects by offensive/defensive (or both), and then have WoD destroy ALL defensive/mixed ones while no longer affecting projectiles. Then also adjust Sanctuary (guardian Consecration) to negate the effect of Offensive/Mixed circles (and still destroy projectiles). All melee cleaves are ignored by both (melee cleave should be the most consistent performing attack type due to its low target cap and high risk).

 

But I don't believe GW2 has the tech for that so RIP.

 

But seriously we need anti AoE skills, not anti projectile skills.

[Jerry CCH.9816]

hope Anet Change it B)

[Artaz.3819]

> @"Jski.6180" said:

> They need to add in a projectile that is not effected by destruction but still block-able. Mostly slow big projectiles should not be destructible.

 

Like Revenant Hammer? Yes, buff more

[Artaz.3819]

> @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> > @"Hot Boy.7138" said:

> > I think it's a good skill and worthy of being an elite. I don't think it should be changed.

>

>

> IT isnt so bad nowadays..i kinda share that tough has in a good skill, but... i have to criticize the weak/poor skills system this game has.

>

> DH and Jalis rev's with force engagement need to be prepared to pull/tount the poor soul. :<.

>

> Issue is most do it to the midle of the zerg xD since every one tryed to be stacked in same cell....rather than pull/ppush this guys from hitting the main group.

>

> And reason we need stance enders like we had in GW1, ending shouts is not needed since most poop's boons at left and right and in center, and shouts loosed their identity, but stances dont have counter. (rahter than have a clever system skill they made everything boon and boon removal it resulted in a mess where impossible to balance towards decent and interesting gameplay).

>

> https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Stance

> Players using stance and shouts should have their respestive icon on the "BoonsBar" and a visual arround toon so a counter could be applied if needed or available, not from the massive boon hate vs boon spam...

>

> Still..Endure pain is 2 seconds, it was nerfed to avoid getting a counter xD that's the only window they have to drop it

 

1. Wrong Guild Wars, we are Guild Wars 2

2. Endure Pain is 4s (Defy Pain is 4s too) and that's without Last Stand traited which adds another 1s

 

It's really the back-to-back of Endure Pain + Defy Pain + block/GS evade + dodges that makes it possible to hit with WoD.

 

That all said, people forget what the boon meta was so very quickly.

 

[Handin.4032]

Again, they could greatly fix and balance it with probably 1 line of code. Change the color of bad bubble from dark gold -> red/pink. Or at least add an additional thing to make it stand out. Since they're "hazy" with no surface effects really, I've even found with multiple bubbles it becomes a bit difficult to directly tell boundary regions between your good bubbles and bad. Change the color, see how things go from there. Color change shouldn't be complicated.

[Israel.7056]

Yeah I find them to be visually disorienting especially when there are several onscreen at once.

[Jaruselka.5943]

why not make the bubble destructible like the Kodan ice shield?

[Jski.6180]

> @"Artaz.3819" said:

> > @"Jski.6180" said:

> > They need to add in a projectile that is not effected by destruction but still block-able. Mostly slow big projectiles should not be destructible.

>

> Like Revenant Hammer? Yes, buff more

 

I guess hammer 2 hammer 1 is very much destructionable. Slower and "big" projectiles need to be not effected by destruction.

[BadMed.3846]

Just being a strong elite skill doesn't mean it needs to be nerfed. Look at the bigger picture. Winds actually make wvw fights more engaging and enjoyable. You really think winds are stronger than firebrand tomes and necro Wells? Not a direct comparison, but look at how those skills contribute.

 

Stop wrecking the game by calling in Nerf this and Nerf that. Only cheese builds in 1v1s need a real Nerf. At this stage I can only this of Mirage as broken and needing netfs.

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"BadMed.3846" said:

> Stop wrecking the game by calling in Nerf this and Nerf that. Only cheese builds in 1v1s need a real Nerf. At this stage I can only this of Mirage as broken and needing netfs.

Hypocritical much? WvW isnt balanced for 1v1 any more than it is for 50v50.

[Sovereign.1093]

wvw is relatively balanced or can be if the time frame for it is controlled and no 7 days a week.

[Voltekka.2375]

> @"iKeostuKen.2738" said:

> Not really understanding why running a shield as a offhand weapon in a zerg setting is a joke, especially being a frontliner. But you are the WvW expert I suppose who knows how everyone should be playing in a WvW Blob fest. Also warrior is pretty much a high armored class that has a higher base hp then everyone else, not sure how this one continues to fly over your head. Toughness is also very invaluable, while it allows you to soak up a extra hit or 2 by yourself, currently in the state of the game many classes do to much damage whether you have it or dont. Glass thief backstabs combo can render that toughness mute. Your better investing more points into pushing your damage especially if you are power instead of condition. But I guess if your running toughness on a warrior's power build instead of marauders, im the one doing things wrong as well. And yes toughness is overrated. Condi not so much since over the past months its been getting more counterplay while scourges have received nerfs.

>

> So your agreeing with my point that warrior is indeed a strong class that wouldnt suffer from a WoD nerf? Im confused on what your saying or continuing to try and belittle me from your "blob only" perspective of how a warrior should function instead of looking at pvp as a whole.

>

> I dont have to run anything meta to be effective in a zerg, My goal is not to be in the forfront of the blob to push with the commander but to apply support and the usual damage on those who fall off the tag. Both of which I cant do with a projectile based weapon because having 2+ bubbles that control a choke stops me from pretty much achieving any of those. Whether I go in or not since projectile based skills wont work anywhere unless the enemy zerg pushes through.

 

No worries, bud. People who quote metabattle as bei g THE best there is, usuay cannot think beyond that. Of course gs/ axe-shield warr is a thing in blobs. It purely depends on your playstyle, on your blob composition, on your teammates' experience, everything is a factor. Sure, vabbies (who mainly consist of fighting guilds) use mostly hammer. Personally, I remember a top gandara commander, who uses shield when playing sB. He explains it to me in detail. He has been leading for 4+years. Is he ignorant? I quite honestly think not. People who simply copy past metabattle builds are not bad, theyre not great either. I mean, look at trailblazer scourge, it was meta in blobs, while a lot of people in my server were playing power scourge long before it became meta, thus resulting in much better dmg spikes. Imagine 220% crit dmg with 100 % crit chance power build long before the shade cooldowns were nerfed.

That being said, warr is by no means OP. Neither is WoD. People tend to forget that scourge absurd booncorrupting and WoD are the answers to the mindless boonspamming of firebrands. Literally, that is all you can do. Place an awesome WoD, follow it up with cc dmg spike to counter the endless boons.

[BadMed.3846]

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > @"BadMed.3846" said:

> > Stop wrecking the game by calling in Nerf this and Nerf that. Only cheese builds in 1v1s need a real Nerf. At this stage I can only this of Mirage as broken and needing netfs.

> Hypocritical much? WvW isnt balanced for 1v1 any more than it is for 50v50.

 

If you're still searching for balance then perhaps you're in the wrong game. Tell me when we've ever had balance? I remember in early days of the game someone asking a Dev what to do when you come across a thief in wvw. Answer was "you run". We don't really need absolute balance. It's just impossible as each class contributes differently.

Let's stop searching for balance alone. Nerfs are only really needed for game breaking skills. Winds might seem too much to some, but there are plenty of other skills that are well more OP in other gameplay scenarios.

[Aeolus.3615]

> @"Sovereign.1093" said:

> wvw is relatively balanced or can be if the time frame for it is controlled and no 7 days a week.

 

That would make me drop the game completelly since theres no point of play it, if i want fast and short pvp action i would be playing spvp or some other more decent pvp game.

 

Bsides im interested in Ashes of creation cause it is a continuous progressive WvW game, and not some fast action instant results game, wich makes your playtime kinda useless cause that means your effort gets reseted several times in gw2 if batles were short.... and for large scale combat shortening times dont make any sense.

 

 

On topic: WoD is a result of the bad skill design, everything ended being BOOOOON STACK, stances results in boons, shouts results in boons, mantras, etc,etc, are just for BOOOOON STACK.

 

Wich results in strong boon denials, also beign created.

 

The problem of the game is that players are used to stack boons, even on pve mobs are awfull, since they dont heal/remove boons/ remove condis, so players only want to boon stack and in wvw when theres a skill that remove booons, players QQ.

 

Anet needs to add WoD like skills and more mass boon removel to pve :D and i ment ALOT of them.

Melee champs should have a KD or KB aoe skill that removed boons, magical classes a WoD massive skills, with mediocre CD casts.