Coming Tomorrow 7/10/18 – Balance Patch

[Blocki.4931]

> @"Zedek.8932" said:

> > @"aswedishtiger.7320" said:

> > Finally quitting Black Desert and returning here where devs actually care and talk to their community is such a fresh breath of air. I was choking on so much poison with that game

> >

> > You guys have no idea how good you have it

>

> Mh, but to be honest, this is just a rare case. PvP gets some attention here and there about bugs and stuck games, but for example, the Deadeye rework was a one-post and no other tought, no other explanation, the reasons for that (apart from the opening post) or something on it why and how. Two responses on the bugs or something by Robert Gee. That's it.

>

> The users, however, created **1,082 responses** and gathered **over 62,000 views** and about 2 months of total silence by aNet. That's not great, it's the real opposite.

> RIOT in their early state was far, far superior to that. Just check the devtracker, too. It's either joke threads with banter or bug reports that are aknowledged.

>

> The forum chat is too selected in my opinion, but fair enough, if you wish to count that in...

>

> If I check the Bless updates (yes, I also enjoy the few working breadcrumps of that game!), they have more attention on their more frequent developer letters than arenaNet in the last couple of months.

>

> EDIT: Maybe they need good PR now after the "We don't ask for your feedback" debacle on Twitter [Mr. O'Brien: "We make the game for you, we care"] and they post 2 more posts a week for a while until it stals again.

>

> Excelsior.

 

You can't make it right. Anet can't win, if they tell people what's coming up or not. Being quiet or posting "we are working on it" is the best course of action and they are definitely NOT ignoring the feedback. That much is obvious. It's ridiculous to say that they don't give us any attention. Could it be more? Sure. But you can't forget that it's our fault they don't tell us as much in the first place. Feedback is 99% awful because "OMG WTF ARE YOU THINKING" or because changes end up shipping differently, causing a whole other kind of shitstorm. No win there.

 

They have stated that they are looking into Deadeye. How is that not enough? We all know in what frequency we will get balance patches, roughly every 3 months and not necessarily tied to a LS release. So please put the pitchforks back (not only directed at you but all those other people too)

[crepuscular.9047]

> @"Kyraios.8954" said:

> > @"crepuscular.9047" said:

> > > @"Drop The Bass.9516" said:

> > > Is this patch going to change Epidemic in any way? :)

> >

> > stop discriminating against Necros

> >

> > DH traps are the ones need rework, way too OP ;)

>

> are we playing the same game? dh traps are op compared to the damage dots cc shields and buffs everything else scourge has? you must be a necro main

 

Tempest and Druid main :lol:

 

I always see DH, Spellbreakers and Weavers sitting on the top DPS charts

Scourges sitting in the middle of the chart unless Epi, a 1 skill pony to boost to top of DPS chart for that brief 2 secs

 

 

[Odik.4587]

> @"Irenio CalmonHuang.2048" said:

 

Passed alrdy more than year (or may be even 2 soon lol) when I reported many times that guardian smiters boon trait does more damage than original Smite condition ,its hard to fix numbers (pvp wise)?

[Sojourner.4621]

> @"crepuscular.9047" said:

> > @"Kyraios.8954" said:

> > > @"crepuscular.9047" said:

> > > > @"Drop The Bass.9516" said:

> > > > Is this patch going to change Epidemic in any way? :)

> > >

> > > stop discriminating against Necros

> > >

> > > DH traps are the ones need rework, way too OP ;)

> >

> > are we playing the same game? dh traps are op compared to the damage dots cc shields and buffs everything else scourge has? you must be a necro main

>

> Tempest and Druid main :lol:

>

> I always see DH, Spellbreakers and Weavers sitting on the top DPS charts

> Scourges sitting in the middle of the chart unless Epi, a 1 skill pony to boost to top of DPS chart for that brief 2 secs

>

>

 

https://snowcrows.com/benchmarks/

 

DH appears once on this list... on large hitbox only, and core guardian outperforms it....

 

https://discretize.eu/builds

 

Fractal benches... It performs at the same level as D/D Deadeye.... These days pretty much any DPS brings more utility to the team (Except thief)

[faytte.1057]

 

> https://snowcrows.com/benchmarks/

>

> DH appears once on this list... on large hitbox only, and core guardian outperforms it....

>

> https://discretize.eu/builds

>

> Fractal benches... It performs at the same level as D/D Deadeye.... These days pretty much any DPS brings more utility to the team (Except thief)

 

Pretty much this. DH is not in a great place outside of its burst in fractals. Core Guardian is a better spec all around. DH longbow is woefully undertuned and slow. The spec is pretty uninteresting as a whole, with only 2 of the traps every seeing any real use.

[Anthony.3207]

I have been playing engineer for years and I find that they tend to perform badly. Holosmith is ok I guess but engineer seems really strong in spvp and solo pve content. Engineer doesn't really do good in fractals raids or wvw and they don't have too many viable builds outside holosmith.

 

I know engineer and reve are the least played professions and don't bring much money to the game.

 

I also know that people will play what is most over powered and if engineer gets buffed people will flock to engineer.

 

I play engineer because I find the class that doesn't fit in combat - mechanically interesting.

 

Every other class has define roles in wvw fractals spvp raids solo pve. Engineer just feels like it is not exciting or flashy

 

Still I enjoy engineer very much. I am also a extremely spiritual and wise person but I am very unintelligent and unorthadox.

 

I would love engineer buffs or new changes to keep engineer interesting - but if not.. it's fine. I play engineer because I love the class and I never switch mains to win or for power.

 

I think engineer is a mystical class because it's not over powered or flashy or interesting. It's pretty much boring to everyone. In many ways - engineer is a sacred profession for a certain mindset.

 

Any ways I can't wait for the patch. I bought gems this month and buying more gems next month for the anniversary sale. Thanks anet. Have a good one.

[reapex.8546]

Hoping to see the return of Condition Engineer :D

[Etheri.5406]

> @"Theros.1390" said:

> > @"DiogoSilva.7089" said:

> > Some of the "pvp nerfs" done a while ago, like the nerfs to Dragon Hunter's longbow and Herald's shield, should be reverted to their original state for PvE.

>

> Same for the Celestial Avatar. The druid has lost his ability to correctly burst heal when needed in PvE. It brings heal, indeed, but not enough in a short amount of time.

 

Druid was nerfed for PvE, as it should be. It's still the only meta healer, and several bosses are even being done without healers.

Just like SoI near release was nerfed for both WvW and PvE. Many PvE players blamed WvW for the SoI nerf, yet SoI was very problematic in PvE and chrono has - 2 years and many nerfs later - still not found an equal alternative, much less a replacement.

 

I hope this patch finally guts chrono, druid and BS providing ALTERNATIVES which are actually worthwhile at a high level; not only at low levels.

[Rysdude.3824]

Im hoping for improvements to Scrapper and taking Mirage down a notch or four.

[LadyKitty.6120]

> @"faytte.1057" said:

>

> > https://snowcrows.com/benchmarks/

> >

> > DH appears once on this list... on large hitbox only, and core guardian outperforms it....

> >

> > https://discretize.eu/builds

> >

> > Fractal benches... It performs at the same level as D/D Deadeye.... These days pretty much any DPS brings more utility to the team (Except thief)

>

> Pretty much this. DH is not in a great place outside of its burst in fractals. Core Guardian is a better spec all around. DH longbow is woefully undertuned and slow. The spec is pretty uninteresting as a whole, with only 2 of the traps every seeing any real use.

 

There's just one problem about core guardian: it uses Unscathed Contender to go above rad/zeal DH and UC isn't quite realistic in most scenarios unless you're top-tier at avoiding hits or/and you have a chrono giving you aegis every few secs. Meanwhile power zeal/rad DH is very realistic to pull off.

[Caligrafers Blade.3871]

Apart from the mounts, I really wanted PoF for Renegade and Deadeye. I gave up playing Deadeye almost immediately. Glad to hear DE is getting more thought, especially now that I was going to come to terms with the funny gameplay and suck it up. But please Anet, tell me I'm not wrong in thinking the Renegade shortbow could do with some mods too. That would be 'the' patch I'd be looking out for.

[Zunki.3916]

> @"Irenio CalmonHuang.2048" said:

 

> There has also been a broad effort to target outliers traits and abilities on each profession.

 

I want to tell you this is actually the most important thing for me. I love playing different builds and such changes make this better and better. The improvement of signet of fire alongside with the glyph of storms rework opened up multiple non-meta builds which are a lot of fun for me.

 

While I'm at it some points to consider:

* Please make Signet of Earth also work like Signet of Fire (range check!). It makes no sense the way it is right now. I'm also not sure if Signet of Fire works the same underwater as on land in that regards.

* Some glyphs take the attunment on start of the cast to determine the outcome while others take the attunment at the execution of the cast. This feels very random and there doesen't seem to be a logic behind. I'd mostly prefer determine it on start of the cast for all glyphs.

* Soothing myst should target 10 players instead of 5, or build it into the soothing myst trait (maybe PvE only, don't know about the WvW impact). This would simply feel better without changing too much on raids.

 

 

[Raizel.8175]

> @"foozlesprite.8051" said:

> > @"Sarumsa.3895" said:

> > Small changes can be:

> > Buffs to holo sword, Weaver sword, Ranger g.sword, may be Reaper, some small changes to Deadeye, may be DH's longbow but not sure

> > I have big hopes Anet, pls dont break my heart.

> >

> A buff to Weaver sword would make my heart go pitter patter. I made my first legendary (Bolt) in celebration of finally being able to use a sword on my ele...only to find that it's pretty subpar. It's not in the (staff, it's always a staff) meta, so you're pretty much not _allowed_ to do group content with it. And tell me, in what universe does it make sense for dagger moves to have longer ranges than sword moves? A damage and/or range boost would go a long way, even if you didn't touch any skills.

 

Fun fact: Sword Weaver is already stronger than most other builds.

 

I agree though that staff should be nerfed. An AoE-weapon shouldn't also do the highest single-target dps. Especially when you also can use it ranged. Sword Weaver should be the way to go considering healthy balance.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"Raizel.8175" said:

> I agree though that staff should be nerfed. An AoE-weapon shouldn't also do the highest single-target dps. Especially when you also can use it ranged. Sword Weaver should be the way to go considering healthy balance.

 

The main problem with Staff is that damage is all it can do well. If you swap attunements to do anything else your DPS will go to the ground. Which makes Staff a very problematic weapon in story instances for example, or even when you are solo in the world, you must swap attunements to provide CC, and doing that causes your DPS to plummet. A Staff Elementalist is in a bad spot right now, outside group play, and reducing the damage of Staff would make this even worse. It's already hard to finish story instances with a Staff Elementalist, reducing the one thing they do well, dps, will make it even harder. People tend to think with benchmarks and group content viability only, but that's not the entire game, there is more to it that also needs to be properly balanced.

[aswedishtiger.7320]

When does maint begin? What is the maint schedule? I can't find this information anywhere, figured I'd ask

[Raizel.8175]

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > @"Raizel.8175" said:

> > I agree though that staff should be nerfed. An AoE-weapon shouldn't also do the highest single-target dps. Especially when you also can use it ranged. Sword Weaver should be the way to go considering healthy balance.

>

> The main problem with Staff is that damage is all it can do well. If you swap attunements to do anything else your DPS will go to the ground. Which makes Staff a very problematic weapon in story instances for example, or even when you are solo in the world, you must swap attunements to provide CC, and doing that causes your DPS to plummet. A Staff Elementalist is in a bad spot right now, outside group play, and reducing the damage of Staff would make this even worse. It's already hard to finish story instances with a Staff Elementalist, reducing the one thing they do well, dps, will make it even harder. People tend to think with benchmarks and group content viability only, but that's not the entire game, there is more to it that also needs to be properly balanced.

 

You have conjures for CC?

 

The thing with Elementalist is that it's reduced to its dps even though the class has quite a powerful toolkit. If you'd bring it more in line with other classes, people may finally start to stop reducing the class to dps only.

[LadyGal.8365]

Dost thou to mean thine chronomancer well skills worketh under liquidine depths cometh thee tenth of jewel of my eye?

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"Raizel.8175" said:

> You have conjures for CC?

 

Conjures are even worse, CC usually requires timing and outside Raids where bosses have clear phases, this timing is rather hard to follow in any other encounter. Where is the powerful toolkit? Most other builds can CC and DPS at the same time, as those skills are part of their regular skillbar. The Elementalist on the other hand has to swap attunements to do anything other than damage. The cooldowns on attunement swap take care of everything else, you can't easily go back to DPS after you CC, something most other builds out there can do easily. Plus, the damage of a Staff Elementalist is horrible on moving targets, and smaller targets. Fight Joko as Staff Elementalist/Weaver, then fight him with any other meta build and you'll see the difference.

 

Staff Elementalist needs serious buffs, not nerfs. Especially in the way they do damage, less over time damage, more instant damage. The change to Meteor Shower was a good one, nerfing Staff in instanced content where you have your pet healer and tank, while buffing the damage when you are solo. More of that is needed because Staff needs all the buffs it can get to be viable outside those instances.

[DeWolfe.2174]

5 years later, I'd just like my Flesh Golem to be able to go into the water. In 5 years we can't get this fixed?

[Zunki.3916]

> @"DeWolfe.2174" said:

> 5 years later, I'd just like my Flesh Golem to be able to go into the water. In 5 years we can't get this fixed?

Need underwater themed elementals :)

[Aza.2105]

> @"Ragnarox.9601" said:

> so decreasing guardian spirit weapon cd's plus signet decrease cd's incoming.

> And nerfing Guardian overall.

> Seen in every patch so nothing new for guardians.

 

This is exactly what will probably happen.

[ReaverKane.7598]

> @"Irenio CalmonHuang.2048" said:

> > @"Ariurotl.3718" said:

> > Since skill splitting seems to be the current trend, can we get a look at PvE versions of various underperforming skills? The preceding opposite trend of un-splitting things ages ago ruined lots of skills for PvE (turrets, anyone?) and while competitive play balance understandably comes first, PvE deserves some love too.

>

> We're going to keep splitting skills, traits, etc as appropriate to keep different modes power levels from going to the extremes. This will happen on numeric levels, not functional levels.

>

> * A numeric difference is a skill inflicting heavy damage in one mode and moderate damage in another.

> * A functional difference is a skill granting stability in one mode and granting swiftness in another.

>

> The reasoning behind this is to make it easily understood that when you swap modes an ability or trait still fundamentally DOES what it did before. You don't have to re-learn from scratch.

 

This allows for you to do something like that to confusion, for example (which allows you to balance mesmer properly, without having to front-load it for PvE, which makes it too powerful in PvP), you could easily split it (again) so that it uses the current, on-skill heavy mode for PvP, and the old damage over-time heavy one for PvE.

 

The current iteration of just doing more damage to NPCs on skill activation doesn't make up for the fact that 90% of them have very insignificant attack rates, compared to players.

 

With current implementation, confusion suffered a significant step back towards the early days where it was basically considered a pvp condition, with the added severity, that back then due to the 25 stack limit, people didn't care much for condi builds, and they do now, so it makes somewhat less sense to effect that change in current terms now.

 

Also, personally, i believe this reluctance to changing effects, even if it's slightly, might be causing you to have a much harder time with balance.

 

Also i'd beg you guys to please explain the reasoning for changes in patch notes, this also allows for players to understand the reasoning better, and give more accurate feedback. You've done this several times in the past, and it would be great if you could do this consistently, pretty sure it would make everyone's job much easier. I mean we can give better feedback, since we don't have to guess why some changes are effected, some are obvious, some aren't. And you can work with much more accurate feedback, not having to filter out the guesstimates of what your direction is.

[Justine.6351]

> @"Irenio CalmonHuang.2048" said:

> > @"Ariurotl.3718" said:

> > Since skill splitting seems to be the current trend, can we get a look at PvE versions of various underperforming skills? The preceding opposite trend of un-splitting things ages ago ruined lots of skills for PvE (turrets, anyone?) and while competitive play balance understandably comes first, PvE deserves some love too.

>

> We're going to keep splitting skills, traits, etc as appropriate to keep different modes power levels from going to the extremes. This will happen on numeric levels, not functional levels.

>

> * A numeric difference is a skill inflicting heavy damage in one mode and moderate damage in another.

> * A functional difference is a skill granting stability in one mode and granting swiftness in another.

>

> The reasoning behind this is to make it easily understood that when you swap modes an ability or trait still fundamentally DOES what it did before. You don't have to re-learn from scratch.

 

Flashbacks from guild wars 1 pve/pvp skill splits still haunting me.

 

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Signet_of_Spirits

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Signet_of_Spirits_(PvP)

[apharma.3741]

> @"Master Ketsu.4569" said:

> > @"Irenio CalmonHuang.2048" said:

> > > @"apharma.3741" said:

> > > How long will we be looking at for balance patches at the moment if an unintended consequence of tomorrows balance patch makes something very unfun to play against where you see it stacked 3-4 on almost every team like condition scourge was at Path of Fire launch or condition mirage now?

> >

> > That question doesn't have an easy answer.

> >

> > If something mechanically breaks as a result, we hotfix that as soon as we're able to. That means creating a fix, getting it tested and having a hotfix build prepared for it.

> > If something is unfun/less fun, that's much harder to measure and really subjective. We try to get appropriate changes out as soon as the next standard build.

>

> I obviously don't know how GW2 code is structured since it's a closed source, but one thing you can consider is looking to implement an easy way to quickly disable certain traits while the team works on an actual fix. Something like adding a Boolean operation for WvW and PvP on each one. This way instead of working to "hotfix" you could instead "hotban" a problem trait in a manner of hours.

>

> This might seem extreme, but the reality is most of the game breaking builds often rely on a certain trait that is being exploited in a way the balance team didn't expect. For instance, a huge portion of the nonsense that has been going on in PvP could have been avoided if Sand Savant and Elusive mind ( Two traits that have been identified by much of the community as black-lotus level broken ) were both banned from PvP - instead of allowing them to run rampant and ruin the game mode for months on end.

 

They have done this in the past and as far as I can tell do this. They did it to grenade barrage when it was double hitting with a certain trait and everyone was abusing it and "oneshotting" even PVT people in WvW.

 

I'd personally love it if balance patches could be more frequent, putting up with something for 3 months does far more damage to the community than having to adjust every month. I have a feeling it would need some back end changes though, it seems like balance changes are not just change 1 value in a master file and it's sorted.

[apharma.3741]

> @"Irenio CalmonHuang.2048" said:

> > @"iGamerLegndi.7062" said:

> > Meanwhile waiting to finish legendary collection but Xera is gone :(

>

> After checking with the Raids and Fractals team - they've got a fix queued up for Xera that will go out tomorrow.

 

Thank you for the follow up posts and updates, we really appreciate it.